Smalling / SIGNED for Roma

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Either Smalling is the most overrated defender of all time or our current options are being severely underrated but Maguire is better by a mile and Lindelof and Bailly on form are both far better too. There's a reason top coaches wouldn't touch him with a barge pole and that's his shocking ability on the ball. Smalling was an average player who happened to stay fit the most amongst some absolute dross but he's never been the required quality.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Either Smalling is the most overrated defender of all time or our current options are being severely underrated but Maguire is better by a mile and Lindelof and Bailly on form are both far better too. There's a reason top coaches wouldn't touch him with a barge pole and that's his shocking ability on the ball. Smalling was an average player who happened to stay fit the most amongst some absolute dross but he's never been the required quality.

I think you are seriously underrating him. I don’t see anyone claiming he’s a great defender. However, he’s a good one, and proved so during the decade he has been at Utd. United have bought lots of CBs, and he’s been better than all of them except Maguire, who he’s never played with.

Is he good enough as first choice in a title winning team, no.

But he is better than everyone else at the club not called Maguire.

I’m a big supporter of the manager, but think he’s got this a little wrong, and should have given him a chance last year. However, having said that, he’s the only defender at the club with any resale value. Would anyone contemplate paying £20m for Lindelof, Bailly, Rojo it Jones? No. The last two we can’t give away even for free.

He wants to play first team football, and we can actually get some money for him. So he should go for those reasons, it’s frustrating that we will be left with a cohort of far poorer CBs.

 

[GifLord]

I think you are seriously underrating him. I don’t see anyone claiming he’s a great defender. However, he’s a good one, and proved so during the decade he has been at Utd. United have bought lots of CBs, and he’s been better than all of them except Maguire, who he’s never played with.

Is he good enough as first choice in a title winning team, no.

But he is better than everyone else at the club not called Maguire.

I’m a big supporter of the manager, but think he’s got this a little wrong, and should have given him a chance last year. However, having said that, he’s the only defender at the club with any resale value. Would anyone contemplate paying £20m for Lindelof, Bailly, Rojo it Jones? No. The last two we can’t give away even for free.

He wants to play first team football, and we can actually get some money for him. So he should go for those reasons, it’s frustrating that we will be left with a cohort of far poorer CBs.

His last season at Roma was overrated - he had a decent 3 months and the rest was average with some iffy performances. Not to mention he went to an INFERIOR league. But here we are still talking about how good he is. If he was THAT GOOD he'd already be playing at a decent club. Where are all the offers for him? The only club semi interested is Roma. And we all know how good Roma is don't we?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

His last season at Roma was overrated - he had a decent 3 months and the rest was average with some iffy performances. Not to mention he went to an INFERIOR league. But here we are still talking about how good he is. If he was THAT GOOD he'd already be playing at a decent club. Where are all the offers for him? The only club semi interested is Roma. And we all know how good Roma is don't we?

No need for the capitals.

It looks to me like a done deal to Roma, hence the fact no one else is coming in for him. Clearly all of Roma, United and Smalling want the deal to happen. It’s just price that need a to be agreed.

 

[manunited1919]

I wonder if DDG would rather have Smalling/Maguire in front of him or Lindelof/Maguire. I suspect in many situations he would prefer Smalling/Maguire. But it’s the manager’s decision.

 

[Lennon7]

£20m isn’t bad from our point of view for someone of his quality and age in 2020.

He’d definitely be a sturdier option than say Lindelof but we can use that £20m to get another centre back in.

 

[sullydnl]

Our management fundamentally want our CBs to be better on the ball that a player like Smalling is capable of being. Maguire and Lindelof aren't exactly prime Beckenbauer either, but both are still comfortably better in that aspect of the game than he is.

Arguing about whether he's better overall than Lindelof or whatever is sidestepping the key point, which is that we're prioritising qualities in our CBs that don't suit him. Not much to say about it beyond that really.

Beyond that, he's a 30 year old we can actually get some money on. Our other defenders are either people we won't get as much for or people who will hold their value for a lot longer.

 

[kopviolator]

I'd take him over Lindelof any day. Better in the air, stronger, probably quicker.

His ball handling skills are obviously a problem in the PL

 

[Isotope]

No need for the capitals.

It looks to me like a done deal to Roma, hence the fact no one else is coming in for him. Clearly all of Roma, United and Smalling want the deal to happen. It’s just price that need a to be agreed.

It seems like we just won’t sell to PL teams, or Smalking has his heart set only on Roma.
Anyway, with him training separately, it’s showing he’ll be gone.

 

[Bepi]

Roma is moving on to Brazilian 25yo CB Lucas Verissimo from Santos, who is available for €5m.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It's clearly popular to bash Lindelof at the moment based on a poor run of form but he's clearly better than Smalling in many departments;

- Ball playing
- Positioning
- Dealing with low crosses (Smalling always looked like he was gonna shank it into his own goal).
- Communication (Smalling always seemed very shy on the pitch).

I think Smalling is a much more physical player, quicker (although Lindelof is not as slow as made out) and much stronger, especially in the air but he's a liability with the ball at his feet and we are trying to move forward as a team rather than just treading water again. Smalling isn't and really hasn't ever been the solution.

 

[RU Devil]

I wonder if DDG would rather have Smalling/Maguire in front of him or Lindelof/Maguire. I suspect in many situations he would prefer Smalling/Maguire. But it’s the manager’s decision.

DDG probably would be more comfortable with Smalling. Lindelof has been very suspect lately, and I'm sure DDG would rather not be exposed due to Lindelof's deficiencies.

If Smalling was the RCB, instead of the LCB, it definitely would making playing out of the back that much harder. Him & AWB would seem to have 4 left feet between them. Odd to think that Smalling was used as a RB at Utd not so long ago. At least he'd offer more of a target on set pieces, as he's definitely more adept at that end than Lindelof and would make it easier for Maguire since he's targeted as the main option.

 

[christinaa]

Smalling and Maguire might be a better central defence.

 

[yan man utd]

Smalling is a good player in a certain style but a ball playing defender he is not, and that's the direction we seem to be moving in (even though we can't play out from the back to save our lives).

He's also one of the few players we want to sell who has any resale value.

Nothing personal but whoever keeps talking about needing ball playing defenders I have to disagree with wholeheartedly when we have conceded 5 goals against 2 average teams.

anyone would think that lindelof is like Ronald Koeman or beckenbauer or franco baresi. Was Maldini a great ball player or puyol or vidic

lindeloff is a player strikers WANT to play against. This encourages the opposing team because both he and Maguire are not out and out defenders.. this makes it harder for our midfield players to take a grip on the game because they are already on the back foot

we can’t afford to buy an expensive defender so keep Smalling - watch how he intimidates attackers and he is tenacious. How can anyone think effing lindeloff is a step up
He probable does want to leave - but why? He can see he is better and can offer more

we need a creative and intelligent playmaking DM- not mctominay and Matic is too old.

it is astonishing that our weaknesses have still not been addressed

We are Manchester United. 5 goals conceded first 2 games... give me a break

 

[SlimDizzle075]

Does it make sense to lose arguably a first choice central defender to Roma for the budget price of £20m?

At a time when our defence is under question, to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when our transfer dealings are at a dead end.

Mindboggling.

He isn't a first choice defender, he isnt even 3rd choice, so why keep him when we can get 20mil for him?

 

[Champagne Football]

For years most Utd fans have groaned that we have to put up with Smalling and Jones, now we finally get some offers for Smalling and suddenly we'd be mad to sell.

Mkhitaryan is slowly becoming a star again at Roma and he couldn't even make it at Arsenal.

We need to take the money and run if we get an offer for Smalling. Tuanzebe is a much bigger talent if he can stay fit. Mengi also could become something big. I think defensively we can cope at least until January with what we have, then take stock in January and see if either Tuanzebe or Mengi is developing enough to not need another CB signing.

 

[croadyman]

For years most Utd fans have groaned that we have to put up with Smalling and Jones, now we finally get some offers for Smalling and suddenly we'd be mad to sell.

Mkhitaryan is slowly becoming a star again at Roma and he couldn't even make it at Arsenal.

We need to take the money and run if we get an offer for Smalling. Tuanzebe is a much bigger talent if he can stay fit. Mengi also could become something big. I think defensively we can cope at least until January with what we have, then take stock in January and see if either Tuanzebe or Mengi is developing enough to not need another CB signing.

That sounds like a very sensible approach

 

[Isotope]

We need to take the money and run if we get an offer for Smalling. Tuanzebe is a much bigger talent if he can stay fit. Mengi also could become something big. I think defensively we can cope at least until January with what we have, then take stock in January and see if either Tuanzebe or Mengi is developing enough to not need another CB signing.

That's just unnecessary gambling on things with no data to back it up. There are bigger chance that neither of these will happen.

 

[Banana Republic]

........why keep him when we can get 20mil for him?

The problem is we can't get that £20m for him and that's the sticking point.
That's the figure being touted by the media and various pundits as being Utd's asking price, but who knows for sure if that's true or just speculation?
The problem is that Roma are only offering around half of whatever Utd have asked for.

If Utd hold out for anything close to their full asking price, whether it really is £20m or not, then no deal will be done and Smalling will remain a Utd player and on the clubs wages.

 

[Tel074]

Does it make sense to lose arguably a first choice central defender to Roma for the budget price of £20m?

At a time when our defence is under question, to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when our transfer dealings are at a dead end.

Mindboggling.

The same Smalling who was blasted on here for being terrible then when he plays a season in a terrible league he's now our best defender again ..if we get 20 million for him then it's a good deal

 

[TwoSheds]

Nothing personal but whoever keeps talking about needing ball playing defenders I have to disagree with wholeheartedly when we have conceded 5 goals against 2 average teams.

anyone would think that lindelof is like Ronald Koeman or beckenbauer or franco baresi. Was Maldini a great ball player or puyol or vidic

lindeloff is a player strikers WANT to play against. This encourages the opposing team because both he and Maguire are not out and out defenders.. this makes it harder for our midfield players to take a grip on the game because they are already on the back foot

we can’t afford to buy an expensive defender so keep Smalling - watch how he intimidates attackers and he is tenacious. How can anyone think effing lindeloff is a step up
He probable does want to leave - but why? He can see he is better and can offer more

we need a creative and intelligent playmaking DM- not mctominay and Matic is too old.

it is astonishing that our weaknesses have still not been addressed

We are Manchester United. 5 goals conceded first 2 games... give me a break

Maldini was a great ball player yes, one of the very best. And Puyol and Vidic were significantly better than Smalling in that regard too.

Not that I'd be against Smalling being given another chance here, I really hate watching Lindelof, but we can't afford to have 5000 average CBs forever, if we can get £15-20m for Smalling then that would be a pretty decent deal.

 

[Chief123]

Does it make sense to lose arguably a first choice central defender to Roma for the budget price of £20m?

At a time when our defence is under question, to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when our transfer dealings are at a dead end.

Mindboggling.

I can see why Smalling keeps cropping up in conversation.

But my honest opinion is, he is not useful to us any longer simply because of the way Ole and most top teams want to play. All successful teams are playing out from the back (even from goal kicks).

As flawed as Lindelof and Maguire are with defending at times, they are both very comfortable with the ball at their feet.

Bringing smalling back may strengthen us in “defending” situations but it will bring other problems with it. We simply can not afford to have Smalling and AWB playing side by side and receiving the ball to feet. We will get pressed as we already are doing with AWB and teams will suss out their inability to keep the ball well.

 

[Ekeke]

I can see why Smalling keeps cropping up in conversation.

But my honest opinion is, he is not useful to us any longer simply because of the way Ole and most top teams want to play. All successful teams are playing out from the back (even from goal kicks).

As flawed as Lindelof and Maguire are with defending at times, they are both very comfortable with the ball at their feet.

Bringing smalling back may strengthen us in “defending” situations but it will bring other problems with it. We simply can not afford to have Smalling and AWB playing side by side and receiving the ball to feet. We will get pressed as we already are doing with AWB and teams will suss out their inability to keep the ball well.

We dont have a problem with pressing. We never did. Teams that are "playing the ball out of the back" have a problem with pressing because its tough and only a handful of players are actually good at it and usually dont make any mistakes. Its why teams like Liverpool press. You could see it again today against Arsenal, we've never had a problem playing Liverpool like Arsenal did today losing the ball like that.

 

[Chief123]

We dont have a problem with pressing. We never did. Teams that are "playing the ball out of the back" have a problem with pressing because its tough and only a handful of players are actually good at it and usually dont make any mistakes. Its why teams like Liverpool press. You could see it again today against Arsenal, we've never had a problem playing Liverpool like Arsenal did today losing the ball like that.

Every time AWB gets pressed we have a major problem. That would mean we do have a problem with being pressed. Add Smalling to that and it’s an even bigger problem.

 

[Irrational.]

He's been with us a decade. If we don't sell him now then he'll be with us forever.

 

[Ekeke]

Every time AWB gets pressed we have a major problem. That would mean we do have a problem with being pressed. Add Smalling to that and it’s an even bigger problem.

No, a major problem would be our defenders handing the ball over to the pressing attacking players who get a chance at goal. Thats what happens to the players trying to play there way out of everything, those are the chances consistantly given up. Players like AWB and Smalling know they arent Xavi or Iniesta and arent taking the same chances, they are trying to do less with the ball but dont feed into what the press is all about - stealing the ball high up the pitch with your attacking players so that you get chances.

The best way to play against pressing is to test their high line with runners. You don't do that with short passing through the middle, you do that with a measured pass for players to run onto

I say again when you are pressing you want players who are confident taking the ball into their feet and looking around for teammates to play intricate passes to. Thats how you steal the ball, not from the sensible and safe passes that a less gifted player will choose.

 

[Chief123]

No, a major problem would be our defenders handing the ball over to the pressing attacking players who get a chance at goal. Thats what happens to the players trying to play there way out of everything, those are the chances consistantly given up. Players like AWB and Smalling know they arent Xavi or Iniesta and arent taking the same chances, they are trying to do less with the ball but dont feed into what the press is all about - stealing the ball high up the pitch with your attacking players so that you get chances.

The best way to play against pressing is to test their high line with runners. You don't do that with short passing through the middle, you do that with a measured pass for players to run onto

I say again when you are pressing you want players who are confident taking the ball into their feet and looking around for teammates to play intricate passes to. Thats how you steal the ball, not from the sensible and safe passes that a less gifted player will choose.

Not sure if you watched the game against Brighton. AWB getting pressed and losing the ball lead to Brighton’s first penalty.

AWB has a major problem with being pressed because his ball control is not great. Surely you can see that?

 

[MIC_FIN]

Deadwood out, then we can move on

 

[TwoSheds]

We dont have a problem with pressing. We never did. Teams that are "playing the ball out of the back" have a problem with pressing because its tough and only a handful of players are actually good at it and usually dont make any mistakes. Its why teams like Liverpool press. You could see it again today against Arsenal, we've never had a problem playing Liverpool like Arsenal did today losing the ball like that.

I more or less agree with this, it's the fashion right now but it actually doesn't seem to benefit a lot of teams who do it because the forwards and midfielders are generally better at defending and pressing than the defenders are at playing the ball around.

Obviously the more ballers you have at the back the more options you have in terms of playing it short, playing it long, dribbling, whatever, so really a top team should have 4 competent ball players but equally, it doesn't mean it's ok to have a shite defender just for the sake of having 4 ball players. Personally I'd say 2 and a half ballers and 4 good defenders could be a better compromise than what we've got now.

 

[Ekeke]

Not sure if you watched the game against Brighton. AWB getting pressed and losing the ball lead to Brighton’s first penalty.

AWB has a major problem with being pressed because his ball control is not great. Surely you can see that?

He is tackled, thats something every player will experience. He needs to be stronger there thats all. If no player is allowed to ever be tackled we'd need to replace the whole team

 

[RedPed]

If he's that good (which don't get me mistaken, he clearly is not). he should go back to Fulham, help them shore up that lightweight defence and save them a disastrous return to the Prem. That's his level now.

 

[yan man utd]

Guys - this playing out from the back with the defenders we have is not working!

5 goals conceded 2 matches

a great team is founded on a strong defence and defenders that scare opposition- how do we benefit from selling Smalling if we dont have an affordable replacement?!

it’s ridiculous! Keep him until we find someone adequate to replace him - lindeloff is not that guy and the jury is out on maguire and let’s not even mention AWB
plus get rid of Jones and Tojo before you get rid of Smalling. A decent centre half is upwards of 60 million!
talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul...
We need a proper DM anyway and a right winger
Why is Neves not even mentioned.

and also Pogba isn’t worth 20 million now the way he is playing

 

[TwoSheds]

Guys - this playing out from the back with the defenders we have is not working!

5 goals conceded 2 matches

a great team is founded on a strong defence and defenders that scare opposition- how do we benefit from selling Smalling if we dont have an affordable replacement?!

it’s ridiculous! Keep him until we find someone adequate to replace him - lindeloff is not that guy and the jury is out on maguire and let’s not even mention AWB
plus get rid of Jones and Tojo before you get rid of Smalling. A decent centre half is upwards of 60 million!
talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul...
We need a proper DM anyway and a right winger
Why is Neves not even mentioned.

and also Pogba isn’t worth 20 million now the way he is playing

How much did Arsenal just pay for Magalhaes then? Or Skriniar at Spurs? You sound a little hysterical.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Smalling doesn't even want to be here anymore. He got to play at a great level for himself in Rome. Let him go so he can close this chapter.

 

[Isotope]

Smalling doesn't even want to be here anymore. He got to play at a great level for himself in Rome. Let him go so he can close this chapter.

Tell that to Ed. All of us here don't have any power to sell or buy player.

 

[yan man utd]

How much did Arsenal just pay for Magalhaes then? Or Skriniar at Spurs? You sound a little hysterical.

Bro we paid 80 million for Maguire and 40 for lindelof!
Do you have confidence in our board/ Ole to get someone good for that price - that’s my point.
Hysterical? Yes the whole situation is hysterical!

 

[yan man utd]

Players like Smalling win the ball high up the pitch because they are aggressive this helps us contain the ball closer to our attacking players. We are literally encouraging the opposition to press us in deep areas close to our goal because they are passive plus de geas distribution does not help. The further back we have to distribute the more we encourage the oppositions press - as we have discovered in just the first 2 matches!!!

 

[Wumminator]

I like Smalling. I think he was a great player at our club.
He is 31 in a month and this is the last chance we will get to sell him for a decent price. We have similar defenders at his level who are younger and we have to raise some money.

In the long term, it makes sense.

 

[Andersonson]

Because he is shit, just because our defence is not where it needs to be doesn't mean we retain crap players.

Shit is a stretch. Would be our 3rd best defender. Better than Bailly and Jones.

Getting 20m for a soon to be 31 year old average player is decent, but I much rather have him along with a fit Tuanzebe as backups than Bailly /Jones.

But he wants to go, he wants to play. Its only fair to let him go. The money could free up for Telles or somebody else.

 

[Marcus]

I think there was some concensus that Smalling in the age of VAR is a penalty conceding disaster waiting to happen. So while he is a good pure defender, it may no longer be a time for one such as he.