I feel the opposite is needed, for some more English players to go outside the premier League. Sure, the other leagues are generally less competitive but they'll learn a different way to play.
So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?
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There's even a petition to get him knighted. Probably started by people who only watch international tournament football.Wait what? I thought that was some meme. He is getting knighted for absolutely nothing
Could as well knight Shaw, Maguire, Kane, Sterling and Stones.
This attitude is basically everything wrong with English football. We need MORE players to play overseas. Not less.
Keep him. He and the team are growing. Evolving. So are their international results
The next step in evolution is to integrate Bellingham into the center midfield.
James and Trent at right back as long term replacements on Walker and Trippier.
To get Grealish, Sancho and Foden more regularly involved.
I think the future is very bright.
I think the
Bullshit. Give Southgate Italy's midfield and defence and Mancini would lose comfortably. Because he'd also be dominated in midfield. Yet his back 4 wouldn't keep Southgate out.
I think Mancini would’ve made very different choices in midfield and attack than Southgate and extracted a much better level of performance as a result.
Mancini’s in-game management is also superior and he would’ve made more proactive substitutions throughout the game, as well as better decisions in the penalty shoot-out, than Southgate. As evidenced by what happened.
It won't do any harm for those well established in the side like it is with trippier but I can only think this is the reason why sancho was so heavily overlooked because if he performed in the premier league like he did in the Bundesliga, he would be an automatic starter with sterling and kane.
This is an issue. The league shouldn't matter. But it does unfortunately.
Agreed. Issue is language though for La Liga and Serie A - personally I feel players would love the experience, escape the English press (unless you play for Real in which case the press are even worse) and probably learn a lot more tactically than they would in most PL teams.
Southgate could be watching a lot of United games this season with a view to the form of Henderson, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Shaw, Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and maybe even Lingard.
You are missing what I'm alluding to. Italy have the superior midfield period. Selections and choices of Mancini had nothing to do with it. The main difference being their deep midfielders are experienced top class playmakers. If Mancini was in charge of England all he'd have is Bellingham.
His in game management wouldn't make an iota of a difference
Southgate couldn't hurt Mancini on the counter because his midfield couldn't do much with the ball. Switch the sides around in that final and I can guarantee he'd successfully pick Mancini's team off on the counter at least once to make it 2 zero using the exact same tactics he played with England. Then he'd just be closing shop with his subs. Penalties wouldn't occur. At most Mancini would pull a goal back because of the sheer quality of attacking players England has. But he wouldn't catch up let alone beat Italy, whilst possessing the inferior midfield.
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That’s a lot of absolutes for a hypothetical. Agree to disagree.
But looking at it like this, do you feel managers have such a minimal role?
Fair eboughh
However I'll end with this:
You may think they are absolutes. Under Southgate England are defensively sound and deadly in the counter. Mancini's team are excellent on the ball thanks to their midfield and attack minded due to his tactics.
Switch the teams around with the self same tactics. It's isn't a stretch to think Italy would be just as good defensively under the English man. Still deadly in the counter. With a midfield that would out posses England.
Mancini with Emgland would be more proactive. But try his best to play possession football. He'd probably win on that front
But he'd lose that battle of creative quality from deep to that Italy midfield. Thus every time his team would lose the ball with their defense advanced. They'd be in actual danger of that Italy midfield picking a pass to split them on the counter.
England lacked the tools to do that for Southgate.
No. Rather I just don't believe they can over come personnel disadvantages against a manager using the right tactics with a team that can perfectly execute the tactics. That is why I feel, even with superior attacking talent, Southgate was unlikely to over come Mancini. Save for winning the shoot out. Apart from the fact Mancini is proven as a better coach.
If Southgate was indeed as poor a coach as many claim. He'd have tried to open up and he'd have been murdered second half by Mancini and Italy. The way Keegan got murdered by Portugal back in Euro 2000, during second half.
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Why? We have arguably the best league in the world. Also who just won the tournament....how many of there players played over seas last season?
He might be an average manager, as some have suggested. But none of the evidence bears that out at all. We only need to look at the managers we’ve had before and the, frankly, excellent players in some of their squads to see that results and degrees of success do not follow from what looks good on paper.
If Southgate did only a few things right and everything else wrong, it seems he did the right things right.
Guaranteed the next manager does worse.
If Southgate did only a few things right and everything else wrong, it seems he did the right things right.
Guaranteed the next manager does worse.
PLayer wise yes and I think he has done a good job. The we lost because of the manager I disagree with.........but he does need to evolve. Going back to the Scotland game he got slated for not using the bench and trying to change the game. We have so much attackign talent, but effectively he did the very same thing in the final, that is the one thing dissapointed me along with Bellingham actually that you mention.
Yes we have some excellent right backs, maybe they also offer more goign forward. For me pre-tournament I would have started wit James actually, a tad unfortunate one game he got and didnt play well.....but defensively will any of them play better in a tournament defensivly than Walker just did this tournament? I think he was immense in the knock out stages.
Pre-tournament I also thought Phillips would be lucky to play much and was maybe just a level below this standard. Personally I rally like him, but he didnt change my mind in the tournament. His openin game performane was massively over rated, he was ok. He was poor in the other group games, especially Scotland where he got rolled being over exhuberent and bar the Germany game which I thought he played well in, the same happened in all the other games too....I acutally think after Germany he faded where RIce grew, yet he stayed on the pitch all the games, didnt get it? Against Italy, liek th epundits said, he was tied after 60mins, the whole midfield were as they had to work so hard out numbered and chasing the ball.....I still think though so yougn, Bellingham like Saka would have done really well. I hope Foden and Greenwood continue to progress this season too as I think they can both be big players next summer startin gor from the bench in the world cup.
But more than anything SOuthgate really needs to use the talent at his disposal with more boldness when needed. Keane summed it up perfetly when he said the best managers have that gamble in them....thats what Southgate needs to gain
I think England will go out earlier in the next World Cup, round of 16 - and that will be that.
He will go back into club football, maybe top half side.
He will fail bc he's a crap manager and he'll be on Sky living on once beating Sweden / Ukraine and Denmark.
He will go back into club football, maybe top half side.
He will fail bc he's a crap manager and he'll be on Sky living on once beating Sweden / Ukraine and Denmark.
We were lucky it got that far because they were clearly the better team for around 90 of the 120 mins, do wish people wouldn't ignore the fact that IF Southgate had actually learnt from Croatia we could have controlled the second half better
Imagine he becomes manager of some mid table team like Palace.
Commentator "and here come the palace team, with their manager Sir Gareth Southgate"
Just find it very hard to see him being braver against the better teams in the World Cup
He has actually been Knighted. It's not a prank. The standards have been set very low, it seems.
Yeah he is definitely getting a free ride from the media over his lack of bravery in the game and that's bad
Indeed. I honestly think if Bellingham can force his way into the deeper two midfield slots it would encourage Southgate to be more risky. Because I personally agree with his unstated view that England are not yet at the level to go toe to toe with most top international teams. Especially in tournament football where safety first is priority. Where you can only be as attacking as an Italy if you are certain you can keep almost anyone out, whilst going toe to toe with them.
Else you an easily ended up like France. Out early in spite of your resources
England should keep him. He has progressed this team and has been their best manager since Bobby Robson. Stability will be good for this squad. Look at Joachim Low as an example. Took over in 2006, didn't win the world Cup until 2014. Southgate should get a crack at the next World Cup.
Why would he be living on beating Sweden, Ukraine and Denmark over a World Cup semi final and European final?
Makes no sense.
That is who he beat to get there...
Didn't he beat Germany? And Croatia? And Czech Republic?
Mancini had the balls to sub out top players when it wasn’t working and/or they were knackered. Southgate didn’t. I’m sorry but it really takes the shine off the tournament with the way in which he handled that final. 10 men behind the ball told to play for penalties from the moment Italy scored. I had to witness this in the Europa final so it was all too predictable.
How exactly was it too risky to sub Rashford and Sancho on for extra time and tell them to play on the break, we’d still have played ultra defensively. This isn’t hindsight, people were screaming for it during the full 30 minutes. No-ones saying this would have won the game, but it would have showed some guts (and a bit of common sense if we’re being frank). The point is he had options and chose to do nothing.
I also can’t believe that every single player is happy with Southgate, he clearly has favourites who get game time no matter how poor they’ve been. I think the closest we’ve come to having our best 11 on the pitch is the Ukraine game.
There’s no replacements atm so he’ll get the World Cup, but reckon he’ll fall at the first top team he plays, in say the quarters. Then it’ll vindicate what a lot of people have been saying.
How exactly was it too risky to sub Rashford and Sancho on for extra time and tell them to play on the break, we’d still have played ultra defensively. This isn’t hindsight, people were screaming for it during the full 30 minutes. No-ones saying this would have won the game, but it would have showed some guts (and a bit of common sense if we’re being frank). The point is he had options and chose to do nothing.
I also can’t believe that every single player is happy with Southgate, he clearly has favourites who get game time no matter how poor they’ve been. I think the closest we’ve come to having our best 11 on the pitch is the Ukraine game.
There’s no replacements atm so he’ll get the World Cup, but reckon he’ll fall at the first top team he plays, in say the quarters. Then it’ll vindicate what a lot of people have been saying.
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He didn't do nothing though did he? He was busy getting "It's Coming Home" tattooed on his arm.
Yeah, i wonder what's the obsession with having a full PL squad, because apparently Bundesliga,Serie A and La Liga are inferior.
There hasn't been a single champions that won an international football trophy with more than 4 Premier League players in their starting lineup since the PL was created.
Italy just won the Euro with an almost full squad of Serie A players, a league who us behind PL and La Liga currently.
I think England need more english players abroad so they can adapt to other systems, but can't see it happening because wages on England are superior than in other top european leagues.Even PL mid table teams can outbid every team from other leagues except Barcelona,Real Madrid,Bayern,PSG, and Juventus.
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Definitely, on one hand it's ridiculous to knight him, as someone said above the standard of England has dropped a bit too low imo. On the other hand, you don't sack a coach after him leading your team to an Euro final, it's even more ridiculous.
As far as I dislike his negative football he has done a good job of uniting your megastar players. England definitely has the quality to go very far in the WC. Hope he'd learn from this and be a bit more proactive and braver in the WC. For example put some fast players there to hit your opponent on the counter after a lead, very simple and basis thing to do instead of sitting back and shit yourself to the penalties. It's simply suicidal to go all out defend a lead without some good counter attack. At least you have to scare your opponent.
I do want England to win the next WC. This generation of players and England surely deserve it. You have won feck all for so long despite all the quality. But let's hope he would win it in a more exciting and braver way, the English way.
England is lucky that they've lost the Euro
Had they won Southgate would've become unsackable even with utter failure at the two or three next tournaments
Had they won Southgate would've become unsackable even with utter failure at the two or three next tournaments
I read the same things after the 2018 WC
But wait…..oh look
he went one better and he got us through to the Euros Final via a tougher draw than that we saw in the WC 2018
how terrible of him! Sack him!!
Honestly some people make me laugh, I’m not by any means suggesting Southgate is a world class manager, he’s not, and he fecked the final up that’s for sure. But he sets up England to be a very tough cookie to beat, I don’t care about eye catching fluid football in these tournaments, of course it would be nice but not a necessity for England, and if his cautious style is achieving Semis and Finals giving us a slight shot at actually winning the damn thing then that’s amazing and better than what we were used too before he arrived
He’s English, he’s passionate, the lads love him, the press love him, he deals with it all great
We Could have a more proven name, like at the time when we got Capello, but after listening to Peter Crouch speaking about life in the England camp when he was manager, everyone hated it, no one like him, and it showed with how terrible we were
Sometimes the key to success is happiness within, and Southgate provides that in the England camp in abundance, and he’s a capable manager ontop
A Semi and a Final kind of proves that, we will be “one” of the top dogs in next years World Cup because of what he’s done, doesn’t mean we’ll win it, but we’ll be favourites to atleast make the latter stages
Some people need to get passed wanting a more proven name, we’ve had plenty come in, done nothing
Made me chuckle and is likely to be accurate.
We do not have anything like the best league in the world.
You don’t see the flaw in your argument? Italians don’t need to play overseas because they play in Italy.
The last data set here’s a list of where World Cup Winning players were based;
Italy - 113
Brazil - 90
Germany - 83
Uruguay - 46
Spain - 44
England - 42 (With only 20 in the past 55 years)
Argentina - 33
France - 33
You could attempt to say ‘If England won our number would jump to 65’. True. But every time ANY team wins the World Cup, Italian and German based players clock up a few more. These technical leagues create better international players.
We don’t play a brand of football that sees our players learn to play a style that’s rested to win major international honours.
I looked at this before and I believe the data for the Euros was even more confronting. (And saw Spain fare far better) If we have all this money and our football is so fabulous, why do excellent players in this country get overlooked for teams that go on to win trophies.
Time and again we see an International Team succeed, and English teams buy those big players. But they generally don’t win major honours while they’re based in this country.
There are of course outliers and it’s not an open and shut binary discussion, but all data points to our need to export English players. I’m not even indulging a counter point that reads “Obviously Teams that have won multiple world cups have more home based players”. I believe that’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
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Yep. See my considered rant above. We have a daft attitude in this country. That tub thumping exceptionalism that is never supported by facts or data.
He should coach the Thailand team. You wouldnt mind that would you since there are a lot of Thai Leicester supporters now? You know a team from their own country
So did Emery.
This summer we've seen the difference a top manager can make. The side can have inferior players and still come out on top if the manager reacts to the game as it unfolds. Emery and Mancini did that this summer and won trophies against objectively better opposition.