Better than nothing. He is staying, but at least not for 2 years.
Should Wenger be sacked?
- Thread starter VP89
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But Arsenal didn't beat any of the top 20 teams in Europe to make it into the R16.
So this isn't really consistent.
Do you really think Arsenal beating just Ludogroets and Basel is more impressive than the string of teams beaten by Ajax, United, Liverpool and Sevilla the last two years to make it to the EL final?
I find winning a few group stage matches against the likes of Ludogroets not as impressive as making it to the EL final beating several better teams than Ludogroets.
Nah it has nothing to do with Spurs mate.
It's very odd analogy to put it mildly. You can't compare EURO/Copa to domestic championship as both are the 2nd best international cups. It makes absolutely no sense. One is a league the other is a knockout tournament.
I don't think any Arsenal fan will share your opinion tho if you think they would have better season than us if we win EL tonight.
Because you will get CL qualification. Or maybe some Arsenal fans would share your view, I don't know, but in my eyes EL has always been a competition where the teams who aren't good enough to qualify for the knock out competition battle to be 'best of the rest'. And I've always felt that the EL winners haven't been better in Europe than any of the teams that reach the knock out stage of the CL.It's very odd analogy to put it mildly. You can't compare EURO/Copa to domestic championship as both are the 2nd best international cups. It makes absolutely no sense. One is a league the other is a knockout tournament.
I don't think any Arsenal fan will share your opinion tho if you think they would have better season than us if we win EL tonight.
How would you judge European European campaigns in club football then? CL Winners > EL winners > CL runners up and so on?
It's a good point, but for me the more impressive accomplishment is sometimes difficult to judge. And even though it may be so that it's more difficult to win the EL than being beat by Bayern Munic in the first knockout stage, I'd say it's more difficult to beat Bayern Munic than beating the teams you've beat to win the EL as well. What if Arsenal had a tight game with Bayern? Would they have been more impressive then for you? Would it change anything? Interesting point, and difficult to say, but for me, the way UEFA structure their two competitions do in fact judge the third best team from the CL groups to go down to the EL, while the two best teams go on to the knock out stages and are therefore 'too good' for the EL. This is the point I was making.
Heh, it all depends on the club and its expectations
For example, for me, finishing 5th in the league and losing 10-2 in the CL round of 16 is worse than finishing 6th and winning domestic cup+EL...in the same way that eating dog s*it is worse than drinking human piss
Both are massive failures
Given the choice of finishing 2nd in the league with 112 points on GD and losing cup final and CL final on penalties would be a much better season than finishing 6th and win cup+EL
For example, for me, finishing 5th in the league and losing 10-2 in the CL round of 16 is worse than finishing 6th and winning domestic cup+EL...in the same way that eating dog s*it is worse than drinking human piss
Both are massive failures
Given the choice of finishing 2nd in the league with 112 points on GD and losing cup final and CL final on penalties would be a much better season than finishing 6th and win cup+EL
For the first part I disagree Leicester is a prime example this year. I don't think they are any better this year than Celta for example.
Yes that's about right.
CL winners of course is the best with a massive difference, but then comes EL winners and then the rest. As a United fan I don't think being in the CL SF's is some spectacular achievement tbh.
Fair enough, guess we'll just have to disagree then
I'd be happier if we reached the semifinals in the CL next year than winning the EL, but I can understand that you feel differently. Good luck tonight anyway, it's a massive game!
Cheers mate, thanks!Fair enough, guess we'll just have to disagree then
I'd be happier if we reached the semifinals in the CL next year than winning the EL, but I can understand that you feel differently. Good luck tonight anyway, it's a massive game!
To be honest for Spurs it's certainly better the other way around, but for me and United IMO silverware always wins even if it is not the absolutely top competition.
Unless you're a club like Leicester, no one is going to look back in 10 years and talk about that time you got to the latter stages of the CL. People remember winning finals, that's what makes history. If we win tonight we'll have another trophy to add to our long list. Under Spurs' list of achievements for 2017 there won't be "finished 2nd in the league and qualified from their group in the CL", it'll just be an empty space. If you'd rather have that then fair enough, enjoy it.Fair enough, guess we'll just have to disagree then
I'd be happier if we reached the semifinals in the CL next year than winning the EL, but I can understand that you feel differently. Good luck tonight anyway, it's a massive game!
I think the reality is that recently all England teams have flattered to deceive in the champions league. beating poor opposition then getting knocked out by the first decent team you play is to the credit of no one. It will take a successfully rebuilt Mourinho or Pep team to really challenge to win it, maybe Conte's Chelsea team but honestly it seems more built to grind down PL teams than beat Juventus, Bayern, Barcelona & Real.
Spurs or Arsenal are really only making up the numbers unless they invest which I doubt they will
Spurs or Arsenal are really only making up the numbers unless they invest which I doubt they will
How can teams that qualify for Round of 16 are better than the team that gets knocked out in group stages without taking the difficulty of opposition into context? For example, Gladbach and Celtic faced Barca and City, whereas
Arsenal faced Basel and Ludogorets,
Benfica faced Besiktas and Dynamo
Dortmund/Madrid faced Legia and Sporting
Leicester and Porto faced Copenhagen and Brugge
Sevilla faced Lyon and Zagreb.
So Celtic and Gladbach had to face tougher teams than other teams that qualified for R16, same thing can be said about Sporting who had to face Dortmund and Madrid.
Yeah, that's a fair point, but difficult to measure. We can say the same about the team who got beat in the last 16 by the team who eventually win the final. It's inevitable in cup competitions and why a league is a more accurate measure imo.
I don't think any one said ManUtd have better team than the teams that finished higher, it's ManUtd had better season which is very obvious IMO.
I fail to see how that's obvious at all, and for me you've had the 4th best season of all English teams. I understand how that opinion isn't that popular on here, but I've simply put forward my view on why I think that way, and just like you have done, stated why you think the way you do. Not a big deal though
And next season it's all to win once again.Obvious for everyone except bitter fans mate.
Won 2 competitions, knockout as well, despite losing some very important first teamers near the end of the season. But yer finishing second or third or fourth is better
Who are the other 3 teams that had better seasons. Obvious is Chelsea, other 2?I fail to see how that's obvious at all, and for me you've had the 4th best season of all English teams. I understand how that opinion isn't that popular on here, but I've simply put forward my view on why I think that way, and just like you have done, stated why you think the way you do. Not a big deal though
Yeah, Won 2 out of 4 competitions we entered, it's a very good return.
I'll probably end up regretting writing this, but for me all teams in the knockout stages of the CL had a better European campaign than any EL team, including the winners. This is because in the CL group stages, the best teams progress into the knockout stages, and the 3rd placed teams are demoted to the EL. So for me, it is a lower competition just like the Championship is a lower competition to the PL. Claiming the EL winners had a better campaign than teams who got knocked out in the latter stages of the CL is like saying Newcastle had a better domestic campaign than for example Swansea.
With this in mind my personal valuation would be this:
1. Chelsea:
Fantastic domestic league campaign, Great/Decent domestic cup campaign (depending on FA Cup), but were not in Europe
Won the PL convincingly and might win the double. Don't think this is debatable.
2. Spurs /Manchester City:
Manchester City:
Decent league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
They managed to be one of the best 16 teams in Europe, and lost in a competitive game against Monaco who eventually reached the semi finals. An overall okay season despite not really impressing in any competition.
Spurs:
Good league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and bad European campaign.
Played well in the Premier league although they ultimately fell short, lost in the cups to top 6 competition, but completely failed in Europe.
Who had the second best season between Spurs and Man City depend on whether you value CL or the league imo.
4. Manchester United
Bad domestic league campaign, great domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
Won the LC, and also the EL (which makes you imo the 17th most successful team in Europe this season). Two good cup runs in lesser cup competitions that successfully mask over bad league campaign.
5. Liverpool
Acceptable domestic league campaign and bad domestic campaign.
Liverpool just about managed to sneak into the top 4, and got CL places, but failed to impress in 2017 and got knocked out by lower level teams in the cup. Just about saved the season by qualifying for CL.
6. Arsenal.
Bad league campaign, decent/good domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
The only English team who isn't qualified for the CL. And even if they win the FA cup I'd say they have had the worst season, even though they managed to qualify for the last 16 in the CL.
There, hate me all you want.
PS: I understand that you may value different competitions differently than I do, and I'm happy to discuss that. For me this question is purely down to valuation of the EL v CL.
Why not Leicester, they qualified to QFs which is better than any English team in CL, after all playing in CL and qualifying for R16 > Any Europa league or cups.I'll probably end up regretting writing this, but for me all teams in the knockout stages of the CL had a better European campaign than any EL team, including the winners. This is because in the CL group stages, the best teams progress into the knockout stages, and the 3rd placed teams are demoted to the EL. So for me, it is a lower competition just like the Championship is a lower competition to the PL. Claiming the EL winners had a better campaign than teams who got knocked out in the latter stages of the CL is like saying Newcastle had a better domestic campaign than for example Swansea.
With this in mind my personal valuation would be this:
1. Chelsea:
Fantastic domestic league campaign, Great/Decent domestic cup campaign (depending on FA Cup), but were not in Europe
Won the PL convincingly and might win the double. Don't think this is debatable.
2. Spurs /Manchester City:
Manchester City:
Decent league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
They managed to be one of the best 16 teams in Europe, and lost in a competitive game against Monaco who eventually reached the semi finals. An overall okay season despite not really impressing in any competition.
Spurs:
Good league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and bad European campaign.
Played well in the Premier league although they ultimately fell short, lost in the cups to top 6 competition, but completely failed in Europe.
Who had the second best season between Spurs and Man City depend on whether you value CL or the league imo.
4. Manchester United
Bad domestic league campaign, great domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
Won the LC, and also the EL (which makes you imo the 17th most successful team in Europe this season). Two good cup runs in lesser cup competitions that successfully mask over bad league campaign.
5. Liverpool
Acceptable domestic league campaign and bad domestic campaign.
Liverpool just about managed to sneak into the top 4, and got CL places, but failed to impress in 2017 and got knocked out by lower level teams in the cup. Just about saved the season by qualifying for CL.
6. Arsenal.
Bad league campaign, decent/good domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
The only English team who isn't qualified for the CL. And even if they win the FA cup I'd say they have had the worst season, even though they managed to qualify for the last 16 in the CL.
There, hate me all you want.
PS: I understand that you may value different competitions differently than I do, and I'm happy to discuss that. For me this question is purely down to valuation of the EL v CL.
They had a good European campaign imo, but not in the league, they were flirting with relegation and ended up 49 points behind the eventual league winners.
Arsenal had better league season and also qualified for R16, so they should be higher also?
Anyways I'm done, I completely disagree with your points. I'm assuming you are underestimating how difficult it is to win cups and also develop the winning culture.
I'm no fan of Chelsea but I really want them to give Arsenal a real embarassing hammering tomorrow. The Gunners' fans smug attitude towards us (well, until top 4 disappeared and we won the EL final) really wound me up and I can't wait for them to suffer a gigantic meltdown when they realise they've had yet another pointless season, finished 5th and Wenger stays while Sanchez goes.
I stopped reading it, smells bitter as F.I'll probably end up regretting writing this, but for me all teams in the knockout stages of the CL had a better European campaign than any EL team, including the winners. This is because in the CL group stages, the best teams progress into the knockout stages, and the 3rd placed teams are demoted to the EL. So for me, it is a lower competition just like the Championship is a lower competition to the PL. Claiming the EL winners had a better campaign than teams who got knocked out in the latter stages of the CL is like saying Newcastle had a better domestic campaign than for example Swansea.
With this in mind my personal valuation would be this:
1. Chelsea:
Fantastic domestic league campaign, Great/Decent domestic cup campaign (depending on FA Cup), but were not in Europe
Won the PL convincingly and might win the double. Don't think this is debatable.
2. Spurs /Manchester City:
Manchester City:
Decent league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
They managed to be one of the best 16 teams in Europe, and lost in a competitive game against Monaco who eventually reached the semi finals. An overall okay season despite not really impressing in any competition.
Spurs:
Good league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and bad European campaign.
Played well in the Premier league although they ultimately fell short, lost in the cups to top 6 competition, but completely failed in Europe.
Who had the second best season between Spurs and Man City depend on whether you value CL or the league imo.
4. Manchester United
Bad domestic league campaign, great domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
Won the LC, and also the EL (which makes you imo the 17th most successful team in Europe this season). Two good cup runs in lesser cup competitions that successfully mask over bad league campaign.
5. Liverpool
Acceptable domestic league campaign and bad domestic campaign.
Liverpool just about managed to sneak into the top 4, and got CL places, but failed to impress in 2017 and got knocked out by lower level teams in the cup. Just about saved the season by qualifying for CL.
6. Arsenal.
Bad league campaign, decent/good domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
The only English team who isn't qualified for the CL. And even if they win the FA cup I'd say they have had the worst season, even though they managed to qualify for the last 16 in the CL.
There, hate me all you want.
PS: I understand that you may value different competitions differently than I do, and I'm happy to discuss that. For me this question is purely down to valuation of the EL v CL.
There have been examples of poor teams getting to the last 16, arsenal is one example as is Leicester.
In essence your comment is full of it, is it harder to win than the CL obviously not but it's significantly harder to win than domestic cups (of which we also won)
It's a major throphy that had Inter Roma as examples of tough teams as well as hostile away fixtures whilst also having to deal shitty fixture schedules.
Basically get over it
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EL win trumps anything Spurs or City have achieved this season. Particularly as Spurs got dumped out of the competition themselves.
He'd have been fired if there were any decent managers without a job, but currently most are either taken by bigger clubs or haven't proven enough yet.
Of course it is Arsenal so maybe they wouldn't fire him after their continued downfall in terms of their "status". They've done okay trophy wise the past few years but you can tell the quality of players is just declining for them recently. If Sanchez goes it may be the point of no return for Arsene's appeal to players
Of course it is Arsenal so maybe they wouldn't fire him after their continued downfall in terms of their "status". They've done okay trophy wise the past few years but you can tell the quality of players is just declining for them recently. If Sanchez goes it may be the point of no return for Arsene's appeal to players
So bored of the whining smug bastard, how much did Utd have on their backs but still managed to win loads, fecking fed up with his stupid smug interviews like he's the best manager on the planet and everyone is waiting with baited breath to see what he does when in reality most just want him to feck off, can't stand the tw@t, I understand where any negativity comes from with Arse fans, he's fecking infuriating.
He should quit already because since each passing season is getting worst and there hasn't been any tangible progress with him in I don't know how many season and at most he could take them back to top 4 next season but that's just mediocrity as he has been unable to challenge for the league.
Sign that damn contract Wenger. You know you want to beat Fergie's record at one club.
Who is watching Football Focus. Wenger is not holding back against the fans.
You should regret writing it, it's arrant nonsense.I'll probably end up regretting writing this, but for me all teams in the knockout stages of the CL had a better European campaign than any EL team, including the winners. This is because in the CL group stages, the best teams progress into the knockout stages, and the 3rd placed teams are demoted to the EL. So for me, it is a lower competition just like the Championship is a lower competition to the PL. Claiming the EL winners had a better campaign than teams who got knocked out in the latter stages of the CL is like saying Newcastle had a better domestic campaign than for example Swansea.
With this in mind my personal valuation would be this:
1. Chelsea:
Fantastic domestic league campaign, Great/Decent domestic cup campaign (depending on FA Cup), but were not in Europe
Won the PL convincingly and might win the double. Don't think this is debatable.
2. Spurs /Manchester City:
Manchester City:
Decent league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
They managed to be one of the best 16 teams in Europe, and lost in a competitive game against Monaco who eventually reached the semi finals. An overall okay season despite not really impressing in any competition.
Spurs:
Good league campaign, acceptable domestic cup campaign and bad European campaign.
Played well in the Premier league although they ultimately fell short, lost in the cups to top 6 competition, but completely failed in Europe.
Who had the second best season between Spurs and Man City depend on whether you value CL or the league imo.
4. Manchester United
Bad domestic league campaign, great domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
Won the LC, and also the EL (which makes you imo the 17th most successful team in Europe this season). Two good cup runs in lesser cup competitions that successfully mask over bad league campaign.
5. Liverpool
Acceptable domestic league campaign and bad domestic campaign.
Liverpool just about managed to sneak into the top 4, and got CL places, but failed to impress in 2017 and got knocked out by lower level teams in the cup. Just about saved the season by qualifying for CL.
6. Arsenal.
Bad league campaign, decent/good domestic cup campaign and decent European campaign.
The only English team who isn't qualified for the CL. And even if they win the FA cup I'd say they have had the worst season, even though they managed to qualify for the last 16 in the CL.
There, hate me all you want.
PS: I understand that you may value different competitions differently than I do, and I'm happy to discuss that. For me this question is purely down to valuation of the EL v CL.
Wenger just said there's a meeting on Tuesday and his future will be announced on Wednesday or Thursday.
We're the real winners today, one more season at least of Arsene Wenger.
He should go really.
Wenger In!
Should leave with the FA Cup win. It's his trophy, so it'd be a fitting way for him to bow out. I can't see him going out on a bigger high.
I think he'll stay though.
I think he'll stay though.
100% staying
2 More years!
It will be hilarious when the extension is announced.
