Serie A 90's Draft Round 1 - harms vs Oaencha

[2mufc0]

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING: voting should be based on player performances in Serie A/Coppa Italia from the 90/91 season to 99/00. Performances outside this timeframe or other competitions do not count.

TEAM HARMS

VS

TEAM OAENCHA

HARMS TACTICS


Key players:

Luís Ronaldo. The best player in the draft, Ronaldo was simply devastating in his first season at Inter; Maldini, Nesta, Ferrara, Thuram, Cannavaro — he just didn't give a feck about the opposition, tearing the league apart game after game. For the most part Ronaldo left a great generation of centre-backs at their wits’ end, their brains melting with the demands of concentrating against him for 90 minutes. His presence doesn't give me much of a choice regarding the tactical side of the game, my whole team is built around him, their main task is to win the ball and to give it to Fenômeno. His 1997/98 season belongs alongside the greatest individual peaks in history. I won't link the obvious UEFA Cup video, as it is a Serie A draft, but let's hear it from the opposition's stars:
Nesta said:
The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo. He was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still. He is simply the most spectacular sight in football
Zanetti said:
Along with Messi he is the best player I have shared a dressing room with. Of course he had so much skill and ability, but people do not realise just how powerful he was


Ciro Ferrara and Paolo Montero. The foundation of the great Juventus team of the 90's, Ferrara and Montero complimented each other perfectly. Out of 4 seasons relevant for this draft that they've played together, they've won 2 Serie A titles (Ferrara also has 3 Serie A wins before that and together they've won 2 Serie A titles in the 00's). Ryan Giggs described Ferrara and his defensive teammate at Juventus Paolo Montero as "...the toughest defenders [he] played against". Georges Grün completes the defense — he played on the right of a back 3 most of his time in the vintage Parma side at the beginning of 90's. Perhaps not the shiniest name around, but he's had an average 6,30 rating in the Italian press over the course of 4 seasons, and he even got the Ballon d'Or nomination in 1993 (26th place). He has represented Belgium in 3 World Cups.

Clarence Seedorf. His peak in the 90's would be judged by 2 separated seasons — 1995/96 for Sampdoria, a great season that earned him a transfer to Real Madrid; and the second part of 1999/2000 season for Inter, in which he proved himself a big game player — he scored goals against Juventus, Milan and Lazio (in the Cup final). A wonderful athlete, a sort of extremely fast concrete wall who could play one-touch:

Daniele Massaro. AC Milan had scored (!) 36 goals in 34 games in their 1993/94 campaign. 11 of them were scored by Daniele Massaro (in only 17 starts). He scored 11 goals in 10 games (most of them were from the 20th to the 29th round, he scored in 8 out of 10); 8 (or even 9 as he scored a brace in the 2:1 win over Cagliari) of them won the game for AC Milan, 1 saved a point in the 1:1 draw against Parma, and only 1 goal was scored in the game that AC Milan lost 2:3. Out of 50 points that AC Milan gained that season, which was just enough to secure the first place, 17 were gained by Massaro’s goals (the number would've been even more impressive if the win costed, like now, 3 points instead of 2). It was enough to earn him the Guerin D’Oro — an annual prize that the Guerin Sportivo gives to the Serie A player with the highest average-media rating. Not to mention his brace in the CL final that season where Capello’s Milan destroyed Cruyff’s Barcelona 4:0. A perfect man to support O Fenomeno — when he is double/tripple marked Massaro and Djorkaeff will get their chances to win this game for me.

Tactical details:

2 triangles, Cabrini — Seedorf — Massaro and Fuser — Jonk — Djorkaeff. On paper those triangles look almost identical, but they are a bit differently balanced.

On the left we have a more defensive wing-back (Amedeo Carboni is perhaps better known for his stint at Valencia in the 00's, but he is a true legend for Roma, and he played in a more attacking way than he did in Spain, as he still was at his physical peak in Italy), a more creative/attacking midfielder in Seedorf and a striker/left side attacker in Massaro, who played both as a winger and as a striker for AC Milan.

On the right I have a Lazio legend Diego Fuser, who player in the similar formation for Parma. He wasn't a defender, but he played as a right-sided midfielder with the back three, so he should be in his element here. Wim Jonk is more defensive than his Dutch compatriot, which balanced the difference in wing-back's attitudes. Plus Yuri Djorkaeff is more likely to drop in midfield, as he was a goalscoring attacking midfielder and not a pure striker.

Claudio Taffarel is well known as probably the best goalkeeper in Brazil's history, earning himself more than 100 caps for his country. His first stint at Parma in the 90's was quite successful. It speak volumes about his level that Parma sacrificed one foreign spot for a keeper — he didn't had an Italian citizenship at the time. Sadly, after they signed Asprilla, with Sensini and Brölin already in the team they decided to pick an Italian for his place.

OAENCHA TACTICS

Quick Summary of Tactics

4-4-2 Diamond with fast, attacking football.

• Zanetti and Candela have free reign to attack the wings.

• Nesta will try and keep tabs on Ronaldo.

• Tacchinardi is the defensive midfielder at the base of the diamond.

• Boghossian will drop back when the team is under pressure.

• Nakata will push forward and join the attack.

• Zola has a free role.

• Zamorano will bring out the best in Inzaghi.

• Inzaghi will goal hang.

Player Information & Tactics

Gianluca Pagliuca

One of the very best goalkeepers in Serie A during the 90s. An incredible shot stopper with fantastic reflexes and agility.

(Instructions) Shine on you crazy diamond. He will be his usual eccentric self, organising the defence and keeping the ball out of the net.

Javier Zanetti

An absolute legend who dominated the right flank during his career. He joined Inter in 1995 and was one of the world’s best in his position right up until he retired in 2014.

(Instructions) While defending he will get back and provide cover. While attacking he will charge down the right wing, interchanging passes with Boghossian and Zola, crossing balls into the box for Inzaghi and Zamorano.

Alessandro Nesta

An exceptional centre back who needs no introduction. Among his many talents he was known for his marking skills which he will need to make full use of here.

(Instructions) He has one task in this match; keep tabs on Ronaldo and give him as little space as possible.

Francesco Baldini

A very solid centre back who was a regular for Napoli after joining in 1995, making 168 appearances.

(Instructions) While Nesta is busy with Ronaldo, Baldini will stay in position, charging down any other attacks.

Vincent Candela

A fast and technical wing back who loved getting forward, while also being very capable in defence. A regular for Roma after joining in 1997 and recognised as one of the best left wing backs in the league.

(Instructions) While defending he will get back and provide cover. While attacking he will charge down the left wing, interchanging passes with Nakata and Zola, crossing balls into the box for Inzaghi and Zamorano.

Alessio Tacchinardi

You don’t make 261 appearances for Juventus unless you’re talented. He was versatile, tactically aware, a precise tackler and displayed an excellent passing range.

(Instructions) He will play at the base of the diamond, looking to intercept passes, make challenges and put pressure on any attacking players.

Alain Boghossian

Not a flashy player but was very useful during his stints with Napoli, Sampdoria and Parma. He had excellent vision and the ability to pick out a pass from nowhere.

(Instructions) He is functioning as a deep playmaker, linking the defence and midfield. When the team is under pressure he will drop back and help Tacchinardi.

Hidetoshi Nakata

Behind the good looks and marketing, Nakata was a very technically skilled player. In terms of output his most productive years were spent at Perugia (1998-2000) where he scored 12 goals in 48 games.

(Instructions) He has no defensive duties in this role and will use his pace and dribbling skills to push forward and contribute to the attack.

Gianfranco Zola

Mentored by Maradona and a beast for Napoli and Parma during the 90s. He was skilful, unpredictable and had one hell of a shot on him.

(Instructions) He has a free role behind Inzaghi and Zamorano, allowing him to supply them passes or hit a stunner from 30 yards.

Ivan Zamorano

A very talented striker who (outside of Chile) doesn’t get the recognition he deserves. His goalscoring numbers aren’t amazing, mainly because he was selfless and always played for the team.

(Instructions) Wearing his famous 1+8 shirt again, his role is to bring out the best in Inzaghi while also offering an attacking threat of his own.

Filippo Inzaghi

Love him or hate him, Inzaghi was a goal machine. Everyone knows about his time with Juventus and Milan but in the 1996-1997 season he recorded 24 goals in 33 games for Atlanta, scoring against every single club in the league.

(Instructions) He’s permanently positioned in the box (probably offside) to put away any chances that come his way.

 

[2mufc0]

Good luck @harms @Oaencha .

 

[Oaencha]

Good luck @harms

Thank you @2mufc0. How come I’m now the away team? I was drawn at home.

 

[2mufc0]

Good luck @harms

Thank you @2mufc0. How come I’m now the away team? I was drawn at home.

I did it in order of who sent the writeup in earlier.

This shouldn't affect the assessment of the game.

For arguments sake the game is being played at a neutral venue.

 

[harms]

Cheers @2mufc0, good luck @Oaencha

A bit surprising to see such attacking line up with 4 players freed of defensive duties, but other than that a great team.

edit: voted for myself

 

[2mufc0]

Ronaldo would rip the majority of defenders in this draft, but Nesta is one of the few you would want in there to try and keep him quiet. A good matchup.

 

[idmanager]

Nice write up harms.

On first look, Zola looks a really scary prospect to deal with and should have the most impact on the pitch considering who he is dealing with.

 

[Oaencha]

I did it in order of who sent the writeup in earlier.

This shouldn't affect the assessment of the game.

For arguments sake the game is being played at a neutral venue.

I’m not so sure about that but we’ll see.

 

[harms]

Oh, some pieces are missing from the OP.

Here's a bit about Ronaldo:

The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo. He was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still. He is simply the most spectacular sight in football

Along with Messi he is the best player I have shared a dressing room with. Of course he had so much skill and ability, but people do not realise just how powerful he was

Seedorf: a compilation from 1999/00 and a great game against Juventus with Davids and Conte in midfield


The example of Carboni's run — people know him best from Valencia, where he was far less attacking. True Roma legend at his physical peak. I was too lazy to make him a compilation

 

[2mufc0]

Oh, some pieces are missing from the OP.

Here's a bit about Ronaldo:




Seedorf: a compilation from 1999/00 and a great game against Juventus with Davids and Conte in midfield


The example of Carboni's run — people know him best from Valencia, where he was far less attacking. True Roma legend at his physical peak. I was too lazy to make him a compilation

Sorry mate, not sure why that happened, i did copy paste as you sent in.

 

[harms]

A bit of trivia, Djorkaeff vs Zidane comparison in 1996/97 (obviously not the peak version of Zizou). Djorkaeff actually outperformed him in numerous occasions, although Zidane established his status as France's number 1 star from 1998 forwards. It's not an attack on Zidane, he isn't even playing, but rather an interesting point to highlight Djorkaeff's peak.

Character, technique, vision, goal-scoring, endurance, personality are the attributes on hand.

 

[2mufc0]

I’m not so sure about that but we’ll see.

I've never seen this issue brought up in any draft game here, so i don't think its anything to worry about.

 

[harms]

Sorry mate, not sure why that happened, i did copy paste as you sent in.

Not a problem, formatted pieces (videos, quotes and spoilers) are usually lost if you copy paste.

 

[2mufc0]

Not a problem, formatted pieces (videos, quotes and spoilers) are usually lost if you copy paste.

What's the best way of pulling them over?

 

[Oaencha]

You’ve put together a really good team @harms.

The Nesta and Zanetti quotes show how good Ronaldo is but it doesn’t mean they can’t deal with him; just that it will be hard.

I think my attack would cause your defence massive problems. Carbone and Fuser are more offensively minded, leaving you three centre backs to deal with Inzaghi, Zamorano and Zola through the middle and Zanetti and Candela attacking the wings.

I will also point out that while still good, Seedorf is not peak Seedorf.

 

[harms]

What's the best way of pulling them over?

To quote and then copy the code.

You’ve put together a really good team @harms.

The Nesta and Zanetti quotes show how good Ronaldo is but it doesn’t mean they can’t deal with him; just that it will be hard.

I think my attack would cause your defence massive problems. Carbone and Fuser are more offensively minded, leaving you three centre backs to deal with Inzaghi, Zamorano and Zola through the middle and Zanetti and Candela attacking the wings.

I will also point out that while still good, Seedorf is not peak Seedorf.

Cheers.

Seedorf isn't his Milan version but he is still the best midfielder on the pitch — I think I've provided enough evidence to support this claim.

Re: Nesta and Zanetti — I don't say that they'll be ripped apart, but I'd still bet on Ronaldo here. Even when we exclude that UEFA Cup final performance we're left with the games like:

Spoiler

where he glides past Nesta a few times like he isn't there — but misses by a few inches. It's not an attack on Nesta, he is a magnificent defender, but Ronaldo is just that good.

Not sure about Carbone not being able to cover and help the back three. My midfield is balanced enough, and Carboni won't spend most of the game attacking, he is a natural left back. On the right Fuser is, obviosly, a more attacking wing player, but while he usually contributed a lot to the midfield battle, I also have a more defensive Jonk to help him out.


Also, while Nesta is a better defender than Ferrara (or Montero for that matter) when we compare their whole careers, I'd say that the gap between them isn't that big when we consider their peaks in the 90's and — especially — the fact that Ferrara plays with his beloved foil Montero, a classic case of "greater than the sum of it's parts". Zola is your best attacker but when he'll go forward, he will play against my best defender.

 

[Oaencha]

Zola can cause the most damage but while he’s distracting the defence you’ve still got everyone else to deal with.

 

[harms]

Zola can cause the most damage but while he’s distracting the defence you’ve still got everyone else to deal with.

The same can be said about Ronaldo — to the bigger extent, of course. And there is not only Djorkaeff and Massaro to worry about — Jonk had a thunderous shot on him, Seedorf too (and he stepped up in the biggest games), even Fuser was quite prolific — having almost 1 in 3 record at his peak, only Carboni isn't one.

 

[Raees]

Strong match up this

 

[Oaencha]

The same can be said about Ronaldo — to the bigger extent, of course. And there is not only Djorkaeff and Massaro to worry about — Jonk had a thunderous shot on him, Seedorf too (and he stepped up in the biggest games), even Fuser was quite prolific — having almost 1 in 3 record at his peak, only Carboni isn't one.

I don’t disagree at all. Ronaldo is the key for you though, hence why Nesta’s only task is to focus on him.

I honestly think this match is a tough one to call.

 

[Oaencha]

I haven’t really focused on what Nakata can bring to the game so here’s a nice compilation of all of Nakata’s goals in Serie A; including the ones for Perugia.

 

[TheReligion]

I think Candela and Zanetti as width add an edge here.

Interesting match up. Peak Ronaldo is a beast but the inclusion of Nesta just about evens things out. When you look at the rest you have to wonder about the discipline of Montero in that back line against the trickery of Zola and Nakata.

Can see Inzaghi having joy in behind.

 

[Oaencha]

And here are Inzaghi’s 24 goals in the 96/97 season for Atlanta.

 

[harms]

Ronaldo is, obviously, a key here. Specifically given his personal record against Nesta and the fact that Nesta isn't at the very peak of his powers (which would be from 2000 to 2004 imo). He'll probably score, but what set him apart wasn't goalscoring (Bierhoff scored more), it was the sheer presence he had on the pitch and the absolute dominance that he inflicted on games. He usually had at least 2 or 3 players on him — and while Inter failed to capitalise on that, eventually losing the title to a better balanced Juventus side, I have not only Djorkaeff, but also this guy to score a crucial goal:

Daniele Massaro. In his 5 seasons in the 90's he has won 3 Serie A titles and became runner up once. But the most incredible season for him was 1993/94. Van Basten was gone and Milan struggled to replace him — combined with the Capello's arrival it made them ultra-defensive and not that fun to watch. This synopsis led to the ultimate climax, where Capello's Milan destroyed romanticised Cruyff's Barca in the CL final — and it was Massaro, who scored 2 opening goals against them.

But if we're speaking about him league wise, I want to highlight his ridiculous streak of winning goals in the 1993/94. AC Milan won that title scoring 36 goals in 34 games — absolutely ridiculous and unbelievable stat (they conceded mere 15 goals). And their win was based on that run that started from the 20th round, where Massaro scored 8 of his 11 goals. No wonder he was called "Providence". Even the fact that he missed the last few tours didn't matter in the end — AC Milan won, and Massaro scored third of their goals, mostly absolutely crucial


20 a winner in 2:0 against Piacenza

21 a winner in 1:0 against Atlanta

22 a winner in 2:0 against Roma

23 nothing in 1:0 against Cremonese

24 a winner in 1:0 against Lazio

25 a winner in 2:1 against Foggia

26 nothing in 1:0 against Juventus

27 a winner in 1:0 against Sampdoria

28 a winner in 2:1 against Inter

30 an only goal in 1:1 against Parma

 

[harms]

I think Candela and Zanetti as width add an edge here.

Interesting match up. Peak Ronaldo is a beast but the inclusion of Nesta just about evens things out. When you look at the rest you have to wonder about the discipline of Montero in that back line against the trickery of Zola and Nakata.

Can see Inzaghi having joy in behind.

How so? Nesta hasn't got a good record against Ronaldo.

 

[Oaencha]

That was a good read. I’m not doubting that you’ve got a great attack but in my opinion the key to this game is the number of attacking options I have against your defence.

Fuser and Carbone are very high up the pitch so you’re essentially playing with a back three who have to deal with...

- Zanetti and Candela’s pace and crossing ability from the wings.

- Inzaghi and Zamorano’s finishing in the box.

- Zola in a free role through the middle with his long range shots and free kicks.

- Nakata’s pace and dribbling skills also through the middle.

 

[harms]

By the way, since people started questioning Montero, I want to highlight that Ronaldo and co will be regularly facing Francesco Baldini — by far the weakest defender on the pitch, who spent half of the 90's in Serie B.

Notice how his media rating changes once Napoli goes up (and then down again)

My "weakest" defender has won Coppa and European titles with Parma and has 77 caps for his country (as well as a great record in Serie A).


Another player who is going to regularly face Baldini (first and foremost, since Nesta is trying to contain Ronaldo full time):

 

[antohan]

Not keen on Carboni at wingback @harms. It's not just about "can he attack?, can he defend?" but the untested positional awareness. A bit like sticking a defender at DM, if not as risky/hard to pull off.

 

[Oaencha]

The music is terrible but here are Zola’s best goals for Napoli and Parma. His free kicks were just incredible.

 

[harms]

Not keen on Carboni at wingback @harms. It's not just about "can he attack?, can he defend?" but the untested positional awareness. A bit like sticking a defender at DM, if not as risky/hard to pull off.

I can understand the critique. Thankfully he isn't facing a winger.

 

[antohan]

I don’t disagree at all. Ronaldo is the key for you though, hence why Nesta’s only task is to focus on him.

I honestly think this match is a tough one to call.

I find that extremely worrying. Are you man-marking Ronaldo wherever he goes? Hard as it would be to pull off for any mortal, it should be a spare man doing it, not one of your two CBs.

 

[Oaencha]

By the way, since people started questioning Montero, I want to highlight that Ronaldo and co will be regularly facing Francesco Baldini — by far the weakest defender on the pitch, who spent half of the 90's in Serie B.

Notice how his media rating changes once Napoli goes up (and then down again)

My "weakest" defender has won Coppa and European titles with Parma and has 77 caps for his country (as well as a great record in Serie A).


Another player who is going to regularly face Baldini (first and foremost, since Nesta is trying to contain Ronaldo full time):

Baldini wasn’t amazing but he was a solid defender who (as your stats show) was a regular for Napoli between 94-99.

He’s also surrounded by Nesta, Zanetti, Candela and Pagliuca who were all fantastic players. I’m confident Baldini is good enough to be on the pitch.

 

[Oaencha]

I can understand the critique. Thankfully he isn't facing a winger.

He’s facing Zanetti which is just as bad.

 

[harms]

He’s facing Zanetti which is just as bad.

Not really. If Zanetti, who plays in a back 4, is pushing forward, Nesta is following Ronaldo on a man-marking mission — you see where I'm going with this? Suddenly Baldini is trying to contain fecking everything.

 

[Oaencha]

I find that extremely worrying. Are you man-marking Ronaldo wherever he goes? Hard as it would be to pull off for any mortal, it should be a spare man doing it, not one of your two CBs.

No, he isn’t exactly man marking and I was careful to use the words ‘keeping tabs on’. He will be wary of his positioning but will focus on Ronaldo when he is attacking with the ball.

 

[Oaencha]

Not really. If Zanetti, who plays in a back 4, is pushing forward, Nesta is following Ronaldo on a man-marking mission — you see where I'm going with this? Suddenly Baldini is trying to contain fecking everything.

That’s not what is happening at all. As I mentioned in the write up, Zanetti and Candela will push forward when the team attacks but will stay back to defend when the team is under pressure. They won’t be attacking while the team is defending.

Likewise with Nesta. He will keep tabs on Ronaldo when he’s attacking with the ball but will not follow him all over the pitch.

 

[Oaencha]

Tacchinardi is also providing cover in front of the defence, along with Boghossian if necessary. So there’s plenty of support while defending.

 

[antohan]

I can understand the critique. Thankfully he isn't facing a winger.

Well, he is facing Zanetti though. He will murder a makeshift wingback.

 

[Enigma_87]

Good match up.

On @harms I like that 3-4-3 formation and the personnel. I'm not sure about the quality of your midfield pair tho. Seedorf and Jonk IMO won't be able to control the game, considering this is pre-prime Seedorf and more of a box to boxy type of midfielder rather than the late midfield general and also playmaker.

A lot of the team mechanics hinges on Ronaldo to carry the attack - Djorkaeff is also a nice fit there so it should work well and Montero/Ferrara/Grun to provide stability at the back.

Oaencha has an upper hand on the flanks, especially with young Zanetti there who was a beast going forward and Carboni will have a tough time handling him on his own.

On the flip side Ronaldo is known to create chaos for the opposition defenders and Lazio's Nesta had issues with him in the past and Fenomeno usually gave him a torrid time.

Baldini is also a bit of a weak spot, considering Ronaldo occupying Nesta most of the time, so Massaro will have some joy.

Will have to think this one over methinks, it's a good game between two very different "philosophies" and formations.

 

[antohan]

No, he isn’t exactly man marking and I was careful to use the words ‘keeping tabs on’. He will be wary of his positioning but will focus on Ronaldo when he is attacking with the ball.

So he is basically playing his usual game. He would be an idiot not to keep an eye on Ronaldo, but his main duties relate to his position in the defensive line.

Or, putting it another way, it will be Ronaldo choosing which CB has to deal with him and where.