So, what do you think of our coaching staff?

[ryansgirl]

While I am more patient with United's situation than some on the caf, I know there have been references at times by a few posters to the current coaching staff.

Do Michael Carrick, etc, honestly belong in a coaching position? Apart from Michael Phelan and the old hands that were brought back after being undeservedly dumped by Moyes, are the coaches a significant reason for the sometimes awful play of this current Manchester United squad/team?

I don't have enough knowledge of this as is the case with some other posters so would be grateful for some facts to enlighten us.

 

[romufc]

Rubbish, how can we have such experience in the coaching staff yet no player has improved under any of the coaches for more than 8 years.

 

[dove]

One of the worst in the league.

 

[pcaming]

It's awful, not even top 10 in the league.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

One of the worst setups in the league, it seems. None of our players appear to be well coached, even ignoring their personal flaws/limitations. It's a midtable crop of coaches.

 

[Dante]

Our defensive coaching seems pretty good.

The attacking coaching is broken. Maybe it's a knock on effect from the Mourinho days. He seemed to like letting the attacker have freedom when the team was in possession (if not when out of possession).

There still aren't any clear attacking dynamics. I was expecting Ole to have come up with something beyond 'press and then pounce on a forced error'. That's slightly better than Jose, but not by much.

 

[Foxbatt]

It seems that Rene was the coach under SAF and not Phelan.
They can't even organise a piss up in a pub. Look at our set pieces.

 

[cyril C]

Our defensive coaching seems pretty good.

The attacking coaching is broken. Maybe it's a knock on effect from the Mourinho days. He seemed to like letting the attacker have freedom when the team was in possession (if not when out of possession).

There still aren't any clear attacking dynamics. I was expecting Ole to have come up with something beyond 'press and then pounce on a forced error'. That's slightly better than Jose, but not by much.

Don't blame any of these on previous managers. Moyes favoured cross into the box although we had no-one inside the box strong enough to receive it. LVG favoured passing the ball to death, and managed to overload the LHS with Fellaini to create space for the team, just don't know why it failed on year 2. Mourinho favoured target man which worked when his target man delivered. Ole favoured counter-attack and counter-attack ONLY, nothing else. When we have team parking the bus, he still instructed the team to make a pass behind defenders although there are 8 men inside the box.

 

[Skills]

None of them seem interested in doing any coaching for one. Phelan was gunning for the DOF role for a while.

They all seem more interested in buying and selling.

 

[André Dominguez]

It's very difficult to assemble a good staff team that works with a lot of synergy. That's the main reason why so many managers tend to retain their usual staff wherever they go.

 

[poleglass red]

I struggle to see Carricks role. He just sits there, expressionless, I don't see Ole or Phelan ever talking to him. I don't see him on the sidelines getting messages to players. We don't see what he does behind the scenes but he doesn't seem the most inspiring of fellas at the best of times.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I don't know, i think that players like Maguire, Bissaka, James, Martial, Pogba, Shaw, McTominay are doing just fine. You know, the good ones. Don't think through training you can get the bad ones to be good. We have about 7 to 8 players that are good enough IMO and right now 3 of those ore out, so we are bound to under perform.

 

[Revaulx]

It seems that Rene was the coach under SAF and not Phelan.
They can't even organise a piss up in a pub. Look at our set pieces.

I seem to remember Phelan did more on the man management side. SAF liked the way he could cope with the egos.

 

[Revaulx]

I don't know, i think that players like Maguire, Bissaka, James, Martial, Pogba, Shaw, McTominay are doing just fine. You know, the good ones. Don't think through training you can get the bad ones to be good. We have about 7 to 8 players that are good enough IMO and right now 3 of those ore out, so we are bound to under perform.

Maybe they still remember the good stuff they've learned at their previous clubs?

 

[jackal&hyde]

Maybe they still remember the good stuff they've learned at their previous clubs?

Maybe so

 

[Mainoldo]

Ole employed them. Like Mourinho he seems to have stopped listening to them too.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I wish we would just go back to the basics. We have too many players who like to show for the ball rather than make runs behind the defense. And when our wide men get the ball, we only ever have 1 player as a target. I would like to see us go back to a classic 4-4-2 and see how we do. At least then we would have at least 2 players in the box...

 

[jackal&hyde]

If you remember or watch again the games when we had a fit squad, the Chelsea, Wolves, Palace and Southampton games, you will remember the fallowing: Very fast transitions between defense and attack, high press that won us the ball in favorable positions so much so that in some games (palace and Wolves) we had 71 and 64% possession. In the more positional phase we tended to look for the through ball and also overlap from wide for the cross. The results weren't always there but we had 19 shots against Southampton, 21 against Palace and won the Chelsea game 4-0. The fact of the matter is that we should feel we were unlucky not to win a couple of those games and not be blinded by the West Ham performance as it was done by an injury decimated team. We have next to no depth to our best first 11, but that first 11 has done a good showing thus far, in spite of some results.

If we can keep the team fit and continue to play like we did before the injuries we'll be fine for fighting for top 4.

 

[Foxbatt]

What is the point of high balls when none of our strikers are good headers?
I get frustrated with our set pieces. We have Maguire, Lindelof, Pogba, McTominay, Matic who are really very good headers of the ball and tall players.
Yet we can't get even one corner or a free kick right.
Surely at this level any player should be able to get a dead ball into the box?
Why no variation? Why no near post flicks? The whole staff should be sacked.

 

[liamp]

Ole employed them. Like Mourinho he seems to have stopped listening to them too.

What makes you say that?

 

[Red_toad]

Rubbish, how can we have such experience in the coaching staff yet no player has improved under any of the coaches for more than 8 years.

Which of these coaches do you believe have been here 8 years? Moyes ripped the coaching staff apart, Van Gaal had his own guys, Jose had his own guys and promoted from within. So which coach has been here nearly a decade.

As for no player improving over the last 8 years, absolute garbage. McTommy has made huge strides, Lindelof is vastly better than the player we purchased.

 

[Mainoldo]

What makes you say that?

You think Mourinho listened to Carrick n McKenna? It was obvious there was a clear lack of colluding when it came to the team sheet. McTomminay CB along with Herrera.

 

[romufc]

Which of these coaches do you believe have been here 8 years? Moyes ripped the coaching staff apart, Van Gaal had his own guys, Jose had his own guys and promoted from within. So which coach has been here nearly a decade.

As for no player improving over the last 8 years, absolute garbage. McTommy has made huge strides, Lindelof is vastly better than the player we purchased.

Have I mentioned a coach in particular? if you read my post you have quoted it says "no player has improved under any of the coaches for more than 8 years" the key word is any.

McT has made huge strides in what way? Lindelof came with a big reputation.

Well you have names two players who might have improved but in Lindelof's case it is more settling into the league rather than improving, look at the players who have stagnated or regressed?

De Gea
Shaw
Matic
Rashford
Pogba
Martial
Fred ( has not shown anything)
Smalling
Jones

 

[Cassidy]

It is not very good

 

[RooneyLegend]

I fear Carrick isn't learning the right lessons, might harm him for the rest of his career. Our coaching staff is a joke like the rest of our club.

 

[Rozay]

I am of the belief that none of Fergie’s disciples are cut out for modern day coaching at the top level. I appreciate that I obviously don’t know what happens on the training ground, but to me it seems that they can’t see beyond hard work, passion and all the other cliches about blending for the club etc. They all come out with the same rhetoric.

The likes of Pep and other top coaches seem to have players who are no less passionate than us, but that’s not what they seem to base their whole approach on. There seems to be little innovation from a tactical perspective. I’ve never seen that from anyone who came up under Fergie. Be it Bruce, Keane etc. They are all stuck in the past. Even the ones who are not coaching and just offer punditry say the same things. All about hard work.

Someone like Brendan Rogers who came up under Jose I believe has an entirely different philosophy. Much more progressive. Fergie was obviously a brilliant manager of course, but I’m not sure whether it’s just that his descendants are just not good enough to carry out his methods, or if his methods just don’t translate to the modern game.

 

[JPRouve]

I am of the belief that none of Fergie’s disciples are cut out for modern day coaching at the top level. I appreciate that I obviously don’t know what happens on the training ground, but to me it seems that they can’t see beyond hard work, passion and all the other cliches about blending for the club etc. They all come out with the same rhetoric.

The likes of Pep and other top coaches seem to have players who are no less passionate than us, but that’s not what they seem to base their whole approach on. There seems to be little innovation from a tactical perspective. I’ve never seen that from anyone who came up under Fergie. Be it Bruce, Keane etc. They are all stuck in the past. Even the ones who are not coaching and just offer punditry say the same things. All about hard work.

Someone like Brendan Rogers who came up under Jose I believe has an entirely different philosophy. Much more progressive. Fergie was obviously a brilliant manager of course, but I’m not sure whether it’s just that his descendants are just not good enough to carry out his methods, or if his methods just don’t translate to the modern game.

It's reminiscent of Bellichick in the NFL, he is arguably the best head coach ever, the best defensive/offensive/Special team coordinator and it's kind of an issue for his coaches because the reality is that Bellichick will fix every issue before anyone notices that it's an issue and no one actually learn from it. At least that's my theory because all his disciples have been poor when they left him and are good when they comeback.

 

[Sky1981]

Good player doesnt make good coach, not always.

Funny we always thinks our ex player could make a good coach by default while so many of our ex are actually shit at coaching anything.

Our best manager is Hughes, bruce, and that's 2 in so many years.

 

[Sky1981]

I am of the belief that none of Fergie’s disciples are cut out for modern day coaching at the top level. I appreciate that I obviously don’t know what happens on the training ground, but to me it seems that they can’t see beyond hard work, passion and all the other cliches about blending for the club etc. They all come out with the same rhetoric.

The likes of Pep and other top coaches seem to have players who are no less passionate than us, but that’s not what they seem to base their whole approach on. There seems to be little innovation from a tactical perspective. I’ve never seen that from anyone who came up under Fergie. Be it Bruce, Keane etc. They are all stuck in the past. Even the ones who are not coaching and just offer punditry say the same things. All about hard work.

Someone like Brendan Rogers who came up under Jose I believe has an entirely different philosophy. Much more progressive. Fergie was obviously a brilliant manager of course, but I’m not sure whether it’s just that his descendants are just not good enough to carry out his methods, or if his methods just don’t translate to the modern game.

Fergie method works for him. His simpler and direct football is augmented with world class squad and even better man management. Added his long tenure and charisma means players knows they cant pull any stunts against him.

Ole doesnt have all that. He might have the tactical acumen but doesnt have the right motivational skill or maybe vice versa.

Put in isolation fergie's tactics isnt world class, his man management while good can only go so far. But a combination of many things makes him great.

His ex players only knows half the story and we all thinks they made a good manager just because they were managed by ferguson.

 

[Rozay]

Fergie method works for him. His simpler and direct football is augmented with world class squad and even better man management. Added his long tenure and charisma means players knows they cant pull any stunts against him.

Ole doesnt have all that. He might have the tactical acumen but doesnt have the right motivational skill or maybe vice versa.

Put in isolation fergie's tactics isnt world class, his man management while good can only go so far. But a combination of many things makes him great.

His ex players only knows half the story and we all thinks they made a good manager just because they were managed by ferguson.

This is likely true, similar to what @JPRouve said.

The issue is, they all enjoyed such success under Fergie that naturally, they seem to want to recreate whatever they saw under him. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s perhaps leaving them blind to certain things they saw less of under him. Things that they likely looked down on an Arsene Wenger for doing down the road, because his philosophy was different yet brought less success. In reality, we need a bit more of what Wenger was on.

 

[Solius]

Football has changed dramatically in the last 4 or 5 years and I think you need coaches that understand that. I don't know what I'm basing this on but I get the feeling Mike Phelan isn't the most tactically sound. There's a reason he was working in the Australian league.

 

[liamp]

You think Mourinho listened to Carrick n McKenna? It was obvious there was a clear lack of colluding when it came to the team sheet. McTomminay CB along with Herrera.

I have no idea about Mourinho. I'm more curious about what the indicator is that Ole has stopped listening to his coaches

 

[JPRouve]

This is likely true, similar to what @JPRouve said.

The issue is, they all enjoyed such success under Fergie that naturally, they seem to want to recreate whatever they saw under him. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s perhaps leaving them blind to certain things they saw less of under him. Things that they likely looked down on an Arsene Wenger for doing down the road, because his philosophy was different yet brought less success. In reality, we need a bit more of what Wenger was on.

There is something that people don't mention often. Under SAF the coaching staff would implement patterns that would specifically exploit the opponent weaknesses, it was a weekly installment. Some players used to mention it, that type of things require superior tactical nous and the ability to teach new things every weeks, it was also part of our success.

Here you have an example with RVP.

 

[SATA]

Mike Phelan was Hull manager so i reckon he had some tactical nous on how to coach and setup a team although his CV there isn’t saying much. I don’t know what Carrick does though. Ole seems to speak more to Mckenna during matches

 

[Sterling Archer]

Haven't been impressed. At all.

 

[GenZRed]

I honestly don't know what they are teaching our players when it comes to attacking coaching. It is like they don't even practice.

 

[Buster15]

While I am more patient with United's situation than some on the caf, I know there have been references at times by a few posters to the current coaching staff.

Do Michael Carrick, etc, honestly belong in a coaching position? Apart from Michael Phelan and the old hands that were brought back after being undeservedly dumped by Moyes, are the coaches a significant reason for the sometimes awful play of this current Manchester United squad/team?

I don't have enough knowledge of this as is the case with some other posters so would be grateful for some facts to enlighten us.

Very pleased to see this thread because I believe that a fundamental problem with United is the coaching setup. We consistently see no pattern at all to either the style of play or any invention to free kicks or corners or any set play.
There is no evidence at all of improvements or development of any of our players.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Bunch of amateurs.

 

[Jazz]

I am patient and believe in theory we are going in the right direction. However, a big part of this is the coaching. It seems to have not been well thought out. I've been crying for additions forever.
Carrick is learning, so shouldn't be in an influential position at this stage of his career. McKenna seems good, but again he's very young and not very experienced. He would benefit from working with someone whose both experienced and good technically and tactically.

Phelan is nice to have around, but again he's old fashioned and thankfully had SAF to lead the way. I doubt very much he can implement a modern sort of play style.

So in short, our coaching set up is not good enough.

First thing to do is hire the very best available. Whether the person is British or foreign should have no bearing on the decision - just hire the best. Should also not include any ex players.

Honestly, we don't have a great team but it's not worst than a few teams in the league. Our players must be able to offer more but our set up and coaching seems really bad. Even teams way down the bottom of the league look better coached than we do? How can Manchester United allow this I don't know.

 

[Jazz]

Very pleased to see this thread because I believe that a fundamental problem with United is the coaching setup. We consistently see no pattern at all to either the style of play or any invention to free kicks or corners or any set play.
There is no evidence at all of improvements or development of any of our players.

Absolutely agree. It puzzles me that Ole doesn't see this. Or for that matter, that no one at United sees this. It is a fundamental problem we've been having. I worry about the young talents coming through from the academy as well as young people need good direction. You need to guide them properly.

It's just incredible that this isn't attended to.