Starting this thread was a mistake. Loads of decent or good players was let go and we are left wondering how much of a mistake it was. Fred doesn't not fall into that category.
Selling Fred was a mistake
- Thread starter Idxomer
- Start date
A lot people seem to remember Good Fred while they are forgetting all about Bad Fred, who was seen way more often.
He was an infuriatingly inconsistent player.
He was an infuriatingly inconsistent player.
can't tell if you're serious or if this is some drawn out windup. Fred and Amrabat don't play the same position and are completely different kinds of players, so why compare them? We needed a DM and Amrabat is one, Fred is not. So in your world, if we used Fred today as a DM instead of Amrabat, I think it would have been a total shit show, like many of Fred's performances for us. He was good at breaking up play for both us and our opponents. Selling Fred was 100% the correct decision.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. If it was, in the grand scheme of things, it's quite a minor one compared to some United have made in recent history
He was our best performing midfielder for years until last season with Casemiro. I think we could have used him this season. Much better player than he’s given credit for but we have to move forward. He was our best midfielder when we finished second but second isn’t good enough.
The mistake was not selling Fred but rather selling him and not having a replacement lined up. We're now massively missing that type of player in the middle of the park.
Amrabat was the last minute panic solution, but while he's a more consistent passer he's got about a tenth of the energy and seems less likely to win the ball through pressing. He also doesn't seem to do anything at all particularly well. Fine as a backup, but we needed a starter to fill that slot alongside Casemiro.
I think the plan was to sell McTominay as well and use the combined fees to get a strong Fred replacement, but for some reason we thought it would be a class idea to sell the more useful of the two players first.
Amrabat was the last minute panic solution, but while he's a more consistent passer he's got about a tenth of the energy and seems less likely to win the ball through pressing. He also doesn't seem to do anything at all particularly well. Fine as a backup, but we needed a starter to fill that slot alongside Casemiro.
I think the plan was to sell McTominay as well and use the combined fees to get a strong Fred replacement, but for some reason we thought it would be a class idea to sell the more useful of the two players first.
I would say a lot of people significantly exaggerate how often we saw 'Bad Fred', and also how inconsistent he was. We had numerous players who were more inconsistent than he was, yet it never got talked about anywhere near as much. This is especially the case once he was moved into the #8 role that he obviously should have been playing the entire time. The issue is that Bad Fred was worse than most players are when they are bad (like his 'partner' in McTominay who just disappears instead of actually doing anything noteworthy) and his passing can absolutely go to shit, so it really stands out and gets remembered.
Obviously he was terrible for most of his first season as he struggled to adjust to the English game. Hardly the first player to do that so I give him a bit of leeway, and towards the end of the season he was starting to show signs that he was getting used to it. Then he had 18 months where he was quite good, probably our most consistent midfielder in that time. He did drop off a bit during the entire calendar year of 2021, before then again being quite good for most of his final 18 months (when Rangnick and ETH finally started playing him in his correct position). So if we ignore his first season where he was getting to grips with the English game, he was generally fairly good for three of the remaining four years he was here (three out of five if you want to include the first season). Sure he had some horror games in there, but name me one player in the squad that didn't?
It's funny how some players get remembered differently than they really should. Matic is probably the best example of the opposite. In reality he was much more inconsistent than Fred; or perhaps a better way of putting it is that he was consistently poor much more often. His best ever season was his first, and even then he was only good in the first half before getting worse and worse as the season wore on. The following season he was absolutely dreadful (second only to Lukaku in how bad he was) until after Mourinho got sacked, at which time he did well for about two months before falling away again. Then 19/20 he was poor all season other than one month before lockdown and another month after lockdown. Then in his last two seasons he was mostly poor with just the occasional good few games here and there, and even then it was normally only for the first 60 minutes of the matches. However, he looked classy while doing it so he gets remembered much more fondly.
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Fridge... 
Who eulogises Matic's time here? I must have missed that. I don't think he was inconsistent, personally. He was only the player we thought we were getting in the first season and then performances went downhill before dropping off a cliff. He's regularly brought up by those concerned Casemiro will go or has already gone the same way.
In relation to Fred, being fairly good on his day and not being able to trust whether he'll be able to pass the ball 5 yards just isn't not good enough. Other players also playing poorly doesn't really come into it. This is in the context of whether it was a mistake to sell him. I don't think it was a mistake to sell him and to be honest it was a mistake to buy both him and Matic.
We can't keep having these debates about players we move on. Fred wasn't good enough. He was a likeable enough chap and a hard worker but not close to the standard required.
We're looking for people of the calibre of Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson, Paul Ince, Michael Carrick, Roy Keane etc....that has to remain the aspiration.
The fact that so far we've failed to bring in the required quality as his replacement(s) doesn't change the fact it was time for him to leave. Same for De Gea, same for Ronaldo...same for every other player who has left in the last 24-months
We're looking for people of the calibre of Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson, Paul Ince, Michael Carrick, Roy Keane etc....that has to remain the aspiration.
The fact that so far we've failed to bring in the required quality as his replacement(s) doesn't change the fact it was time for him to leave. Same for De Gea, same for Ronaldo...same for every other player who has left in the last 24-months
Think that's spot on.
We struggle as a team to pass the ball. It makes no sense to want a player who individually struggled with his passing and first touch.
I'm more frustrated we let Garner go. A player whose strength is on the ball.
Just to then bring Amrabat in.
Matic was just a very easy and obvious example (playing in basically the same position) of someone who doesn't get anywhere near as much criticism in general or accusations of inconsistency. McTominay is another one who got by with relatively little criticism for most of their time together, with that only really changing about 18 months ago when he started getting heavy criticism.
The way people go on is as if Fred was easily our most inconsistent player, and one of the most inconsistent in the league, when in reality I would say at least 50% of our squad was (and is) more inconsistent.
You keep repeating that about Matic being inconsistent but it doesn't make it true. Matic was not inconsistent, in my view. He was good at the start and got worse over time. The issue with Fred was always the gap between his top and bottom level, that's what was infuriating. He could look like a proper CL player against Barca and then an absolute clown with two right feet against Burnley in the next game. His passing was also wildly erratic. Other players didn't really have such extreme swings so wouldn't elicit as much of a response in that regard as you weren't expecting as much from them.
Oh dear.
It is a good idea to sell aging players when they are still worth something. It was a good decision. Hannibal takes Fred’s place, all is well.
It is a good idea to sell aging players when they are still worth something. It was a good decision. Hannibal takes Fred’s place, all is well.
Okay and?What a joke of a post, imagine bigging up Mount who didn't even have a single game in United midfield. One can understand the idea behind turning him form no10 to no8 with potentially more threat. But the defensive nous, agression, stamina, and all the hardwork behind Fred simply isnt replaced. All we see a team that is defending and attscking much worse because we cant make turnovers, we cant press and defend properly. Yes Mount was injured most of the time, but at least Fred didn't have to be given instructions he was clever and determined enough to be a very decent no8 over years looking at some other options who started here over years.
Let's talk about Mount being better once he starts performing won't you ?
Mount's history has shown he's a better player. Whether he'll be that for Man Utd and/or any future club remains to be seen.
18 wins from 18 starts now. They dropped points when he was suspended on Christmas Eve.
Must be refreshing for him playing in a team where he doesn't have to run for McTominay as well.
He was covering for McT for 4 years. He wasnt a natural DM but he could position himself. Something that McT can't do at all.
Keeping Mctominay was a mistake. Playing Mctominay is a mistake. Such a nothing player, actually have no idea what he's good at.
"He arrives late in the box to attack crosses" that's all he does and not even at a high level.
Does absolutely fcking nothing on the ball or off it. I'm sick off watching him. I knew immediately that when he came on, MU will lose all control of the midfield and there be acres of space for NFO midfielders. It's actually a sackable offence for ETH to bring him on for Mainoo.
"He arrives late in the box to attack crosses" that's all he does and not even at a high level.
Does absolutely fcking nothing on the ball or off it. I'm sick off watching him. I knew immediately that when he came on, MU will lose all control of the midfield and there be acres of space for NFO midfielders. It's actually a sackable offence for ETH to bring him on for Mainoo.
How is this thread still going on.
The position he’s bought Mount to play is Fred’s proper position. The mind boggles.
We sold Fred to keep the sack of shite named Scott McTominay... WHAT THE F.UCK?!
Fred was our best midfielder by some distance
The state of our midfield.
Yeah it would be even better with Fred? Jesus..The state of our midfield.
But McT is better than Fred isn’t he? At least he gets the odd goal or something. The state of this place. Not a clue.
Same thing we've seen with the chat about de Gea, and now apparently even some with Elanga. Memory of the past tends to be quite selective, it seems.
It was a mistake in that he could do Mount's supposed job very well while not always being injured. He was a good #8.
It was understandable and not a mistake in that he was the only one anyone could be remotely interested in paying a fee and us not having to subsidise his wages.
It was understandable and not a mistake in that he was the only one anyone could be remotely interested in paying a fee and us not having to subsidise his wages.
After games like this we can apply hindsight and say Fred would of been decent, but there were two Freds and you never knew which one would turn up, not to mention Ten Hag would probably play him out of position or instead of someone better, he'd just be another frustrating inconsistent midfielder to add to our collection of frustrating inconsistent midfielders.
Fred was terrible- the mistake was not selling a few more. He wouldn’t have been any better than McT covering defensive positions.
When Fred and Mctominay come together they form the perfect manager sacking machine
Selling Fred was not the mistake. He was an aging inconsistent midfielder we had a fee for, otherwise we’d end up renewing him (probably without negotiation to reduce wages!)
The mistake is not having a midfield in place capable of losing Fred.
I liked Fred, he had his contributions, but it was time to move on. It’s the Mount move that didn’t make a great deal of sense.
The mistake is not having a midfield in place capable of losing Fred.
I liked Fred, he had his contributions, but it was time to move on. It’s the Mount move that didn’t make a great deal of sense.
Selling him was not a mistake, he has always been erratic with his passing and with him you could never control the game or rely on which Fred would turn up. Plus his finishing and shooting technique is probably the worst I have seen from CMs, generally they are great strikers of the ball.
However, what was a big stupid mistake, was replacing a hardworking CM with an AM (Mount) who is never available or never plays in the same position. We needed to upgrade Fred, whereas we have arguable upgraded VDB, which is irrelevant because Bruno will always be preferred to him.
However, what was a big stupid mistake, was replacing a hardworking CM with an AM (Mount) who is never available or never plays in the same position. We needed to upgrade Fred, whereas we have arguable upgraded VDB, which is irrelevant because Bruno will always be preferred to him.
Selling Fred was like selling Evans or Smalling. Yeah they weren't really good enough and you want to improve on them but we didn't replace them with better players, they were better than what we kept and we could have actually used them had they stuck around.
Fred isn't good enough to be a starter, and if that's what he wanted then fair enough. But if he was happy to be a squad player, then we downgraded with Amrabat.
Fred could be erratic but he was also very good at times for us. Remember the Kante comparisons? Playing with Bruno and Mctomomay didn't help, that's a one man midfield.
That said it wasn't a bad idea to sell him, he's 30 and as an all action midfield his decline will come sooner rather than later. The problem is spending £60m on Mount as a replacement midfielder, a guy that barely passes for a midfielder and mostly played in the front 3 for Chelsea. £50m on an old Casemiro. Luckily we have Maino coming in but as has been the case for United over the last ten years, we seem to replace players that were often good for us but not consistently great with players that are just worse.
In the end it all goes down to the recruitment - Ole, ETH, the Glazers, and whoever and sanctioning transfers in the recruitment department - the best teams are built with good recruitment and ours is woeful. Mourinho wasn't amazing at it with us but his transfer record is a country mile ahead of LVG, Ole and ETH.
That said it wasn't a bad idea to sell him, he's 30 and as an all action midfield his decline will come sooner rather than later. The problem is spending £60m on Mount as a replacement midfielder, a guy that barely passes for a midfielder and mostly played in the front 3 for Chelsea. £50m on an old Casemiro. Luckily we have Maino coming in but as has been the case for United over the last ten years, we seem to replace players that were often good for us but not consistently great with players that are just worse.
In the end it all goes down to the recruitment - Ole, ETH, the Glazers, and whoever and sanctioning transfers in the recruitment department - the best teams are built with good recruitment and ours is woeful. Mourinho wasn't amazing at it with us but his transfer record is a country mile ahead of LVG, Ole and ETH.
Funny how it's always the ones we don't have.
Fred had his moments and they were glorious, maybe some of the greatest individual highlights of any united player, but he simply wasn't fit to run for office and was rightly sold
Not suggesting he was the answer but used in the right way already proven numerous times was worth 8m. Everyone said they couldnt wait for him to leave and the midfield is worse. At least Fred had some big performances against the best teams.