Gaming Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (PC, PS4, Xbox One)

[Ainu]

My GF has been playing it, and although it's amusing to hear her rant and make weird angry noises, she is absolutely kicking it's arse.

She insists not, but I'm convinced she has secretly been watching YT tutorials on the bosses! She just seems to beat them way too quickly, though she also absolutely smashed Elden Ring too without any OP builds, so maybe I just have to accept she's surpassed me

I've now started Sekiro again, it's great. Shame the engine sucks balls, and still have all the same gripes I did before, but I like the game more now with time. Have fun!

I think it needs to become a rule that any game made by From Software is instantly remade by Bluepoint, so we can enjoy it without any of the technical issues. It's either that or From Software fix their engine, but I think my scenario might be more realistic.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think it needs to become a rule that any game made by From Software is instantly remade by Bluepoint, so we can enjoy it without any of the technical issues. It's either that or From Software fix their engine, but I think my scenario might be more realistic.

Oh man, after playing Demon's Souls I would love a Bloodborne and Sekiro remake in that vein! Mainly cause their combat and layout still holds up so well. I only played both for the first time this year and adored them.

 

[largelyworried]

Oh man, after playing Demon's Souls I would love a Bloodborne and Sekiro remake in that vein! Mainly cause their combat and layout still holds up so well. I only played both for the first time this year and adored them.

Sekiro only came out in 2019 to be fair. Bloodborne desperately needs an update though, every time I replay it I have to force myself through the horrendous framerate for the first half hour til my brain comes to terms with it. Particularly annoying since you can play it at 60fps on a jailbroken PS4 without many issues, and the actual detail in the game is incredible even by modern standards.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Sekiro only came out in 2019 to be fair. Bloodborne desperately needs an update though, every time I replay it I have to force myself through the horrendous framerate for the first half hour til my brain comes to terms with it. Particularly annoying since you can play it at 60fps on a jailbroken PS4 without many issues, and the actual detail in the game is incredible even by modern standards.

Yeah but it uses an ancient engine and shows. I play Sekiro on my PC at max settings and it looked worse than Bloodborne did I'd say.

 

[Godfather]

Just started the game couple of weeks ago and as a big FromSoftware fanboy I naturally love it.

But feck me the Owl's second fight really did my head in. Just beat him after x amount of times and putting rot on pretty much everyone in the game. What a feeling though. Only FromSoftware give you those.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

 

[izzydiggler]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

That’s pretty much the experience - I wanted to love it but there are so many baffling design choices, mobs around bosses being most egregious.

I’ve played and finished all the FROM games and many of the clones but they are starting to wear thin on my patience, when they fail to improve mechanics and design choices that I can’t believe that people enjoy. It’s always enjoying in spite of them, not because of them.

 

[Gehrman]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

Cheese or git gud

 

[KirkDuyt]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

Why not just try a controller. Is it some sort of sacred principle or do you simply not own a controller?

 

[GhastlyHun]

Why not just try a controller. Is it some sort of sacred principle or do you simply not own a controller?

I don't have one, but i also really don't want to. I want to control where the camera goes, not have it jump around with characters.

 

[Ainu]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

I don't really remember the camera being an issue. All games like this have some camera jank, but it never seemed problematic here. As for clearing out normal enemies around mini-bosses, usually you can get pretty far with stealth and ranged kills. It can take a while to figure out the optimal route, especially against someone like Seven Ashina Spears, but it should be doable.

I you're not having fun after 8 hours though, it think it's time to consider dropping it. Speaking from personal experience, I found the combat sublime pretty much throughout the game and that's what kept me going through moments of frustration (which are pretty much inevitable, this game is tough as nails). I you're not finding that level of enjoyment, I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

[caid]

I don't have one, but i also really don't want to. I want to control where the camera goes, not have it jump around with characters.

Thats an not available option. You need to lock on in this game and the camera is still frequently an obstacle to be worked around. Its built for controller, it'll be a better experience with one.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Thats an not available option. You need to lock on in this game and the camera is still frequently an obstacle to be worked around. Its built for controller, it'll be a better experience with one.

Yeah, I'm starting to believe the game and me are not made for each other.

 

[caid]

Yeah, I'm starting to believe the game and me are not made for each other.

Could be. Dark souls you didn't need to lock on at times with some weapons but sekiro isn't a flexible game. You'll do it 'right' or not at all, its not going to make allowances or give you multiple ways of tackling things.
I will say that the mini bosses are very heavy early in the game and not particularly good fights. The run back to the actual bosses tends to be pretty straightforward, there might be an exception or two towards the end of the game i've forgotten about but generally you're set up outside the room with no enemies between you and boss.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Still sticking with it at the moment and devoting some more time to gitting gud. Turned my back on Lady Butterfly for now, as i remembered I still have elsewhere to go. Managed to dispatch the Ogre and General without dying, so I got that going for me.

 

[Gehrman]

Could be. Dark souls you didn't need to lock on at times with some weapons but sekiro isn't a flexible game. You'll do it 'right' or not at all, its not going to make allowances or give you multiple ways of tackling things.
I will say that the mini bosses are very heavy early in the game and not particularly good fights. The run back to the actual bosses tends to be pretty straightforward, there might be an exception or two towards the end of the game i've forgotten about but generally you're set up outside the room with no enemies between you and boss.

I never mastered the parry which so much of combat is about but i beat multiple times with the dodge and attack strategy. Still the final boss and a few others had me literally shaking.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Sooo. I started playing this on PC, put around 8 hours in. So far i'm not really enjoying myself most of the time, which is, obviously, going in large parts towards fighting (mini)boss encounters. Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time. Add to that the camera movement which simply does not want you to make use of a mouse (which i do and will absolutely not change), forcing you to lock onto enemies, but then sometimes just losing the lock, and it all feels pretty annoying due to busywork and jank. I wouldn't mind fighting a big bad guy 48 times to get it right, but i can't even focus on that. Do i just have to git gudder or is this the experience?

A few of the issues here i never encountered, to be honest. When you talk about the camera and other "jank". There were some instances where the camera got in its own way, but that was normally when i was fighting a large boss and things got a bit crazy. It does happen in From games from time to time. But it's never been a massive issue for me. May just be becuase you're playing on mouse. I think that a controller would be much better here.

As for the minions and the mini bosses, that's just the game. You need to juggle a few things at the same time. Personally I think this is one of From Software's best games. Up there with Bloodborne for me. So to answer your question, this is the experience and get gudder

 

[Moby]

Especially repeating the minibosses often entails clearing a large number of minions, which is plain boring after the first time.

That's the worst part about this game, absolutely no need to add that.

 

[Sky1981]

The trick with sekiro is in the sound FX.

I find it easier to memorize the pattern from sound than actually seeing the animation.

You just need to memorize the sound pattern to block

 

[Moby]

I you're not having fun after 8 hours though, it think it's time to consider dropping it. Speaking from personal experience, I found the combat sublime pretty much throughout the game and that's what kept me going through moments of frustration (which are pretty much inevitable, this game is tough as nails). I you're not finding that level of enjoyment, I'm not sure it's worth it.

I dropped it midway as well. The combat on one hand is absolutely exceptional in isolation, but I didn't get the rewarding experience that you do in other similar games because almost all of it is geared towards being patient and grind and less towards being able to be creative. Like someone said above, the game pretty much forces you to learn a very narrow playstyle and if that doesn't excite you, it's not gonna be fun. Also compared to Dark Souls and Bloodborne, the gameworld doesn't hold up in terms of getting you curious about exploration - which might have changed if I have continued possibly but I didn't get the same sense of mystery. It's a very 'purist' kinda game for me, and I wasn't able to get into that mindset that aligned with it's design. But I guess if you can you'd be absolutely in love with it.

 

[quadrant]

I dropped it midway as well. The combat on one hand is absolutely exceptional in isolation, but I didn't get the rewarding experience that you do in other similar games because almost all of it is geared towards being patient and grind and less towards being able to be creative. Like someone said above, the game pretty much forces you to learn a very narrow playstyle and if that doesn't excite you, it's not gonna be fun. Also compared to Dark Souls and Bloodborne, the gameworld doesn't hold up in terms of getting you curious about exploration - which might have changed if I have continued possibly but I didn't get the same sense of mystery. It's a very 'purist' kinda game for me, and I wasn't able to get into that mindset that aligned with it's design. But I guess if you can you'd be absolutely in love with it.

It's an interesting point about creativity. There's clearly less build variety than in, say, Elden Ring. On the other hand, in Sekiro your character has way more options than any single build in ER has. The way this panned out for me was that the late game bosses in Sekiro ended up being more intricate and involved than the ones in ER. In ER, for a given build, most boss moves had a single optimal response that would give you a window to attack, so when they did the move, you did the response. Learning the boss was generally about learning that one response. In Sekiro, you had so many more options that it was less an if-this-then-that test of memory and more a test of tactical thinking. If you responded one way, it would open up this range of attacks, if you responded a different way, it would be a different set. As much as I love ER (400hrs and counting) the bosses still feel more one-dimensional than Sekiro, even when faced with a different build.

 

[Moby]

It's an interesting point about creativity. There's clearly less build variety than in, say, Elden Ring. On the other hand, in Sekiro your character has way more options than any single build in ER has. The way this panned out for me was that the late game bosses in Sekiro ended up being more intricate and involved than the ones in ER. In ER, for a given build, most boss moves had a single optimal response that would give you a window to attack, so when they did the move, you did the response. Learning the boss was generally about learning that one response. In Sekiro, you had so many more options that it was less an if-this-then-that test of memory and more a test of tactical thinking. If you responded one way, it would open up this range of attacks, if you responded a different way, it would be a different set. As much as I love ER (400hrs and counting) the bosses still feel more one-dimensional than Sekiro, even when faced with a different build.

yeah I think I had a similar experience with Sekiro, although I haven't played ER. Sekiro is definitely not a test of memory, that I agree, however what I meant was that an optimal tactic for a boss is fairly rigid, and your experience of that battle hinges on how closely you adhere to that one specific tactic. Yes you can break it, allow the fight to end up an entirely different pattern and tactically respond to it throughout, but doing that for me completely broke the rhythm to a point where I lost interest in continuing the fight. Catching that one tactic that follows the intended rhythm of the fight requires perfecting that precise pattern, and I don't really get a choice of being able to carry out a fight in multiple patterns while still getting a similar sense of rhythm or excitement out of it.

And I think that's the intention of this game in general, even for clearing mobs, you usually spend a couple of runs to find that optimal route, which literally has a fixed order of each enemy position, direction to attack from etc and if you break it, it's not bad but you'd end up wasting way more time and lose interest. However if you always follow that, the whole things becomes a breeze so it depends on how you like approaching a game like this.

 

[Cascarino]

I really wanted to like it, but it’s the only fromsoft game I haven’t completed. Just couldn’t get into it.

Also compared to Dark Souls and Bloodborne, the gameworld doesn't hold up in terms of getting you curious about exploration - .

This was a big part of the reason for me. I love the worlds of DS, BB and ER, but never really felt the same way about Sekiro. I can see why it’s loved, but just wasn’t for me.

 

[Sweet Square]

The trick with sekiro is in the sound FX.

I find it easier to memorize the pattern from sound than actually seeing the animation.

You just need to memorize the sound pattern to block

Yep this. It’s pretty much a rhythm game like Thumper or Dance Dance revolution.

 

[quadrant]

yeah I think I had a similar experience with Sekiro, although I haven't played ER. Sekiro is definitely not a test of memory, that I agree, however what I meant was that an optimal tactic for a boss is fairly rigid, and your experience of that battle hinges on how closely you adhere to that one specific tactic. Yes you can break it, allow the fight to end up an entirely different pattern and tactically respond to it throughout, but doing that for me completely broke the rhythm to a point where I lost interest in continuing the fight. Catching that one tactic that follows the intended rhythm of the fight requires perfecting that precise pattern, and I don't really get a choice of being able to carry out a fight in multiple patterns while still getting a similar sense of rhythm or excitement out of it.

And I think that's the intention of this game in general, even for clearing mobs, you usually spend a couple of runs to find that optimal route, which literally has a fixed order of each enemy position, direction to attack from etc and if you break it, it's not bad but you'd end up wasting way more time and lose interest. However if you always follow that, the whole things becomes a breeze so it depends on how you like approaching a game like this.

Not sure I'd agree there's a single optimal approach to most end game fights, other than deflecting rather than blocking throughout. Definitely wasn't my experience. Obviously an individual player may have an approach they prefer, but that will change from player to player.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I'm still at it and having a better time as the game progresses. No other boss has killed me as often as Lady Butterfly so far, not even close. Even the three deathblows / two stages fight against Genichiro was a cakewalk in comparison. I fought him and pretty much immediately had the feel i could get a hold of him, several times made it to the second stage without needing to heal before getting that done as well. Unlocking more skills and healing items definitely helps dealing with the variety of enemies and their various attack moves.

 

[Redlambs]

I'm still at it and having a better time as the game progresses. No other boss has killed me as often as Lady Butterfly so far, not even close. Even the three deathblows / two stages fight against Genichiro was a cakewalk in comparison. I fought him and pretty much immediately had the feel i could get a hold of him, several times made it to the second stage without needing to heal before getting that done as well. Unlocking more skills and healing items definitely helps dealing with the variety of enemies and their various attack moves.

Butterfly is a very decent boss and teaches you to be more flowing. I always faced her before Genichiro, it taught me a lot.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Butterfly is a very decent boss and teaches you to be more flowing. I always faced her before Genichiro, it taught me a lot.

Ha, funny that. Lady Butterfly I managed to fluke my way past within a few tries, but Genichiro was the “oh shit, I actually need to master the mechanics of this game now” moment. There’s no cheesing, no over grinding, he’s just an awesome skill check. One of my favourite boss fights. Must have taken me upwards of 30 goes. I was battering him by the end. Pretty sure I took no damage on the first 2 phases when I killed him

 

[Redlambs]

Ha, funny that. Lady Butterfly I managed to fluke my way past within a few tries, but Genichiro was the “oh shit, I actually need to master the mechanics of this game now” moment. There’s no cheesing, no over grinding, he’s just an awesome skill check. One of my favourite boss fights. Must have taken me upwards of 30 goes. I was battering him by the end. Pretty sure I took no damage on the first 2 phases when I killed him

Genichiro is definitely where you perfect the blocking/parry mechanic. Butterfly, if you don't cheese, is the movement boss.

Doing both of those straight up is where you learn all you need to slice through enemies and makes getting to bosses far more fun once you flow.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Genichiro is definitely where you perfect the blocking/parry mechanic. Butterfly, if you don't cheese, is the movement boss.

Doing both of those straight up is where you learn all you need to slice through enemies and makes getting to bosses far more fun once you flow.

I didn’t cheese her you swine!

 

[Woodzy]

This is the one Fromsoft game that despite absolutely loving it I can’t bring myself to play it again.

Also never beat the final boss either.

 

[Redlambs]

I didn’t cheese her you swine!

I wasn't suggesting you did.

But you have now confirmed you did

This is the one Fromsoft game that despite absolutely loving it I can’t bring myself to play it again.

Also never beat the final boss either.

I really like it, but as I said all along it has a DS2 quality about it at times that really puts me off.

 

[Woodzy]

I wasn't suggesting you did.

But you have now confirmed you did




I really like it, but as I said all along it has a DS2 quality about it at times that really puts me off.

I’d probably agree with that, it has its bullshit moments. Even then I’ve replayed DS2 twice, I have a love/hate relationship with that one.

 

[caid]

I'm still at it and having a better time as the game progresses. No other boss has killed me as often as Lady Butterfly so far, not even close. Even the three deathblows / two stages fight against Genichiro was a cakewalk in comparison. I fought him and pretty much immediately had the feel i could get a hold of him, several times made it to the second stage without needing to heal before getting that done as well. Unlocking more skills and healing items definitely helps dealing with the variety of enemies and their various attack moves.

Genechiro and Lady Butterfly are usually the point people learn the game and start enjoying it a bit more. I didn't like a lot of the mini bosses but i think the proper bosses like them were excellent. I think after beating one the other is pretty easy really and you'll sail through a good chunk of the game from there. There'll be other roadblocks like Lady Butterfly later but they get easier the more you learn them. Except the last guy who's a total bastard

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ha, funny that. Lady Butterfly I managed to fluke my way past within a few tries, but Genichiro was the “oh shit, I actually need to master the mechanics of this game now” moment. There’s no cheesing, no over grinding, he’s just an awesome skill check. One of my favourite boss fights. Must have taken me upwards of 30 goes. I was battering him by the end. Pretty sure I took no damage on the first 2 phases when I killed him

I think Gienchiro (?) is the best boss fight I’ve ever played, period. Visually there are other more impressive baffles even in Sekiro like the Ape boss, but this one was so nerve wracking, intense and just pure combat at its finest. Beating it was so satisfying and epic that I immediately went to save the clip to watch it again. Lovely.

 

[quadrant]

I really like it, but as I said all along it has a DS2 quality about it at times that really puts me off.

Never heard that said before, in what way?

 

[Sky1981]

This is the one Fromsoft game that despite absolutely loving it I can’t bring myself to play it again.

Also never beat the final boss either.

You're not alone..cant be bothered about the final boss as Sekiro dont offer much on 2nd playthrough

 

[Redlambs]

Never heard that said before, in what way?

My thoughts are deeper somewhere in this thread about that mate and it's been a while since I've played, so I can't really remember the full points I was making. But in general, the engine version/level structure/range fighting/fake difficulty with the sneak attack stuff...all add to it. Like I say, I've expanded in the past, but this game does have a lot of the same hallmarks.

But let's not get it twisted, I still really like DS2 and I loved Sekiro overall. I'm talking from FROM's lofty standard on these games, so even their worst is better than most of the soulslike games that have spawned from them.

 

[quadrant]

My thoughts are deeper somewhere in this thread about that mate and it's been a while since I've played, so I can't really remember the full points I was making. But in general, the engine version/level structure/range fighting/fake difficulty with the sneak attack stuff...all add to it. Like I say, I've expanded in the past, but this game does have a lot of the same hallmarks.

But let's not get it twisted, I still really like DS2 and I loved Sekiro overall. I'm talking from FROM's lofty standard on these games, so even their worst is better than most of the soulslike games that have spawned from them.

I'm an unashamed DS2 enjoyer, despite it being the black sheep, so Im not implying there's an insult somwhere in the comparison. Its just not an obvious likeness to me, or at least no more than most other soulsborne games. Unlike Elden Ring, which is very reminiscent of DS2 and often gets called Dark Souls 2 2.

 

[Ainu]

You're not alone..cant be bothered about the final boss as Sekiro dont offer much on 2nd playthrough

There's a way to end the game roughly halfway through and fight a unique combination of a certain character plus a very different version of the final boss, so there is some incentive to go for a second run. I remember thinking that version was even harder than the Sword Saint for me personally.