Sir Alex Ferguson: Never Give In

SirAF

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Re-watched the Giggs doc the other day. I still get goosebumps watching him walk out as United manager. Special moment.
Aye, a damn shame it couldn’t work out to be him. Probably wouldn’t have worked out, but what a sight Giggsy in a United suit as manager was :drool:
 

GoldTrafford99

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I've seen it... lucky enough to be concluded in a list of journalists who were sent a preview.

The whole documentary is framed around his brain hemorrhage and then flashes back to his younger days... I didn't know this, and it wasn't reported at the time, but Alex lost his speech for nearly two weeks after his surgery and didn't know whether he would ever speak again...

There is some amazing footage of him as a teenager in this movie, when he used to work in the toolmaking trade.

This movie is not about Manchester United, though of course the great club does play a part as a supporting role... but it's a great insight into the great man.
 
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SER19

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This is going to be the greatest sports documentary ever. Don't care if it turns out to be 90 minutes of fergie struggling with opening a packet of wrigleys,it would still be inspirational. He's a giant and the last of his kind
 

Annihilate Now!

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Early buzz on twitter and reviews all seem really positive... This should be a treat.
 

11101

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Why have they done all the media previews now when it doesnt come out for another 3 months? It will have been forgotten about by then.
 

markhughes

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What a man Sir Alex is, we just don’t make people like him anymore. Man Utd is built on the backs of great men such as Bobby Charlton, Matt Busby, Jimmy Murphy and of course Sir Alex.

We are so privileged to have had so many great people involved in this club over the years, I can’t wait to watch this documentary.
 

Maciek

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"My mindset every time I played a game of football was to win. That was the only thing that mattered. It was the winning aspect of it all the time. I think it was just a natural thing for me."

Think about it next time we play for 0-0 away from home in the league.
 

OleBoiii

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"My mindset every time I played a game of football was to win. That was the only thing that mattered. It was the winning aspect of it all the time. I think it was just a natural thing for me."

Think about it next time we play for 0-0 away from home in the league.
Fergie was an adaptable coach. And adaptability definitely contains a sense of pragmatism. We had a whole lot of draws and losses against our rivals. In the last 3-4 years of his career, we always set up defensively against the likes of Barca, Real and City in the away fixtures. The Liverpool games tended to be quite chaotic and low-quality(in terms of football, not intensity) as well.

That doesn't mean that he was aiming for a draw in these games. Setting up defensively is sometimes the best approach to winning. It's OK to be smart. And Fergie is one of the smartest.
 

Sylar

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We defo set up to not lose vs City away in the 2012 season when Kompany scored. Strangely enough we looked better once Welbeck(?) came on and we had an extra attacker.

Cant wait for the documentary.
 

pascell

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"My mindset every time I played a game of football was to win. That was the only thing that mattered. It was the winning aspect of it all the time. I think it was just a natural thing for me."

Think about it next time we play for 0-0 away from home in the league.
I already do, he set the standards, if a manager doesn't match up to them over a 2-3 year period, they shouldn't be our manager.
 

SirAF

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Somewhat unrelated, but does anyone know where this clip is from?

 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
"My mindset every time I played a game of football was to win. That was the only thing that mattered. It was the winning aspect of it all the time. I think it was just a natural thing for me."

Think about it next time we play for 0-0 away from home in the league.

Fergie was an adaptable coach. And adaptability definitely contains a sense of pragmatism. We had a whole lot of draws and losses against our rivals. In the last 3-4 years of his career, we always set up defensively against the likes of Barca, Real and City in the away fixtures. The Liverpool games tended to be quite chaotic and low-quality(in terms of football, not intensity) as well.

That doesn't mean that he was aiming for a draw in these games. Setting up defensively is sometimes the best approach to winning. It's OK to be smart. And Fergie is one of the smartest.
That is basically rubbish and not true. We never set up defensively against the likes of Barcelona Real.

Rooney on Sir Alex.
"When we got to the final in 2009, he said to us he knew we could beat them playing that way (defensively), but then he said, ‘We are Manchester United and we are not going into the Champions League final to sit back all game. We are going to attack them and do it the right way"

"Ferguson hated playing defensive. Really hated it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1615770-man-utd-legend-wayne-rooney-explains-fergusons-tactics-in-cl-finals-vs-barcelona?amp
 
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OleBoiii

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@UnofficialDevil

"Always" is a stretch but it was very common, particularly in the away games.

When we played Barca away in 2008 we had a pretty defensive setup. The same is true for the away fixture against Real in 2013. The last 2-3 away games against City were also super-defensive. Hell, if I'm not mistaken some of our home games against them were even a bit on the defensive side.

I can't stand the notion that Fergie was some sort of uncompromising manager with a super clear style. He wasn't. He was adaptability personified. Completely different from Pep(for instance).

And that, in my opinion, is a big part of the reason for why he is the greatest manager of all time.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
@UnofficialDevil

"Always" is a stretch but it was very common, particularly in the away games.

When we played Barca away in 2008 we had a pretty defensive setup. The same is true for the away fixture against Real in 2013. The last 2-3 away games against City were also super-defensive. Hell, if I'm not mistaken some of our home games against them were even a bit on the defensive side.

I can't stand the notion that Fergie was some sort of uncompromising manager with a super clear style. He wasn't. He was adaptability personified. Completely different from Pep(for instance).

And that, in my opinion, is a big part of the reason for why he is the greatest manager of all time.
We did not set up defensively against Real or Barcelona. That’s is why the United Real matches were classics with loads of goals. It also probably why we usually lost, because SAF refused to set us up defensively. It doesn’t matter if you can’t stand it because thats how Ferguson was, he hated defending. Even Rooney said it in his interview, I think he should know.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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@UnofficialDevil

"Always" is a stretch but it was very common, particularly in the away games.

When we played Barca away in 2008 we had a pretty defensive setup. The same is true for the away fixture against Real in 2013. The last 2-3 away games against City were also super-defensive. Hell, if I'm not mistaken some of our home games against them were even a bit on the defensive side.

I can't stand the notion that Fergie was some sort of uncompromising manager with a super clear style. He wasn't. He was adaptability personified. Completely different from Pep(for instance).

And that, in my opinion, is a big part of the reason for why he is the greatest manager of all time.
You're contradicting your own statement. Ferguson didn't always play defensively against the top teams. We played Barcelona in 3 separate Champions League campaigns in Ferguson's last few years. He only set us up defensively in one of those 3 - the one you chose to fixate on and adduce as "proof" when you made your original claim that was debunked.

Ofcourse he's adaptable. And I agree that a large part of it makes him the greatest manager ever. But saying that he always played defensivelh against the likes of Barcelona is categorically untrue. He was criticized for not playing more defensive than he did in the 2009 and 2011 Champions League finals.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Can't wait until they release this video in English
His accent could be a little thick. There's a clip from the same VHS release in which he was addressing our players before a match against Liverpool and he was barely intelligible as he attempted to get the United midfield to watch out for Paul Ince.
 

mshnsh

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If he was still the manager, there is NO WAY City would be allowed to win 3 league titles in 4 seasons.

His biggest accomplishments while dominating English football was to not only adapt to times and opponents but also to be able maintain dominance in a time when rivals were being bankrolled by billionaires.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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If he was still the manager, there is NO WAY City would be allowed to win 3 league titles in 4 seasons.

His biggest accomplishments while dominating English football was to not only adapt to times and opponents but also to be able maintain dominance in a time when rivals were being bankrolled by billionaires.
The challenge was getting more difficult because City have the kind of resources that nobody quite had. Having said that, Ferguson did maintain United's dominance when Jack Walker came around. He outperformed everyone even when Newcastle and Liverpool were outspending United comfortably, and did so again in the mid 00's when he outperformed Chelsea after Abramovic's arrival.
 

red thru&thru

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I would have been more excited to watch this if his son wasn't the one in charge. I just don't feel it'll be a documentary that will pish Fergie and ask him the uncomfortable questions...especially around the Rock of Gibraltar fiasco etc.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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I would have been more excited to watch this if his son wasn't the one in charge. I just don't feel it'll be a documentary that will pish Fergie and ask him the uncomfortable questions...especially around the Rock of Gibraltar fiasco etc.
Is that really what we're looking for when it comes to a Sir Alex Ferguson documentary, though? Is it a salient chapter of his managerial career or his legacy?

I'd point out that very few documentaries - regardless of whether the subject's relative is the executive producer - ask the tough questions, because the main subject nearly always has final say over what's green lit. That's why an overwhelmingly number of documentaries are essentially visual hagiographies.

I understand what you're saying though. There could be more to a documentary than just the positive aspects of someone's career, which have probably been covered in other productions anyways.
 

Maticmaker

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There is some amazing footage of him as a teenager in this movie, when he used to work in the toolmaking trade.
Yes, didn't he once comment that if he had stayed in that job he would have retired, like all toolmakers.... "with a bent back and wearing glasses"
 

mshnsh

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The challenge was getting more difficult because City have the kind of resources that nobody quite had. Having said that, Ferguson did maintain United's dominance when Jack Walker came around. He outperformed everyone even when Newcastle and Liverpool were outspending United comfortably, and did so again in the mid 00's when he outperformed Chelsea after Abramovic's arrival.
He continued his dominance even after City's takeover and buying spree
 

OleBoiii

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We did not set up defensively against Real or Barcelona.
In those games that I mentioned we most certainly did. Also, 'defensive' and 'offensive' are not binary values. It's a spectrum.

That’s is why the United Real matches were classics with loads of goals.
The game I mentioned ended 1-1. We were set up significantly more defensive than usual, and we created few chances.

because thats how Ferguson was, he hated defending. Even Rooney said it in his interview, I think he should know.
'Hating to defend' does not equal 'never set up his team defensively'. There is no contradiction there.

Look at the 1-1 game vs Real, the 0-0 game vs Barcelona and our away games vs City between 2011 and 2013. Then look at the average game vs opponents like Aston Villa etc. If you don't see a significant difference in attacking intent(defensive line, men committed forward, urgency, risk taking etc) then I seriously question your understanding of football.
 

FujiVice

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I think people are being willfully literal on the "playing defensive" part. There's a different between playing ultra defensive and how we beat Barca in 2008. Going at them and getting a goal and then inviting them on in the hope of getting them on the counter isnt "defensive." You're managing the game in the hopes of winning it. Vidic, Neville and Rooney were all injured for that match, and we had to play our defensive midfielder at right back. I think you can forgive him for that one.
 

OleBoiii

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I think people are being willfully literal on the "playing defensive" part. There's a different between playing ultra defensive and how we beat Barca in 2008. Going at them and getting a goal and then inviting them on in the hope of getting them on the counter isnt "defensive." You're managing the game in the hopes of winning it.
You can also be "on the defensive side" without parking the bus. Like I said: it's a spectrum.

Let's for the sake of argument say that the spectrum goes from 1 to 10, with 1 being completely parking the bus and not even trying to attack and 10 being the opposite. Let's say that Fergie typically set his team up to play a 7 or 8 on this scale, as 90% of opponents would be inferior anyways.

If we then set up the team to play a 4 on said scale away to the likes of Barca, Real and City(later years), then you could definitely say that he set up defensively. It's very far from parking the bus, but it's definitely on the "careful" side. Especially seeing as he usually wants the team up on 8.

I feel I need to stress this again, though: there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. On the contrary, I find it more admirable. The ability to swallow your pride and realize that your opponent probably is stronger player for player, and then setting the team up in a way that maximises your chance of winning is not a flaw. It's a strength. And contrary to what many might think, it's actually hard to pull off.
 

Amir

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He continued his dominance even after City's takeover and buying spree
True, but rising up to Guardiola's and Klopp's 100-point a season would have taken some doing.

Having said that, if Klopp managed it, Fergie could also (but I'm not so sure about his older version, to be honest, as it would have required changing things).
 

OleBoiii

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Having said that, if Klopp managed it, Fergie could also (but I'm not so sure about his older version, to be honest, as it would have required changing things).
Along with man management, 'changing things' was Fergie's specialty. I'm 100% sure that he would have been able to deal with Pep and Klopp.
 

Amir

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Along with man management, 'changing things' was Fergie's specialty. I'm 100% sure that he would have been able to deal with Pep and Klopp.
A younger Fergie, yes. I'm not sure how open the older Fergie was open to the required changes - and that included the coaching staff and squad.
 

predator

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True, but rising up to Guardiola's and Klopp's 100-point a season would have taken some doing.

Having said that, if Klopp managed it, Fergie could also (but I'm not so sure about his older version, to be honest, as it would have required changing things).
SAF and Guardiola are polar opposites. Klopp is quite similar in how dynamic his budgets have been. I enjoy peps enthusiasm and his brand of football but even the most deluded city fan can see the difference. Guardiola hasn't yet been in a managerial position where he can't bid for players he wants.

Barca, bayern and city are as rich as they come. I hope one day we see him do something at a club that isn't the richest in their respective league.
 

Chairman Steve

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Let’s take bets now. How many times is he going to end a sentence with “no doubt about it” in this documentary? :lol: It’s like his oratory tick like some people ending a sentence with “you know” or people who begin one with “I mean”

If this was 10 years ago and you played a Sir Alex Ferguson pre match press conference bingo card, that four word phrase would be centre square