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roonster09

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Ture, we should be fine as long as we're not elevating him to anything higher than what we should (like we did for countless others before him). Problem is the club is starting to have history doing that, so I hope they actually have your way of thinking behind the scenes.

And no I didn't think Mane would be a key player for a title winning Liverpool, but I did think he'd end up being very good if he developed well. But then again, Klopp has squeezed out that extra 10% which accounts for the over-performance IMO.
Yeah, we should have reality check and sign better players for first team, if academy players shows so much promise then should be promoted. McTominay shouldn't be first choice at least for now, saying that he has done really well this season. Hopefully he will continue with the same trajectory.
 

711

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We don't have to expect that kind of imporvement, gradual improvement to hold his squad position will do. Anything more than that is a bonus. McTominay don't have to follow the rule either, he is sort of late bloomer considering he wasn't very highly rated at reserves level but did very well for first time with respect to expectations.

So did you think Mane was capable of hitting these heights when he was at Southampton? If so fair enough, you must be one of very few.
I'll add that he's a big lad for his position, and I suspect the bigger ones do take longer to peak, they don't have the natural agility of little uns.

Can't agree on Mane though, he looked brilliant at Southampton, he's not surprised me since at all.
 

roonster09

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Kante signed for Leicester when he was 24 and was probably the best midfielder in the Premier League that season. McTominay has half a year on him, which is not much. At Caen, when he was 23, Kante recovered the ball more times than any other player in Europe the season before joining Leicester. I didn't watch him at Caen, but that shows he had something that stood out about him. Especially since that continued at Leicester and Chelsea.

I wouldn't say it is about fulfilling potential, but the ability to show that you have a high potential in the first place. I do not see that potential with McTominay at all. Players that improve to a great level have usually shown they always had that level of ability.

Salah, I'm not sure what he was like, but I am guessing he must have shown something very promising for Chelsea to have signed him. He was 21 then. He was 23 in the season at Roma before he joined Liverpool. 15 goals and 11 assists.

You have to ask yourself, based on displays, who would sign McTominay if he was available? I can't see any top team being interested in him; he had just not shown anything that would make you think he will be a great player. I think it a pretty solid basis that by 23, you can see their potential and they would have started to fulfil it by that time.
So now 24 is the cut off point? 23 or 24 is not the point, not all players have same career trajectory. Just because some player shows exceptional skills at young age doesn't mean they will be hitting bigger heights.

I don't see McTominay as some sort of superstar player like Pogba, Bruno. I see him as a water carrier who will rotate between first choice and squad player role.

Also it doesn't matter which team will be interested to sign him, not long back people were saying same thing about Rashford, how he won't be starter at any club, even at clubs like Bournemouth.
 

roonster09

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I'll add that he's a big lad for his position, and I suspect the bigger ones do take longer to peak, they don't have the natural agility of little uns.

Can't agree on Mane though, he looked brilliant at Southampton, he's not surprised me since at all.
I wanted us to sign Mane from Southampton but I never thought he would be this good, same with Salah too.

On McTominay, he wasn't this good just a season ago, the improvement in his performance gives at least a hope that he can improve even more. He looks sort of late bloomer sort of player.
 

hellhunter

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He's playing in his second real season. Maybe that's a better metric to judge his development that just his age.

His rather late debut would suggest hes a bit of a late bloomer, but in my opinion hes made quite some progress since taking his first steps in the first team.
 

Untd55

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So now 24 is the cut off point? 23 or 24 is not the point, not all players have same career trajectory. Just because some player shows exceptional skills at young age doesn't mean they will be hitting bigger heights.

I don't see McTominay as some sort of superstar player like Pogba, Bruno. I see him as a water carrier who will rotate between first choice and squad player role.

Also it doesn't matter which team will be interested to sign him, not long back people were saying same thing about Rashford, how he won't be starter at any club, even at clubs like Bournemouth.
Not really, but a lot of the best do start imposing themselves by the the age of 23/24, having shown their talent levels earlier. All the players below had already shown they were far better than McTominay and started fulfilling their potential before 23.

Keane
Totti
Iniesta
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Xavi
Alonso
Essien

I will leave it there as I could do this all day. It is pretty rare that a player will ever become anything great if they don't start doing it at this age. McTominay has a hell of a long way to go to get anywhere close. I don't think he has ever shown he can do it; he just doesn't have the talent. What has he show that he is so great at?

Passing - Average, or possibly below
Heading - Alright, but nothing special. Hasn't scored a header, so not particularly dominant in the opposition box.
Defending - Average
Attacking - Average
Shot power - Good
Stamina - Good
Hardwork - Good
Strength - Good
Dribbling - Average

Honestly, there are loads of players like that in the Premier League. Those that turn out to be something, you can pinpoint at least one thing they are really good at. There is nothing with McTominay but physical aspects.
 
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roonster09

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Not really, but a lot of the best do start imposing themselves by the the age of 23/24, having shown their talent levels earlier. All the players below had already shown they were far better than McTominay and started fulfilling their potential before 23.

Keane
Totti
Iniesta
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Xavi
Alonso
Essien

I will leave it there as I could do this all day. It is pretty rare that a player will ever become anything great if they don't start doing it at this age. McTominay has a hell of a long way to go to get anywhere close. I don't think he has ever shown he can do it.
So many players (some of the best ever players) imposed themselves by McTominay's age, well done for stating the obvious.
 

edcunited1878

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He'd do well to continue to become a key squad member. His passing, technique, and vision in the final third and to break lines are the worst among the senior central midfielders from Pogba, Bruno, Matic, and Fred...and there's a significant gap. He's like the midfield version of Jesse Lingard - at their best, they'll have a purple patch and be a consistent player in the side, but usually they'll be domestic cup players looking to make a difference need to be selected for specific roles in specific league matches surrounded by better players so his strengths cover up other's weaknesses.

He has the proper attitude and mentality and should be allowed to continue to develop and play a trusted role within the squad.
 

Augustus Gloop

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Not really, but a lot of the best do start imposing themselves by the the age of 23/24, having shown their talent levels earlier. All the players below had already shown they were far better than McTominay and started fulfilling their potential before 23.

Keane
Totti
Iniesta
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Xavi
Alonso
Essien
I mean, all you’ve done there is name some of the most influential midfielders of the past few decades and berate Scott for not being on the same trajectory.

Why can’t he carve out his own identity instead of him having to be this good or that good at the age of 23? Fact is, is that he is progressed significantly in the past 18 months and at the very least is a good squad option. You don’t have to have sleepless nights that he’ll be the lynchpin in our midfield... he’s currently got Fred and Matić to get past and I’m sure there will be plenty more competition. If he does end up being first choice don’t you think he would have earned it? He doesn’t pick himself.
 

tjb

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Not really, but a lot of the best do start imposing themselves by the the age of 23/24, having shown their talent levels earlier. All the players below had already shown they were far better than McTominay and started fulfilling their potential before 23.

Keane
Totti
Iniesta
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Xavi
Alonso
Essien

I will leave it there as I could do this all day. It is pretty rare that a player will ever become anything great if they don't start doing it at this age. McTominay has a hell of a long way to go to get anywhere close. I don't think he has ever shown he can do it; he just doesn't have the talent. What has he show that he is so great at?

Passing - Average, or possibly below
Heading - Alright, but nothing special. Hasn't scored a header, so not particularly dominant in the opposition box.
Defending - Average
Attacking - Average
Shot power - Good
Stamina - Good
Hardwork - Good
Strength - Good
Dribbling - Average

Honestly, there are loads of players like that in the Premier League. Those that turn out to be something, you can pinpoint at least one thing they are really good at. There is nothing with McTominay but physical aspects.
You know there are different roles for players right? People tend to overlook athletic players who are and need to improve technically, yet suggest that technical players can become easily become athletic. If you have watched Mctominay, you would have noticed his passing is improving and for the role he eventually will play for us ( DM/Anchor) he is progressing really well. His one on one defending is rather good and he is really good at marking people out of a game in a similar way to Herrera. He is actually a good dribbler on the ball, he doesn't do it enough, but I can see him making momentary bursts like Vieira when he gets really confident. His strength and balance make him really good at holding on to the ball, even though is first touch needs work. If he can work on that, then it would make him hard to get the ball from in a similar way to Kovacic. Saying his heading is nothing special, is failing to recognize how effective having him in the side is to us winning aerial duels in midfield. With him in the team, we are top of the league in that respect. His attacking is average, but given his role, I'm not so sure he needs to be thaat creative. His stamina is a massive attribute and given his physical presence, would allow us to dominate games for long periods.

McTominay's only true weakness relative to his role/future role is his defensive positioning. When he is near an opposition player, he can easily win the battle between them and he does have the awareness to initiate those battles, but his positioning on the counter is suspect at the moment for a defensive midfielder. The reason I am not so worried about this is that he has played as a box to box consistently as opposed to a strict DM position, thus it will take him time to adjust.
 

Untd55

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So many players (some of the best ever players) imposed themselves by McTominay's age, well done for stating the obvious.
Still don't think you get the point: players with a high amount of talent would have shown it already. That is it. And, to be honest, that is evidence of the truth. They aren't just players who magically became good at what they do, they had the talent from a young age. McTominay lacks that. He may be alright as a squad option, but can anyone seriously say he has shown enough to be a first-team player in a team that wants to challenge for titles?

I mean, of course, they are brilliant midfielders because that is what top teams need to win competitions. McTominay is not that. Look at the midfield players of some of the best teams; McTominay is not even close to any of them.

I mean, all you’ve done there is name some of the most influential midfielders of the past few decades and berate Scott for not being on the same trajectory.

Why can’t he carve out his own identity instead of him having to be this good or that good at the age of 23? Fact is, is that he is progressed significantly in the past 18 months and at the very least is a good squad option. You don’t have to have sleepless nights that he’ll be the lynchpin in our midfield... he’s currently got Fred and Matić to get past and I’m sure there will be plenty more competition. If he does end up being first choice don’t you think he would have earned it? He doesn’t pick himself.
No, as I said that was a small sample (there are way too many to list). What it shows is that the vast majority of players who end up good enough for top teams would have shown a level of talent equal to it at 23. I'm talking about first-team here; is he really good enough?

I don't think a team that aims to challenge for the Premier League and Champion's League can afford a player who is so average at passing. He may improve a bit at passing, but you have to be realistic that it will be limited at that age. He will never reach a good enough level to be considered for the first team in regard to passing.

You mention defending, but he is not that good; I still think there are a lot of players in the Premier League who can do the same job. I mean he isn't Cambiasso or Gattusso, is he? If McTominay cannot pass then he better be an absolutely incredible defensively to make up for it. Really, he is not.

This isn't really about whether he deserves, but the reality that he will never be good enough for the first team. I think there will be plenty of options coming along for defensive midfield that would easily displace him from the team. After right-wing, it is easily our weakest position.



Just to show what I mean
Pirlo, Kaka, Gattuso
Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets
Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Scholes, Keane
Sneijder, Cambiasso, Motta
De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho

Pogba, Fernandes, McTominay - Who looks the odd one out here? Fernandes and Poga look like players who could fit into a top team, but can anyone say that McTominay could, judging by what he has shown?
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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You know there are different roles for players right? People tend to overlook athletic players who are and need to improve technically, yet suggest that technical players can become easily become athletic. If you have watched Mctominay, you would have noticed his passing is improving and for the role he eventually will play for us ( DM/Anchor) he is progressing really well. His one on one defending is rather good and he is really good at marking people out of a game in a similar way to Herrera. He is actually a good dribbler on the ball, he doesn't do it enough, but I can see him making momentary bursts like Vieira when he gets really confident. His strength and balance make him really good at holding on to the ball, even though is first touch needs work. If he can work on that, then it would make him hard to get the ball from in a similar way to Kovacic. Saying his heading is nothing special, is failing to recognize how effective having him in the side is to us winning aerial duels in midfield. With him in the team, we are top of the league in that respect. His attacking is average, but given his role, I'm not so sure he needs to be thaat creative. His stamina is a massive attribute and given his physical presence, would allow us to dominate games for long periods.

McTominay's only true weakness relative to his role/future role is his defensive positioning. When he is near an opposition player, he can easily win the battle between them and he does have the awareness to initiate those battles, but his positioning on the counter is suspect at the moment for a defensive midfielder. The reason I am not so worried about this is that he has played as a box to box consistently as opposed to a strict DM position, thus it will take him time to adjust.
Why do you think Mctomimay will play DM
 

tjb

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Why do you think Mctomimay will play DM
If he's going to pay with United with Bruno and Pogba, he will have to be the most defensive partner. It's also clear from the way Ole has started using him, that he wants him in this role.
 

Rozay

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We don't have to expect that kind of imporvement, gradual improvement to hold his squad position will do. Anything more than that is a bonus. McTominay don't have to follow the rule either, he is sort of late bloomer considering he wasn't very highly rated at reserves level but did very well for first time with respect to expectations.

So did you think Mane was capable of hitting these heights when he was at Southampton? If so fair enough, you must be one of very few.
While you can never say for certain what a player would become, Mané becoming what he is wasn’t that shocking. He was the best player at Salzburg and the whole of Austria, same at Southampton, got the fastest ever PL hat-trick. That United and Liverpool were both after him says enough. That's always a question we ask of out players - if he were at club x would we want to sign him? Well Mané was at that sort of club, and he had two big clubs after him, Liverpool paying £34m to get him at the time too, when their record was £35m for Caroll.

He was always meant to be very good.
 

PeelthePain

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Not really, but a lot of the best do start imposing themselves by the the age of 23/24, having shown their talent levels earlier. All the players below had already shown they were far better than McTominay and started fulfilling their potential before 23.

Keane
Totti
Iniesta
Gerrard
Lampard
Scholes
Xavi
Alonso
Essien

I will leave it there as I could do this all day. It is pretty rare that a player will ever become anything great if they don't start doing it at this age. McTominay has a hell of a long way to go to get anywhere close. I don't think he has ever shown he can do it; he just doesn't have the talent. What has he show that he is so great at?

Passing - Average, or possibly below
Heading - Alright, but nothing special. Hasn't scored a header, so not particularly dominant in the opposition box.
Defending - Average
Attacking - Average
Shot power - Good
Stamina - Good
Hardwork - Good
Strength - Good
Dribbling - Average

Honestly, there are loads of players like that in the Premier League. Those that turn out to be something, you can pinpoint at least one thing they are really good at. There is nothing with McTominay but physical aspects.
Kante was 23 when his team promoted from Ligue 2 France. At 24 he signed for Leicester and no one expected him to dominate like he did in 15/16. He developed extremely fast.

Jordan Henderson is quite comparable to Scott in terms of technical skills. He wasn't considered the second coming of Gerrard. Mediocre midfielder with mediocre skills. No bigger club wanted him. Now he's a main cog in the Liverpool team.

Skills you mentioned are just a fraction of what a footballer brings to the table. What you are overlooking is the "Roy Keane" factor. Keane's best attributes was his tenaciousness, determination and captain-esque qualities: driving his team and team mates for a win. This is what Scott is great at.

Scott will never send chipped balls like Pirlo or dribble like Pogba, but he has the potential to drive like Keane or dominate like Gattuso. He probably will never reach the heights of the players I mentioned but he sure can be our Jordan Henderson. Although I expect much higher.
 

roonster09

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While you can never say for certain what a player would become, Mané becoming what he is wasn’t that shocking. He was the best player at Salzburg and the whole of Austria, same at Southampton, got the fastest ever PL hat-trick. That United and Liverpool were both after him says enough. That's always a question we ask of out players - if he were at club x would we want to sign him? Well Mané was at that sort of club, and he had two big clubs after him, Liverpool paying £34m to get him at the time too, when their record was £35m for Caroll.

He was always meant to be very good.
I wanted us to sign Mane from Southampton but I never thought he would be this good, same with Salah too.
I knew he was good player, I never thought he will be this good.
 

roonster09

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Still don't think you get the point: players with a high amount of talent would have shown it already. That is it. And, to be honest, that is evidence of the truth. They aren't just players who magically became good at what they do, they had the talent from a young age. McTominay lacks that. He may be alright as a squad option, but can anyone seriously say he has shown enough to be a first-team player in a team that wants to challenge for titles?

I mean, of course, they are brilliant midfielders because that is what top teams need to win competitions. McTominay is not that. Look at the midfield players of some of the best teams; McTominay is not even close to any of them.
So McT isn't good enough like some of the greatest midfielders? Well if that's your point then I don't think anyone disagrees.

If your point is players won't improve after 22-23 then there are plenty of examples. It's not as if Mctominay didn't show any promise, he is playing well this season and last season second half. I don't think anyone is expecting Mctominay to reach the level those players reached or anywhere close to that.

I don't think Cleverley, Welbeck were good enough to win titles either but we won with both of them playing many games. Football is a squad game and you need players with different strengths.

If you or anyone told me you always believed Jordan Henderson was good enough to win PL and CL titles, I would say you are lying but here we are, player like him are domination PL and CL. People always forget football is a team game. Now I'm not saying Mctominay will surely good enough, just that it's about time people stop writing off young/youngish players and yes Mctominay is also young considering this is his second proper season.

Not long ago we had thread discussing how to burst Rashford's bubble and how he won't start for any PL team, just a year forward he was among the best players in the league and very high in goal scoring charts.
 

Beachryan

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Surely he's kind of like Henderson? Not the most gifted, but has a good engine, discipline and attitude. That'll get you pretty far if you're not the creative force in a team.
 

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Surely he's kind of like Henderson? Not the most gifted, but has a good engine, discipline and attitude. That'll get you pretty far if you're not the creative force in a team.
I don’t think either he nor Henderson are the most positionally disciplined, but I agree on the rest. The two probably compete with each other, in that I imagine their enthusiasm and attitude for the game is what leads them to follow the ball around a lot and try to influence it, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you want them to sit somewhere, it curbs their natural enthusiam and instinct I think.
 
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#07

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I like McTominay but today showed why we need to buy in midfield.

Scott is a hard working box to box midfielder. He, like Fred, is effective when we need to chase and hassle in midfield.

He is not a defensive midfielder that sniffs danger and knows where to be or where to drop in to help the backline. You see him go raring off, tearing after players, leaving gaps. Sergi Busquets he is not.

Maybe under Carrick's guidance he can improve? If we burn Matic out I worry though.
 

red woppit

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I like McTominay but today showed why we need to buy in midfield.

Scott is a hard working box to box midfielder. He, like Fred, is effective when we need to chase and hassle in midfield.

He is not a defensive midfielder that sniffs danger and knows where to be or where to drop in to help the backline. You see him go raring off, tearing after players, leaving gaps. Sergi Busquets he is not.

Maybe under Carrick's guidance he can improve? If we burn Matic out I worry though.
He seemed to play a little deeper today, not sure if that was by instruction, but he definitely is a box to box player. I just wonder if the coaching staff see him as the man to replace Matic ultimately, he has the physical attributes, but as #07 states, he needs to learn to sniff out danger before it happens. I think McTominay will became a very valuable squad member for many years, wherever he plays.
 

Kag

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At best, he’s a fifth choice midfielder who helps out the squad. He’s never any more than that.

Not being bad isn’t enough. You’ve got to be great. You’ve got to do things like Pogba and Bruno if you want to play in midfield for a club like United.
 
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At best, he’s a fifth choice midfielder who helps out the squad. He’s never any more than that.

Not being bad isn’t enough. You’ve got to be great. You’ve got to do things like Pogba and Bruno if you want to play in midfield for a club like United.
I agree, we need to stop this crazy talk of him replacing Matic.
 

limerickcitykid

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He’s a big game player. Play him when we are sitting deep and looking to be solid defensively. Games like today he is just useless though, nowhere good enough on the ball. There is no point have a midfield of passengers like McTominay and even Fred. I’d honestly sell Fred, you don’t need two players filling the same role when it’s not needed that often. They can’t play 6 and aren’t good enough to be the 8 in over half the games. Just keep McTominay to fill that role.

He’ll never be a DM like Matic or Carrick. He doesn’t have the composure, the passing between the lines, the awareness, the positioning, simply he doesn’t have anything required for the role. He’s a hard working defensive 8 and that’s it.
 

roseguy64

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He’s a big game player. Play him when we are sitting deep and looking to be solid defensively. Games like today he is just useless though, nowhere good enough on the ball. There is no point have a midfield of passengers like McTominay and even Fred. I’d honestly sell Fred, you don’t need two players filling the same role when it’s not needed that often. They can’t play 6 and aren’t good enough to be the 8 in over half the games. Just keep McTominay to fill that role.

He’ll never be a DM like Matic or Carrick. He doesn’t have the composure, the passing between the lines, the awareness, the positioning, simply he doesn’t have anything required for the role. He’s a hard working defensive 8 and that’s it.
He played DM under Mourinho though and did it well.
 

limerickcitykid

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He played DM under Mourinho though and did it well.
He didn’t though. He played next to Matic in a defensive side that played terrible football. So like I said he is a big game player when you want to play like that but there is no reason to be doing it against over half the league.

He also barely even played 1000 minutes in the league under Mourinho.
 

red woppit

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He’s a big game player. Play him when we are sitting deep and looking to be solid defensively. Games like today he is just useless though, nowhere good enough on the ball. There is no point have a midfield of passengers like McTominay and even Fred. I’d honestly sell Fred, you don’t need two players filling the same role when it’s not needed that often. They can’t play 6 and aren’t good enough to be the 8 in over half the games. Just keep McTominay to fill that role.

He’ll never be a DM like Matic or Carrick. He doesn’t have the composure, the passing between the lines, the awareness, the positioning, simply he doesn’t have anything required for the role. He’s a hard working defensive 8 and that’s it.
A little disrespectful to call them passengers I think, they played well as a pair prior to lockdown, although today they weren't great, but the whole team didn't play well, and with really only Ighalo up front their forward passes were limited. None of us know how a player will develop, so to say he'll never be a DM is quite a statement, that no one can dispute, as we don't know the future. Still, this forum is all about opinions, and though I don't agree with yours sometimes, I respect your right to post your thoughts.
 

RooneyLegend

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I'll reiterate my stance, not good enough and never will be. Would find it hard to be first choice at Palace yet people think he's the future of the club, madness.
 

el3mel

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Hasn't been really as good as he was previously ever since the league resumed. Hope he finds up his form soon. On form he's a great player to have.
 

limerickcitykid

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A little disrespectful to call them passengers I think, they played well as a pair prior to lockdown, although today they weren't great, but the whole team didn't play well, and with really only Ighalo up front their forward passes were limited. None of us know how a player will develop, so to say he'll never be a DM is quite a statement, that no one can dispute, as we don't know the future. Still, this forum is all about opinions, and though I don't agree with yours sometimes, I respect your right to post your thoughts.
It isn’t disrespectful, it is what it is. If you’re relying on McTominay and Fred to create then the chances simply aren’t coming. You say they played well but we were consistently criticized for playing shit football and always “the whole team didn’t play well.” The whole team wasn’t playing well because we’ve got two midfielder incapable of creating or controlling a match. Until Matic came back we were sitting 8th. That isn’t doing well. Our best spell has coincided with Matic returning and Bruno coming in to cover the entire burden of creating by himself, which isn’t sustainable.

Their forward passes are always limited. It’s always excuses. They’re limited because their ability is limited.

Sure we don’t know how they’ll develop but how often do you see 23 year olds completely change role and develop an entirely new skill set? Virtually never I’d say.

It’s no surprise all his good performances are against top teams. There is no need for a defensive 8 to do a job against Norwich and he and the team massively suffers because of it.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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He’s a big game player. Play him when we are sitting deep and looking to be solid defensively. Games like today he is just useless though, nowhere good enough on the ball. There is no point have a midfield of passengers like McTominay and even Fred. I’d honestly sell Fred, you don’t need two players filling the same role when it’s not needed that often. They can’t play 6 and aren’t good enough to be the 8 in over half the games. Just keep McTominay to fill that role.

He’ll never be a DM like Matic or Carrick. He doesn’t have the composure, the passing between the lines, the awareness, the positioning, simply he doesn’t have anything required for the role. He’s a hard working defensive 8 and that’s it.
I agree with you. Both Mctominay and Fred are 8s but not good enough on the ball for what is required to break down a low block like today. I don't agree that we should sell Fred though. He's a better 8 than Mctominay
 

red woppit

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I'll reiterate my stance, not good enough and never will be. Would find it hard to be first choice at Palace yet people think he's the future of the club, madness.
And I reiterate my stance that he will be a valuable member of the squad for the next few years. One of us will be proved right.
 

Baneofthegame

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He needs to take less touches and move the ball quicker, having him, Fred, Lingard and Mata in the same starting XI is absolutely unacceptable.
 

izec

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Kante signed for Leicester when he was 24 and was probably the best midfielder in the Premier League that season. McTominay has half a year on him, which is not much. At Caen, when he was 23, Kante recovered the ball more times than any other player in Europe the season before joining Leicester. I didn't watch him at Caen, but that shows he had something that stood out about him. Especially since that continued at Leicester and Chelsea.

I wouldn't say it is about fulfilling potential, but the ability to show that you have a high potential in the first place. I do not see that potential with McTominay at all. Players that improve to a great level have usually shown they always had that level of ability.

Salah, I'm not sure what he was like, but I am guessing he must have shown something very promising for Chelsea to have signed him. He was 21 then. He was 23 in the season at Roma before he joined Liverpool. 15 goals and 11 assists.

You have to ask yourself, based on displays, who would sign McTominay if he was available? I can't see any top team being interested in him; he had just not shown anything that would make you think he will be a great player. I think it a pretty solid basis that by 23, you can see their potential and they would have started to fulfil it by that time.
I agree. People love to make up excuses for players. Half of the squad is easily upgradeable or not needed, due to having the same level of players in the squad already
 

Raven

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Still very young. He's got the right people around him to improve his game. I know he'll be part of this squad for a long time but I'm not sure in what capacity.
 

DWelbz19

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He’s a big game player. Play him when we are sitting deep and looking to be solid defensively. Games like today he is just useless though, nowhere good enough on the ball. There is no point have a midfield of passengers like McTominay and even Fred. I’d honestly sell Fred, you don’t need two players filling the same role when it’s not needed that often. They can’t play 6 and aren’t good enough to be the 8 in over half the games. Just keep McTominay to fill that role.

He’ll never be a DM like Matic or Carrick. He doesn’t have the composure, the passing between the lines, the awareness, the positioning, simply he doesn’t have anything required for the role. He’s a hard working defensive 8 and that’s it.
I agree. He’s very composed under pressure in midfield in terms of getting it and giving it quickly and he has bundles of stamina, but he’s not disciplined, nor is he an insightful passer. Those traits are best when we’re clearly the inferior team (e.g. PSG away). That’s realistically when McTominay offers his most to the team.

I also agree that him and Fred basically fill the same space in the side.
 

limerickcitykid

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I agree with you. Both Mctominay and Fred are 8s but not good enough on the ball for what is required to break down a low block like today. I don't agree that we should sell Fred though. He's a better 8 than Mctominay
You’re probably right Fred is I’d say a bit better. A bit more quality but I’d say also a little more erratic and inconsistent.

The point more is though we don’t need both of them. The only reason I’d sell Fred is because McTominay is an academy kid who loves the club and will be on lower wages. Sell whichever makes the most financial sense really though.
 

Idxomer

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I'll reiterate my stance, not good enough and never will be. Would find it hard to be first choice at Palace yet people think he's the future of the club, madness.
You're absolutely right and the current coaching setup not seeing that is a bit worrying. Very few midfielders in the league look less natural in their play than him. He's my least favorite type of player, watching him hover in the midfield is very exhausting.
 

red woppit

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It isn’t disrespectful, it is what it is. If you’re relying on McTominay and Fred to create then the chances simply aren’t coming. You say they played well but we were consistently criticized for playing shit football and always “the whole team didn’t play well.” The whole team wasn’t playing well because we’ve got two midfielder incapable of creating or controlling a match. Until Matic came back we were sitting 8th. That isn’t doing well. Our best spell has coincided with Matic returning and Bruno coming in to cover the entire burden of creating by himself, which isn’t sustainable.

Their forward passes are always limited. It’s always excuses. They’re limited because their ability is limited.

Sure we don’t know how they’ll develop but how often do you see 23 year olds completely change role and develop an entirely new skill set? Virtually never I’d say.

It’s no surprise all his good performances are against top teams. There is no need for a defensive 8 to do a job against Norwich and he and the team massively suffers because of it.
I see, they're not creative enough then. When was that a major part of their game? They are both solid box to box players, and were playing well before the lockdown, when we were crying out for a creative type of player to play in front of them, then Bruno arrived, and we started to play good football, where this 'shit football' and the whole team not playing well was I don't know. The whole team played poorly today, and that is what I said. When you have Mata and Lingard playing up front against a deep lying defensive team relying on quick counter attacks then any player will struggle to pass forward. I don't know how much a 23 year old can develop skills that he doesn't seem to have now, and change roles, I would imagine that different players will develop differently over time.
 

711

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He has every chance of being as good a player over his career as Nicky Butt or Darren Fletcher. Who had a shedload of medals each, mostly due to the players they had around them of course, but they still played their part. If we're lucky we might be saying that about McTominay too one day.