Solskjaer is a worryingly easy out for the Glazers

Red_toad

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It’s not a theory - it’s an opinion! You sound like Rafa and his ‘fachts’, well done.

We shouldn’t be buying players for the sake of it. We all know we need a CB, but it’s better to get it right, and with the input of the next manager/ DoF - neither of which are in place.

OGS doesn’t have his hands tied, he would have known what the likelihood of transfers would have been when he joined. We don’t. You don’t.
Opinions are theories.

So he doesn't have his hands tied, but isn't allowed to sign anyone. Great logic :lol:

If we finish outside the top 4 whoever is taking over is also going to have issues. A quality defender will be a quality defender regardless of who the next manger is. Like I said no new manager is going to want s full new team, giving him a start by having better players available to him for the offset shouldn't be viewed as wrong. Obviously you do, so carry on...
 
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Opinions are theories.

So he doesn't have his hands tied, but isn't allowed to sign anyone. Great logic :lol:

If we finish outside the top 4 whoever is taking over is also going to have issues. A quality defender will be a quality defender regardless of who the next manger is. Like I said no new manager is going to want s full new team, giving him a start by having better players available to him for the offset shouldn't be viewed as wrong. Obviously you do, so carry on...
Who determines who is a quality defender? Boatang, McGuire? Both realistic targets - but whether they are right for Utd is questionable?

It would be wonderful if we could just pick a defender, whose club is open to selling him (in Jan) and who is the perfect fit - who is that?

By the way, I never said we wouldn’t sign anyone, but that it makes logical sense that we don’t - as we don’t have a perm manager or a DoF, which the club are actively recruiting for.

The original point of the thread is about whether appointing OGS is an easy way out for the owners, not what happens whilst he’s an interim manager. Let’s move on.
 

arthurka

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Running the club is the chair's job, not that of the squad's manager. He doesn't run Spurs, Levy does.

Much of rest of your post is nonsense. He's improved Spurs by:

(a) being part of the decisions to sign Alli, Son, Alderweireld, Davies, Dier, Trippier, Sanchez, Moura, Foyth, Gazzaniga and others
(b) by coaching big improvement in virtually every player in the squad
(c) giving young players a good chance
(d) ruthlessly getting rid of the dead wood (Adebayor, Paulinho, Fazio, Lennon, Sigurdsson, Dawson, Sandro, Livermore, Gomes and many others);
(e) having a defined style of football and drilling this deep into the squad;
(f) by instilling huge self-belief in the players and establishing a strong team spirit.

You say he "has no experience in dealing with bringing in top class players", but you confuse top class with "expensive" ... because several of his signings are top class players.
9/10 Glaston... Great post.
 

Random Task

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Sorry but he didn't waste the money, he wasted the talent at his disposal. We've gotten some excellent players he purchased.
Odd how they extended his contract then pulled back from spending on the team.
Nothing spent this window, just dealing with facts. That and we're getting expectations dampened, as the new manager isn't in place.
For me there are glaringly obvious issues with the team and there are players available to resolve them. City didn't sit on their hands waiting for Pep to confirmed in post, they went out and purchased quality players when they became available.
I can't be bothered to have the anti-Glazer argument again, it's physically and mentally exhausting.

Interesting how Jose has become the beacon of hope for all would-be Glazer haters, though.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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No, but you did say that Spurs have improved under Poch "not by masterstroke in rebuilding a team", when as my posted explained he has rebuilt the team.

And you're now implying that United finishing top 4 this season would be seen as failure, when in truth most United fans would bite your hand off for a top 4 finish.
I agree with you that Levy is the one who is running the club but back in the day we used to have Sir Alex a powerful who is capable running our club together with Gill. So a manager can also has the authority to run a club if they are capable. But let’s not argue with this. Not many manager is capable to do it anyway.

Poch has done brilliant with Spurs. Unfortunately Spurs expectation is different to United. A club like United should be winning the league and right now we are happy with top 4 because Mourinho has done terrible for our season, damage has been done.

Although, I’ll be happy enough if Poch is given a chance to manage United. He plays attacking football, his man management is good enough to handle modern days players, he can develop young players and he doesn’t complain about lack of support in transfer.

The problem with Spurs is that. Even though he has built the team and become very tough team to beat. He couldn’t make any progress to be a title challenger. May be because lack of ambition and money from people who run the club.

Every season ever since Leicester won it all I can see with Spurs is that they aren’t getting better and not getting worse, not trying to improve the team and happy enough with top 4 challengers.

If Ole shows that he can do good job with us then obviously he’s more favourite than Poch. Like the OP said, Spurs and United have different expectations.
 

DBT85

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Is he still an easy out if they give him the job and spunk another £150m+ in the summer?

With the real possibility of Young, Valencia, Darmian, Jones and Mata all walking in the summer, money will have to be spent somewhere.
 

staniswin

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Is he still an easy out if they give him the job and spunk another £150m+ in the summer?

With the real possibility of Young, Valencia, Darmian, Jones and Mata all walking in the summer, money will have to be spent somewhere.
Not really , Glazer will tell him to play youth instead , Tuanzebe , Fosu-Mensah , Mitchell everyone will walk in replacing those players.
 

Bestietom

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Sorry but yes it is. We sign a quality central defender it instantly improves the team, regardless of the manager. Something the owners were unwilling to do in summer for the manager who's contract they'd not long extended. Any new manager will not demand a new team, they'll retain quality.
Plus how does Ole do a great job if his hands are tied and he cannot improve the team?
This I agree with. A quality CB now, could get us that top 4 position and Champions League football next season, and no matter who the new manager is he will retain good players.
 

Cloud7

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Opinions are theories.

So he doesn't have his hands tied, but isn't allowed to sign anyone. Great logic :lol:

If we finish outside the top 4 whoever is taking over is also going to have issues. A quality defender will be a quality defender regardless of who the next manger is. Like I said no new manager is going to want s full new team, giving him a start by having better players available to him for the offset shouldn't be viewed as wrong. Obviously you do, so carry on...
Every manager and football fan defines a quality defender as something different. In many circles Pique is considered one of the finest defenders in the world, while in others he’s considered to not be able to defend his lunch from his child. Similarly with Varane, many consider him one of if not the best CB in the world, while many on here call him overrated.

It’s not as simple as saying a quality defender will be a quality defender, because every manager looks for different things in their defenders.
 

Maticmaker

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The first perceived problem for Ole was that the man he took over from could not get the best out of our current squad of players...so can he? That's not just the 'new manager bump' effect, but sustained performances until the end of the season. You could argue Ole's impact on Rashford and Lukaku in particular, is evident already. Thereafter to be awarded the manager role permanently, the board needs to know if he can choose/attract the right players to the club; if he can dispense with those approaching (or past) their United sell by date and can he keep Woodward out of the Dressing room?
 

Dec9003

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Chelsea and Di Matteo is in no way similar to us keeping solskjaer.
 

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Good point from Redknapp on Sky, shades of Di Matteo with Chelsea.
I dunno, the thing about Di Matteo is that he didn't do particularly well in the league, and it was acknowledged by most that there was an extraordinary element of luck about Chelsea winning the CL.

Most people (I imagine) who are starting to back Solskjaer are doing so on the basis of him getting us performing consistently in the league. That's not something RDM did at Chelsea.
 

DBT85

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Good point from Redknapp on Sky, shades of Di Matteo with Chelsea.
I expect nothing less from Redknapp.

"a former player takes over half way through, basically the same fing righ?"

Di Matteo took over in March, managed a total of 11 league games (18 points from 33) and a magical pair of cup runs to take his total tally to 21 games. Sure he did wonders in the cup, that has to be acknowledged. Ole has 25 games before he even gets a shot at the next round of CL or FA Cup, has won elsewhere in a league he was not expected to do so in. He's also managed twice as many games as Di Matteo had by the time he got the job.

Despite it all, that dopey cnut owner sacked him 4 points off the top of the table, sitting in 3rd, 6 months after he won them the greatest prize in club football. He should never have been sent packing in the first place. When he eventually was, he's had 12 pl games that season, winning 7 and drawing 3. He beat Arsenal and Spurs away from home, lost to us at the bridge and drew with Liverpool at the bridge.
 
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peridigm

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Solskjaer has put more excitement, enthusiasm, and confidence back in this club than the previous four managers combined in less than 4 weeks. If we finish the season well the board would be nuts to not give him the job. Even if we narrowly miss out on top 4. Most have been crying for United to get a scout that will go for young attacking players and even take a chance on non-galactico stype signings. I think Ole would agree with those types of players. I'm just not sure Ed will. We know he liked the big name signings.
 

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The last time Spurs finished at least 3rd prior to him was 1989-90! He's finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd in his last three seasons. Lets not forget the job he is doing with them in Europe also, they are slowly gaining traction in the Champions league. They had an extremely difficult group last season with Real and Dortmund and guess what Paul, they finished top of the group by 3pts. They beat Dortmund 3-1 & 2-1, drew with Real away 1-1. Then drew with Juve away in the next stage. By no means a failure in my mind when you look at them results.

Didn't get much easier for them this year either in the group stage with Barca, Inter & PSV. Yet they finished 2nd and qualified again even if it was by the skin of their teeth, good result against Inter and more so vs Barca at the Nou Camp. They've got Dortmund again now and they shouldn't really fear them considering they beat them twice last time around and they could be in the QF's then.

Those players are as great as they are most likely due to his coaching ability, I mean why should anyone think otherwise when you consider this, how many players who have played for him have regressed and now think of how many have improved? I was making this point whilst all the Jose in brigade were having none of it.

Would Kane, Alli, Erikson, Dier, Toby etc etc be the players they are now if they were guided by Sherwood, AVB or Redknapp (the previous 3 Spurs managers)?

It's a feckin daft thought process when you think about it, we apparently had a world class, serial winning manager in Jose and yet every single player regressed under his tenure ultimately. Great managers like Poch bring out the very best in them. How on earth can you summarize that its basically a fluke for Poch and yet ignore how well drilled a team they are and how well that team is balanced throughout. He's invested wisely and integrates them into the team brilliantly along with talented youth also.

LVG and Jose were two of the most successful managers in recent times and neither could do the job here ultimately so why is success that important in our job spec?

The reality is this, he's spent an absolute pittance at Spurs so I think expectations of him winning it are a farce bar one season where it was a freak occurrence and yeah as I said they messed it up at the end. It happens to all managers at some time or another. A Champions League isn't impossible as cup competitions have an element of luck about them (luck of the draw?), but its a big ask still you'd think.

That leaves the FA Cup and League Cup, both are possible of course but he seems to sacrifice those competitions to remain competitive in the Premier league. Money talks and a 2nd or 3rd place finish is worth a tonne more than a league or fa cup win. Hell even mid table teams like Leicester and the like often field weakened teams in this competitions now in favor of keeping top players fit for the premier league.

Jose couldn't handle it cause he's a narcissistic and after his Real stint he was finished, the death rattle was his title win with Chelsea. Jose was never right for United, ever. He's negative and his football never suited, nor his ignorance towards youth. Poch on the other hand seems very well liked due to his warm nature and positive outlook. He focuses on youth and clearly builds good teams that place well drilled attacking football with exciting wide players... isn't that basically the exact profile for a United manager?
I agree with most of what you say, clearly Poch has done a good job with Tottenham but as I said the expectation is not the same at United and the pressure is totally different. There are questions about Ole but there are equally serious questions about Poch and the reason Spurs have done well is down to Poch but equally the catastrophic management of United and Arsenal over the same period.

I haven't criticised his management but I have serious doubts he would the right fit for United and what happened to Mourinho was totally expected and was said well before he joined and in theory Mourinho is much better manager than Poch and has actually won things but he was totally wrong for United as were Moyes and LVG by the way.
 

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I expect nothing less from Redknapp.

"a former player takes over half way through, basically the same fing righ?"

Di Matteo took over in March, managed a total of 11 league games (18 points from 33) and a magical pair of cup runs to take his total tally to 21 games. Sure he did wonders in the cup, that has to be acknowledged. Ole has 25 games before he even gets a shot at the next round of CL or FA Cup, has won elsewhere in a league he was not expected to do so in. He's also managed twice as many games as Di Matteo had by the time he got the job.

Despite it all, that dopey cnut owner sacked him 4 points off the top of the table, sitting in 3rd, 6 months after he won them the greatest prize in club football. He should never have been sent packing in the first place. When he eventually was, he's had 12 pl games that season, winning 7 and drawing 3. He beat Arsenal and Spurs away from home, lost to us at the bridge and drew with Liverpool at the bridge.
Indeed, I actually remember being quite surprised Chelsea sacked him so soon even though they had a history of doing so with managers. He was essentially gone when they hit their first poor spell of form of the season. He wasn't likely to succeed in the long-term but nor was he a categorical failure. Indeed his league form was better in 2012-13 than the year before.
 

antohan

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Running the club is the chair's job, not that of the squad's manager. He doesn't run Spurs, Levy does.

Much of rest of your post is nonsense. He's improved Spurs by:

(a) being part of the decisions to sign Alli, Son, Alderweireld, Davies, Dier, Trippier, Sanchez, Moura, Foyth, Gazzaniga and others
(b) by coaching big improvement in virtually every player in the squad
(c) giving young players a good chance
(d) ruthlessly getting rid of the dead wood (Adebayor, Paulinho, Fazio, Lennon, Sigurdsson, Dawson, Sandro, Livermore, Gomes and many others);
(e) having a defined style of football and drilling this deep into the squad;
(f) by instilling huge self-belief in the players and establishing a strong team spirit.

You say he "has no experience in dealing with bringing in top class players", but you confuse top class with "expensive" ... because several of his signings are top class players.
Blimey, had forgotten how much dross you had in your books.

Also makes me wonder what that list would be for us in a couple of years. We have a bunch of players we are content with but clearly aren't first XI standard, or are first XI standard for a side playing a different way (e.g. Gylfi in your case, not a bad player but can't see how he would fit in this side).
 

SirFergie

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Do you really think we should do that?

I'd be seriously worried if the Glazers approached running the club that way, but i don't think they do.
Erm yeah. No one knows who will be a certain success as our past 2 appointments have proved, but Ole is making everyone feel good with what he's producing off the pitch as well as on it. I don't see anything wrong with making a decision based on who feels right for the club.

I'm worried that some of our fans, seemingly you included, don't see that.
 

Simbo

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Nah, we have to keep spending big and bring big names to the club to keep the value up. If you want to worry about the corporate nature of the club, lack of funds certainly isn't on the radar. If anything it would be spending for spending's sake.
 

Tarrou

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Erm yeah. No one knows who will be a certain success as our past 2 appointments have proved, but Ole is making everyone feel good with what he's producing off the pitch as well as on it. I don't see anything wrong with making a decision based on who feels right for the club.

I'm worried that some of our fans, seemingly you included, don't see that.
yeah i don't think we disagree based on how you've worded it there

I just want them to do the right thing for the club, including a bit of an overhaul of the structure. If that still happens, and Ole keeps doing well, then I think Ole would be the best choice. My worry is if it became apparent that Ole wasn't the best choice over the next few months, and the Glazers went ahead and appointed him anyway because its each/cheap.
 

Buster15

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I agree with you that Levy is the one who is running the club but back in the day we used to have Sir Alex a powerful who is capable running our club together with Gill. So a manager can also has the authority to run a club if they are capable. But let’s not argue with this. Not many manager is capable to do it anyway.

Poch has done brilliant with Spurs. Unfortunately Spurs expectation is different to United. A club like United should be winning the league and right now we are happy with top 4 because Mourinho has done terrible for our season, damage has been done.

Although, I’ll be happy enough if Poch is given a chance to manage United. He plays attacking football, his man management is good enough to handle modern days players, he can develop young players and he doesn’t complain about lack of support in transfer.

The problem with Spurs is that. Even though he has built the team and become very tough team to beat. He couldn’t make any progress to be a title challenger. May be because lack of ambition and money from people who run the club.

Every season ever since Leicester won it all I can see with Spurs is that they aren’t getting better and not getting worse, not trying to improve the team and happy enough with top 4 challengers.

If Ole shows that he can do good job with us then obviously he’s more favourite than Poch. Like the OP said, Spurs and United have different expectations.
Not sure why you feel that Tottenham have lower expectations. We are striving for a top 4 finish.
Just look at how much money they are investing in the new state of the art stadium.

Apart from maintenance of the current situation where is the similar level of Glazier investment in the club, stadium or players.

Tottenham are investing in the future. United are at best standing still.
 

SirFergie

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yeah i don't think we disagree based on how you've worded it there

I just want them to do the right thing for the club, including a bit of an overhaul of the structure. If that still happens, and Ole keeps doing well, then I think Ole would be the best choice. My worry is if it became apparent that Ole wasn't the best choice over the next few months, and the Glazers went ahead and appointed him anyway because its each/cheap.
I honestly don't think Ole is/will be the problem. It's who will be around him. The club need to appoint a DOF, someone who Ole can work with on the transfer side of things and is well versed at getting things done quickly and efficiently and help him to get the players in he wants. If Ole is appointed, no doubt he'll keep Mike Phelan, Carrick, McKenna and Dempsey around so he'll have good people around him and let's not underestimate Ole himself as a manager/head coach.
 

wub1234

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One of the things people tend to overlook with the appointment of mangers is that you just don't know how well they will do at a new club. Of course, this is also true of players. But the manager's job is so much more tenuous in nature, as there are so many things over which you have no control.

It's not that long ago that Villas-Boas was one of the most highly regarded young coaches in the world. Where is he now? It's less long ago that appointing Mourinho was supposed to guarantee trophies. It is even slightly less long ago that many esteemed journalists and pundits would have told you that Guardiola's approach can never work in the Premier League.

Pochettino has good credentials. But he could come in and have an absolute stinker. There is absolutely no guarantee that he would do well at United. There is no magic formula for creating a successful football team. Judging players is extremely difficult because there are 1,000 players worldwide right now who could come into the United team and do pretty well. It seems crazy that Mourinho could have let Salah and de Bruyne go, for example, but did anyone really expect the Egyptian Salah to become a truly world-class player? At one time, if you'd said Salah is going to look a much better player than Sanchez it would have sounded ludicrous. But there are actually very fine lines between many professional footballers.

Personally, I would never shell out a load of money for a so-called super-coach, let alone one that has never won anything (not Pochettino's fault, he hasn't managed big enough clubs to do so). But I definitely wouldn't do it if I had someone in situ who was winning games. If you then get rid of him, spend a fortune bringing someone else in, and then win less games (perfectly possible), you look completely ridiculous.

And no manager guarantees success. Even Guardiola has been reliant on massive budgets. There is no way that anyone can say with any confidence that Pochettino would do well at United. He might do well. His track record suggests that he has a good chance. So did the track records of van Gaal and Mourinho.

If Solskjaer continues to do well, I would definitely give him another 12 months. Why risk what we know to be the delicate balance of a modern football club, for something that isn't guaranteed to work?
 

crossy1686

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Good point from Redknapp on Sky, shades of Di Matteo with Chelsea.
Absolute utter bullshit. Di Matteo did shit in the league and John Terry coached the final to win them the CL with the most anti-football tactics you've ever seen in your life. Shades of nothing.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Not sure why you feel that Tottenham have lower expectations. We are striving for a top 4 finish.
Just look at how much money they are investing in the new state of the art stadium.

Apart from maintenance of the current situation where is the similar level of Glazier investment in the club, stadium or players.

Tottenham are investing in the future. United are at best standing still.
I never exactly say their expectation is lower, you are entitled to think Spurs has less expectation but don’t argue about it with me. I said United have different expectation with Spurs not lower.

Our aim is to win trophy not top 4. The only reason why we are aiming for top 4 right now is because it’s not possible to win the league after what Jose has done to us.

Tottenham is investing for the stadium because they have to, it’s also part of the aim of the owner to gain more money. The white hart lane capacity was twice less than Old Trafford. Even their new stadium still less capacity than Old Trafford.
 
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