They own a lot of commercial real estate i thought - shopping malls and the like. With a recession looking those are about to take a pounding
Sir Jim Ratcliffe: I want to buy Manchester United | Will make a bid for the club [Telegraph]
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I think a lot of us who did not want them in the first place did. I believe that method of purchase was outlawed subsequently?
The idea has always been to sell. The question is should Ratcliffe make a 5bn offer do they think the asset will likely be worth more or less than that in 5 years. Is that the peak value? DAZN could offer billions for EPL rights in 2 years time which would make all EPL team values increase. On the other hand the club is in a right state at the minute with competition only growing - so it could decrease.
As someone who has the rare combination of being a Nice and Manchester United fan I would say Radcliffe's stint as owner of Nice has been solid if unspectacular.
You can't just pour in money and he clearly doesn't intend to. Nice don't have huge annual revenues ...typical gate is a little under 20k...and there are other clubs with bigger support (Lyon, Marseille).
But he's brought back the previously successful management team and clearly the club is less worried about cashflow. They aren't so pressed to sell players.
The aim is to be competing regularly in Europe at one level or another, hopefully sometimes CL, and look reasonably set to achieve that.
Anyway it would be miles better than what we've got...he's clearly serious about sports and football if still on a bit of a learning curve...
You can't just pour in money and he clearly doesn't intend to. Nice don't have huge annual revenues ...typical gate is a little under 20k...and there are other clubs with bigger support (Lyon, Marseille).
But he's brought back the previously successful management team and clearly the club is less worried about cashflow. They aren't so pressed to sell players.
The aim is to be competing regularly in Europe at one level or another, hopefully sometimes CL, and look reasonably set to achieve that.
Anyway it would be miles better than what we've got...he's clearly serious about sports and football if still on a bit of a learning curve...
They've wanted to sell since the Super League fiasco, that's for sure. No matter what happens with league rights and whatever else, Man Utd's market value is probably the highest it will be for the foreseeable future.
Yeah exactly this. I think other than broadcast they tapped out all other possible commercial revenues.
Performance is also not strong, I can only see downside risks, not upside.
It really should be time to sell.
The squad is shit (missing CL will be big again),
the stadium and other facilities needs renovating, constant protests. I think now is the right time for them to sell, hopefully they feel the same way.
He'll probably give Fletcher another promotion.
The Super league's dream is not over yet. It will happen although in a different format (ie clubs would have to qualify to go into it). I think that the Glazers want out because the infrastructure is in shambles and they don't have the money to rebuild it. Also the sponsors are starting to bail out.
we'd have been relegated from the Super League by now - even though that was technically impossible
with Steve Bruce getting the call to be manager? and when he turns it down, Mark Hughes-Bryan Robson "dream" team
Ineos group, already discussed.
A 5bn asset they didn't pay for
Can you remind me how did they buy it, borrowed money to buy the club, then put their own debt onto the club?
Earning 20m on a 5bn asset is like us celebrating 20 quid interest on 5m in the bank..
The club is dangerously close to becoming a liability for them due to our recent performance, they sell now whilst it's still an asset or they lose out altogether.
I like it. Its how City's rise started.
I doubt the Glazers actively want to sell.
The fans will have to play an active part.
The fans will have to play an active part.
Great post, pretty much exactly my feelings on it.
Yes pretty much. They took out a loan that the club is liable for to buy the club. It is utterly mental to me.
You guys here who seemingly know more about the financials than I do are getting my hopes up...
I just know they're going to say the club's not for sale.
I just know they're going to say the club's not for sale.
They’ve wanted to sell since they bought the club. That’s always been the plan. It’s all about timing. I’m fairly sure when this has been discussed in previous years and the glazers valued the club at 2bn, then 3bn, then 4bn everyone said they’d never get that much. Yet here we are with Bloomberg saying if it were to be sold 5bn is the price and at least one very viable buyer.
They used the club as collateral against their borrowing to buy the club, or some such.
I think the chances somehow comes in to buy a minority stake whilst the Glazers remain in control are basically zero at this point.
For your money you get a dog-shit dividend ROI, a huge loan whilst interest rates are increasing and the economy is in the toilet, a decrepit stadium, an ever disenfranchised fan-base, a diminishing brand-value, no CL for the foreseeable and a first-team full of over-paid tossers. With the cherry-on-the-cake being the people who ran this once flourishing business into the ground will get paid (from the business profits) for the privilege of fleecing it until it finally keels over and pegs it.
Yeah they took out a massive loan to payfor it and then lumped that debt onto the club, so they've essentially took out hundreds of millions for nothing as they've never been liable to pay it back
Woodward structured the deal, and despite the years of failure under him it remains the worst thing he's ever done.
They were always speculating to accumulate. The oldest business model.
It looks like the bulk of that is from selling shares though (I think they sold some non-voting shares to Chinese investors at some point?)
Strictly from a revenue generation/dividend perspective, I don't think they have made much...and the clubs' in a worse state now than it's ever been.
Aside from selling shares or taking control of our TV rights somehow I don't see how they can generate significant funds right now
It's like earning 20k, but I understand your point.
however with united, it's not their own investment at risk. If they sell united and re invest it all in something its genuinely their own capital at risk.
Unless something goes massively wrong united will always be worth in and around this 5billion.
Their new investment may not.
It would make sense for the Glazers to sell now considering a year into the future our market value would be lower than what it is right now. This is keeping in mind the downward trajectory we've been seeing since Fergie left and our going to see into the foreseeable future.
Don't be surprised if we get sold for much lower than the 5bn valuation that is being touted everywhere. That is the highest valuation the club/media has disclosed and nobody is going to respect those valuations for a sinking ship that is us.
Don't be surprised if we get sold for much lower than the 5bn valuation that is being touted everywhere. That is the highest valuation the club/media has disclosed and nobody is going to respect those valuations for a sinking ship that is us.
If he personally buys it, Ineos won’t be signing a blank cheque for us to buy players.
But we don’t need anyone to as long as we’re well run. We make enough to compete.
Ineos are much more likely to hand us title sponsor money and if required something like a stadium/training centre rights name deal.
The other point to mention is that if we're bought by INEOS we have a couple of feeder clubs in Nice and FC Lausanne-Sport.
Agreed. Cautiously optimistic.
If there is real movement here and JR is a genuine option then he’s on the more digestible scale of billionaires. Even if I personally disagree with his worldview.
Unfortunate reality of modern football is as you say where the only heads of big clubs are evil regimes butchering people or hedgefund managers interested purely for profit.
It's not a cash cow anymore. The heat is cranked up at the moment on and off the pitch. The finances are waning. The club need massive investment to stay at the top, they aren't going to dip into their pockets. More mass fan protects, brand going to take a another hit.
They literally going to have to sell soon or pump their own money in, which we know they won't do.
It's make as much sense to sell now than ever before
So Barca sells parts of itself to buy players, while United sells parts of itself to feed the Glazers. I have seen enough, I am calling it, buy us Jim.
From what I've read, it was never his intention to pour money into Nice. He wanted to build a self sufficient club that focused on producing players and signing at the right stage rather than going down the route of spending to buy success.
Yeh, insane cost of living crisis, stagnant wages, massive inflation, chronic housing shortage, rampant inequality. It's a mystery why people are getting pissed off with obscene and unnecessary levels of wealth.
Yup. From a business perspective what they’ve done will be in textbooks of what to do. They bought the club with 200m of their own money, got the club to pay off 550m debt with its own revenue and increased the value of the club by 7 times - all while paying themselves dividends, consultancy fees and then selling lesser shares when we went public. They still control 70% of the club yet have already made what they put in 6 times over. And when they sell they’ll get at least 4bn on top.
From their POV (and ours obviously!) I think now is the time to cash out though. Whilst I can definitely see this club being worth more in the future I don’t see it happening under their ownership which is now toxic and actively holding the club back. They’re a PR disaster which will impact commercial deals and they don’t have the level of investment needed to keep us competitive and do the infrastructure work required.
Gouiri on deadline day?
According to Swiss Ramble's figures, they've taken £166m in dividends, £55m in Directors Fees, £23m in Management Fees and at least £465m in Class A share sales.
£709m. They've tripled the money they spent to buy the club and now stand to pocket £4bn from selling it.
Sports clubs/franchises throughout the world have gone up on average something like 40% in their valuation over the last 5 years. As bad as we have been on the pitch we are up 27% over the last 5 years (according to Forbes). Between Chelsea and Denver Broncos there are now buyers willing to spend over $3.2B and $4.6B respectively. The Broncos sold for $1.4B over their Forbes valuation and Chelsea would have sold for a lot more (arguably did as Boehly committed additional funds to building a new stadium and team transfers) if not under the special circumstances.
The next round of TV deals could result in a massive influx of revenue. Also the Super League looms in the background. There is still more growth to be had. That’s not to say the future is risk free financially but the potential is there if they want to roll the dice.
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