Randall Flagg
Worst of the best
Zombies 3 stoke 1
What was the job? Misplacing passes and letting the opposition attack us when they pleased?I wouldnt put too much into last nights game....it's like we weren't even bothered for 80 minutes and then decided, ok...lets finish them off.
And Giggs really did his job fairly well last night...
It would be nice to have a first choice midfield two though. When everyone is fit we should be able to say that any two are our best midfielders.It's really nothing to worry about, because we were always going to play badly with such an odd lineup. Neither Giggs or Anderson are the sort of midfielder who sets a tempo and keeps our rhythm going, and despite Rooney's best efforts he's not a Cleverley or Scholes either.
But as long as we have one of those two in the line-up, which presumably we always will this season in our 'first' team, then we won't have to worry about having the same problems as last night.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should be moving to a midfield 3, at least for the short term future. We don't have any midfielders who are genuinely world class enough to make a 2 viable against the big opponents, for a start. What we do have is a few who are (ignoring last night's bizarre one-off) in very good form.It would be nice to have a first choice midfield two though. When everyone is fit we should be able to say that any two are our best midfielders.
Yeah but then you end up with Rooney out wide. Why not just have Carrick clev/ando and then Rooney just ahead as he has been in recent weeks? I agree on going to a 433 but I don't think it makes sense to play ando and clev and put Rooney in an even more unnatural position, don't think Clev/Ando have shown enough goal threat/cutting edge to justify that, if it were Kagawa and he and Rooney could switch between who was wide and who played central then fair enough but I don't think Ando/Clev are as good as him even if he was a bit off before his injury.I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should be moving to a midfield 3, at least for the short term future. We don't have any midfielders who are genuinely world class enough to make a 2 viable against the big opponents, for a start. What we do have is a few who are (ignoring last night's bizarre one-off) in very good form.
Cleverley, Carrick and Anderson would make a perfectly balanced trio in the middle. And anyone who is still arguing that either Young or Nani are playing well enough at the moment to merit inclusion over any of those three is clearly not actually watching the football.
We played a midfield 3 last night and was probably our worst performance in terms of chance creation.I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should be moving to a midfield 3, at least for the short term future. We don't have any midfielders who are genuinely world class enough to make a 2 viable against the big opponents, for a start. What we do have is a few who are (ignoring last night's bizarre one-off) in very good form.
Cleverley, Carrick and Anderson would make a perfectly balanced trio in the middle. And anyone who is still arguing that either Young or Nani are playing well enough at the moment to merit inclusion over any of those three is clearly not actually watching the football.
Calling Giggs-Anderson-Rooney a "midfield three" is like calling Fletcher-Brown-Heinze-Richardson a "back four".We played a midfield 3 last night and was probably our worst performance in terms of chance creation.
Yeah, I think you'll find that was when the lights went out and the ref in fact did stop the game.At one point one of our players had the ball and everybody else was literally just standing there. I genuinely thought the ref had stopped play.
Sometimes it depends on what has been practiced at training. Sometimes you want players to move away from the guy with the ball because the opposition are marking players tightly and by moving away you drag defenders out of the ball carriers space.Sometimes, everyone just runs away from the player who has the ball. I dont understand that at all - it is nice to try to get into a free position but if you just run away, you leave the player with the ball completely alone. Play closer and move forward as a whole team FFS
This could also be seen to create space for the influential player on the ball to run forward.Sometimes, everyone just runs away from the player who has the ball. I dont understand that at all - it is nice to try to get into a free position but if you just run away, you leave the player with the ball completely alone. Play closer and move forward as a whole team FFS
As Siorac has said, that hardly counts. A striker and a geriatric ex-winger who really should have seen the signs by now are hardly the partners Anderson would have hoped for. I'm talking Anderson-Carrick/Fletcher-Cleverley/Scholes.We played a midfield 3 last night and was probably our worst performance in terms of chance creation.
Every time this 3-man midfield discussion comes up I end up posting the same formations to show that you definitely don't have to push Rooney out wide to make it work. I'm not going to do it again, but if you check my last posts you'll find a couple at least. Suffice to say you can do a diamond (which is, despite the name, essentially a three man midfield formation if we play Rooney at the tip), a 'pyramid' (4-3-2-1, my preference, with the front three a selection from Rooney, Kagawa, Van Persie and Hernandez), or a 4-3-3 where Rooney, although officially on the wing, actually has a free role, and Cleverley and Evra together provide the width.Yeah but then you end up with Rooney out wide. Why not just have Carrick clev/ando and then Rooney just ahead as he has been in recent weeks? I agree on going to a 433 but I don't think it makes sense to play ando and clev and put Rooney in an even more unnatural position, don't think Clev/Ando have shown enough goal threat/cutting edge to justify that, if it were Kagawa and he and Rooney could switch between who was wide and who played central then fair enough but I don't think Ando/Clev are as good as him even if he was a bit off before his injury.
I hear 'we're not a team built to play with a three man midfield' a fair bit these days. Personally, I don't see why not. 4-3-3 and the alternative versions of it which I have listed above suit a team with lots of form midfielders and strikers. Three midfielders, three strikers. Right now, that is what we have. Our wingers are either not that good (Young) or out of form (Nani and, to some extent, Valencia. Each of whom, when in form, could fit comfortably into the above systems in a variety of ways). Most of my proposed formations accommodate one winger, and I don't think either of the others are doing enough to merit inclusion. The 'not the United way' argument is pure bullshit. The 'United way' has to change with the times. A wing-oriented 442 is just not viable any more, and we have to adapt to a more possession-football, fluid system. Given that right now we have lots of players suited to this system who are in form, I'd say the time is right. You think we should settle on a formation and let the players get to know it inside out. I agree, although I think it's unlikely given Fergie's love of 'tactical anarchy'. But the options for that settled formation are the old one, 4-4-2, which has been repeatedly trounced by European teams (and some English ones) with more progressive systems, or some version of a 4-3-3, as above.@Brightonian: I would like that too but we are not a team to built to play with a 3 man mid on a regular basis. We have too many attacking players and strikers. The need to accommodate them and give them minutes takes precedent. They have often bailed us out of tough situations too so you can't really blame Fergie too much. It's a catch-22 with the available personnel. I don't think anything is going to be sorted until Scholes and Giggs retire and we have clarity on the Nani situation.
I would be pleased if we have a definite style of play that could be adopted in most games. A team, which playing well, should be able to take care of any opposition. I don't know how bright are the chances of that happening. I to and fro a lot when it comes to our team selections and style. One can probably get that from my posts.
Carrick/Anderson/Rooney. TC has done ok, but Carrick and Anderson is a better balanced 2, and Rooney would have to make up the third man over TC in my view.Yeah but then you end up with Rooney out wide. Why not just have Carrick clev/ando and then Rooney just ahead as he has been in recent weeks? I agree on going to a 433 but I don't think it makes sense to play ando and clev and put Rooney in an even more unnatural position, don't think Clev/Ando have shown enough goal threat/cutting edge to justify that, if it were Kagawa and he and Rooney could switch between who was wide and who played central then fair enough but I don't think Ando/Clev are as good as him even if he was a bit off before his injury.
Not in midfield where it is packed with players that are closing down the players with the ball. You're left there without options - well, except hoofing it upwardsThis could also be seen to create space for the influential player on the ball to run forward.
Yep, kept trying to hit over their defence for Hernandez and it never worked.I don't even think movement was the main issue. It was simply that last night United seemed to decide the Wimbledon way was the approach to take for much of the game. I lost count of the amount of times our midfielders went long. Until the lights went out there was relatively little desire to pass and move. It was Hollywood pass after Hollywood pass surrendering the ball cheaply to Braga time and time again.
But somehow still won 3-1, Chich got another goal, key players were rested and Smalling returned. PLENTY of positives in spite of the drabness.It was a pointless game, an experimental team and I think we would have happily taken a 0-0 before kick off.
No need to over-analyse this one really. One of the dullest matches I've ever seen.
I'm not sure they knew either man. I think Ferguson's idea in Europe this season is to keep the ball, keep the ball, keep the ball.....and then expect that his frightening forward line can conjure some magic out of this possession. I read somewhere yesterday that only Barcelona have a better pass completion rate than United in the Champions League this year, it was 90% overall, probably worthless now after last night. The difference clearly seen between United and Barcelona is the movement off the ball. The Catalans are far superior, far more comfortable as you would expect.I didn't understand what our midfield was doing for the first half. Rooney and Giggs were completely pointless and Anderson kept bursting into space and looking like he was about to do something really good...and then passing the ball directly to the nearest Braga player. Also, there seemed to be a competition going on between both teams to see who could overhit a pass directly off the pitch the most times.
I had to miss the second half so don't know what happened there. Surprised Giggs stayed on or wasn't reshuffled though, as he was offering nothing in the weird role he'd been asked to play. He wasn't even playing badly, he just seemed to have been put into this pointless holding, but not actually holding role.
I don't think it would work with Rooney tucked in with a midfield 3 behind him. Firstly going by our execution of a diamond so far it isn't like a 433, the way we played against Chelsea and Arsenal was very different to the games with a diamond. We don't really tuck our players in, off the ball in a diamond. Whoever the two wider players are in the diamond effectively keep their position, it was always Rooney, playing at the tip who had to come back the furthest to get in alongside the dm, be it Carrick or Flether.Every time this 3-man midfield discussion comes up I end up posting the same formations to show that you definitely don't have to push Rooney out wide to make it work. I'm not going to do it again, but if you check my last posts you'll find a couple at least. Suffice to say you can do a diamond (which is, despite the name, essentially a three man midfield formation if we play Rooney at the tip), a 'pyramid' (4-3-2-1, my preference, with the front three a selection from Rooney, Kagawa, Van Persie and Hernandez), or a 4-3-3 where Rooney, although officially on the wing, actually has a free role, and Cleverley and Evra together provide the width.
Yeah I agree, I think Ando is more of a natural fit my only concern is that recently we've ensure it's Ando who plays the more attacking role, even yest with Giggs and Rooney playing he was the most advanced. Could be that he's not showing enough discipline in training. Also think that again he showed that whilst in open games he can be a big force, in tighter games against organized teams he doesn't have the same impact and gives away the ball a bit too much. Clev has less direct impact to his game but I think he keeps the momentum going better on a more regular basis.Carrick/Anderson/Rooney. TC has done ok, but Carrick and Anderson is a better balanced 2, and Rooney would have to make up the third man over TC in my view.
Yeah it was very odd and in all honesty I think Fergie got lucky that their goalie gifted us a way back in the game as we needed to change the middle.I didn't understand what our midfield was doing for the first half. Rooney and Giggs were completely pointless and Anderson kept bursting into space and looking like he was about to do something really good...and then passing the ball directly to the nearest Braga player. Also, there seemed to be a competition going on between both teams to see who could overhit a pass directly off the pitch the most times.
I had to miss the second half so don't know what happened there. Surprised Giggs stayed on or wasn't reshuffled though, as he was offering nothing in the weird role he'd been asked to play. He wasn't even playing badly, he just seemed to have been put into this pointless holding, but not actually holding role.
They should never play together in this formation surely. RVP and Rooney starving up front.Awful passing. And guess what? It's Carrick and Scholes in a 4-4-2.
It is. We have actually been better since Scholes has been away. Now we are back to the depressing pass it to Scholes - who passes it to Valencia - who crosses it, mono shite.Awful passing. And guess what? It's Carrick and Scholes in a 4-4-2.