They're both kak, but Smalling takes the cake in terms of how pathetically he folds under pressure.
The worst first choice CB at the club in a long, long, time.
The worst first choice CB at the club in a long, long, time.
Smalling or Jones - who goes?
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
Probably Smalling. But given Rojo's injury I'd probably hold on to him barring any decent bids.
Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo, Jones and Blind sounds good to me.
Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo, Jones and Blind sounds good to me.
Jones will go first I feel. Smalling to follow suit after Rojo recovered and Tuanzebe gains more experience.
Send both to Burnley and get Keane
Is it only me who fears that Rojo wont be the same after injury? So not sure should we pull a trigger on Jones/Smalling this season.
I can't see Jose selling Smalling without signing a defender who is dominant in the air. Neither Bailly nor Jones are good in the air and it doesn't seem as though Lindelof is any better.
I think Smalling will stay and will start the season in the first 11.
I think Smalling will stay and will start the season in the first 11.
I am also worry with the fact that we don't have centre back who can dominate in the air. I think Jones is the closest one to Smalling for it while Bailly, Rojo and Blind have been meh in the air. Bailly tends to miss the target when he try to do header. But then again we still have Fellaini though and Jose loves to use him for defending set pieces.
Smalling please. He scares the shit out of me whenever he plays. Jones is the better defender. Ideally we get rid of both and bring back Keane.
Hard question because both should be gone.
If Fellaini is still in the first 11 after this transfer window it will have been a very disappointing summer.
Of the centre back options, Smalling is easily the best in the air, Rojo next with Jones and Bailly well behind.
I'd just drop him outside the Emirates to be fair.
Jones was only behind Smalling in terms of aerial duel%. Smalling at 69%, Jones at 67%, Rojo at 59% and Bailly at 58%
None of them will leave, whats the point selling a center back? We simply cannot afford to offload defenders, much less a center back, due to prolonged injuries.
I'd be ok with that
If one of them has to go it has to be Jones. He is more injury prone than Smalling. But then we need a CB who doesn't get injured often, can play decently and happy to play backup
Just shows how misleading stats can be. The best headers will naturally match up with the best headers in the opposition so "aerial duel %" is a nonsense stat.
Smalling and Rojo are a threat from attacking set pieces. Smalling's contribution from an attacking set piece was vital in winning the Europa league final. Rojo wins a lot of headers and is aggressive in attacking the ball.
I cannot remember Bailly and Jones ever contributing anything from an attacking set piece and now rarely even go forward.
Do we keep Smalling a player who consistently performs at 5/10 and is built out of glass
Or Jones that plays consistently at 7/10 but is also built of glass?
Or Jones that plays consistently at 7/10 but is also built of glass?
It would be misleading if Jones did not have decent aerial numbers since Blackburn. And we were talking about heading on defense. Not every defender who is good at heading the ball out of his box is good at attacking them in the opposition's box.
Depends who we get a decent offer for first. Not wildly bothered either way. If Jones could be kept fit, of keep him obviously that's a big if
Your choices look spot-on to me, but Rojo is out for six months. This means Smalling will stay for now. Whichever centre-half moves on, will do so next season.
Get rid of both preferably and get Keane in for the homegrown status along with being a better player then either.
It's the same skillset. It's about judging the flight and attacking the ball. If you are good at winning the ball in the air you will be a threat from attacking set pieces. He is not good at it. If the stats say he is, they are misleading. You just need to watch him play to see that.
You won't see Jose play Jones and Blind or Jones and Bailly at centre back unless forced to by injury because you need at least one of them to be better aerially.
Unless we're signing another CB we should probably keep both, for now. Rojo out until the new year and then who knows what he'll be like when he's back.
However, I'd happily get rid of one or both and promote Tuanzebe and TFM but I don't think it'll happen.
However, I'd happily get rid of one or both and promote Tuanzebe and TFM but I don't think it'll happen.
General consensus is that it will be Jones due to his injury record but you can argue that Smalling will want to play some first team football and will ask to leave especially considering next year it's the WC2018.
Surprised at how many are saying Jones tbh. Is this just because of his injury record or do people genuinely not rate him?
He's still potentially excellent imo and was very good this season when he had that run of games.
If it's a straight shootout between the 2 then it's a pretty easy decision I think.
He's still potentially excellent imo and was very good this season when he had that run of games.
If it's a straight shootout between the 2 then it's a pretty easy decision I think.
Also, the way people talk about Smalling in the air would lead you to believe they were talking about Vidic.
He's very good in the air but not to the level that he should be indespensible, and certainly not to the level where he should still be starting!
He's very good in the air but not to the level that he should be indespensible, and certainly not to the level where he should still be starting!
Not always the case someone Stam was a monster in the air defensively but, did not do much attacking set pieces and someone is ok in the air but, is a monster attacking set pieces. And Jones shows good aerial ability in this match.
It's not about how good Smalling is. It's about how bad the others are which makes it a genuine weakness when Smalling (or Rojo) isn't in the side.
Yeah I think he is worst one out of him Jones, Bailly and Rojo but, he is fantastic on the air. Smalling would be great for a club where CBs mostly just need to head out crosses and win one on one battles.
Anyone who follows my posts know that I don't rate Smalling and Jones. The former is the typical late 80s EPL defender. He's big, he's tough and he's dumb. Jones is a slightly better player but he's made of glass.
Having said that selling them now would be a mistake
a- we're not very good in extracting good fees out of our unwanted players.
b- no one will want to come to United to stay as a reserve of two 22 year olds whose got 10 years+ ahead
c- Both Lindelof and Bailly are 22 something. They are great players but there will be times when you need someone with experience around
d- We've had injury problems in defence for years. Keeping 5 CBs is not that outrageous considering that Jones is barely ever fit
e- Tuanzebe looks like the real deal. He needs 1 year of EPL regular first team football which he won't get at United. By keeping all 5 CBs we can afford to send him on loan
f- We won't be able to buy 2 top quality DMs so Blind will be needed in CM.
Having said that selling them now would be a mistake
a- we're not very good in extracting good fees out of our unwanted players.
b- no one will want to come to United to stay as a reserve of two 22 year olds whose got 10 years+ ahead
c- Both Lindelof and Bailly are 22 something. They are great players but there will be times when you need someone with experience around
d- We've had injury problems in defence for years. Keeping 5 CBs is not that outrageous considering that Jones is barely ever fit
e- Tuanzebe looks like the real deal. He needs 1 year of EPL regular first team football which he won't get at United. By keeping all 5 CBs we can afford to send him on loan
f- We won't be able to buy 2 top quality DMs so Blind will be needed in CM.
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Vidic was better then Smalling because he was an 'independent' player. You don't need to partner him with anybody to get the best out of him. Smalling needs an intelligent ball playing player near him who keeps him in line and who passes the ball around for him. We didn't had that player before but now we've got Lindelof
I'd rather keep everyone and be tension free with defensive injuries for 1 season. Its not like we need to offload or we have a 30 million bid incoming for someone. Everyone of those players is nowhere near tosh and can be a huge success in the coming years. If you don't have patience with young players, you should not buy them or push them from your academy. Fletcher is a great example. After all the abuse he got, eventually started delivering on the trust.
So many people here seem to not mind smalling leaving which dissapoints me the most. He was our best defender just a couple of seasons ago. Defenitely deserves to stay and prove himself again.
So many people here seem to not mind smalling leaving which dissapoints me the most. He was our best defender just a couple of seasons ago. Defenitely deserves to stay and prove himself again.
Both.
Jones had probably his best period of form this season that he's had in quite a few years. He got a good run of games, and did a decent job during it. And yet even during that period he was comfortably being outperformed by Rojo at the time. And overall I would say Smalling, during his worst season in a few years, still outperformed him this year. Jones has never come remotely close to performing at the level that Smalling did last season.
Add in the fact that Jones is far far more injury prone, and it's not even close as to which I would sell.
Exactly.
Winning headers against Firmino and Coutinho isn't that impressive for a centre back. Watch Giroud's header at Old Trafford. It was one of the most decisively won headers I can remember at Old Trafford.
Late in a game when trying to defend a lead is when you need your centre backs to aim up physically. In that scenario, I would rather either Smalling or Rojo at the back than Jones.
I still remember when Stoke came to Old Trafford and Peter Crouch (who I never even considered a threat, mainly because Vidic used to absolutely boss him every game) completely destroyed Jones and Evans aerially and physically.
Agree with this. There is no need to sell them now unless someone comes in with a really good offer. Rojo is anyway out till the end of the year. Blind won't be played as a DM though. There were numerous occasions when Jose had the chance to do it but chose not to. I can't see him suddenly changing his mind now. Blind will have to fight with Darmian and Shaw for the LB position.
Does anyone know much money are they on? And how long their contracts are?
I think it will depend on who the bids come in for first in regards to who leaves. Jose seems open to either going.
Neither. Why should one go?
I think it's absurd to see how badly they're rated here.
I think it's absurd to see how badly they're rated here.
we haven't yet agreed personal terms
Smalling and Jones.