I've almost finished this. It's not that bad all.
Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
- Start date
You are right, but you are also wrong. They are silly, but they played a seminal role in the cinematic universe. They have become so much more than just a story set in a galaxy far, far away. Some don't buy into it. Most don't! But for some they're works of art! SW occupies a special place in my heart. I can't tell you why, but they do.
As for your point of being born in '93 and enjoying the original more than the prequel - that is interesting.
It's like Sean Connery. My generation grew up with Roger Moore. And THAT is who Bond is. But some preferred Connery. The sophisticated movie-goer thought Connery was better, but there were more Pretenders who just said he was best 'cause it sounds cooler. Yeah?
What are you? Sophisticated or just a Pretender? I believe the former :-)
Inconceivable!
They changed cinema, and were hugely influential films, I do agree. But just taken as they are, they're not without their faults. I've heard the thing about the best Bond being whoever was around when you got into the series, and that probably holds a lot of truth for most people. I just think when comparing the old SW films with the new ones, there's such a gap in quality that it's able to transcend nostalgia. That said, no doubt there are lots of people who will prefer the prequels, both reasons personal to them and just because they objectively prefer them as films.
Believe me, I don't hold any opinions on Star Wars because I think it'll make me sound cool.
Sorry but the prequels were objectively shitty movies. I enjoyed them, I've probably watched all of them all a dozen times but the script, dialogue, acting and editing are all basically impossible to defend. The originals were just higher quality movies (even RotJ which was a fair drop off from the previous two) and ESB was a genuinely great movie. Theres no competition tbh. You can enjoy them more and prefer them but they're just not better movies.
Also Connery's Bond hasn't aged at all well. I think i preferred his movies when i was younger but watching them recently Moore's Bond fares much better and has a lot less cringe.
Also Connery's Bond hasn't aged at all well. I think i preferred his movies when i was younger but watching them recently Moore's Bond fares much better and has a lot less cringe.
Except Rogue One and The Mandalorian seemed to satisfy people, it's only the three shit sequels that get called out for being shit sequels. Then all criticism seems to get brushed aside as manbabies, trolls or people who aren't ready for a strong female character. Both sides of the argument are as bad as each other.
I never noticed that. I did always find it odd though that the Millenium Falcon just happened to have a helmet you couldn't see out of. Helmets in Star Wars in general are a strange fantastical element, like the fact Storm Trooper helmets don't seem to protect them from anything including having sand kicked in their eyes. Although to be fair, Jake Lloyd did have a massive pumpkin head.I watched Willow a couple of weeks ago and still very much enjoyed it. I still very much enjoy Star Wars, however the sequels and prequels are often abysmal. You can't put that on people getting older, they made bad films and it's no one's fault but their own.
Yeah I saw that. I don't see how they can possibly work her in given her character is so tied to Luke. She'd have to be a completely different character who just happens to be an angry ginger called Mara Jade.
Shame, for all the talk they did early on about strong female characters they wiped out some great ones that were beloved in the expanded universe.
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I prefer Dalton despite growing up with Moore as Bond.
SW is cool as feck!...Believe me, I don't hold any opinions on Star Wars because I think it'll make me sound cool.
That is the only explanation I can find in my reality. According to me the sequels and the prequels were great and complementary to the originals. So, whenever I hear someone slagging the later ones off I assume they are being critical for the sake of being critical. Some, and maybe you're one of them, just simply don't like them, and that's all right! Most are just trying to be fashionable non-conformist. But who are those? Mmmm?
The ones who like it or those who don't...?
No one's trying to be fashionable or non-conformist, they are giving opinions on films they've seen and are possibly passionate about. If you like them then good for you, if you don't then not good for you. I don't think it's any sort of fashion statement or attempt to fit into a movement. At least I hope it's not because that would be incredibly sad.
I don't think you really need to explain it, it's like anything some people will like it and some people won't. I don't know how you've worked out most are trying to be fashionable though, there's an awful lot there to criticise.
I guess i grew up with Dalton. 84 on was around his time wasn't it? Yeah i liked his movies too. I watched a couple of Connery Bonds with my 10 year old neice, she wasn't impressed by how women were treated in his movies
Probably not the best circumstances to watch them in
It is indeed incredibly sad. I believe most people don't make up their own mind - not saying it's you. People don't really think for themselves. Most I know leave the movie theater and willfully wait for their friends to say if they liked it or not before commenting themselves. It's not a groundbreaking theory.
A blockbuster franchise like SW is loaded with false likes and dislikes.
Everything has people following the herd, but at the end of the day you have to take someone going to the bother of posting their opinion about something at face value. Otherwise you may as well just dismiss all opinions.
I had to look it up, The Living Daylights was 87 and Licence to Kill was 89.I guess i grew up with Dalton. 84 on was around his time wasn't it? Yeah i liked his movies too. I watched a couple of Connery Bonds with my 10 year old neice, she wasn't impressed by how women were treated in his movies
Probably not the best circumstances to watch them in
All the Connery ones have blurred together in my memory. Moore is where I got into it, it was like an action comedy with him. Then Dalton got serious and brooding with the odd one liner. Then Brosnan was like a middle ground between the two.
See what she thinks of Roger Moore putting a midget in a suitcase and throwing him into the sea.
I kind of feel like she's been made the scapegoat (spacegoat) or this whole thing, with the biggest criticism being that she's out of her depth. But she's been producing movies since the 80s and Raiders of the Lost Ark ffs. She's hardly an amateur and has a shit ton of solid successes. I can't help but feel that the problem lies higher up the chain and the heavy demands of the Big Mouse.
Funny because I feel the complete opposite. The only people I know who hold the originals in such high regard have watched it as kids, often around the time it came out in theaters. I have a much older step brother who watched A New Hope in theaters and told me that while the graphics look shitty by today's standards, it was mindblowing back then, and those kinds of perspectives just stick with you for the next 20+ years. But I think those had poor acting and even poorer fight scenes, and a lack of context in regards to the Empire and the war. (Don't get me wrong because I still love the movies. And I like how the Jedi were portrayed so mysteriously and cryptic.)
This is where the prequels did a decent job of filling in the holes and illustrating the steps that led to the empire in the first place. The whole political situation was something I liked a lot as well because apart from the story, it's an apt allegory to world politics these days, at least from my US perspective. So many hate on Anakin's personality but it kind of makes sense why he's the way he is. Literally spent his whole childhood as a slave and had strong connection with his mother as he has no father figure around until the Jedi came along and Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan took him in. Spends all of his teenager years in a strict setting, constant training, celibacy, probably punished for showing too much emotion, etc. when people his age are probably doing relatively normal stuff and having a life with friends their age. So of course Anakin was going to be a mess around Padme and generally be unstable, which combined with raw power, made him a target by Palpatine. My biggest gripe with the prequels is the damn midichlorians.
You mean she wasn't a fan of this absolute gem?I guess i grew up with Dalton. 84 on was around his time wasn't it? Yeah i liked his movies too. I watched a couple of Connery Bonds with my 10 year old neice, she wasn't impressed by how women were treated in his movies
Probably not the best circumstances to watch them in
Never understood the midichlorians hate. It was a pretty much small detail in the grand scheme of things, with its only relevance establishing Anakin’s godlike potential on the Force.
The fact that Disney wanted the movies out at such a fast pace was a big problem.
Decided to submit to the Mouse and get Disney+ to go through the entire thing, tv shows included, chronologically. Because nerd.
Starting TPM and it still baffles me that the same man who envisioned this from the start as being like an old tv serial, and who kicked the whole thing off with an amazing shot of two ships fighting in space, thought that the saga should canonically begin with the taxation of trade routes being in dispute.
Starting TPM and it still baffles me that the same man who envisioned this from the start as being like an old tv serial, and who kicked the whole thing off with an amazing shot of two ships fighting in space, thought that the saga should canonically begin with the taxation of trade routes being in dispute.
Look, you should be happy that you're in the tiny minority of humans without life altering traumatic brain injuries that like the prequels. It makes you you. Adds a little colour.
They're not the worst blockbusters ever made (Transformers?), nor the stupidest (Transformers?), not the most offensive (Transformers?) but they might just be the weirdest. So much weirdness. They also look like they were made by someone who had never seen a film but had the concept of movies explained to them once in a bar.
And that someone wasn't a human. So fecking weird.
It's cool to like weird things. Be glad few people agree with you.
He's tonally all over the place, wants to sell toys to kids but tell an adult story about a man falling to the dark side and murdering a bunch of folk. The whole thing escalating from the taxation of trade routes isn't a bad idea, but again it's just handled badly.
What's weird about the prequels? They're just crap to middling variants on the originals.
Everything is weird about the prequels. They're nothing line the originals or anything else really.
As one example, and every facet is like this,: The plot lines are genuinely bizarre and the originals were straightforward and linear drama.
If you don't believe me, write the plot line of "A New Hope". It's easy and simple.
Now try it for "The Phantom Menace".
Wow I thought I was the only one. I loved growing up with Moore but then Dalton just blew me away as a teenager. Shame he didn't fancy carrying on. Remington Steel was the right upgrade but never reached the heights for me.
Isn't it just evil senator manipulates trade war in Sith power grab, but new hope found in big-headed kid?
I like bits and bobs here and there in the prequels, eg the gladiator-style fight in an arena in Attack of the Clones, but broadly they're pretty meh. Saying they're weird to me suggests they tried something original or leftfield, which they didn't.
The most recent ones are very unmemorable with stupid plots and lame acting.
ET aliens are canon in Star Wars, I always forget that.
The acting has always been ropey to be fair. The prequels had the wooden Hayden Christensen. Actually come to think of it Portman and Christensen put me off the Prequels...and let's not even talk about the cringeworthy love story eh. Must say I did like Mandalorian though...perhaps the SW franchise can get a modern makeover.
The new ones lack story continuity and that shows. The New Hope rewamp left it wide open and gave the franchise a promising start. But not having a clear storyline throughout really messed these sequels up. Disney's need for a female hero and their need to kill off the old guard was neither well done nor necessary. The prequels had a plot and a storyline and served a purpose to the story and the universe.
So as a trilogy it just doesn't work all that well and as a part of 9 movies it doesn't do the ones that came before it any good at all. They have a beginning, a mess of a middle and a patchy ending.
I will rank Disney's efforts as following.
Rogue One
The Mandalorian
TFA
Rise of Skywalker
Solo
Last Jedi.
So as a trilogy it just doesn't work all that well and as a part of 9 movies it doesn't do the ones that came before it any good at all. They have a beginning, a mess of a middle and a patchy ending.
I will rank Disney's efforts as following.
Rogue One
The Mandalorian
TFA
Rise of Skywalker
Solo
Last Jedi.
I'd have Rise of Skywalker at the bottom, the whole thing was a train wreck, probably the only Star Wars film i've finished watching and flat out hated. Solo tried to do something different but holy feck was the middle of the film a disaster. Last Jedi had its moments but it was also filled with some insane garbage. Like Solo, the middle of the film was awful. But unlike Solo the start of the film was also bad.
Quality wise, even though TFA suffered a disappointing final third it was miles better than the other 3.
Rogue one
The Mandalorian
TFA (I still think the first 30/45mins of this film is superb)
Solo
Last Jedi
Rise of Skywalker
Its no coincidence that the one considered the best star wars film I.e empire wasn't just written by lucas.
Pretty much this for me.
TLJ
TFA
Rogue One
Solo
ROS
And having just re-watched Attack of the Clones, I can accurately say that film has no redeeming features.
TFA
Rogue One
Solo
ROS
And having just re-watched Attack of the Clones, I can accurately say that film has no redeeming features.
I agree with you on the TFA and by no means does Rise of Skywalker being that high up my list state that it's a good movie. But I can tell you that me going to that movie with my son and he having lots of fun might have a lot to do with it but it's a wreck of a movie.
Solo should probably be higher as I thought that one was an very enjoyable action flick that without the Star Wars branding would probably have faired ok. But I think Disney and JJ had huge problems going into TROS because of the plot holes, the state of the franchise due to the handling of The last Jedi it just left the story and it's characters in an absolute state, it's handling of the two main characters and their progression in this trilogy left them with a huge problem and comes back to not having a thought out plan and a clear storyline for this trilogy.
That's not an excuse really for TROS but it's just a fact that clearly shows. The film is a mess but for most parts I thought the film was a fun ride but a terrible movie as a end to the new trilogy and absolutely not any good but like my son thought it was fun and I was probably tainted by that. But after The last Jedi it was probably not hard to make an more entertaining movie.
But anyway my take on this is that Disney's handling of the franchise has been diabolic to say the least. Not a chance in hell anyone of those movies will go down as a modern classic not a chance. These movies are just a money making tool and they serve a purpose of fan service but like Marvel they could at least have a clear laid out path at the beginning.
Watched most of the film at the weekend. Pretty meh. What I found most interesting is that my 7 year old has just watched most of the entire Star Wars canon, obviously knowing nothing about release order or anything like that (apart from the most recent two films). His fave film is actually the Phantom Menace, which is kind of weird (I saw some of it with him when he watched it, still looked bad to me). His top 5 were
Phantom Menace
New Hope
Empire
Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One
He says the three sequel films are his least favourite. He also rates Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalorian as all being better than the films (he's seen most of them too). Makes me wonder how I'd see the films if I watched them all in a mad 8 week lockdown period for the first time as a kid.
Phantom Menace
New Hope
Empire
Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One
He says the three sequel films are his least favourite. He also rates Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalorian as all being better than the films (he's seen most of them too). Makes me wonder how I'd see the films if I watched them all in a mad 8 week lockdown period for the first time as a kid.
Your kid has good taste
It must be great watching these films as a kid for the first time without any adult prejudices of having seen a New Hope as a kid or having hated Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones 25 years on. Everything is just one long enchanting, magical story that leaves you wanting more.
Midway through this. I think I hate it? Frantic mess with an awful story.
Thought this was stupid fun when I saw it in the cinema. Caught a bit of it earlier and the balance was a lot more towards stupid than I remembered. As in "more stupid than Man of Steel" type stupid.
Also, having the two nobody characters share a lesbian kiss in the background at the end of the film is such a faux-progressive cop out. The people who wanted John Boyega and Oscar Isaacs' characters to be gay were right, it would have made for a more interesting film and better actual representation.
Also, having the two nobody characters share a lesbian kiss in the background at the end of the film is such a faux-progressive cop out. The people who wanted John Boyega and Oscar Isaacs' characters to be gay were right, it would have made for a more interesting film and better actual representation.
They cut them out in some regions too. Just to really drive home how little they give a feck about it.
Enjoyed it for the most part, especially after having recently revisited the middle three cartoons of the 2000s.