Signing Lukaku end of the road of Rashford's (long-term) hopes of being a first-choice striker?

[efraim]

Rashford is not ready to lead our attack. Purchasing Lukaku is exactly what we need, we can't go into the season with just one striker available. If Rashford was our only option and he injure himself, then what the heck do we do?

Rashford is also 19 years old. He has lots of years left if he doesn't suffer from a career ending injury. He is also still in the " learning and improving" phase so Lukaku could teach him a thing or two. If it all goes well Rashford could well lead our attack when Lukaku leaves in a few years.

 

[Handsome Devil]

Get over yourself mate, was just pointing out the weirdness of your 'point'. Like I'd have the time to do 'this arguing thing' with you

Good on you mate! Life is to short to put up with being patronised!

 

[Fully Fledged]

If he's good enough he will get game time both on the wings and down the middle. Lukaku won't play every minute of every game there is plenty of season to go around.

 

[adexkola]

He certainly didn't play lone striker until that point, IIRC he was played behind Van nistelrooy (2004-2006), and Saha (2006/07), then when Tevez arrived he was Left forward/winger with Ronaldo on the right.

He didn't play lone striker, but that's not what your post I quoted alluded to. He was absolutely a striker (albeit behind Ruud or Saha, because of how he pulled our attack together)

 

[roonster09]

My point is, he's more likely to replace Lukaku by leaving and starting in his favorite position elsewhere. Morata who you mentioned started a lot of games for Juventus. Costa repaid the faith shown by Simeone when he was played up front. I don't buy this nonsense about him needing to bide his time on the wing. He's not a winger. He's a striker and he needs games. He needs to consider the possibility that we are not the best location for HIM right now, the same way many people believe that starting him at United is not the best situation for the club.

Then maybe if he turns out decent at Southampton, we get fleeced to the tune of 63 million pounds to bring him back.

I didn't say Rashford should play on wings to develop his game, I said he improved his game playing as winger. He has only 1 position to play regularly that's as LW. If Lukaku fails to step up then he might get chance but as of now he is just 19/20 and he isn't first choice player. He will play as LW and few games as striker, that's how it is as we have clinical striker leading the line for us now.

At least he knows at big club there is always competition for places so don't think he will leave anytime soon.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Good on you mate! Life is to short to put up with being patronised!

By condescending twats, I agree mate

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Messi pretty much ousted Ronaldinho ffs. Doesn't matter how good the current guy is, if you prove you're better, you play.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Messi pretty much ousted Ronaldinho ffs. Doesn't matter how good the current guy is, if you prove you're better, you play.

It really is this simple but our fans are too precious with our youth players to accept it. I'm beginning to think our fans don't want better players signed in the same position with youth players because they are actually scared the said youth player is not that good and will be immediately overshadowed by the signing. Why else would anybody be 'worried' that a player they think is so amazing won't be able to break into the team ahead of any signing? I remember Soldado was still a fresh big money signing when Kane came through, but the manager simply had to play him because he was simply the best striker in the club

 

[Mr Smith]

Rashford has shown from the moment he broke into the team that he is mentally tough. I'm sure he'll consider the arrival of Lukaku a challenge to up his game, and a challenge he will face willingly. And he does offer some things Lukaku doesn't, including a great work rate.

Not something to worry about at this stage, Rashford not yet 20 and has the world at his feet.

 

[KanieKaned]

Rashford is what? 19? Lukaku is 24. He has plenty of time. I don't know why people panic over him so much, really, especially when we play 60-odd games a season. Ultimately he's not nearly ready to be a first choice striker here so it shouldn't be a concern.

Same thread popped up last season when he signed Ibra, and Rashford still got loads of gametime.

I just cannot for the life of me agree with this more. Rashford has tons of time, he is extremely level headed and I cannot imagine him expecting to be the first choice striker at this stage of his career. Im sure even Lukaku himself is being level headed in believing he is going to have to fight for the striker slot in our team. Nobody bar DDG is guaranteed to be on the team sheet on a weekly basis and even then DDG will not play every single game. Competition for places is essential to pushing players to give 100% and better themselves. Lest we forget we used to have 4 cracking forwards with Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer? They call this squad depth. I personally am delighted that we have 2 young and very promising players in that department.

 

[Mr Smith]

It really is this simple but our fans are too precious with our youth players to accept it. I'm beginning to think our fans don't want better players signed in the same position with youth players because they are actually scared the said youth player is not that good and will be immediately overshadowed by the signing. Why else would anybody be 'worried' that a player they think is so amazing won't be able to break into the team ahead of any signing? I remember Soldado was still a fresh big money signing when Kane came through, but the manager simply had to play him because he was simply the best striker in the club

This is a little one-sided. I agree that we shouldn't wrap our young players up in cotton wool and give them multiple chances they haven't earned (and we should certainly still sign players to compete), but at the same time young players are inconsistent by nature, so not writing them off early on is vital. I think its perfectly fair to be worried that a talented youngster could be frozen out, not get time to establish himself, get sold, and then explode somewhere else.

I think ultimately the answer is somewhere in between; you give a young player his chances without outright indulging him. Martial I think will be a classic case study this season; exploded in his first year, had a mixed second season where he had to learn a lot and accept some criticism. Now we will see whether his character is strong enough for him to overcome his difficulties last season and prove himself good enough for us (because we already know the talent is there). Rashford is in a similar position, except that I think the difference is that he's already shown himself to be mentally tough, but the question is whether he can rise to become better than the player we've signed to compete with him (Lukaku).

 

[dove]

Imagine going into the season with Rashford and Martial as main strikers I bet we would finish with record low goals scored.

 

[bosnian_red]

As others have mentioned, we should worry about whats best for us as a club. If a player is good enough, they'll force their way in. Rashford is years away from being good enoguh and who knows if he ever will be. Up to him to prove it rather then have a spot reserved.

 

[NoPace]

Considering that England have Kane and Alli (who is effectively a 10) up top and only Sterling as a wide talent, I could see Rashford being happy enough to be a wide goalscorer, especially since he hasn't been a 9 his whole life like a lot of strikers.

Martial---Lukaku----Rashford
----Pogba-------CM-----------
----------Herrera--------------

is still our likeliest 2020 team I would say, at which point Rashford will only be 22.

And right now, I would guess England's best team might even include Rashford on the wing:

--------Kane--------
Sterling----Rashford
--Lallana--Alli-------
-------Dier-----------

Although I guess you could play Lallana wide and a 4-4-2 with the Spurs guys up top and give Dier a real partner, though England aren't exactly crawling with central midfielders of real quality.

 

[adexkola]

As others have mentioned, we should worry about whats best for us as a club. If a player is good enough, they'll force their way in. Rashford is years away from being good enoguh and who knows if he ever will be. Up to him to prove it rather then have a spot reserved.

He won't get good enough by sitting on the bench. No one gets good enough by sitting on the bench. If he wants to start as a striker for us in the future, he may have to move to a club where he has a starting spot.

 

[bosnian_red]

He won't get good enough by sitting on the bench. No one gets good enough by sitting on the bench. If he wants to start as a striker for us in the future, he may have to move to a club where he has a starting spot.

Maybe he does. Maybe he can develop as a sub or playing elsewhere and rotating up top. But he sure as hell isnt good enough yet to be a starting striker for a big team, especially not in the situation we're in.

Its easier to develop as a striker these days I think if a team plays with 2 up top anyway. That way they can share the goal scoring burden with the other guy, so thats an option. But more often then not, they have to go to a smaller team. Mbappe is pretty much the only striker who has really broken through and instantly made a big name for himself and had a great scoring record right away. And even there, monaco pretty much play a 442. Kane had a few loan spells and then took his chance when others were injured. All the others in the last few years broke through in smaller teams, on loans or just through being squad players over the years and developed slowly. Cant think of a single big team just taking a risk on any young striker and making him the main striker going into a season. Its basically setting yourself up for failure. Especially not one who is as "raw" as rashford is, with his main qualities still being his pace but still being pretty unproductive for the most part.

 

[bosnian_red]

Considering that England have Kane and Alli (who is effectively a 10) up top and only Sterling as a wide talent, I could see Rashford being happy enough to be a wide goalscorer, especially since he hasn't been a 9 his whole life like a lot of strikers.

Martial---Lukaku----Rashford
----Pogba-------CM-----------
----------Herrera--------------

is still our likeliest 2020 team I would say, at which point Rashford will only be 22.

And right now, I would guess England's best team might even include Rashford on the wing:

--------Kane--------
Sterling----Rashford
--Lallana--Alli-------
-------Dier-----------

Although I guess you could play Lallana wide and a 4-4-2 with the Spurs guys up top and give Dier a real partner, though England aren't exactly crawling with central midfielders of real quality.

Its been done to death but rashford is pretty shit on the wing and has been just about every time he plays there. I always felt with him that he would be best in a 4-4-2 as one of the 2, ahead of someone like what rooney used to be. He doesnt have the physique to play alone and is bullied off the ball way too easily, so you need someone else to handle the physical aspect while he makes the runs in behind. So up top with Kane is an option for england or lukaku for united, but that unbalances the rest of the team and isnt worth it because there are better players elsewhere.

 

[Android1974]

I just cannot for the life of me agree with this more. Rashford has tons of time, he is extremely level headed and I cannot imagine him expecting to be the first choice striker at this stage of his career. Im sure even Lukaku himself is being level headed in believing he is going to have to fight for the striker slot in our team. Nobody bar DDG is guaranteed to be on the team sheet on a weekly basis and even then DDG will not play every single game. Competition for places is essential to pushing players to give 100% and better themselves. Lest we forget we used to have 4 cracking forwards with Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer? They call this squad depth. I personally am delighted that we have 2 young and very promising players in that department.

Valencia, Herrera, Pogba, Rashford, Lukaku.

 

[adexkola]

Maybe he does. Maybe he can develop as a sub or playing elsewhere and rotating up top. But he sure as hell isnt good enough yet to be a starting striker for a big team, especially not in the situation we're in.

Its easier to develop as a striker these days I think if a team plays with 2 up top anyway. That way they can share the goal scoring burden with the other guy, so thats an option. But more often then not, they have to go to a smaller team. Mbappe is pretty much the only striker who has really broken through and instantly made a big name for himself and had a great scoring record right away. And even there, monaco pretty much play a 442. Kane had a few loan spells and then took his chance when others were injured. All the others in the last few years broke through in smaller teams, on loans or just through being squad players over the years and developed slowly. Cant think of a single big team just taking a risk on any young striker and making him the main striker going into a season. Its basically setting yourself up for failure. Especially not one who is as "raw" as rashford is, with his main qualities still being his pace but still being pretty unproductive for the most part.

I wouldn't be averse to giving him that spot, but I understand why many feel differently.

I just don't see why Rashford's agent isn't in his ear encouraging him to look for another club. It may be the best move for all parties.

 

[NoPace]

Its been done to death but rashford is pretty shit on the wing and has been just about every time he plays there. I always felt with him that he would be best in a 4-4-2 as one of the 2, ahead of someone like what rooney used to be. He doesnt have the physique to play alone and is bullied off the ball way too easily, so you need someone else to handle the physical aspect while he makes the runs in behind. So up top with Kane is an option for england or lukaku for united, but that unbalances the rest of the team and isnt worth it because there are better players elsewhere.

I agree with this completely, and it's why I think basically all central attackers are overrated and all wingers are underrated (just like how in basketball, 3pt shooting was underrated for years until statistics and analysis got better, like it presumably will eventually in football, though I think it'll take awhile).

But I also think Rashford is 19, has pace and long shooting (and crossing) ability and isn't embarassing defensively out wide, so if he can figure out the position, is it crazy to think he can be a winger who scores goals consistently, like a better version of Son at Spurs or Callejon at Napoli?

We just saw Mandzukic have a pretty important season as an LW at Juve and Mourinho won the treble with Etoo and Pandev as his wingers. I wouldn't rule him out. 19 is really young.

I wouldn't mind if we played 4-4-2 a fair bit his year in the league, actually, even though I think it's generally better to play with 3 and we should long-term build around Pogba. I don't think we'll sign more than one CM this summer so that means we'll really only have 3 quality CMs anyways, so only starting 2 each games makes sense, and I could see one of Rashford or Martial having an impressive season running around up top and Mata, Mkhitaryan and i guess Perisic doing a good enough job out wide. I think it'll take a lot of points to win the title next year and most likely we'll fall short from not scoring enough goals anyways.

 

[ti vu]

I am not saying we did the wrong thing, far from it.. read my previous posts, I was crying out for a striker in his prime, which we have got with Lukaku. Although I have slight reservations about him prior to signing him, in terms of profile and age etc.. fantastic common sense signing, so I am all for it. I hope he's a huge success and proves his doubters wrong (me included).

This is just a discussion about what will happen to Rashford?

Rashford is quite young, he shouldn't be too burdened with carrying the team. We compete in many different competitions which under Mourinho, we should be pushing our chance to win as many as possible. It's impossible for a first choice to play all games, so there would be plenty of game time for Rash & Martial. Mourinho adapts his tactic so while Lukaku may be our main forward, there are situations that Rashfor/ Martial would fit better thus they're given chance if they work. In long run, it's hard to predict, but having healthy competition (working to better your competitions). That goes for Lukaku too. Lukaku we know thus far is not even world class (IMO), so there is every chance for Rashford & Martial to catch up & surpass him if he (Lukaku) himself doesn't keep better himself. It's good to have this kind of competition

 

[kouroux]

I wouldn't be averse to giving him that spot, but I understand why many feel differently.

I just don't see why Rashford's agent isn't in his ear encouraging him to look for another club. It may be the best move for all parties.

What ? The agent isn't stupid, he probably waits for a more accomplished season before whispering in Rashford's ears.

 

[kouroux]

Right now, and over the next few seasons it isn't an issue. My point is however that Lukaku is merely 24. If he turns into a Drogba, and assuming he's even better aged 27-31.. then by that age Rashford will be aged 23-26 and will still be a winger/occasional striker and will that be good for him, will that satisfy him. It is the long term question I am discussing here.. for the next few seasons, there is no issue. But it is a ticking time bomb IMO.

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. In a few years, if Rashford is good enough to be the main striker he will be and if he isn't but still wants it and even complains about it, he'll just get sold like any other player at any other club. Basically if he is good enough he'll become the main striker and if he isn't then tough luck for him, either accept your limits or feck off.

 

[Smores]

This is a bit oversensitive he has to compete with one other striker ffs. It's a better opportunity than most get at his age. He'll play plenty and if he proves himself Lukaku will find himself on the bench

 

[MuFc_1992]

Lukaku is barely United quality(still happy we got him because there aren't any quality options out there) IMO so, Rashford will have no hope of starting for us unless he surpasses Lukaku. What I mean to say is there will be better options available in the market in the coming years so I'm pretty sure we'll get someone better than Lukaku if we have that option.

 

[Oscie]

I swear people who use the term 'United quality' live in some kind of fantasy land where for the last 30 years we've been successful by signing a succession of Ronaldos.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

No.

The mantle is on both Lukaku, to maintain being first choice striker, and Rashford, to improve a lot, impress and steal it.

Forms will fluctuates, there will be a lot of opportunities for Rashford to prove it, and Mourinho will vary his tactics using different striker selection choices against different opponents. Under Mourinho, the first choice striker depends on high no. of goals scored (not necessarily eg. Drogba), contributions to the whole team in attacks and defense (often having both strength and speed is ideal), and good attitude plus high work-rate.

In the long run, Lukaku will have to maintain those and impress Mourinho enough with his work-rate, while obviously Rash have to improve his goals by a lot and his hold-up play among many others. One thing for certain, Mourinho is impress and very fond of Rash especially his attitude, so that is very big, seems to me like Rash is close enough in his eye. Last season towards the end, in many games Rashford's inconsistencies and ineffectiveness leading the line is proven enough he's not yet ready.

Relax~ Long term, Rashford can be the first choice striker.

 

[dove]

He won't get good enough by sitting on the bench. No one gets good enough by sitting on the bench. If he wants to start as a striker for us in the future, he may have to move to a club where he has a starting spot.

What do you mean sitting on the bench? He was 8th in minutes played last season and we saw what happened when Ibra got injured. We played Rashford up front and our attack was completely dead. He is 19 and he will get plenty of game time this season. The idea of relying on him as our main striker is just unbelievably ridiculous, I am so glad we signed Lukaku who guarantees goals.

 

[MUFC OK]

He didn't play lone striker, but that's not what your post I quoted alluded to. He was absolutely a striker (albeit behind Ruud or Saha, because of how he pulled our attack together)

As I said, think he was deployed more as a left sided forward, but now theres an obsession of having one striker and that it. In any case it shouldn't be a choice between Rashford and Lukaku, they are both here for the long term so we need to find a system to accomodate both.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

With Rom, Rashford and Martial we have 3 great quick striking options. There are so many games this season they will all see plenty of action.

 

[fellaini's barber]

This is a little one-sided. I agree that we shouldn't wrap our young players up in cotton wool and give them multiple chances they haven't earned (and we should certainly still sign players to compete), but at the same time young players are inconsistent by nature, so not writing them off early on is vital. I think its perfectly fair to be worried that a talented youngster could be frozen out, not get time to establish himself, get sold, and then explode somewhere else.

I think ultimately the answer is somewhere in between; you give a young player his chances without outright indulging him. Martial I think will be a classic case study this season; exploded in his first year, had a mixed second season where he had to learn a lot and accept some criticism. Now we will see whether his character is strong enough for him to overcome his difficulties last season and prove himself good enough for us (because we already know the talent is there). Rashford is in a similar position, except that I think the difference is that he's already shown himself to be mentally tough, but the question is whether he can rise to become better than the player we've signed to compete with him (Lukaku).

I understand but it just pisses me off when I see the multiple moany threads about Rashford whwenever we sign forward players. It happened last season when we signed Ibra, now again with Lukaku. How sentimental or stupid do the people have to be to want to go into a full season with a 19 year old Rashford as 'main' striker? Why on earth would he be frozen out, he got lots of games last season and will definitely get lots of games this season too. If he's not good to earn his place with only Lukaku as competition then maybe he's not actually as good as you all think. The kid has lots of time on his side to grow and develop as a player. What's the obsession with him leading the line for us right now? Some are worried he won't play at all, some are worried he'll play but as a winger because we went and signed that Lukaku guy in the position that should be reserved for him because he's a precious local lad, its all so fecking tedious

 

[Havak]

He's [Rashford] still very much the second choice No.9. I expect there will be quite a few games where José chooses to substitute Lukaku at 70~ minutes if we're two or more goals ahead (this seemed to happen less so with Zlatan). So, I think Rashford will actually get more game-time up front (not counting injuries) than he has before. Of course, most of his minutes will come from playing either side of a front three, but I'm OK with that and I think he will be too.

 

[kouroux]

I swear people who use the term 'United quality' live in some kind of fantasy land where for the last 30 years we've been successful by signing a succession of Ronaldos.

United quality is a cringeworthy expression, the likes of Fellaini, Young play for us, they're not United quality by that dumb definition but they have their role and use.

 

[Carl]

Yeh I don't buy this kind of logic. Granted Lukaku will start the season with the spot but Rashford will get chances. If he performs better than Lukaku then I'm sure he'll keep the spot.

 

[beergod]

No. If anything, Lukaku enhances Rashford's long-term chances of leading the line for us. Lukaku has some major deficiencies and if Rashford improves his play with back to goal, he could definitely displace him. With Rashford's mentality, I won't bet against it happening.

 

[AndyJ1985]

If a young lad is good enough he will eventually be first choice. The desperation some people have to throw young players in to the team is annoying. First and foremost we exist to be successful and win trophies, and that means building a strong team that can compete with the best. If our youth players can eventually become first choice and help us win trophies then great, but if not they don't deserve to be in the team just because they came from our academy.

 

[ottosec]

This reminds me of the time people were moaning about signing RVP because he was blocking Welbeck's development.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Thats assuming of course that rasbford has his hopes tied to the number 9 position. He played as a winger/10 at youth level.

 

[andersj]

Thats assuming of course that rasbford has his hopes tied to the number 9 position. He played as a winger/10 at youth level.

And I'm not sure he is a 9 in the long term. I agree that he has been at his best for now as a striker. However, he has some flashes of Bale/Ronaldo, and we might underestimate how "underdeveloped" physically he is compared to these two at the same age. I was quite surprised when Mourinho claimed that he has grown an inch the past year.

I would assume that imply that they are still being carefull with him lifting weights, explaining a quite slender lower body. I can imagine his acceleration and body strenth will not be fully developed until 2-4 years, while several players already are at the age of 20-21. Gareth Bale sudden boost can, to a huge extent I believe, be explained by the strides he made physically. Considering Marcus Rashfords pace and size I can see him having a similar development.

He will probably also look less gangly and more comfortable on the ball when he stops growing. The way he strikes the ball is already impressive.

Of course, developing physically will make him more adept as a striker too. But I feel he might have even bigger value as a wide forward. The striker has to stretch the defence, work with his back towards the goal and do a lot of dirty tactical work even when his team are in possession. They are usually the player with fewest touches on the ball of any outfield player on the pitch.

Jose Mourinho probably does not care if Lukaku looks like a donkey at times; he will score goals and he will create space for his team mates. Unlike Zlatan he will not drop deep to participate in the build up. He will push high and create space for his team mate. Even though Zlatan is the better footballer I would not be surprised if Mourinho prefers a striker like Lukaku.

In the long term, I believe Rashford might be able to do more than creating space. I want to see him with his face towards the goal, on the ball running at defenders or attacking space ferociously.

 

[arthurka]

Don´t worry Rashford will play buck loads of games this season. Jose seems to like him very much.