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Smalling / SIGNED for Roma

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Sandikan

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Better than anyone we have bar Maguire.
That's the crux of the issue.

However no doubt we'll sell him soon..nowhere near 20m though. It'll probably be about half that knowing us and tightwad Italian clubs.
 

TwoSheds

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Bro we paid 80 million for Maguire and 40 for lindelof!
Do you have confidence in our board/ Ole to get someone good for that price - that’s my point.
Hysterical? Yes the whole situation is hysterical!
No we didn't bro but ok.
 

UmbroDays

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No, a major problem would be our defenders handing the ball over to the pressing attacking players who get a chance at goal. Thats what happens to the players trying to play there way out of everything, those are the chances consistantly given up. Players like AWB and Smalling know they arent Xavi or Iniesta and arent taking the same chances, they are trying to do less with the ball but dont feed into what the press is all about - stealing the ball high up the pitch with your attacking players so that you get chances.

The best way to play against pressing is to test their high line with runners. You don't do that with short passing through the middle, you do that with a measured pass for players to run onto

I say again when you are pressing you want players who are confident taking the ball into their feet and looking around for teammates to play intricate passes to. Thats how you steal the ball, not from the sensible and safe passes that a less gifted player will choose.
That’s not true at all.

Go watch MotD2 and see how Leicester middle 2 played against City’s high press.

Pass and move, pass and move, then you’re past the first level of high-press which are the strikers and midfield. It literally was Leicester's bread and butter in that game and even better to watch with video analysis.

We are conflating the idea of ball carrying defenders with overall quality when in reality the defender just needs one pass out from the back that is not parallel or behind. We just don’t have the midfield movement for that.

Pogba or Marci are normally the only ones waiting for a pass and then there is no off the ball movement and things slow down. That’s why it looks like we have non-ball playing defenders.

AWB looks shit against the high press because he has no options. James who is always stationary, or Sideways to Pog or Maticor behind to Lindeloff or Mags. We get someone coming short then no movement after that. We can’t play tiki-taka against the high press, we simply don’t have the off the ball movement drilled into our players.
 

CG1010

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I swear his defensive capabilities are getting exaggerated due to his lack of capabilities in other areas of football. He is an okayish defender but people have forgotten how open we have been defensively in the past and how he has been prone to lapses. Someone called him a "supreme" defender a few pages ago!
 

Isotope

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Yeah i am screaming at the moon. Fishing for people to agree.
:lol: In the past, we always let go a good servant on cheap. Just to reward for their long career and dedication. Now it's all about balance sheets.
 
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Ekeke

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That’s not true at all.

Go watch MotD2 and see how Leicester middle 2 played against City’s high press.

Pass and move, pass and move, then you’re past the first level of high-press which are the strikers and midfield. It literally was Leicester's bread and butter in that game and even better to watch with video analysis.

We are conflating the idea of ball carrying defenders with overall quality when in reality the defender just needs one pass out from the back that is not parallel or behind. We just don’t have the midfield movement for that.

Pogba or Marci are normally the only ones waiting for a pass and then there is no off the ball movement and things slow down. That’s why it looks like we have non-ball playing defenders.

AWB looks shit against the high press because he has no options. James who is always stationary, or Sideways to Pog or Maticor behind to Lindeloff or Mags. We get someone coming short then no movement after that. We can’t play tiki-taka against the high press, we simply don’t have the off the ball movement drilled into our players.
No its completely true. To press you have to have a high line, so having Vardy as a player up front to find with a longer pass into space is the most dangerous option. They also have Barnes they can release early on the left with his pace. Thats how Leicester play
 

UmbroDays

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No its completely true. To press you have to have a high line, so having Vardy as a player up front to find with a longer pass into space is the most dangerous option. They also have Barnes they can release early on the left with his pace. Thats how Leicester play
It is a way but againstCity that’s not what they did. Fletcher pointed out exactly what they did and they didn’t play many long balls. It was all intricate middle of the park play.
 

Ekeke

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It is a way but againstCity that’s not what they did. Fletcher pointed out exactly what they did and they didn’t play many long balls. It was all intricate middle of the park play.
It was some play in the middle of the park. And it was by their DM just before the half way line Nampalys Mendy, not their "ball playing" CBs. Mendy can take chances knowing theres a defence behind him, the defenders cant
 

Untd55

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Smalling is a better defender than Maguire. He can do everything Maguire can, but he also has pace.

Poor decision paying £80m for a player that is worse at defending than the one you are trying to get rid of for cheap.
 

Bastian

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Smalling is a better defender than Maguire. He can do everything Maguire can, but he also has pace.

Poor decision paying £80m for a player that is worse at defending than the one you are trying to get rid of for cheap.
That's not true now is it, whilst I don't think Maguire is worth more than half of what we paid. Smalling's footwork and longer passing is not of the same level. And his reputation has never been as big as when he went on loan, for some reason.
 
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Smalling is a better defender than Maguire. He can do everything Maguire can, but he also has pace.

Poor decision paying £80m for a player that is worse at defending than the one you are trying to get rid of for cheap.
I like Smalling, but he’s not a better defender than Maguire. He has better pace, but doesn’t everyone. There’s been a good argument that he could be a better partner to Maguire than anyone else at the club, and I would have at least liked to have seen that. However, he’s clearly not in the managers plans.
 

C'mon FC

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What has become of Man Utd? A team whichs ambition is to win the Champions league, is depating if a player like Smalling should stay or not!
A team like Utd should have at least 1 of the top 10 CBs in it's sqaud or rather 2 top 15 CBs. Smalling is not even top 20. Senseless debate!
 

Woodenlung

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I don't know where this sentiment of Smalling actually being any good is coming from. He's had a decade at United to cement a starting place, but he's never been good enough. He had one genuinely impressive season under LVG five years ago, but that's it.

It's frustrating holding out for £20m for a player that's never been good enough and who clearly isn't in the managers plans. Sell for like £15m and put that money towards a deal for Telles.
 

Untd55

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That's not true now is it, whilst I don't think Maguire is worth more than half of what we paid. Smalling's footwork and longer passing is not of the same level. And his reputation has never been as big as when he went on loan, for some reason.
I'm talking about defending here; the primary job of a defender. Can you say that Smalling is worse in any area of defending? Factor in that he isnt as slow as a barge, and you have a better defender.

Maguire is a better passer, but somewhat overrated. I haven't been impressed since people were bigging it up when we signed him. They were clearly going over the top.
 

Andycoleno9

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Smalling is a better defender than Maguire. He can do everything Maguire can, but he also has pace.

Poor decision paying £80m for a player that is worse at defending than the one you are trying to get rid of for cheap.
Maguire has his flaws and is hugely overpayed but he is better than Smalling. The thing which i rate in Maguire's game (and Lindelof's) is that he is calm. Smalling is to nervous for my taste and has tendency to panic. His main thought is to clear the ball while Maguire thinks how to keep that ball. I like that. There is no need to kick every ball out of play. You can keep it sometimes.
 

Posh Red

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I'm talking about defending here; the primary job of a defender. Can you say that Smalling is worse in any area of defending? Factor in that he isnt as slow as a barge, and you have a better defender.

Maguire is a better passer, but somewhat overrated. I haven't been impressed since people were bigging it up when we signed him. They were clearly going over the top.
The truth is the very best teams don’t tend to have players like smalling in defence anymore.
 

reelworld

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Maguire has his flaws and is hugely overpayed but he is better than Smalling. The thing which i rate in Maguire's game (and Lindelof's) is that he is calm. Smalling is to nervous for my taste and has tendency to panic. His main thought is to clear the ball while Maguire thinks how to keep that ball. I like that. There is no need to kick every ball out of play. You can keep it sometimes.
My argument is that Maguire sometimes overplayed on keeping the ball, and that resulted in him losing the ball in dangerous areas.
 

Zlatattack

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I think if it's a matter of a few million quid, we should let Chris Smalling go. He's served our club well, he deserves to be able to play regular first team football. If he can have that at Roma and he's happy to be living and playing in Italy, we should tell Roma to offer a decent bid and let him go. We need to think about this from the players perspective too.
 

Jaxa

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Smalling is a better defender than Maguire. He can do everything Maguire can, but he also has pace.

Poor decision paying £80m for a player that is worse at defending than the one you are trying to get rid of for cheap.
Thats a whole lot of sh*t right there, we had i think the 3rd best defence in terms of goals conceded last season and that was with a leaky david de gea in the sticks, we shipped far more goals when our defence was Lindelof and Smalling with a very inform De Gea in goal, let's not get carried away and pretend Maguire hasn't improved the back line, maybe not as much as an 80m signing should but it has improved.
 

GoldanoGraham

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I think if it's a matter of a few million quid, we should let Chris Smalling go. He's served our club well, he deserves to be able to play regular first team football. If he can have that at Roma and he's happy to be living and playing in Italy, we should tell Roma to offer a decent bid and let him go. We need to think about this from the players perspective too.
I feel for Smalling - we seem to be just as ineffective at concluding a sale as we are at a purchase......surely surely can’t be that hard to strike a deal with a payment structure that suits all......then move onto more challenging tasks like shifting Jones & Rojo
 

The Boy

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I think if it's a matter of a few million quid, we should let Chris Smalling go. He's served our club well, he deserves to be able to play regular first team football. If he can have that at Roma and he's happy to be living and playing in Italy, we should tell Roma to offer a decent bid and let him go. We need to think about this from the players perspective too.
This

The club doesn't want him and he doesn't want the club. He's played well for you for years and you've had the vast majority of his career, now he wants first team football still and for him the way to do that is to see out his time in Italy, let him go and do what he wants he deserves it.
 

lysglimt

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Ole signed off on a 5 year deal for Jones, and was oddly fine with spunking £80m on Maguire so I'd argue he has a misled approach to defenders.
Well he wasn't our permanent manager so I doubt he had much say in that - and it was a 4 + 1 deal - but yes, we should have not given him that contract.

I still find it strange that not one club is interested in signing Jones. He is not good enough for us - but he is a hell of a lot better than anything WBA and Fulham have
 

VP89

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Well he wasn't our permanent manager so I doubt he had much say in that - and it was a 4 + 1 deal - but yes, we should have not given him that contract.

I still find it strange that not one club is interested in signing Jones. He is not good enough for us - but he is a hell of a lot better than anything WBA and Fulham have
Quite sure he said he was consulted on these sorts of matters even during his time as caretaker.
 

Revan

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Well he wasn't our permanent manager so I doubt he had much say in that - and it was a 4 + 1 deal - but yes, we should have not given him that contract.

I still find it strange that not one club is interested in signing Jones. He is not good enough for us - but he is a hell of a lot better than anything WBA and Fulham have
He is too injury prone and too expensive (salary wise) to make sense for those clubs, despite being better than their CBS.
 

Dirty Schwein

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I swear his defensive capabilities are getting exaggerated due to his lack of capabilities in other areas of football. He is an okayish defender but people have forgotten how open we have been defensively in the past and how he has been prone to lapses. Someone called him a "supreme" defender a few pages ago!
He is prone to lapses but Lindelof is exactly the same when it comes to that. In fact, he seems to make more mistakes than Smelling did.

I'm not saying Mike Smalling is the answer but at least he'll be fit to play unlike Jones and Bailly who always seem to be injured.

It gives us a little time to find the right CB no?
 

Clermontois

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Thats a whole lot of sh*t right there, we had i think the 3rd best defence in terms of goals conceded last season and that was with a leaky david de gea in the sticks, we shipped far more goals when our defence was Lindelof and Smalling with a very inform De Gea in goal, let's not get carried away and pretend Maguire hasn't improved the back line, maybe not as much as an 80m signing should but it has improved.
The team's play as a whole has improved but the defense is no better at all. As they the best form of defense is offense and we are better in attack than we were with the previous manager even if we seem to have been found out recently.

Also Smalling and Bailly are better than Maguire, it is not even a question. Maguire was never worth 80mil not even close and if we were to sell him today we would struggle to get 40mil.
 

GoldanoGraham

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Just responding to the headline - it’s not certain we are going to sell him - he has been messed about royally by our complete inability to confirm a deal.....it’s like we are trying to hold out for a late higher bid......our strategy is the same when buying players as selling them - communicate with lots of people and lead them on and end up pissing off everyone and achieving nothing......

what a strategy
 

Sandikan

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The team's play as a whole has improved but the defense is no better at all. As they the best form of defense is offense and we are better in attack than we were with the previous manager even if we seem to have been found out recently.

Also Smalling and Bailly are better than Maguire, it is not even a question. Maguire was never worth 80mil not even close and if we were to sell him today we would struggle to get 40mil.
I think it definitely is :lol:
And a question that ends with "don't be silly, of course they're not better. Even combined".
 

scudetto_boy

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He is going for far, far less than £20!! In an era when quality central defenders are incredibly sought after -& we all know this guy has an abundance of high-level experience- why are we allowing him to leave? I suspect he wants to leave, his mind is made up & there is nothing we can do to make him to stay.
 

Ranchero

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The same Smalling who was blasted on here for being terrible then when he plays a season in a terrible league he's now our best defender again ..if we get 20 million for him then it's a good deal
The fact he is blasted on here is not a barometer of his quality, now, is it.
 
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Does it make sense to lose arguably a first choice central defender to Roma for the budget price of £20m?

At a time when our defence is under question, to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when our transfer dealings are at a dead end.

Mindboggling.
its very good money. What's mind boggling is we won't spend any of that to strengthen the team when it's needed
 

Tel074

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The fact he is blasted on here is not a barometer of his quality, now, is it.
Exactly I agree as I was one of the very few saying we were crazy letting him go on loan while at the time keeping Jones and Rojo .
 

Clermontois

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I think it definitely is :lol:
And a question that ends with "don't be silly, of course they're not better. Even combined".
:lol:...then after saying that you look around and realize all your life has been spent in the twilight zone.

Maguire cannot lace the boots of either player lad.
 

Sandikan

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:lol:...then after saying that you look around and realize all your life has been spent in the twilight zone.

Maguire cannot lace the boots of either player lad.
I doubt many if any will share your opinion.

Bailly will be playing for a relegation battler in England or Spain, or in a minor league in a season or 2.
 
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