Sir Jim reportedly deems ETH's position not a priority unless results are particularly dire - missed opportunity or the right decision?

[AFC NimbleThumb]

From what I hear, on the pods I listen to, where people claim to be itK the plan is to go for Potter eventually.

I think ideally EtH wouldn’t be mismanaging the team in the manner he is & they could have come in, done this then made the change in the Summer, it’s no suprise there’s no appetite to change the manager now but with absolutely 0 inside knowledge I would be shocked if EtH were at the club next season bar a historic upturn in form.

Funnily enough tips reminds me of when EtH took over & talked up Ronaldo.

 

[Shark]

Results aren't dire? bottom of a dire CL group to add to the misery.

 

[2 man midfield]

The right call in my opinion. Put the right structure in place and back him, he’s a better coach than the results this season have shown

 

[Hammondo]

It would be silly to sack him now.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

We've got to a point where losing 50 % of the games and having more or less nothing to play for by January is not 'dire'. Congrats to everyone who wanted this joker to buy the club.

Look at how quickly people backed down from ‘there must be a full takeover’ to ‘well if you look at the 25% this way. . .’

I’m no big fan of the style of takeover he has adopted but I can’t actually blame him for this EtH situation. They’d never have thought he’d be this bad & it would need to be addressed so quickly.

I think if there was appetite amongst the fanbase for it they’d address it but there’s a bunch of fans trying to paint this era of mediocrity as a badge of honour.

 

[stevoc]

But thats the point. He didn’t say that, we’ve got no idea what he thinks, it’s just The Guardian copying other clickbaiters and making stories.

No we don't know if he said it or didn't say it, hence the if.

Eh, if having our worst 1st half of the season since the 30's and arguably our worst European campaign in the history of the club doesn't count as 'particularly dire' in the mind of Jim Ratcliffe.

And then we make a thread about it. As we do.

Yes and then people post comments in it.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

How many posts moaning about SJR or ETH or both … when he didn’t say what’s suggested.

Poor paper with poor journalists (bar maybe one or two) with a fluff piece.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

No we don't know if he said it or didn't say it, hence the if.





Yes and then people post comments in it.

You’ve cut off the end of your original post. Accidentally probably.

 

[Chairman Steve]

We’re basically down to one game a week for the rest of the season and our notable injured players are returning this month. He has to make use of that advantage for the rest of the season.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

terrible management consultancy. they should have come in and fired a third of the workforce, before changing the club’s name and badge.

That's the real United Red Kentucky Devils way.

 

[Skills]

Look at how quickly people backed down from ‘there must be a full takeover’ to ‘well if you look at the 25% this way. . .’

I’m no big fan of the style of takeover he has adopted but I can’t actually blame him for this EtH situation. There’s never have thought he’d be this bad & it would need to be addressed so quickly.

I think if there was appetite amongst the fanbase for it they’d address it but there’s a bunch of fans trying to paint this era of mediocrity as a badge of honour.

Tbf it does him no harm personally. The further we sink, the easier it is to take credit for a recovery in any shape or form.

 

[stevoc]

You’ve cut off the end of your original post. Accidentally probably.

It wouldn't have changed anything to be fair.

As I said if Jim Ratcliffe really has standards that low then I'd worry for the future.

But anyway I'm glad we've sorted out how speculative newspaper articles and internet forums work.

 

[Sandikan]

Instead of people taking the positive that the new management look to be keen to overhaul everything, people are instead insisting on trying to find holes or snide little comments for an article where Ratcliffe isn't even quoted.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Tbf it does him no harm personally. The further we sink, the easier it is to take credit for a recovery in any shape or form.

Exactly.

Any shite this season is just ‘Whilst under Glazer rule’. They were never going to come in & sack him, that’s not how any well run business works.

 

[Brophs]

If that is the approach they’ve taken, it seems very logical and certainly shouldn’t be taken as some sort of value judgement on ETH or his performance. Whether or not the club is a shitshow, I don’t think they’ll be naive enough just to dismiss the underperformance as something that happened to him by circumstance rather than something he directly contributed to. He’ll also presumably have a CL qualification clause in his contract which would allow him to be terminated under value if we didn’t make it, which probably feeds into delaying any assessment of him or his position.

You’d imagine they’ll do a full review of the footballing side of the club, followed by a review of the staff, which will include ETH and after that they’ll have a fair idea whether he/they had been hamstrung by a broken system or whether he’s just the wrong guy, regardless of the clown car fire he’s been subject to.

 

[Zen86]

Right decision. He’s here to restructure the club. Keeping the manager in place for now is the pragmatic approach.

 

[crossy1686]

It does need addressing, just not right now. Say we bring in a new manager with a completely different style of play and the players don't take to him and we keep dropping points, what then?

This needs looking at from top to botrom and bringing in a manager mid season isnt going to change anything.

Why would we bring someone in with a totally different style of play?

 

[Fortitude]

Season is fecked, for sure, but truly believe we could have a positive bounce second half of the season with a change of manager now.

It’s unbelievable how many are happy or indifferent to a whole season potentially being written off. The damage to morale should this dire state continue will be yet another thing in need of repair.

If this is true and is carried out to the wire, ten Hag will be the luckiest of all our post-Fergie managers for being given borrowed time to fix the absolute mess he’s got himself and the team into. A side by side of the 1st and 2nd halves of the season would be interesting.

 

[surf]

Right decision. Let's see how the rest of the season goes when some of the better players return from injury.

 

[DSG]

What’s the point of sacking him to hire a caretaker only to find his replacement in the summer.

Main priority is to fix the people making the footballing decisions first and if ETH is found to be not suitable in the plans of those people they hired, than find someone who’s suitable.

Well… Champions League money for sure, roughly 60m just for group matches. If there is the conclusion that the squad is underperforming under ETH, then they would make a move. That’s a pretty big point. People think that changing the manager before the season ends is wrong, but I can think of many reasons why it would be better to do now:

* Since it’s taken 14 months to close the INEOS deal, I’m sure when it became clear that Sir Jim’s bid would win, they would start looking at footballing structure, which means they already have key positions lined up: Sporting director / DoF, CEO, etc.
* A new DoF would want his own hire
* Maybe they already have a manager in mind who is available. If so, get him in now so he can assess the squad and begin to install tactics now.
* Maybe they think top managers will not be available come summer and they’ll have to take a chance on a relatively unproven candidate.

 

[pascell]

Why would we bring someone in with a totally different style of play?

Why would we go for Moyes, to LvG, to Jose?

 

[Ballache]

We've been complaining about not having a good structure at the club that allows us to make good football-ing decisions, yet people want ETH sacked before said structure is in place.
We need to hire a DoF, Head of recruitment, have the CEO in place and THEN we can sack/keep ETH and sign a replacement with a solid plan...Makes no sense to do so right now as we have players coming back from injury and the season is basically over.

 

[DSG]

They were never on him in the first place. He gave the club a list of his priority targets, and once they are unattainable they move on to his 2nd and 3rd targets in each position. The club pushed hard for his number 1 targets and unfortunately didn't get them all. Whether or not his list of priority targets are good enough or not is another matter.

Where’s your source on this? ETH has veto power on all incoming and outgoing transfers. This is well documented. You can say his first choice transfers were Haaland, Mbappe and Bellingham… well, we weren’t going to get them anyway. Watching Antony play every day in the Dutch League… well hell, he should have used his veto to stop the transfer, not suggest we bring him in — which he did do… His fingerprints were all over both transfer windows. His agent is Hojlund’s agent for chrissakes.

Weghorst? The DeJong fiasco? Lisandro? Malacia? Onana?

 

[crossy1686]

Why would we go for Moyes, to LvG, to Jose?

Because Woodward was picking the managers?

 

[Fortitude]

We've been complaining about not having a good structure at the club that allows us to make good football-ing decisions, yet people want ETH sacked before said structure is in place.
We need to hire a DoF, Head of recruitment, have the CEO in place and THEN we can sack/keep ETH and sign a replacement with a solid plan...Makes no sense to do so right now as we have players coming back from injury and the season is basically over.

Saying the season is over suggests there’s nothing to play for. CL qualification and a deep FA Cup run should still be in our scope.

 

[Plant0x84]

I think that EtH has been our worst manager in almost half a century

Nothing quite like a bit of hyperbole.

 

[Abraxas]

For now it's the right line for them to come out with, yes. There isn't really a compelling solution involving changing the manager right now in the middle of a season when they haven't even had an opportunity to look at the state of the club in the full depth that is required. All you're doing is bringing a new victim into a mess. We may as well stick with the current incumbent who has already taken that hit to his reputation.

It will go one of two ways, he either regains some credibility this season, which they will look at in full. Or he sinks without a trace and then it's very convenient to get rid of him at the season end and usher in a new era.

But right now, this is the considered move to make.

 

[giorno]

Clearly what INEOS seem to be suggesting is that they want to take a root and branch overview of the club, before deciding whether ETH is the right leader.

Which is only sensible

However, isn't ETH a critical part of the club's structure and executive decision-making structure?

Clearly, he is not. He's just the manager. He coaches the team. Whatever his involvement in personnel under the previous regime no longer matters at this time

 

[Revan]

Nothing quite like a bit of hyperbole.

26 seasons of SAF and this is the 12th since he retired, makes it 38 seasons. Not half a century but not far off in the context of football.

 

[Jonesno.8]

As much as it's tough to have a season is dissaray, we're we to change and things go well we might not get to the bottom of what's actually wrong, move on and make the same mistakes again. An.observation period for the group to ascertain the core issues will be tough especially if we continue as we are on the pitch but I think it's the right move.

 

[pocco]

We've got to a point where losing 50 % of the games and having more or less nothing to play for by January is not 'dire'. Congrats to everyone who wanted this joker to buy the club.

It is a bit worrying, but hopefully just not upsetting the apple cart.

To say "unless results are particularly dire" is a bit daft. As though the last 5 months mean nothing to them and we just have to take it on the chin. It's almost suggesting because they're now involved, things so magically be different and Ten Hag will be better at his job.

As the OP suggests, surely the manager is a pretty critical piece of the structure anyway. I completely understand that the rest does need sorting, but I thought things would be largely in place by now anyway. I don't know, maybe I'm being naive but given they have Blanc and Brailsford already working together for weeks/ months, access to all info on structure and finances, that they could have assessed a lot of things by now and made some decisions.

 

[sunama]

We've got to a point where losing 50 % of the games and having more or less nothing to play for by January is not 'dire'. Congrats to everyone who wanted this joker to buy the club.

Standards have been declining, year on year since SAF retired.
We have now reached a point where a loss rate of 50% is acceptable.

The worst part of this is that many fans also think that this is our level and is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No, no, this is the worst it’s ever been. There have been varying stages of dire but this is pretext to relegation dire.

Ole got sacked at a point he was racking up a 1.42 pts /game average.
ETH is on 1.55 currently.

So yeah, it’s been worse, but it always feels worse when you’re living in that moment.

Ineos are bang on to get everything else right before hampering themselves with a caretaker manager chase.
Unless things get Ole final season dire, spend the next 5 months changing the football structure & then add a new manager that aligns with that.

 

[crossy1686]

Ole got sacked at a point he was racking up a 1.42 pts /game average.
ETH is on 1.55 currently.

So yeah, it’s been worse, but it always feels worse when you’re living in that moment.

Ineos are bang on to get everything else right before hampering themselves with a caretaker manager chase.
Unless things get Ole final season dire, spend the next 5 months changing the football structure & then add a new manager that aligns with that.

We're on 1.36 ppg this season. You can't carry over wins from last season to this season and pretend it's all rosy.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

We've got to a point where losing 50 % of the games and having more or less nothing to play for by January is not 'dire'. Congrats to everyone who wanted this joker to buy the club.

But, he didn’t say it… The Guardian are.

The Sun does this and we (rightly) ignore it because…. it’s The Sun. The Guardian just has a better font.

(fwiw, I think Ten Hag has been average to poor this season… selections, tactics, formations (all too rigid at times), subs. But he’s also had a crap injury list and he has some kudos for last season. On balance, and with injured players returning, I’d give him until May and review the position. Which is what Ratcliffe will likely do).

Good point. There is no direct quote from SJR in the article or even one from a source, so I've edited the thread title and OP.
The OP also omits 'particularly' from that line too- unless results are particularly dire. The line is only from a journo anyway, so is likely an assumption based on little.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Standards have been declining, year on year since SAF retired.
We have now reached a point where a loss rate of 50% is acceptable.

The worst part of this is that many fans also think that this is our level and is perfectly acceptable.

Not many really think it acceptable.

Many do however think we ended 2 seasons ago on 58 points and are projected for 59 currently.
That season we sacked a manager, club legend and the caretaker made little difference, just as with Lampard at Chelsea.

Clearly United need changes from top to bottom so I’d personally find it odd for new part owners to immediately hamper that job by saddling themselves with a sacking and caretaker managerial chase which could easily end up Lampard or Ragnick-esque.

Much better if things don’t get 40ish points projection dire, to use these 5 months to make the big changes and then bring a manager that aligns with that new structure.

 

[AneRu]

Where’s your source on this? ETH has veto power on all incoming and outgoing transfers. This is well documented. You can say his first choice transfers were Haaland, Mbappe and Bellingham… well, we weren’t going to get them anyway. Watching Antony play every day in the Dutch League… well hell, he should have used his veto to stop the transfer, not suggest we bring him in — which he did do… His fingerprints were all over both transfer windows. His agent is Hojlund’s agent for chrissakes.

Weghorst? The DeJong fiasco? Lisandro? Malacia? Onana?

People are clutching at straws in an effort to absolve him for shit recruitment which is mostly his fault. It's rather disigneuous of them to change the narrative now when we all know that it was on his insistence that we chased De Jong for three months, if he wasn't desperate for Antony we would have walked away and the same happened with Mount. ETH pushed hard for these signings, he can't disown them now.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We're on 1.36 ppg this season. You can't carry over wins from last season to this season and pretend it's all rosy.

We’ve played 20 games & last I looked, 20 x 1.36 = 27.2 points.

We’re on 1.55 points as I stated.

 

[crossy1686]

We’re played 20 games & last I looked, 20 x 1.36 = 27.2 points.

We’re on 1.55 points as I stated.

28 in all comps, still, this is the worst start to a season in something like 90 years. It's not pretty, and it's the textbook definition of 'dire'.

 

[pascell]

Because Woodward was picking the managers?

Woodward never chose ten Hag, so there's your problem, the people above the manager. Woodward, Arnold and Murtough have had made the wrong decisions when it comes to the big ones and that's because the structure above the manager needs sorting first.