Yeah agreed. If pogba can play in a two it allows us to squeeze in more of our attacking talent as well.
Should Pogba play as a 10 in front of two defensive midfielders?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
- Start date
Pogba is a No.8, we should play him next to Matic or in a midfield of 3, but not as our main No.10.
I think the higher starting position as a #10 would lessen some of his strengths. We’d see less of his range of passing, him running into space, long range passing or bringing the ball up.
His style of play would be too forced in the confines of the final third. He’s good in the final third when the situation dictates to get forward.
I’m convinced he’s better when free to come up out of a flat three-man midfield than playing underneath. Few players can do what he can do as a box-to-box midfielder. He’d be a little more pedestrian as a #10.
His style of play would be too forced in the confines of the final third. He’s good in the final third when the situation dictates to get forward.
I’m convinced he’s better when free to come up out of a flat three-man midfield than playing underneath. Few players can do what he can do as a box-to-box midfielder. He’d be a little more pedestrian as a #10.
Well, Matic next to Herrera/McTominay is balanced. With that in mind, I would try Pogba in attacking positions with more freedom. Next season, he should play in a midfield of 3 when we sign better mids
He’s been piss poor lately. Love the player but he’s been garbage.
Maybe he’s not a classic #10 but I wouldn’t write off going giving him a run here. At the very least worth experimenting with when top 4 is secure.
Not sure what Jose’s plans are for CM recruitment but Pogba will need new players around him to flourish consistently as a #8. Otherwise him or Mourinho should go - no point wasting them if they cannot work together.
Maybe he’s not a classic #10 but I wouldn’t write off going giving him a run here. At the very least worth experimenting with when top 4 is secure.
Not sure what Jose’s plans are for CM recruitment but Pogba will need new players around him to flourish consistently as a #8. Otherwise him or Mourinho should go - no point wasting them if they cannot work together.
I still think He can do a very good job playing in a 2 man midfield but the question is does He want it? to put in consistent performances week after week?
Part of me thinks He still prefers to play on the left hand side of a three man midfield.
Part of me thinks He still prefers to play on the left hand side of a three man midfield.
We only need one defensive midfielder.
The team is tied up with this defending/bus parking crap.
That would push Pogba further forward.
The team is tied up with this defending/bus parking crap.
That would push Pogba further forward.
Agreed. We can debate all we like on here, but unless he fits in with Mou's plans and adheres to his tactics he will be gone in the summer. I think with being dropped and no deteriation to the team, maybe on the cards for a swap deal with one of the big teams.We pay £90m for him and after nearly two seasons...we still don't know his best position in the team....hmmhhh
Pogba is best as the most attacking option in a 3 men CM. At Juventus he had a world class deep lying playmaker and a defensive box to box midfielder at his side. The EPL is tougher so I guess Matic and Jorginho will be needed.
Most advanced midfielder with a lot more freedom. That is when he showed his best form at Juve and why he cost 100m
..........martial.....rome
......pogba..............alexis
...........matic....mctominay
4222
......pogba..............alexis
...........matic....mctominay
4222
In your argument, we are really talking about 433 with Pogba in front of 2 DMF, because in tough games when the game is still tie, you expect your #10 to drop back and harass their DMF instead of playing in the final 3rd.
Pogba has the physical attributes and the technical skill to play and be brilliant in almost any midfield role. The fact he's not playing that well currently is more down to bad form on his part and/or the team not playing that well as a whole.
I might be thick, but isn't Pogba a box to box player. Not a 6 or a 10? United need a guy like Vidal and a guy like Pirlo to complement him. Any thoughts?
A number 10 needs positional discipline and good movement to move into space between the lines of the opposition midfield and defence, Pogba is no where near smart enough to do that.
I agree, NO, definitely not.
Jose must sort out the best position/setup for Pogba. He wanted him so badly that we paid a record amount for him, he must've had some idea or plan in mind before he bought Pogba, but then again maybe not. By the look of things the same can be said for the Sanchez purchase.
It shouldn't be a case of letting Pogba try every position to make sure he is on the pitch.
The bold bit I really don't understand but it is happening, Linguard before Mata as a number 10, crazy, you would expect you want pace on the wing and technical ability at the number 10 position, but not Jose. Again square pegs in round holes.
No point making any long term plans based around Pogba imo.
No idea tbh
It seems we have to go two options:
1. Give Pogba license to just do what he wants, freedom to get forward and float around the pitch and create. Supported by two other midfielders of varying defensive attributes (Matic, a new midfielder). I’m inclined to go with this as it best fits Pogba. Would this indicate that Pogba wins between him and Jose? Will Jose accept this?
2. Force Pogba into a specific role, be that in a 2 or whatever. Jose sticks to his guns and Pogba has to learn to play a defined role - albeit one that still attempts to play to his strengths. Potential to end up in tears.
I’m all for the manager should rule but 1 seems the best option. Not because it’s a stupid Pogba v Jose thing (which Jose seems to be turning it into), or that we’re letting Pogba off or whatever (although it kinda is) but because it’s his best role - simple.
None of it’s straightforward due to the personalities involved.
It seems we have to go two options:
1. Give Pogba license to just do what he wants, freedom to get forward and float around the pitch and create. Supported by two other midfielders of varying defensive attributes (Matic, a new midfielder). I’m inclined to go with this as it best fits Pogba. Would this indicate that Pogba wins between him and Jose? Will Jose accept this?
2. Force Pogba into a specific role, be that in a 2 or whatever. Jose sticks to his guns and Pogba has to learn to play a defined role - albeit one that still attempts to play to his strengths. Potential to end up in tears.
I’m all for the manager should rule but 1 seems the best option. Not because it’s a stupid Pogba v Jose thing (which Jose seems to be turning it into), or that we’re letting Pogba off or whatever (although it kinda is) but because it’s his best role - simple.
None of it’s straightforward due to the personalities involved.
The funny thing was that in our last game, Jose was telling our players to push forward and attack. Apparently in training they spent 2 days working on attack, yet the players seemed reluctant to attack and more comfortable parking the bus.
So, you want to allow Pogba to basically do whatever the hell he wants.
This will certainly include more attacks...which is good.
Unfortunately, it also means that when an opponent runs past him, he'll just give up and stop running, while expecting our defenders or DMs to deal with the defensive work.
Pogba is supposed to be a super athlete. And by all accounts, he is. IMO, he should be the guy covering the most distance in our team and right now, he isn't doing this.
With his current mentality, I would never allow him a free role. He isn't good enough. Grafters like Sanchez can be given a free role, because you know that they are going to put in a shift, no matter what. They won't go missing. They won't give up. They will fight tooth and nail for their team and this is why Jose loves grafters like Rashford, Lingard, Fellaini, Lukaku - these guys will run themselves into the ground if necessary.
Pogba is a midfield player in name only he no Scholes, Pirlo or Keane he needs those sort of players to put in a shift so he can look good.
We're playing with 2 DMs though so its no surprise they can't get forward the only route out is long, Mata or the full backs. We have a lack of central options.
The funny thing was that in our last game, Jose was telling our players to push forward and attack. Apparently in training they spent 2 days working on attack, yet the players seemed reluctant to attack and more comfortable parking the bus.
Exactly. A number 10, or even a top centre midfield player, pretty much knows what they're going to do with the ball before they receive it. Pogba, despite his undoubted ability with ball at his feet, doesn't have this; or at least he doesn't have it to a high enough level. It amazes me that some people think he's going to acquire it, as if by magic, as long as he's played there.
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I suppose so. If you look at Jose's tactics most fans don't believe in his tactics, let alone a professional footballer, so I can't really blame Pogba.
In a midfield of 3 with him ( Pogba) being more forward.
Hell no! He is utter crap in the number 10 role
Yeah, really looked like they trained hard.
The funny thing was that in our last game, Jose was telling our players to push forward and attack. Apparently in training they spent 2 days working on attack, yet the players seemed reluctant to attack and more comfortable parking the bus.
The problem with me say only one defensive midfielder, is that our defence really isn’t reliable/good enough.
It wasn't parking the bus, it was the front 4 players (plus the 2 wingback) were very comfortable with their current spot, pity without any sofa, watching the football game. Nobody was running into empty space, or creating space for others. Hence the MF had to made back pass or sideway because any forward pass would go straight to the opposition.
The funny thing was that in our last game, Jose was telling our players to push forward and attack. Apparently in training they spent 2 days working on attack, yet the players seemed reluctant to attack and more comfortable parking the bus.
As I stated in another post, I could understand Valencia, Young, Lukaku, Matic were tired, but no excuse for Mata, Lingard, Martial.
Ive forever thought of him as a hybrid 10/8. I say play him as a 10. I really dont think this is a complicated issue. Anyone who watched his time at Juve could see what he had behind him.
Let him be free, let him express himself.
Let him be free, let him express himself.
he can't play in a 2 with Matic against any kind of decent team. They both need to play in a 3. Matic hasn't got the legs to go with midfield runners. The only way Pogba plays in a 2 is if we sign an all action box to box mid with 3 lungs. Matic needs a midfield 3 nearly as much as Pogba.
No. Absolutely fecking no. We don't need two defensive midfielders. Such a waste of a player. We need another player who can dovetail with Pogba, beat a man, receive the ball under pressure and play a forward pass. We're Manchester United, we should no way have two DMs in a starting 11. No.
We are trying really hard to fit him in the squad, don't we? Fact is, he is not very good at any position, that's the problem and a complete liability in terms of positioning.Definitely. I have mentioned this formation in many of the threads before but i don't mind sharing it again,
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Lindelof Shaw
Mctominay Matic
Pogba
Mata Lukaku/Rashford Martial/Sanchez
This can definitely work if not for Jose D:
You could consider that if he scored more goals or looked like a player who could score more goals. Little evidence of it during his time at United.
He's a midfielder for all intents and purposes. Just needs to round his game off a bit.
He's a midfielder for all intents and purposes. Just needs to round his game off a bit.
In some games, especially against the top teams, would like to see Pogba as #8 in front of two CDMs #6.
-------Pogba------------
--Matic---McTominay--
Basically formation like 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, 3 man midfield, no #10 CAM.
-------Pogba------------
--Matic---McTominay--
Basically formation like 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, 3 man midfield, no #10 CAM.
- MaTominic to cover Paul defensively when he fails to follow runners.
- Balance enough, both in attacks and defends.
- In attack, Paul to freely drive forward from deep and free attacking role.
No Pogba should not be playing as a #10, and no we should not be playing with two defensive midfielders.
We should be looking directly at how Juve set up, not just in the sense that it did seem to get the most out of Pogba, but more importantly it should give us the best balance.
One actual defensive midfielder, one playmaker who controlled the team around and who also does a decent amount of defending (I wouldn't mind someone slightly more offensive than Pirlo who Juve used), and Pogba able to pick and choose his moments a bit more without having the pressure of being the main playmaker. Those two together (plus Matic of course as the main defensive midfielder) then allow us to actually control the game a hell of a lot better than one of them by themselves, and maximizes Pogba's ability to drive the ball forward and join the attack without leaving us as easy to play through as we are with Pogba as one of the two.
We have Pogba, we have Matic, now we need that playmaker to make the midfield tick.
We should be looking directly at how Juve set up, not just in the sense that it did seem to get the most out of Pogba, but more importantly it should give us the best balance.
One actual defensive midfielder, one playmaker who controlled the team around and who also does a decent amount of defending (I wouldn't mind someone slightly more offensive than Pirlo who Juve used), and Pogba able to pick and choose his moments a bit more without having the pressure of being the main playmaker. Those two together (plus Matic of course as the main defensive midfielder) then allow us to actually control the game a hell of a lot better than one of them by themselves, and maximizes Pogba's ability to drive the ball forward and join the attack without leaving us as easy to play through as we are with Pogba as one of the two.
We have Pogba, we have Matic, now we need that playmaker to make the midfield tick.
It makes me wonder how good a player he actually is if he needs two world class defensive midfielders (and a solid central defence) before he can function effectively. Maybe he was just really lucky to have those things at Juve and that's why he looked so good.
His performance for France is a good indicator. He is talented but needs a team to be built around him for him to be in peak form.
He needs to adjust his mentality and realise he needs to do the defensive stuff or he'll prove why SAF was right all along.
For me, Pogba's strengths offensively are: (a) driving forward with the ball (one of the best at this); (b) spraying passes to forwards (not very consistent, but still better than most); and (c) long-range shooting (hasn't resulted in many goals, but always gives the opposition something to worry about I guess).
He needs space ahead of him to do any these things, so his long term position has to be as a central midfielder, and definitely not a no. 10.
The problem is, if he plays in a midfield 3, he would be solely responsible for creating chances (given the midfielders we have at the moment) and he does not create enough. It's not a criticism of his abilities - if you are relying on driving the ball into space and see what happens, you will only get so many chances per game given how organised most teams are. And if you are the runner and passer in the midfield, counter attacks tend to be ineffective as well.
If he plays in a midfield 2, we can have an attacking midfielder who completes Pogba's strengths. But then what is he responsible for defensively? If he has to hold tactical shape, then he can't risk going forward when the opposition has organised themselves behind the ball, for fear of counter attacks (not that he has shown the tactical maturity to do this when necessary). If he has a more liberated role, can Matic realistically be expected to keep it together by himself?
It wouldn't be such a dilemma if we had a midfielder whose main strengths are breaking down packed defences and probing passes intelligently to give Pogba space to exploit, and is disciplined enough to control a smaller zone of influence next to Matic, so that Pogba can use his ball-winning skills without the team losing its shape. Someone with the midfield intelligence of Mata and the basic positional sense of McTominay/Fellaini/Herrera would be lovely.
Unfortunately, until we find someone like that, it would be difficult to fit him into the midfield without upsetting the team balance. Perhaps he needs to play in a different position until the end of the season as a stopgap. He has the right attributes to be an all-action right midfielder. It's a bit stupid, but I'd rather not leave him out (whether it's fair on Lingard and Mata is another question). We can pretend it's a diamond to protect everyone's precious ego:
---------------------------Lukaku----------
--Martial/Rashford-------------------------
-----------------Sanchez/Mata-------------
-------------------------------------Pogba--
--------------Matic-----McTominay---------
He needs space ahead of him to do any these things, so his long term position has to be as a central midfielder, and definitely not a no. 10.
The problem is, if he plays in a midfield 3, he would be solely responsible for creating chances (given the midfielders we have at the moment) and he does not create enough. It's not a criticism of his abilities - if you are relying on driving the ball into space and see what happens, you will only get so many chances per game given how organised most teams are. And if you are the runner and passer in the midfield, counter attacks tend to be ineffective as well.
If he plays in a midfield 2, we can have an attacking midfielder who completes Pogba's strengths. But then what is he responsible for defensively? If he has to hold tactical shape, then he can't risk going forward when the opposition has organised themselves behind the ball, for fear of counter attacks (not that he has shown the tactical maturity to do this when necessary). If he has a more liberated role, can Matic realistically be expected to keep it together by himself?
It wouldn't be such a dilemma if we had a midfielder whose main strengths are breaking down packed defences and probing passes intelligently to give Pogba space to exploit, and is disciplined enough to control a smaller zone of influence next to Matic, so that Pogba can use his ball-winning skills without the team losing its shape. Someone with the midfield intelligence of Mata and the basic positional sense of McTominay/Fellaini/Herrera would be lovely.
Unfortunately, until we find someone like that, it would be difficult to fit him into the midfield without upsetting the team balance. Perhaps he needs to play in a different position until the end of the season as a stopgap. He has the right attributes to be an all-action right midfielder. It's a bit stupid, but I'd rather not leave him out (whether it's fair on Lingard and Mata is another question). We can pretend it's a diamond to protect everyone's precious ego:
---------------------------Lukaku----------
--Martial/Rashford-------------------------
-----------------Sanchez/Mata-------------
-------------------------------------Pogba--
--------------Matic-----McTominay---------
Play a 4-3-3 with Pogba playing further forward (roaming). We did not need Sanchez, we needed a RW.