Television Star Trek

berbatrick

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https://www.theguardian.com/culture...ot-that-boldly-goes-where-nobody-wanted-it-to

Yet the idea that the grittiness of shows such as Picard makes it mature and relevant, while the ethos of yesteryear Star Trek is now naive or too old-fashioned to survive, feels misjudged. The hope, optimism and sincerity of the original 60s series was in itself a radical act: a way of portraying the future as it should be (a multiracial cast in a time of civil rights struggle; peace and cooperation in a time of nuclear terror), rather than merely wallowing in things as they were.

In the 90s, the darker spin-off show Deep Space Nine pre-empted Picard’s themes by 27 years, asking what happens when the principles of the Federation are compromised by war. The difference was that Deep Space Nine, much like the best of Star Trek, managed to balance its meatier themes of PTSD, faith and wartime atrocities with episodes where everyone got dressed up to visit a holographic version of 60s Las Vegas.

It is this, more than anything else, that is fundamentally lacking from modern Star Trek: a sense of tonal texture, a spirit of curiosity about different worlds and cultures, and the crackling chemistry of a warm and interesting crew. Instead, as is the case with Picard, its new characters have felt like broadly drawn “badasses” at best and, at worst, downright cold and unlikable. The prime example being Michelle Hurd’s new addition Raffi: the wise-cracking ex-Starfleet officer who insists on calling Picard “JL” (instead of Jean-Luc), and can often be seen vaping.
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And yet the appetite of modern audiences for that bygone era of Star Trek storytelling still exists. Just take the popularity of one of the strangest things on TV: The Orville. Originally trailed as Seth MacFarlane’s Family Guy-esque parody of Star Trek-style sci-fi, it has instead revealed itself as a trojan horse for his at-times entirely sincere Star Trek: The Next Generation fan-fiction, featuring MacFarlane cosplaying as the dashing captain of his very own Enterprise. Its aesthetics are similar, its stories are similar, it is clearly based around Roddenberry’s ethos of exploration and optimism. There are even episodes written and directed by 90s Star Trek writers and directors.

As we all cower in our homes for fear of a threat that we cannot see, a dose of optimism about the future would be more appreciated than ever. But, sadly, all we are left with is a choice between Star Trek that doesn’t really feel like Star Trek at all, or a dodgy covers band playing the greatest hits. What a fate for a once-great franchise.
Again, I haven't seen Picard, but the characterisation stood out to me in STD too. There were either total nerds or there were cold action heroes. Michael Burnham was both. None had any depth. Generic action series things.
 

Andycoleno9

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I am rewatching TNG. Man, TNG is a few levels above every other ST shows. Nearly every episode is classic. Masterpiece. DS9 is also fantastic but TNG is...wow
 

Twins

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I am rewatching TNG. Man, TNG is a few levels above every other ST shows. Nearly every episode is classic. Masterpiece. DS9 is also fantastic but TNG is...wow
The first two seasons were rough though.
 

Raoul

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I am rewatching TNG. Man, TNG is a few levels above every other ST shows. Nearly every episode is classic. Masterpiece. DS9 is also fantastic but TNG is...wow
Having a great actor like Stewart, good overall casting, and top notch writing tends to do that.
 

Tiber

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New series announced

When I first watched discovery I couldn't get into it. I recently gave it another chance and enjoyed both series. I thought that Pike and Spock were really strong characters
 
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George Owen

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When I first watched dusvicery I couldn;t get into it. I recently gave it another chance and enjoyed both series. I thought that Pike and Spock were really strong characters
That's because you let yourself being influenced by the melancholic old farts who used to watch Star Trek back in the old days. (You know who you are)

Discovery > Picard, not even close.
 

VP89

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Ah coincidental timing. I watched the movies Star Trek 1 and 2 and really enjoyed it. Got the third to go but have to say, I'm looking forward to posters inevitably trashing on the films I enjoyed.
 

Tiber

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That's because you let yourself being influenced by the melancholic old farts who used to watch Star Trek back in the old days. (You know who you are)

Discovery > Picard, not even close.
Orville > both of them.
 

Fingeredmouse

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That's because you let yourself being influenced by the melancholic old farts who used to watch Star Trek back in the old days. (You know who you are)

Discovery > Picard, not even close.
It was the better show mostly because there's a handful of episodes in series 2 that are decent. Picard was a total disaster in the end.
 

Raoul

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That's because you let yourself being influenced by the melancholic old farts who used to watch Star Trek back in the old days. (You know who you are)

Discovery > Picard, not even close.
Discovery is terrible in every conceivable category. I suspect they will transition it out once the new show gains a bit of momentum.
 

Andycoleno9

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That's because you let yourself being influenced by the melancholic old farts who used to watch Star Trek back in the old days. (You know who you are)

Discovery > Picard, not even close.
Oi...have some respect to us old people :) .

On a serious note. Discovery is just shit. You can be old, young, st fan or not....it is complete shit.
 

George Owen

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Orville > both of them.
Haven't seen it yet.

Is it really worth giving a go? Everything I have read has been pretty harsh on it.
For sure, it's a quick watch. I mean, it's not The Wire on space, but if you like spaceships and shit like that, it's good fun.

Just for reference, I've never seen the old Star Trek shows. Only have seen the new movies (which I enjoyed a lot, except maybe for the third one).

Some viewers of the older shows apparently took offense on the way the Romulans looked, but for me it was Ok. I enjoyed them talking about eating human flesh and decapitating a fecking baby on screen. I was "Holy Shit", not bad for a netflix tv show. Despite the cartoonish look of the show, it was way darker than I expected, which was very good.

It was the better show mostly because there's a handful of episodes in series 2 that are decent. Picard was a total disaster in the end.
Yeah Picard was a disaster, no doubt. The final episode was more than decent though.

Discovery is terrible in every conceivable category. I suspect they will transition it out once the new show gains a bit of momentum.
Nah, you are exaggerating. You telling me you didn't felt nothing when Katrina Cornwell
sacrificed herself
?

Oi...have some respect to us old people :) .

On a serious note. Discovery is just shit. You can be old, young, st fan or not....it is complete shit.
I was just messing with y'all (specially Raoul). :lol:
 

Dante

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Season 3 of Discovery starts on Thursday.

It'll be good to watch a proper Star Trek series again that honours the show's legacy after the travesty that was Picard. Hopefully they return to using the more scientifically accurate Klingon models from season 1, rather than the comic book style we saw in season 2.
 

Andycoleno9

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Season 3 of Discovery starts on Thursday.

It'll be good to watch a proper Star Trek series again that honours the show's legacy after the travesty that was Picard. Hopefully they return to using the more scientifically accurate Klingon models from season 1, rather than the comic book style we saw in season 2.
Discovery is travesty, not Picard. Picard wasn't something special but still was true star trek. Michael and company are insult to star trek.
 

Tiber

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Discovery is travesty, not Picard. Picard wasn't something special but still was true star trek. Michael and company are insult to star trek.
I disagree, I struggled to get into Discovery at first, but I found I liked it on the second attempt - especially season 2.

Having said that, the best thing about Discovery was Pike. Very much looking forward to his new spinoff series.
 

Pagh Wraith

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Decided not to continue with Discovery. I stopped watching half-way through season two and returned for the finale which was a mistake. I've really had enough of that tripe. Picard isn't great either (the writing in season 1 was dreadful at times) but I'll give it another shot, mainly because of Patrick Stewart.

Really looking forward to new episodes of The Orville and The Expanse though!
 

Raoul

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Discovery is travesty, not Picard. Picard wasn't something special but still was true star trek. Michael and company are insult to star trek.
Agree. Picard was enjoyable and given how most series improve after season 1, I'm hoping season 2 will be better.
 

RedSky

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I didn't mind Discovery Season 2, it was pretty good. Picard Season 1 was a struggle to get through, similar to Season 1 of Discovery.

Orville is fun, but I found the last season a bit shit if i'm being honest.
 

Fingeredmouse

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Discovery is travesty, not Picard. Picard wasn't something special but still was true star trek. Michael and company are insult to star trek.
They're both shit but Discovery is, and I can't believe I'm saying this, less shit than Picard.

I'll still watch it though and, like after the start of Picard and after the start of Discovery Season 2, I'll get a bit of hope that'll be proven unjustified as it descends into a nonsensical shooty bangy cringe fest.
 

berbatrick

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Orville is fun, but I found the last season a bit shit if i'm being honest.
I thought it improved a lot! My main criticism was that some of the big plots were modifications of what we've seen before in Trek (mostly TNG and DS9).
 

RedSky

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I thought it improved a lot! My main criticism was that some of the big plots were modifications of what we've seen before in Trek (mostly TNG and DS9).
Some of the characters got annoying and the plot was dull. Just didn't do it for me. Season to forget. I actually preferred Discovery season 2 if im honest and ive been very critical of it.
 

Hammerfell

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Is anyone watching the new season of Discovery? I really like what they're doing so far, it's refreshingly different.
 

Twins

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Is anyone watching the new season of Discovery? I really like what they're doing so far, it's refreshingly different.
Only saw the first episode so far and it just seemed to be a fairly random sequence of action scenes. Can't say I was too impressed.
 

Dante

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Is anyone watching the new season of Discovery? I really like what they're doing so far, it's refreshingly different.
Yep, I am.

Episode 1 felt more like Star Wars than Star Trek. It was decent in its own right, though. Any real Star Trek fan will tell you that the show's universe is strong enough to handle changes in direction, genre and tone.

Episode 2 was excellent. It's much more like the best that Star Trek has to offer, ie. Discovery season 1.
 

Fingeredmouse

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I am not talking about quality (tbf,i like it). I am talking about theme. Picard is in ST theme. Discovery is like classic sci-fi show.
I'm not sure I'd even agree with that. I see very little of the themes explored in TNG and the ethical aspects and philosophy are very different.

I'm glad you enjoyed it but I found it to be an often bewildering (I have absolutely no idea what the Romulans' plot and motivation was meant to be at all for instance and Picard's behaviours were so out of character that I just found the show mystifying by about 4 episodes in) and unnecessary addendum to a great show that ended well.