Ole made multiple Cup finals and finished 3rd and 2nd. Southgate had 2 lucky draws and his best result was against the worst Germany side in the past 30 years that had run stale with Low, essentially. He was playing with a stacked deck to help him go far and beat the teams they should beat... But he also couldn't beat anyone on a similar level.
Southgate vs Solskjaer
- Thread starter PoTMS
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Didn’t ole only get to one final?
Both of them are completely mediocre and should be nowhere near the elite tier of football management. The Championship is the level befitting the tactical incompetence of them. Neither of them earned their jobs at England and United either and instead were hired due to being English and a former player respectively
Well Oles biggest sucess was reaching the Euro league final, but it is the second rated competition that we did not want to play in over CL.
England is the only side in Europe that reached two semi finals in a row and one final. Those are the two competitions that England cares about.
Both results pretty good even if English fans want to win and are bitter about the final loss on pens.
In the end when you coach a massive side you want the trophies and both failed when they reached the finals, but overall compared to expectations I say that Southgate did a better job so far.
Beavis v Butthead
It's hard to criticize the results from the 2 tournaments so far, but performances have mostly been garbage and was basically just grinding out results against much inferior teams. He did well at not being on the wrong end of an upset, which is important and what I'll definitely give him credit for. But to me, if you look at the schedule and the matches as they came, he pretty much did "as expected" and never went above that.
Correct, I don't know why I thought he lost an FA Cup final. Was semi's.
Europa league semi as well. I’m fully prepared to die on this hill but i still maintain Ole did a good job at United, in spite of how it ended.
How many finals has Southgate gotten to?
Well I think in Euros at least they deserved to be in the final. Could have won it with on pens with some more luck. They defended really well all tournament and was a very hard side to beat even if they did not score loads with goals.
In the world cup against Colombia they won on pens so fine margains. I agree the difference between failure and sucess is tiny in these tournaments.
They could have beaten Croatia as well and reached a final. A tight game. Likely lost to France who looked very good.
Yeah, to be honest I'm of the opinion that all the managers (barring Moyes) did alright, for a time, relative to their own individual coaching ability.
- Moyes was shit, though firmly on him IMO. Not a top tier manager, so why expect him to succeed at a top club?
- Van Gaal finished 4th, implemented his system (just was boring as feck), and then won the FA Cup with a very young squad and a group of very meh players as he was doing a huge overhaul. He probably wasn't capable of being a title winning manager in current day, because hes too stubborn to adapt to other players so he wouldn't be able to work with good enough players on a daily basis
- Mourinho isn't a top manager and hasn't been since his Madrid team. Had 1 year with Chelsea after. At United, he still had an encouraging 1st year and then 2nd year finished 2nd to Peps 100 point city and reached a cup final, hardly an embarrassment, but the 3rd year also was a standard Mourinho 3rd year collapse (and after his time here has shown he's not a top manager anymore).
- Ole finished 3rd and 2nd and had multiple good cup runs. A poisoned chalice is not a job where essentially nobody managers can come in and do that. He was never at the level to compete with guys like Pep/Klopp/Tuchel etc, but he did pretty decently until it was time for a step up and he couldn't do it.
England as well. They need a coach. Southgate doesn't have a hope in hell coming up against good groups of players who also have good, progressive coaches (Netherlands, Germany, Spain).
Both are crap, Southgate is miles better than Ole.
Yeah but like I said, they had absolute dream draws 2 tournaments in a row. The only country with close to similar talent levels was Germany at Wembley, and that was the worst German collective group with their team spirit and coaching for I don't know how long. They were long done with Low, he should've been replaced a good 5 years prior. Other than that, they were not anywhere close to being evenly matched games against any other nation.
Like, if he didn't make the semi's against Sweden and Colombia it would be a huge flop. Or if he didn't get past Denmark and Ukraine (after the tournament panned out how it did for Denmark, they didn't have the steam to keep up). He did well in not flopping or having a big upset, but he was little more than a cheerleader who will come short eventually
One is done things that previous two decades of managers failed to do so in that job.
not winning the europa league in two attempts was a huge flop in fairness
Naaaah come on. Southgate got to a semi final in a World Cup, followed by losing the Euros in penalties. There was literally nothing else he could've done in the Euros run.
Ole lost a Europa League final
they are not the same
Ole lost a Europa League final
they are not the sameDebatable. He literally could have not compromised us before a ball was even kicked in the shootout. He also literally could have taken the game to an aging Italian side rather than timidly retreating into a ball just because we went 1-0 up.Naaaah come on. Southgate got to a semi final in a World Cup, followed by losing the Euros in penalties. There was literally nothing else he could've done in the Euros run.
Ole lost a Europa League final
Not saying it wasn't a good tournament outcome but of course he could have done more, he wasn't infallible.
I feel like the ones defending Southgate since his bottle job are the same ones who defended Ole for waaaay too long, too.
You may have a point. But I think his gameplan was clear from the beginning, it got him to the final, and for most the 90 minutes they led the game. Really, his plan worked
haha yeah that was me too. I gave up on him around the time before the EL finalEngland aren't as fortunate as Man United.
I think if Southgate doesn't leave by himself, he will do just enough to stick around for the next 2 tournies.
Well yes you can complain on his cautious style, but I think it has given good results. I am not sure another style would give much better results. Very few national sides are that attacking. Arguably he is not the best cautious manager for England though and could develop the style better.
It is Germany years ago that was very attacking I think, but even them struggled in games when they won the world cup.
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They're almost the same person. Both nice blokes, always saying the right thing and want to please people but both are crap managers.
Both are absolutely atrocious.
It's more that in the final he completely mishandled it rather than an overall criticism of his style. My main point was in response to the idea he couldn't have done more in the Euros.
I don't think anybody was happy to see us dropping off entirely against Italy. We might be playing Italy, but we are not in fact Italy. It didn't seem like something that would work out from such an early point in the game. That didn't require genius level management, it was clear as day.
Then frustratingly we were the slightly stronger side towards the end and in extra time, at which point he had already been completely reactive with subs giving them less time. It left me thinking that a more proactive manager would have won us that match as while Italy had good possession players and were entitled to some strong periods, we underutilised our resources and they maximised theirs.
Yeah it is a bit similar with Ole waiting too long with subs. I think they trust the starting players too much and do not want to remove a potential match winner.
Although fresh legs in extra time should be better than that though.
OneHow many finals has Southgate gotten to?
Waistcoat was always a fraud.
You can't really compare the two. International football is so different.
One thing I am sure of though and that is Soughgate isn't finishing 2nd with the same squad Ole managed in a million years.
Who tf cares about nations league. England will do great in the WC under Southgate. Of course people will banter him after a horrific result like this, but they wont say losing an euro final is a good feat either.
He got some serious answers today and that whats matter in a game like this, not the results
He got some serious answers today and that whats matter in a game like this, not the results
Both are pretty equal. At least ole got us to play some fun football. Southgate doesn't even do that. But again we are talking who is less shit. I would have Ole over southgate.
But I would say both are better than Lampard and Arteta. But again many are better than those two.
But I would say both are better than Lampard and Arteta. But again many are better than those two.
They are the same person
Southgate is more cautious. I want to say that is how you win cup competitions, but...
Adds nothing to the discussion
2 shire managers.
One is Captain politically correct and only got the job after it was soiled by the likes of Allardyce.
The other is Gollums stunt double who is constantly compared to managers with less than half his experience showing just how clueless he is.
Neither are, we’re or will be any good.
One is Captain politically correct and only got the job after it was soiled by the likes of Allardyce.
The other is Gollums stunt double who is constantly compared to managers with less than half his experience showing just how clueless he is.
Neither are, we’re or will be any good.
What kind of moron makes fun of people appearance, oh wait.
Ludicrous thread
Jesus, a fairly well balanced opinion on the caf, I’ve seen it all now.
They are the same person
Why are cnuts like this not banned straight away?
The managers has been above avarage but still not top by the time of them managing United. However, the biggest issue has for sure been the club structure that these managers are put in to.
When it comes to England National Team it is not just a question of coach but of education. German, Spanish and Dutch players have been schooled in progressive football all their lives.
Is the structure the biggest issue? Is it really? It's part of it, but there's nothing in it preventing a top manager getting us to play like a top team. They have time and freedom to bring in their own staff and coach their style. They have the finances to bring in players they want. We have played like a disjointed team with no style, because we've had managers who didn't know how to train a style befitting of a top team. At least not one that can match up with other top clubs. And is that a surprise that Ole or Mourinho couldn't match up with Pep or Klopp on similar resources? You say above average... Ole's previous experience is getting relegated with Cardiff. If a manager who was relegation tier can come in and finish 3rd and 2nd with multiple semi finals and a cup final, is it really an impossible structure to work in?
Sometimes, it is really that simple. The structure hasn't been the best, but the biggest problem with the structure has been the terrible appointments and a lack of cohesion in recruitment between managers. The managers have controlled the plans essentially, so the new guy would change from the old guy. Which isn't an issue if you just have a good manager in charge who doesn't get sacked.