Smalling or Jones - who goes?

[Kag]

I don't know what games you do be watching mate, he's fecking brutal, nowhere near good enough for our aspirations.

I've watched more or less every game Smalling has ever played for us and I can assure you it isn't me with the eye problem. His defending is very, very good. It always has been, whether it be under Ferguson, Moyes, van Gaal and (as evidenced in the Europa final) Mourinho. Luckily, I'm not one of these eejits that gets deluded by a game against Chelsea with a broken toe. I'd prefer to take into account the many good games both he (and Jones, for that matter) have had at the club.

Like I said, they're both cracking options for depth, and more than good enough to excel when in the first team (hence they've played in big matches such as European finals and Champions League semi-finals). Not that I expect you to remember that.

 

[parkthebuslads]

I think the lack of agreement says a lot and it isn't how good they both are.

Ideally we would replace both but that seems unlikely given the home grown quota and the amount of changes the squad is having as a whole. Of the two I believe Smalling to have reached the higher level but also to have had the worst spells.

Against the better teams I would prefer him but would prefer Jone's ability to pass against the lower half teams.

A coin toss seems ridiculous but I'm really having a tough time here .

 

[The Mitcher]

If jones wasn't injured as much we would probably be talking equally as much about his own bad spells, Smalling rarely has bad games and is probably one of the best pure defenders in the league. By pure defender I mean, he is your old school defend first defender and not a modern day ball playing defender. If you want someone there who on his best days is a great rock in the centre that will stop everything in his path and dominate in the air, he is the one for you, and there aren't many defenders like that, plus, it's clear his injury record has actually improved from his earlier years. Between the two of them he is the most likely to stay fit and have injury free (or relatively uninterrupted with injury) seasons than Jones. He also stands the best chance of forcing his way through to the first team, he has displaced blind, rojo, jones at various points in the season when he wasn't playing as much. If that doesn't point to how good he is, I don't know what does. Lindolof will not find it easy with this competition for places. So for me, even though I like both players, it will have to be Jones.

 

[BigCaine]

In an ideal world i would sell both and buy keane instead, for first half of the season we can have bailly, lindelof, keane, tfm and tuanzebe while second half add rojo to that list enough cover for the season. Neither is good enough, jones is too injury prone to be of any use and smalling is just plain rubbish.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

. In addition, you don't actually need 25 senior players, not at all. Jose has said multiple times that he wants around 20-23 players, which means that you need just 3-6 homegrown players.

Not sure you're right about that. Every Premier League club needs to show a squad of 25. So, at least on paper, there should be no less than 8 home grown players.

Agree with you here though:

And at the moment, we have Pereira, Shaw, Jones, Smalling, Young, Carrick, Pogba, Pereira, Januzaj, Lingard and Rooney. This leaves 27 senior players, with Januzaj most likely being the one to leave. Someone else needs to leave (let's say Rooney), if we want to sign some other player (be it homegrown or not) because of quotas, one of Smalling and Jones seems the best choice.

So, 11 home grown players, 10 without Januzaj. Which means we can still offload two.

Ideally I'd want Rooney and Young gone. But we are in the market to sell Darmian, meaning Young might be needed. And Rooney, well.. seems difficult to get rid.

If we sell one of the above two then, as you said, it comes to Jones or Smalling. Now if I were a midtable club, I'd definitely prefer Smalling, simply because he stays fit. United, on the other hand, can get away with Jones playing 20 games a season if he is fourth-choice (behind Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo).

So we'll find it easier and get a better price if we sell Smalling. That's my thinking from a practical viewpoint.

 

[Revan]

Not sure you're right about that. Every Premier League club needs to show a squad of 25. So, at least on paper, there should be no less than 8 home grown players.

Agree with you here though:


So, 11 home grown players, 10 without Januzaj. Which means we can still offload two.

Ideally I'd want Rooney and Young gone. But we are in the market to sell Darmian, meaning Young might be needed. And Rooney, well.. seems difficult to get rid.

If we sell one of the above two then, as you said, it comes to Jones or Smalling. Now if I were a midtable club, I'd definitely prefer Smalling, simply because he stays fit. United, on the other hand, can get away with Jones playing 20 games a season if he is fourth-choice (behind Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo).

So we'll find it easier and get a better price if we sell Smalling. That's my thinking from a practical viewpoint.

As I said, you don't need to register 25 players, just that 25 is the maximum number of players which can be registered. If you register 25, you need to have 8 homegrown, if you register 22, you need to have 5 homegrown.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

As I said, you don't need to register 25 players, just that 25 is the maximum number of players which can be registered. If you register 25, you need to have 8 homegrown, if you register 22, you need to have 5 homegrown.

Ah okay. Thanks for clearing that up. So, no more than 17 non-homegrown players is what actually matters.

 

[surf]

Smalling is a top defender, IMO the best at the club. Doubt he is going anywhere. He started both winning cup final games and clearly has a role to play. I can't think of a good reason why Jose would sell him unless he asked to leave, which seems unlikely.

 

[Verbalkint]

Definitely Jones. He's so injury prone he can't be relied upon. If Smalling recaptures some of that 'Mike Smalling' form we'd do real well.

 

[red4ever 79]

Should be the player who is consistently unavailable, and that is Jones. Regardless of talent, if you cannot play you are no use to anyone. Mike seems to be available more than Jones

 

[LFC-Fans]

Jones... surely?

 

[The Cat]

If just one is going then Jones.

Smalling's decent cover was one of our better players under LvG and scored the odd goal too.

 

[humdinger]

Jose seemed quite impressed with Jones at the start of the season, so I suspect his preference would be to keep Jones and move Smalling on.

I actually think Smalling is more likely to make a daft mistake than Jones is, but Jones is so incredibly unreliable due to his injuries he's kind of pointless to keep around.

 

[rcoobc]

Smalling has, normally, been one of our best defenders during his time here.

Jones has, normally, been a bit all over the place.

 

[Still ill]

Smalling has, normally, been one of our best defenders during his time here.

Jones has, normally, been a bit all over the place.

I agree with Robocop. Mike finished the season in fine form and has been mostly excellent for the last 2 seasons. If he's ok with the competition, we'd be crazy to get rid of him.

 

[horsechoker]

Jones should be put out to pasta, he's too injury prone

 

[Green_Red]

I've watched more or less every game Smalling has ever played for us and I can assure you it isn't me with the eye problem. His defending is very, very good. It always has been, whether it be under Ferguson, Moyes, van Gaal and (as evidenced in the Europa final) Mourinho. Luckily, I'm not one of these eejits that gets deluded by a game against Chelsea with a broken toe. I'd prefer to take into account the many good games both he (and Jones, for that matter) have had at the club.

Like I said, they're both cracking options for depth, and more than good enough to excel when in the first team (hence they've played in big matches such as European finals and Champions League semi-finals). Not that I expect you to remember that.

Its not even worth arguing when you bring up a game from 3 or 4 years ago.

His game has stood still for 5 years and he isn't good enough to start for United.

World class

 

[Red_Beans]

I would keep both. Cannot expect Rojo to come back after such a serious injury half way through the season and hit top form immediately. To be safe we should not count Rojo as available at all next season.

 

[Hardy Jay]

I would keep both. Cannot expect Rojo to come back after such a serious injury half way through the season and hit top form immediately. To be safe we should not count Rojo as available at all next season.

Second this. Cannot take the risk of not having enough senior defender when something unexpected happens to the first team e.g. a very serious injury. Should keep them both at least until the end of this incoming season. But if I have to choose one, I will pick Jones because of his history with long injury. This is where the younglings like Tuanzebe and TFM might come in handy, although I would like for the former to gain his first team experience by going on loan.

 

[RDCR07]

Without a shadow of doubt, Jones!

 

[Freak]

I would keep both. Cannot expect Rojo to come back after such a serious injury half way through the season and hit top form immediately. To be safe we should not count Rojo as available at all next season.

Would rather sell both and get Keane back.

 

[RedChip]

Smalling should go. That would be best for both him and us. As I said earlier in the season in his performances tread, he has failed to mature with regard to composure and leading by example. He is just too jittery, not composed enough and rarely does anything progressive with the ball. He will be a stalwart for a team where his duty is to just defend and is not expected to be composed on the ball and build from the back.

If he is happy with being a squad player, then I would be happy for him to stay.

I would give Jones another lifeline to prove his fitness and development. If he misses another chunk off next season, then let him go too.

 

[RuudTom83]

Smalling can be a decent defender but he lacks leadership and is mentally weak, something Jose might not be able to accept in his CB.

Jones has his warrior heart but can't stay fit and he is very inconsistent.

Both are never going to be starters for a CL challenging side, which is what United should be aiming for.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I would keep both. Cannot expect Rojo to come back after such a serious injury half way through the season and hit top form immediately. To be safe we should not count Rojo as available at all next season.

This. As good as Rojo was playing before his injury (still surprised, but he's one of the best CBs in the league on form), we simply can't rely on him to come back from a serious injury at that level.

I can't believe that so many people believe that we have a CB pairing for the next decade. That's the kind of talk we had with Shaw. We've got 4 senior CB's, let them fight it out. Competition is good. Then come January, we can reassess, when Rojo returns.

Bailey is incredibly talented, but occasionally a bit reckless... injury and suspension kept him out of a fair few games.
Lindelof is a CB who is new to the Premier League (anyone remember Vidic's first few months? Stam's first 10 games?)

My question is, what would we get for Smalling or Jones? Both are good defenders, maybe not great ones, but an excellent backup level.

I don't want to sell Smalling to Arsenal and get £20m, only to see him play on the right of the back 3 and mark (lets say) Rashford out of the game...

Thinking over it, I was always more at ease when Jones played over Smalling last year, but Smalling is the one I would prefer not to have to play against. On his day he's a beast, we've just got to get his head sorted out!

 

[mirons]

Sell them both. And Blind. And Rojo too, if anyone picks him up.
Bring back Michael Keane.

Bailly and Lindelöf are by a mile the best 2.

Bailly, Lindelöf, Keane and Tuanzebe and we have our centre backs for the present and the future.

 

[Kag]

Its not even worth arguing when you bring up a game from 3 or 4 years ago.

His game has stood still for 5 years and he isn't good enough to start for United.

World class

Yet he was our best player the season before last when we had the second best defensive record in England. And this season, where he has played quite a lot, we have had one of the best defensive records in Europe over the calendar year. And also, again, the second best (or joint) defensive record in the country.

Cue some nonsense about Van Gaal setting us up negatively even though we had one of the highest defensive lines around...

So, yeah, you're wrong. Our defenders (Smalling included) are all very good. If I were you I'd cherish the lot of them, instead of praising some of the dump plying their trade elsewhere. I'm pleased we've bought some more quality in Lindelof, but he won't be getting us any further up the table. The only thing not good enough at United is the shambles of our attacking play. That's why we're shit. Not Smalling.

 

[Robertd0803]

The fact that Smalling got picked to play in the Europa League final ahead of Jones should really be all the indication we need. Im not Smallings biggest fan but Id keep him over Jones simply because he doesn't spend as much time injured.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Smalling is the lesser defender, but Jones can't stay fit, so it's a bit of a toss up.

 

[Vidyoyo]

I think both will stay until January when Rojo gets back but I had to decide who I wanted to stay, I'd choose Jones. His injury record is infuriating but he's more versatile than Smalling, who oftem looks great but only when played next to somebody who complements him perfectly (i.e. a ball playing CB like Blind). I also feel more comfortable with Jones coming off the bench to play out the final twenty minutes. Smalling just doesn't strike me as somebody who could do that well.

 

[The Mitcher]

Smalling is the lesser defender, but Jones can't stay fit, so it's a bit of a toss up.

The only thing Jones has that is better than smalling is his technique, other than that Smalling defends much better than Jones and dominates strikers more often.

 

[Green_Red]

Yet he was our best player the season before last when we had the second best defensive record in England. And this season, where he has played quite a lot, we have had one of the best defensive records in Europe over the calendar year. And also, again, the second best (or joint) defensive record in the country.

Cue some nonsense about Van Gaal setting us up negatively even though we had one of the highest defensive lines around...

So, yeah, you're wrong. Our defenders (Smalling included) are all very good. If I were you I'd cherish the lot of them, instead of praising some of the dump plying their trade elsewhere. I'm pleased we've bought some more quality in Lindelof, but he won't be getting us any further up the table. The only thing not good enough at United is the shambles of our attacking play. That's why we're shit. Not Smalling.

What's that all about? Are you having an imaginary argument with yourself and preempting what people are going to say?

It's impossible to argue a point with someone who keeps shifting the goalposts.

Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Smalling is not good enough for United, end of. Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Bruce, Pallister, Smalling... doesn't work does it. At 27 he hasn't fulfilled the potential that people seen in him when we signed him. Inconsistent. The fact that you're pointing to seasons ago... shows that.

 

[ilovethisgameahahah]

Both of them should be moved on with with another defender coming in, unless Jose trusts Tuanzebe enough to promote him to backup.

Yet he was our best player the season before last when we had the second best defensive record in England. And this season, where he has played quite a lot, we have had one of the best defensive records in Europe over the calendar year. And also, again, the second best (or joint) defensive record in the country.

Cue some nonsense about Van Gaal setting us up negatively even though we had one of the highest defensive lines around...

So, yeah, you're wrong. Our defenders (Smalling included) are all very good. If I were you I'd cherish the lot of them, instead of praising some of the dump plying their trade elsewhere. I'm pleased we've bought some more quality in Lindelof, but he won't be getting us any further up the table. The only thing not good enough at United is the shambles of our attacking play. That's why we're shit. Not Smalling.

Smalling was average under Van Gaal because he was allowed to play man to man, meaning he didn't have to use the turd in his skull to defend. The fact he hasn't improved at all in 7 years is grounds to kick him out of the door.

 

[flappyjay]

It's not jus the EL final but whenever he was fit Jose has played Smalling and breaking every decent looking partnership to play him. That on its own shows Jose trusts smalling and if anyone gets sold amongst the cb's it will probably be Jones. As some have said it would be best to keep them both atleast until January.

 

[lem8sh]

In terms of ability Jones is miles ahead of Smalling. No contest.

 

[bobglory]

Smalling is a top defender, IMO the best at the club. Doubt he is going anywhere. He started both winning cup final games and clearly has a role to play. I can't think of a good reason why Jose would sell him unless he asked to leave, which seems unlikely.

on the wacky backy last night?

hes damn awful , when ever he has the ball he puts the whole team under pressure because he cant pass . better than bailly ? christ .

jones is too injury prone and should go also .

 

[surf]

on the wacky backy last night?

hes damn awful , when ever he has the ball he puts the whole team under pressure because he cant pass . better than bailly ? christ .

jones is too injury prone and should go also .

Erm ... ridiculously exaggerated and short-sighted post. I would trust Jose's rating above yours and the fact is Smalling starts most games when fit, including the important ones. Jose doesn't strike me as the kind of manager to tolerate "damn awful" players.

Whether Smalling is a better player than Bailly or the others is debatable of course, but I do think he defends better than the others. He has shown it plenty of times, to the extent that he was the players' player of the season under van Gaal. I'd like him to get back to that standard and don't see why he shouldn't be able to if he can get over the frequent disruptive injuries. It will be an interesting contest for playing time between all the centre backs.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I would Keep Smalling. He has done more for us so far and although being limited as Footballer I think he is more reliable and not so injury prone (that can Change however pretty fast).

 

[bobglory]

Erm ... ridiculously exaggerated and short-sighted post. I would trust Jose's rating above yours and the fact is Smalling starts most games when fit, including the important ones. Jose doesn't strike me as the kind of manager to tolerate "damn awful" players.

Whether Smalling is a better player than Bailly or the others is debatable of course, but I do think he defends better than the others. He has shown it plenty of times, to the extent that he was the players' player of the season under van Gaal. I'd like him to get back to that standard and don't see why he shouldn't be able to if he can get over the frequent disruptive injuries. It will be an interesting contest for playing time between all the centre backs.

i'm exaggerating when you put smalling and our best defender in the same sentence

whats short sighted about thinking he isn't good enough to play for manchester united? is he in the class of ferdinand , vidic , stam , etc ? hes a beast of a man 1v1 but hes a dope and cant pass the ball under any bit of pressure and i don't usually beat on any of our players but i hate seeing this guy on the pitch .
this season he will be on the bench or he will be gone hopefully, you call me short sighted but if the dopes on the bench does that not take away game time from TFM and Tuanzebe the future ?

 

[top1whoisman]

Smalling's changed his agent today, for what it's worth.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Smalling is better than Jones in pretty much every aspect apart from dribbling.