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2019-20 Performances


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MyOnlySolskjaer

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He is our new 'Gary Neville'.

Not the most naturally talented but use every ounce of his motivation, passion and energy to be the very best he can be and always make his presence felt..

Has a massive role in our squad in the years to come.
Yeah, I see a lot of Gary Neville in him too. More than what people are saying Williams has. He comes off great in interviews, difficult not to see him in a leadership role in the club - regardless of it being armband or not.
 

Rozay

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I have to say in this instance I disagree with this too. I don't think he's had any particularly bad games for us this season. And in particular, when he got injured I remember thinking that it was a really serious blow for us.
I mean, it’s all relative. There’s no point in me getting into a ridiculous ‘you hate this player’ debate - especially when anyone can simply go back over this very thread and literally read what was written by their fellow reds. Of course, you saying ‘particularly bad’ is a very subjective metric in itself, and could mean anything really. I don’t think he’s had any games where he’s looked like the worst player in the league or anything. He’s had a good season on the whole. But if you check the threadmarks and even just read the first page - you will see that he’s had his share of bad games.

Not that it even matters. I have no desire to get drawn into a ‘prove you don’t hate Scott’ argument today. I woke up to someone quoting a post from weeks back that said ‘I think he’s played better since his return than he was just before his injury’. I’m not going on trial for that, and not responding to stupidity like @Kostur post above claiming that such an observation is down to me being ‘certainpayerfc’. I’m not 10 years old. This place often turns into an echo chamber where some people develop a view and then whoever isn’t part of their consensus has an agenda. @cyberman , I’m his wisdom, concluded that my thinking Scott was in better form since his return than before it as some sort of evidence that I just don’t like a Manchester United player (for no valid reason), and in his words, I ’simply hate Scott’. This sort of shit lowers the tone of this place far more than people using the sort of language I would have ideally used in response. It’s childish beyond belief. ‘You simply hate Scott’. Ffs. Get a life.
 

cyberman

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I mean, it’s all relative. There’s no point in me getting into a ridiculous ‘you hate this player’ debate - especially when anyone can simply go back over this very thread and literally read what was written by their fellow reds. Of course, you saying ‘particularly bad’ is a very subjective metric in itself, and could mean anything really. I don’t think he’s had any games where he’s looked like the worst player in the league or anything. He’s had a good season on the whole. But if you check the threadmarks and even just read the first page - you will see that he’s had his share of bad games.

Not that it even matters. I have no desire to get drawn into a ‘prove you don’t hate Scott’ argument today. I woke up to someone quoting a post from weeks back that said ‘I think he’s played better since his return than he was just before his injury’. I’m not going on trial for that, and not responding to stupidity like @Kostur post above claiming that such an observation is down to me being ‘certainpayerfc’. I’m not 10 years old. This place often turns into an echo chamber where some people develop a view and then whoever isn’t part of their consensus has an agenda. @cyberman , I’m his wisdom, concluded that my thinking Scott was in better form since his return than before it as some sort of evidence that I just don’t like a Manchester United player (for no valid reason), and in his words, I ’simply hate Scott’. This sort of shit lowers the tone of this place far more than people using the sort of language I would have ideally used in response. It’s childish beyond belief. ‘You simply hate Scott’. Ffs. Get a life.
We have had this argument when he was playing well. You claimed his position signalled the falling standards of our youth system which you vowed to rally against. Utter pompus horsehit.

Today you said he wasnt playing well pre injury, look at the threadmarked posts etc but you posted this shocking pile of garbage on Jan 11

I don’t agree that he’s been our best performing player. At all.

What he has done, is performed to the best of his abilities. He has performed very well by HIS standards. But not by THE standard.
What a shitshow of a back handed compliment that is. But you admit he was playing well. Just added in he still wasnt good enough.
You just automatically rallied against praise of Scott today and went on auto plot simply because you dislike the player.
Its ok to have bias, its pretending you dont have any thats the problem
 

andersj

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Yes, @cyberman's tone lowers the tone of this place. Wish @cyberman had such 'wisdom' instead:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/scott-mctominay-2018-19-performances.440088/post-22838245

I presume it's still Jose protecting Scott though.
Sometimes people argue for something in a manner making it impossible for them to change their mind. It appears hard for someone who considered McT the same level as Pearson and Tunnicliff to give him credit.
 

Rozay

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We have had this argument when he was playing well. You claimed his position signalled the falling standards of our youth system which you vowed to rally against. Utter pompus horsehit.

Today you said he wasnt playing well pre injury, look at the threadmarked posts etc but you posted this shocking pile of garbage on Jan 11



What a shitshow of a back handed compliment that is. But you admit he was playing well. Just added in he still wasnt good enough.
You just automatically rallied against praise of Scott today and went on auto plot simply because you dislike the player.
Its ok to have bias, its pretending you dont have any thats the problem
Actually, I didn’t say anything today. You woke up today and quoted something I said weeks back. You quoting old posts means nothing, just underlines your supposed superiority complex you feel you have over me. Is that supposed to be some sort of ‘evidence’? A post from 11 January where I said that I disagree that McTominay has been our best player? Why, because you believe he has?

Saying he’s playing better now than he was then isn’t backhanded. I can’t continue this conversation without ‘insulting the poster’ so again, please go and argue with your dog or something.
 

Brightonian

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I mean, it’s all relative. There’s no point in me getting into a ridiculous ‘you hate this player’ debate - especially when anyone can simply go back over this very thread and literally read what was written by their fellow reds. Of course, you saying ‘particularly bad’ is a very subjective metric in itself, and could mean anything really. I don’t think he’s had any games where he’s looked like the worst player in the league or anything. He’s had a good season on the whole. But if you check the threadmarks and even just read the first page - you will see that he’s had his share of bad games.
Have no fear, I've got no interest in that sort of nonsense either.

Agreed, it's very hard to argue the nuances of how good or how bad a player was anyway. I think we disagree on where Scott's performances from that time lie on that continuum but that's natural, watching football is subjective.

I will say that I would never look at a player performance or match-day thread to remind myself how good a player was in a given game. This place is a total hive mind, particularly over a short space of time, and I've seen almost as many nonsense opinions become entrenched here as sensible ones. In particular, no player - even one who is actually performing well - escapes the temporary ire of the caf when the team plays badly, especially when the team drops points. If we lose, 'they were all shit' generally seems to be the shared mood. There's a reason why no player's 'rating' ever seems to end much above 6 for the season - the toys get thrown out of the pram when we lose and everyone gets 3s!

The only way to reconsider would be to go back and rewatch those games in full. And to be fair, I'm so football-deprived I'm probably not far from just going back and rewatching our entire season from scratch. I'll let you know what I think if I descend that far into madness!
 

Rozay

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Have no fear, I've got no interest in that sort of nonsense either.

Agreed, it's very hard to argue the nuances of how good or how bad a player was anyway. I think we disagree on where Scott's performances from that time lie on that continuum but that's natural, watching football is subjective.

I will say that I would never look at a player performance or match-day thread to remind myself how good a player was in a given game. This place is a total hive mind, particularly over a short space of time, and I've seen almost as many nonsense opinions become entrenched here as sensible ones. In particular, no player - even one who is actually performing well - escapes the temporary ire of the caf when the team plays badly, especially when the team drops points. If we lose, 'they were all shit' generally seems to be the shared mood. There's a reason why no player's 'rating' ever seems to end much above 6 for the season - the toys get thrown out of the pram when we lose and everyone gets 3s!

The only way to reconsider would be to go back and rewatch those games in full. And to be fair, I'm so football-deprived I'm probably not far from just going back and rewatching our entire season from scratch. I'll let you know what I think if I descend that far into madness!
I must say that re-watching a football match is something I rarely ever do. Same with films tbh. Some of my favourite ever films I’ve only seen once because I know I can never recreate that moment.

With regards to performance threads, I certainly think they are a decent indication, certainly over the match day thread, which I agree is very reactive. With regards to Scott in particular, I’ve seen a number of post match assessments, in games of varying results, where the comments were along the lines of ‘not a good game from him’, ‘needs a break’ etc. I often don’t even contribute to such conversation, I just see it. So when later on, I see ‘he’s been brilliant in every game’, I don’t even just want to say I disagree, as the response will be ‘but you hate Scott’ or whatever. I think to support my view it’s fair to look back at say ‘United vs Bournemouth’ or ‘United vs Watford’ or whatever and see that other ‘non-hating’ posters were all in agreement.

Of course, football is largely subjective as you say though, and I think the descending into ‘you hate player x’ is amongst the lowest form of footy debate. Especially when said player plays for your team!

For me personally, I’ve liked what I’ve seen from Scott since he returned a bit more than the form he was in just before his injury. So long as we are not being personal (and I’ve never thrown anything personal at Scott unlike the stuff Pogba and Lingard receive on here daily), then a reasoned footy debate shouldn’t be too much to ask from a footy forum.

Anyway, always a pleasure exchanging words with you.
 

Web of Bissaka

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To be fair, his role changed between those two periods.

Before the injury, he was more box-to-box and had a greater responsibility to create. On an individual level, it made him look dominant on the pitch but he also obviously fell short in a couple of areas that weren't to his strengths. Overall, he was more involved but made more mistakes.

After the injury, he was mostly there to give Bruno a platform. It meant that he had to rein in his game a little and keep things simple. Overall, he was less involved involved but made fewer mistakes.

I guess it just depends on what you prefer. As long as the team plays better as a whole, I don't mind if he carries on playing like he did after the injury. It'll mean he gets fewer plaudits from the fans, but the manager and his teammates will always know how important he is.
Yeah, that's a reasonable explanation.

Also adding to Bruno's, would be Fred's growing performances in b2b role, so sensibly it means McT to do a more simpler, less adventerous and holding roles, though he still joined in attacks and scored. Agree it's all about team balance.
 

Rozay

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Yeah, that's a reasonable explanation.

Also adding to Bruno's, would be Fred's growing performances in b2b role, so sensibly it means McT to do a more simpler, less adventerous and holding roles, though he still joined in attacks and scored. Agree it's all about team balance.
The arrival of Bruno hasn’t changed anything for Scott really I don’t think. We always played with an AM, and it was never Scott McTominay - even if it were just Lingard and Pereira. The bigger issue for Scott has been the form of Matic. Where previously, the base behind our AM was Scott and Fred, more recently, Matic and Fred have been in the undroppable bracket, and have been paired together more. That said, in the games Scott has played, I think it’s been business as usual for him.
 

IRELANDUNITED

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Look at Scott's Instagram story from a couple of hours ago. 5.03k in 16 minutes. My man :)
 

Web of Bissaka

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The arrival of Bruno hasn’t changed anything for Scott really I don’t think. We always played with an AM, and it was never Scott McTominay - even if it were just Lingard and Pereira. The bigger issue for Scott has been the form of Matic. Where previously, the base behind our AM was Scott and Fred, more recently, Matic and Fred have been in the undroppable bracket, and have been paired together more. That said, in the games Scott has played, I think it’s been business as usual for him.
Bruno at AM compare to Lingard/AP there -- Bruno is the one that take charge and dictating making the plays actively whereas the latter two struggled to do so and usually more passive. And Fred earlier seasons are playing a more safer and passive football at deeper position. This is the time where McT took charge and make more risky plays to dictate things, which he got criticized.

Now, with Bruno and Fred's improved form making all the dictating riskier active plays, the 3rd midfielder whether it's Matic or McT had to balance it up by playing a more simpler and safer passive roles, yet their timings in joining attacks are spot-on which is just nice.

Seems we see things differently, it's okay, no problems.
 
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Zoo

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Very lucky to be starting ahead of Matic and not coming off instead of Fred. He’s young and homegrown but that shouldn’t count.
 

Based Adnan

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Very lucky to be starting ahead of Matic and not coming off instead of Fred. He’s young and homegrown but that shouldn’t count.
He wasn't great but he was still better than Fred in the first half
 

Skills

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He really had no right to be starting considering the players we're leaving on the bench for him. But then again, he doesn't select himself.
 

Yagami

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I was really impressed with him today. When I saw Pogba warming up I was worried he'd be the one to make way so I was relieved to be wrong.
 

Rajma

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Should be used as a sub and in specific games only, needs to be upgraded as we can't rely on Matic for another year.
 

Red4Life_#7

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He was one of our best players tonight. Only Pogba, Bruno and Spiderman were better tonight.
 

Untd55

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Dreadful performance. People must have poor eyesight if they thought he was good. He gave away the ball so many times. He was outmuscled, out dribbled. Did nothing when he had the ball. You could have had almost anyone in there and you wouldn't notice a difference.
 

GenZRed

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He played shi*e today. No doubt about it. He is a good player but had a bad game.
 

edcunited1878

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Not good enough to be given that license to roam forward. If United want to go nuclear with Bruno, Pogba, and Greenwood on the pitch, it's a midfield diamond anchored by Matic or 3 at the back.

Sorry, but he has no right to start over Matic or Fred because he has the worst passing and ball composure.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Think we all need to log out for the night. We've not played for 3 months. Spurs away wasn't the game we needed after a. Long break. We started sloppy and got better. A point isn't a disaster as long as we now go on a run of wins.
 

Robbie Boy

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Some OTT criticism in here. He's been very good this season and had some great games prior to the COVID-19 break. I agree that he shouldn't be an automatic first choice but he's a good player and he's still improving.
 

roonster09

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He started well and then once Spurs scored he made many mistakes. Tbh Matic made good impact on the game, so might start next game.
 

OneUnited24

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I must have been watching another game. I thought he was doing pretty well. Usually Fred and him have a good understanding but today they didnt help each other.
 

Andersons Dietician

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He was sloppy and poor today and was just getting dragged out of position. His general positioning is terrible and he let Lamela run off him loads today. he did somewhat improve for about 10mmins in the 2nd half but by his standards I thought he was quite poor.
 

Adisa

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Don't know what game others were watching. Gave the ball away time after time.
 

OleBoiii

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I thought he did quite well. One of our best players today. Definitely top 3.

Having said that, his main issue has always been passing and today was no different.
 

AltiUn

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Bit rusty but I do think he was okay, I think you could’ve taken either him or Fred off, there was little difference in their performance. I understand why he may have been kept on instead of Fred because he is a bit defensively better.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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The reason why this thread is so polarising is that in spells McTomminay played well tonight, particularly in the first 25 of both halves but he was absolutely dreadful after the Spurs `goal. Just kept on giving the ball away which meant we couldn't get any foothold for our attackers to build upon. I think in hindsight Matic should have played in there as he's just far more composed on the ball and is far less likely to turn over possession. Still some positive moments overall and he will certainly have his role to play in our season finish.
 

Litch

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I get a sense that him and Fred are going to be squad players going forward. It's a shame as it's those two players performances which have been the foundation for turning our season around. Seems like some people have forgotten how good they were.....and how poor Matic has been for some time except a few games
 

SambaBoy

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Thought it was a decent performance. Wasn't awful as some claimed in here.
 

Devil may care

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I felt him and Fred were about the same today, plentgy of graft and energy, not a lot on the ball.