Lindelof having ball playing abilities as a defender is a myth panics every time he receives the ball even when there is no pressure around him.
Smalling v Lindelof Comparison Thread
- Thread starter Sultan
- Start date
Said for years now, Smalling was our best CB prior to signing Maguire, I think he’s a better fit for Maguire and have posted that many times.
If we cannot sign another CB this window that fits the bill I’d absolutely give him a run next to Maguire.
If we cannot sign another CB this window that fits the bill I’d absolutely give him a run next to Maguire.
We won't ever get better if we keep rewarding poor performances. Lindelof has been questionable for a few games now. Poor against Chelsea, again against Sevilla and yesterday was absolutely terrible. Needs some time on the bench.
Exactly, he's been terrible many times and starts the next match anyway.
We have nobody else. Lindelof for his faults can play to our system and mostly does the job expected of him. A calm, predictable and settled centre back pairing is massively important, more so than any individual player.
I would happily see Bailly get a chance next game but when he has one of his 'days' you can see the whole team break down as they have no idea what's coming next. I'd love to see him iron it out of his game but it gets less likely with every passing year. It's the same problem with Smalling as everybody changes their game to play around his flaws. You can't build a team with that present.
Otherwise we have Jones, who is useless, Rojo, who is usually our best defender until the red mist descends (and it always descends), and Tuanzebe, a borderline youth player who looks increasingly unlikely to make it here. We need to upgrade but Lindelof will do until other positions have been sorted.
I will take Smalling over Lindelof any day. Both are not good enough for our team but atleast Smalling is actually good at defending.
When blind used to play CB people used to moan and say he isnt physical enoughGoing from Blind to Lindelof and spending something like 30 million euros for the pleasure is a big reason why we are where we are isn’t it. Hiring and firing managers is fine but the club obviously needs an ever present figure to make sure this kind of thing doesn’t keep happening. I’m sure The Sun and Daily Mail will have some bogus DOF articles soon.
Let's not get carried away with Smalling but he definitely deserves another chance.
Lindelöf is becoming our John Stones.
Lindelöf is becoming our John Stones.
I would take Stones over him in a heartbeat. But probably a good comparison to another expensive centre back who cannot defend.
Call me old fashioned, but I like my CB's to be good defenders. To have good anticipation, quick on the turn, strong in the tackle, good in the air to have great positioning. Sorry but Lindleof does not fit any of my criteria for being a good CB. Smalling is better, but still not good enough for United. All this being good on the ball rubbish is useless if your CB's can't defend for toffee.
I get your point about a settled CB pairing but if one of them isn't very good at defending it can be even more damaging. What we saw against Crystal Palace in in my opinion the result of Lindelof not being carried by AWB's excellent defending skills.
Probably already been said but he is our best 1v1 defender, bar Bailly but he cannot a) stay fit or b) not do something completely mental every game.
Upamenco is being looked at as our guy for 1v1s, I propose we use Smalling until we can get him etc. Cannot be worse than Lindelof who has the physique of a 14 year old boy with rickets. So what he is pants on the ball, he wouldn't get spread on toast every week by mid-table centre forwards.
Upamenco is being looked at as our guy for 1v1s, I propose we use Smalling until we can get him etc. Cannot be worse than Lindelof who has the physique of a 14 year old boy with rickets. So what he is pants on the ball, he wouldn't get spread on toast every week by mid-table centre forwards.
Nah, it's just this weird obsession with defenders being quasi midfielders to overload the middle of the park. Works with a handful of players in world football who can do this. The actual success/return/failure on this game plan is massive when you don't have players who cannot do both roles (defend and play ball).
Stones is a great point, I truly believe if he dropped down to the Championship, he would get embarrassed most weeks when his team didn't have the ball because he cannot defend consistently.
I honestly think spending so much on maguire was a poor decision... don't think he's really all that good. And he's definitely Way too slow. I'd rather Smalling next to lindelof than Smalling next to maguire. Everyone says maguire is ball playing? He literally sits on the for so long every time he gets it... at least lindelof runs fast with the ball sometimes towards The halfway line and releases it... maguire just kicks it 4 feet ahead of him, waits a while and then passes.
I thinklindelof is better with ball than Harry also.
I thinklindelof is better with ball than Harry also.
Lindelof was crap against Palace but then a) so was everybody else, including TFM who continually left his flank open, Maguire who was nowhere to be seen, Shaw who was again caught napping on their first goal, and McTominay/the midfield who couldn't get hold of the game, and b) he was generally excellent last season.
We have a player who is 90% of the way to what we need. We should look to upgrade but we don't swap him out for a 50% player because of one bad game.
We have Smalling, Lindeloff, Maguire, Bailly, Axel, Rojo, Jones Were not signing a CB unless we shift at least 4 of them which is why I don't think we will be looking at CB until Jan. I'd argue that Maguire should stay and maybe Axel due to his age. The others are all average at best, granted Smalling can do a job short term and yet shock horror he has arguably the best resale value. we need to shift the others at all costs, between wages saved and small fees then maybe it allows us to bring one in.
pretty much in general.Since we're comparing with Smalling, then we can relate that "better on the ball" with few more specifics.
I think it's three traits for Lindelof, if we look at specifics.
"On the ball" is a general trait that definitely fits all three.
"technical abilities", "better passing" and "possession play" are three different things.
Technical abilities is also a more general term referring to the techniques players put on the ball and being comfortable on the ball, doesn't look awkward. Passing include passing techniques, accuracy and vision, of which the latter two not included under tehnical skills. A good passer can be so bad at possession play. Someone who is good at keeping possession may not need to have good technical abilities. It's not certain someone who is good at one, can be good in the other.
Overall Lindelof is just decent in all three.
Yeah two traits for Smalling actually.. defending in general (with his physical abilities help a lot), and one general/specific - scoring from aerial threat. Since we're comparing with him, then it's easy to see how Lindelof is far better at those than Smalling... but it's not really that good if we look at footballers in average. It's just decent, but Lindelof's are far better than Smalling's.
Overall, one general trait for Lind, and two general traits for Smalling. But then if we're talking about scoring, Lindelof have freekick abilities actually, but it's decent at best, no way he's having that chance at United.
Last edited:
The problem is really that whilst neither may be up to scratch long term and both eventually need replacing, you’ve got to go with what you have. Smalling, for me hands down, is the better defender of the two and probably by extension has the attributes that best suit Maguire for now.
What bugs me the most is Ole’s apparent insistence on playing a certain way from the back when he just doesn’t have the players for it. If you don’t have them, adapt to what you do have. It’s apparently fashionable to have two “ball playing” centre backs but surely better to have two that can defend and compliment each other in the short term?
Also, this “Smalling can’t pass” shite has to stop. People make out like he’s one legged. Surely the coaches can train passing lanes and options so that when he does have the ball, his passing is almost instinctive. You are only talking a couple of different simple out balls. Smalling isn’t that awful a footballer that he can’t do that. The rest of his defending is a cut above and would make it all worthwhile. Surely that would be easier than trying to train Lindelöf to be faster, more aggressive and better in the air?
Unfortunately, Ole doesn’t appear to share my opinion though so I fear we’re stuck with Lindelöf and his passive approach to defending for the foreseeable...and he is going to continue to be a target for strikers everywhere.
Edit: Just to be clear, the above is not me wanting to get into a debate on Smalling being a great passer, I know he isn’t...but I also know what the Caf is like...
Last edited:
Both are not top 4 quality.
Johnny Evans is a better defender.
Johnny Evans is a better defender.
Its been pretty obvious that Ole intends to recruit two first choice CBs since his first summer transfer window. I think there was a fair shout for Smalling to be the defender to go alongside Maguire, however Lindelof had been the better player during Ole's first season as manager and its clear that he's trying to set the team up in the right way to play from the back and hold possession, so I can see why he went with Lindelof.
Smalling is a better defender, though for what its worth I think his qualities as a defender are somewhat overrated. In his absence he's become this man mountain, single handedly bullying the worlds best attackers. Smalling was solid at the basics, but one of his problems was always that really good performances didn't come often enough. Apart from a spell about 5 years ago, Smalling is not the kind of defender to dominate attackers. He’s just a solid player, not much more.
On the other hand, Lindelöf had a mare this weekend, but so did basically everyone on the pitch. He was also okay last season, our generally solid defence wasn't just because of Maguire. So I dont think we should read too much into that performance. He can defend okay, he’s just not a top level defender.
I still think Plan A should be to ditch both of them. We could live with either player this season, but it’ll cost us at some point.
Smalling is a better defender, though for what its worth I think his qualities as a defender are somewhat overrated. In his absence he's become this man mountain, single handedly bullying the worlds best attackers. Smalling was solid at the basics, but one of his problems was always that really good performances didn't come often enough. Apart from a spell about 5 years ago, Smalling is not the kind of defender to dominate attackers. He’s just a solid player, not much more.
On the other hand, Lindelöf had a mare this weekend, but so did basically everyone on the pitch. He was also okay last season, our generally solid defence wasn't just because of Maguire. So I dont think we should read too much into that performance. He can defend okay, he’s just not a top level defender.
I still think Plan A should be to ditch both of them. We could live with either player this season, but it’ll cost us at some point.
Why is it Smalling vs Lindelof? Should be Maguire vs Smalling.
I've explained in the previous post.
It's not passing, but more so on the ball, which can be stretch into 3 specifics. Two of the other points are two contrasts to Smalling's.
It's like that "physical abilities" can be stretch into two; better in the air and pace.
You guys really need to stop pining over Smalling, he's already half way done to Roma.
Seriously, it's not healthy. He was the only CB we had last summer who someone else thought was worth something, the fans and the club were happy for him to leave last year. Stop building him up to be the answer to our CB woes.
Seriously, it's not healthy. He was the only CB we had last summer who someone else thought was worth something, the fans and the club were happy for him to leave last year. Stop building him up to be the answer to our CB woes.
I think many of us are just frustrated that we're selling a better CB than we currently have starting. We have to watch Lindelof stink up the place week after week instead of just keeping the better option.
Why on earth we don't play Bailly instead also - Ole wants to play a high line and Bailly is perfect for this. Instead he stick to the icequeen.
Can you compare with Mike Smalling from 2015-16 season please?Pretty much this and the stats alone sum it up.
Yeah tbh there’s about 0 chance of Lindelof ever taking a free-kick for us, so I wouldn’t count that.
Since we're comparing with Smalling, then we can relate that "better on the ball" with few more specifics.
I think it's three traits for Lindelof, if we look at specifics.
"On the ball" is a general trait that definitely fits all three.
"technical abilities", "better passing" and "possession play" are three different things.
Technical abilities is also a more general term referring to the techniques players put on the ball and being comfortable on the ball, doesn't look awkward. Passing include passing techniques, accuracy and vision, of which the latter two not included under tehnical skills. A good passer can be so bad at possession play. Someone who is good at keeping possession may not need to have good technical abilities. It's not certain someone who is good at one, can be good in the other.
Overall Lindelof is just decent in all three.
Yeah two traits for Smalling actually.. defending in general (with his physical abilities help a lot), and one general/specific - scoring from aerial threat. Since we're comparing with him, then it's easy to see how Lindelof is far better at those than Smalling... but it's not really that good if we look at footballers in average. It's just decent, but Lindelof's are far better than Smalling's.
Overall, one general trait for Lind, and two general traits for Smalling. But then if we're talking about scoring, Lindelof have freekick abilities actually, but it's decent at best, no way he's having that chance at United.
Anyway, I’d start Smalling over him any day of the week.
I think Smalling is better but for his own sake, he should not stay at the club. He should go back to Roma.
Worrying thing for me is, Ole consistently picks Lindelof, even when Bailly is fit. Is this due to him being better (sees them both in training)? Or is it because you can't rely on Bailly too much, as he's just a game away from breaking down.
Axel is a curious case. Menghi really good but too young.
Worrying thing for me is, Ole consistently picks Lindelof, even when Bailly is fit. Is this due to him being better (sees them both in training)? Or is it because you can't rely on Bailly too much, as he's just a game away from breaking down.
Axel is a curious case. Menghi really good but too young.
The funny thing is that Smalling would be our best centerback if playing. Harry Beckenbauer and Victor Limpalof were bought while Smalling was sent to Italy and did well there. Harry is so slow it´s like a oil tanker taking a turn and Lindelof is just soft and this pair did cost us 110 million pounds. I think Smalling with Baily/Mengi would be a better option. Maquire takes so many touches on the ball and clearly see´s himself as a ball playing defender but he´s pretty bad at that plus that he´s not really good at defending is he?
Unsurprisingly Lindelof had low marks from the first game of the season. Surprisingly though it wasnt enough to make him the lowest rated CB in the premier league so far this season, that honour goes to Semi Ajayi. 3rd worst in the premier league for now.
The good news is it can only get better from here. Right?
Lindelof is quite shocking header of the ball...especially for a CB.Pretty much this and the stats alone sum it up.
We've had an attacker who can't attack for years in Lingard so why not have a defender who can't defend as well and then we can invent many other things that they are supposedly good at , even though they're not , to justify their position in the squad
But it's easy to compare Lindelof at his worst with Smalling at his best. No one's comparing the Smalling under Mourinho to Lindelof's best performances in a United shirt, which have generally been seen in Europe.
Bailly's a mad man, he can't play 45 minutes without getting a red or getting injured. Until he sorts his rashness out he'll never get a run in the team.
Replacing maguire doesn’t teach lindelof how to head a ball, be aggressive, track runners, be less passive. He’s a shit version of Daley Blind. We sold blind and bought Lindelöf. Even José is saying on tv that he can’t head. Unbelievable
That's just not true. Yes he's had a bad run with injuries but a lot of it is just bad luck - the head injury against Chelsea was made by Maguire etc.
Anyways, obviously long term Smalling isn't the answer but Lindelof definitely isn't either. I'm shocked there hasn't been more press attention towards him.
If Lindelöf was a race horse you’d take him out in the field and shoot him for being lame
Against Luton, I’d say Smalling + Mengi this is your chance lads. Show me what you got
Yeah, and now we’ve paid a good amount of money for someone who isn’t as good.
Only thing Lindelof is good at is staying fit.
His much vaunted ball playing abilities and passing is useless because all he does is 5m passes to Matic/Macguire/De Gea depending on whoever's nearer to him.
He's a failed DM masquerading as a CB. feck knows how he managed to play so many games for us despite doing feck all positive things on the pitch.
His much vaunted ball playing abilities and passing is useless because all he does is 5m passes to Matic/Macguire/De Gea depending on whoever's nearer to him.
He's a failed DM masquerading as a CB. feck knows how he managed to play so many games for us despite doing feck all positive things on the pitch.
Exactly.
Lindelof can only head the ball if he's wide open with nobody within a 5m radius of him. Blind's a far superior defender let alone player than him.