So what is the actual issue then?

[CantonaVeron]

There wasn't masses wrong with Saturdays performance, that spell in the second half where we had them pinned back was back to how we should be, all be it we need to finish alot better. We need to take more risks in terms of shooting, Fellaini cut in side 20 yards out and dallied so much even though there was masses of space and time to shoot. I think alot is to do with confidence, everytime something goes wrong we take ages to recover. After Swansea scored we should have continued how we were playing but instead we panic and chucked everything forward, lost our shape and it was a complete mess, that to me shows a lack in confidence. I think there could be better balance in terms of the actual team but people are going to have different opinions on that. I would love to see something like

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Carrick Blind Herrera
Januzaj Di Maria
Rooney

That would give us pace and the ability to mix things up by beating players and most importantly stick to it for 5 or 6 matches running our main advantage of not playing in europe is we don't need to rotate we can build some understanding and that goes for the formation too.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Don't think it's anymore complicated than having players that aren't good enough in defence, & having two strikers that are both on a steep decline at the same time.

If we had the right players to play our managers way we'd be dynamite.

 

[Cassidy]

Don't think it's anymore complicated than having players that aren't good enough in defence, & having two strikers that are both on a steep decline at the same time.

If we had the right players to play our managers way we'd be dynamite.

A very good manager would stop picking the said 2 strikers, which in part makes him partly responsible.

EDIT: BR went as far as not picking a striker to get his team back on track, LVG needs to act.

 

[Q80]

Well, look. Imagine you're this world class winger playing for this world class team, you just came out of a champions league final and world cup final and then boom, you're living the dream and playing against Preston North End in the capital one cup, out of position for multiple matches. How would that affect you?

I think whats happening currently is the result of too much tinkering. The players need to regain their composure and confidence, and when you have both you tend to play fluidly and take a few calculated risks. This is a common psychological 101 blow, you were good at one thing, you were told to do another, failed, and then when you get back to doing the think you were good at.. you struggle, not for a physical reason but mainly psychological.

Falcao - must be wondering what the hell is going on. He does well, gets benched. Plays shite, stays on game after game.
Di Maria - amazing on left wing, shifted to striker, stank, now struggling to recapture form.
Blind - used to playing everywhere, so his form hasnt dipped much
Rooney - "Im the captain" surge of energy sort of faded away and its just another day as captain, in midfield. How do i attack again?
RVP - shite or not, im the first name on the list - complacent
Hererra - started as a rotwieler, now more of an english terrier
Mata - lost in translation
Fellaini - shown some confidence in him - thrived. Saviour complex.

Wonderful players individually some of our members, but i think lack of confidence in our defense + too much tinkering is taking its toll massively. Hopefully the team simmer down and get on with it as the season goes on.

 

[Telcontar]

The way I see it, our defence is shit, and our midfield doesn't have enough steel / defensive urgency to help out, apart from Blind, who can't do everything on his own. So LVG resorted (wrongly IMHO, that's his mistake) to playing possesion games to minimize the risks, but in doing so, he limited our offensive creativity and capability of having 5-6 top class players who can score goals. He then tried to put the balance in by playing a hard working player like Rooney in the midfield to help out in defensive / offensive inbalance of the team. Added that some of them probably have some lost confidence, we have a team which has great offensive, but bad defensive capabilities, and not nearly enough self confidence, playing on a tactics that restrict the teams offensive creativity and mentioned capability. So we can't score enough goals, and we still concede goals that we shouldn't.

My solution: If we rule out signing new players for the rest of the seasons, IMHO, solution would be to go with something like a varioation of 4-4-2 where Shaw and Rafael / Valencia would play backs, and Rojo and McNair CB's, given that Jones and Smalling are not nearly good enough, and Evans for some reason lost his reliability. Depending on the opposition, midfield with Carrick / Blind / Fellaini, usually one or two out of 3 playing and then up front having Di Maria, Herrera, Januzaj and Mata rotating with Rooney as support striker and give Wilson a chance to go from the start, since RVP and Falcao are shit this season anyways. Of course this is not nearly enough, but hopefully we can get #3 spot, and then buy some good players and promote a few more from the youth team.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

A very good manager would stop picking the said 2 strikers, which in part makes him partly responsible.

EDIT: BR went as far as not picking a striker to get his team back on track, LVG needs to act.

Sure there's some sort of commercial pressure to play Rooney, RvP, and Falcao whenever they're fit, & if so his hands are tied really, nothing else makes sense as to why he would carry on with it when it's clear to everybody that it's the wrong way to go.

Personally hope we lose RvP, and Falcao in the summer might be the only thing that stops it.

 

[Cassidy]

Sure there's some sort of commercial pressure to play Rooney, RvP, and Falcao whenever they're fit, & if so his hands are tied really, nothing else makes sense as to why he would carry on with it when it's clear to everybody that it's the wrong way to go.

Personally hope we lose RvP, and Falcao in the summer might be the only thing that stops it.

I would think that too, except its LVG and he doesn't stand for that crap right?
Who knows I guess, I hope not though, that kind of stuff stinks

 

[Stack]

I understand the possession thing he is doing. For us fans its something we either like or dont. I dont like our version of it. Its all about moving the ball around so as to move the opposition around to create spaces to exploit. If no options have been created or spaces created then retain the ball and start again. Take the ball all the way back so as to make the pitch bigger and stretch the opposition. Its not pointless as so many seem to think but personally I dont like it in our version of it because the players have become too cautious. Our ball speed isnt quick enough and it must be frustrating for the strikers because they are making runs and then everything gets reset and they have to recover their shape and look to make runs again. We arent playing risky balls in to the final third as often as we should and because of this opposition defenders are not being put under pressure enough which in turn makes it relatively easy to defend because all they have to do is work hard at keeping their shape.
I dont think the teams "balance" or the formation etc is the problem, I think its the approach of keeping the ball until the perfect chance becomes available and we would be better off taking more risks and in turn making opposition defenders more nervous by keeping them uncertain of whats happening next. I think the main problem is the style of football and lack of risk being taken. Its making us predictable and because of that vulnerable.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I would think that too, except its LVG and he doesn't stand for that crap right?
Who knows I guess, I hope not though, that kind of stuff stinks

Like I say it's the only thing that makes sense surely, if not then he really is a bit clueless which is even more worrying, his track record says it must be the former though.

As for not standing for that crap, what can he do? If he speaks out the whole thing comes crashing down, and he is out, a failure in his last job in management, his ego won't allow that I'm sure, he makes the best of it in the hope we ship them out in the summer and he gets the players he wants in.

That's my theory anyway.

 

[Rob Bowman]

I don't see that. On the contrary I see players like Herrera trying to understand why Blind, Rooney and RvP are automatic starters and adapting to conform to that kind of play.

It's not easy though because a lot of what makes a player like Di Maria good is knowing how those around him will move, and when everyone's hesitating ("where would the boss say I should be?") it turns him into just another inconsistent flair player. A role he's not well suited to because he's never been enough of a goalscorer to get away with it.

Good points and perhaps more accurately reflecting what is really going on. Thank you.

 

[Pexbo]

You've already said that the lack of time to blend the squad is an issue. If the lack of suitable players is also an issue, isn't he going to face the same problem next summer when he has to buy 4 or 5 more, or whatever it is? Unless we assume that these more suitable players are, for the most part, going to fit in seamlessly

They will be players indentified to slot into the system he wants to play and on top of that, will be added to a squad of settled players who have had twelve months playing under Van Gaal and will also have a full preseason under him.

It's a much, much more ideal situation than last summer/this season.

 

[Cassidy]

Like I say it's the only thing that makes sense surely, if not then he really is a bit clueless which is even more worrying, his track record says it must be the former though.

As for not standing for that crap, what can he do? If he speaks out the whole thing comes crashing down, and he is out, a failure in his last job in management, his ego won't allow that I'm sure, he makes the best of it in the hope we ship them out in the summer and he gets the players he wants in.

That's my theory anyway.

I dont think thats the case though in honesty. Rooney is captain so always plays (not sure who should play instead of him anyway) and he REALLY trusts and knows RVP. I can see why he does it, but I dont agree with it.
Hes already spoken out about commercial influences, I doubt that comes into team selection.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Really? All 4?
Personally, I'd like it if we got rid of RVP and Falcao and got in, like you said, a younger, hungrier striker. As for Mata, if there isn't space for him, I'd say get rid. But Rooney? He's arguably our best player.

I think the issues is balance as well but Rooney is definitely someone I'd be disappointed to see leave.

How good can Rooney really be if we have to accomodate him? I think he's a good player, but for his wages we could get a top class young player, any young player in the world, and save a bundle

 

[surf]

Watching Real Madrid yesterday playing Swansea-level opposition, it is obvious that they move the ball so much faster than us and play at a higher tempo, while still keeping possession and playing their natural game. By comparison, our team lacks drive, intensity, dynamism, and the will to overwhelm inferior teams. You can see why Di Maria thrived more last season.

 

[Member 5225]

What we need:

------------------------DDG-----------------
New RB------New CB-------Rojo------Shaw
----------------New DMC-----Blind---------
Di Maria-----------Rooney--------New Winger
-------------------New Striker---------------

 

[Adebesi]

The thing is, even if you identify the right problem and rectify it, we wont necessarily see immediate results. We need to find the right formula and persevere with it for a few weeks - but not persevere with the wrong formula, obviously.

Its not easy, but then nobody said football management was, or we'd all be doing it.

For me the biggest problem is that we have often played with two strikers, neither of whom are accustomed to playing in a pair. This is why Ive not been a fan of the diamond all season.

Also: lack of pace; tactical confusion and our players being impervious to the teachings of "the philosophy"; buying too many players in one go proving disruptive to squad cohesion; and (still) a lack of confidence.

Obviously its all speculation but I find this argument that Di Maria doesnt want to be here quite compelling. Hopefully he'll turn a corner and prove that theory wrong (or at least prove it neednt undermine his football) but really when things get tough you need your star players to stand up and be counted and he just hasnt been doing that. Id like to see him sent to a training gulag in Siberia for a month or two, that should make him appreciate Manchester a bit more.

 

[Brophs]

The thing is, even if you identify the right problem and rectify it, we wont necessarily see immediate results. We need to find the right formula and persevere with it for a few weeks - but not persevere with the wrong formula, obviously.

Its not easy, but then nobody said football management was, or we'd all be doing it.

For me the biggest problem is that we have often played with two strikers, neither of whom are accustomed to playing in a pair. This is why Ive not been a fan of the diamond all season.

Also: lack of pace; tactical confusion and our players being impervious to the teachings of "the philosophy"; buying too many players in one go proving disruptive to squad cohesion; and (still) a lack of confidence.

Obviously its all speculation but I find this argument that Di Maria doesnt want to be here quite compelling. Hopefully he'll turn a corner and prove that theory wrong (or at least prove it neednt undermine his football) but really when things get tough you need your star players to stand up and be counted and he just hasnt been doing that. Id like to see him sent to a training gulag in Siberia for a month or two, that should make him appreciate Manchester a bit more.

We did that with Anderson and he just spent his time eating home made ice lollies.

 

[mark_a]

The results for all to see are some top class players under-performing. Pretty much the polar opposite of when a manager gets a set of mediocre players playing as a well drilled, unified XI. Players being played out of their preferred or best positions has to be a part of that. This will then hit confidence & before long you're in a downward spiral.

As far as possession and passing goes, Barcelona showed last night against City how when done well it can look effortless & effective. We manage to make it look like hard work, square, negative, laboured & often panicked.

We were warned about LvG's stubbornness though ...

 

[hungrywing]

Call it tactics, system, tempo, philosophy, pecking order etc. etc.

One thing's for sure, our team chemistry is shot to shit.

Seen it mentioned here and there sporadically in various threads, and all those posters who brought it up are right and/or orbiting the biggest issue: this isn't a team, and hasn't been since we offloaded O'Shea, Brown, Park, etc.

Long story short, team chemistry is the reason SAF was set to sell Rooney.

 

[Gannicus]

We have 8 draws so far this season. Had we had a striker of proper quality surely at least 3 of those draws would have resulted in wins.

Sunderland and Burnley early in the season and Villa in December. With a proper striker in hand there is no way any of those 3 draws would not have instead resulted in wins.

With 6 more points in our pocket from those three wins instead of draws we wouldn't be having this conversation. We'd still have a conversation about how the squad can improve and so on but it would be a very different conversation. We'd actually be overjoyed with our position and would be entertaining dreams of how far we could go in next year's CL run.

We brought in Falcao as insurance for an aging RvP. RvP has aged but the insurance policy just didn't work out. We're desperate for a striker this summer, but for now we have to pray the Louis adjusts his tactics to play Roo up top and that Roo delivers. And he needs to deliver big if we are to have any chance of landing that fourth spot.

It's that simple.

 

[Adebesi]

Isnt that the same for many teams though? Every team has its own "what if" moments that could have led to them being 6-10 points better off.

 

[Member 60376]

We hired the wrong manager at the wrong time twice, is that a start?

 

[Adebesi]

Mourinho being the right one?

 

[soapythecat]

We hired the wrong manager at the wrong time twice, is that a start?

And who exactly would you have got in? Let me take a guess...Pep, Mourinho, Anchelotti, Klopp.... Because they were all rattling the gates at OT when Moyes was fired. Moyes isn't as bad as his tenure here would suggest and LVG is certainly better than this season would suggest. The squad is severely weak in some areas and needed strengthening throughout. Was never going to happen in 1 or 2 windows. We are 4th and people are calling it a wrong appointment or wanting him sacked. Clowns.

 

[Member 60376]

Mourinho being the right one?

Think so

And who exactly would you have got in? Let me take a guess...Pep, Mourinho, Anchelotti, Klopp.... Because they were all rattling the gates at OT when Moyes was fired. Moyes isn't as bad as his tenure here would suggest and LVG is certainly better than this season would suggest. The squad is severely weak in some areas and needed strengthening throughout. Was never going to happen in 1 or 2 windows. We are 4th and people are calling it a wrong appointment or wanting him sacked. Clowns.

LVG would take us to the cusp of success if he stays his term. He generally takes the team to a level and then hands it over to his successor. He would have been perfect immediately after SAF. After Moyes (who was never going to make it here), he is certainly an improvement, but I still think we hired him at the wrong time