Static, slow motion zombie passing

[izec]

Herrara is being badly missed. Adding the in experienced Fellaini and Januzaj to the starting XI seriously curtailed our creativity. We need to bench Januzaj for Herrara pronto. RVP is feeding on scraps.

Agree.

I think it's Rooney causing all the problems, dropping far too deep and playing here, there and everywhere. He is involved in far too much, leaving a huge gap to RVP up top. Far too many passes in the middle of the pitch. Rooney is trying to dictate the play far too much. LVG should have told him at half time on saturday - play behind RVP.

Rooney is playing deeper because Fellaini cant play a pass over 5 yards. With Herrera, Rooney didnt drop that deep and they have a great understanding as far as i could see. Herrera is the key and has to play.

 

[IwatUwat]

Think against Arsenal we wont need Fellaini defensively as they are a small side, Herrera could thus come back in.

However maybe we could then use him attacking wise, and have a threat in the air. Thats the problem now, when do you drop him if his main attribute is physicality against bigger (size wise) teams we need him against smaller teams we could use him.

Personally I'd get Herrera back in the fold, enjoy watching him play, Carrick isn't small and can win aerial battles against their midfield.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think against Arsenal we wont need Fellaini defensively as they are a small side, Herrera could thus come back in.

However maybe we could then use him attacking wise, and have a threat in the air. Thats the problem now, when do you drop him if his main attribute is physicality against bigger (size wise) teams we need him against smaller teams we could use him.

Personally I'd get Herrera back in the fold, enjoy watching him play, Carrick isn't small and can win aerial battles against their midfield.

I'd have Fellaini against those thugs of Stoke City.

 

[Roboc7]

The problem with the diamond is the two up front, it just leaves the midfield and defence too exposed, now Carrick is back I would like to see us go back to the diamond but with Carrick sitting in front of the back four and just one up front. Would play Bind, Di Maria and Herrera in midfield and then take your pick from Mata, Januzaj, Fellaini or Rooney as the number 10 and Falcao, RVP, Rooney or Wilson as the striker.

That for me gets the most out of the players we have and gives us plenty of people playing in their preferred positions, Carrick and Blind are also good enough and intelligent enough to shield the back four and ensure we don’t get caught out defensively. The big problem is it means leaving out a lot of the higher profile players but I think we are at the point now where we have to do that in order to improve our passing and the tempo we play at, on Saturday I thought Fellaini, Rooney, Di Maria and Januzaj all looked uncomfortable and restricted, I see why LVG did it but I don’t think it is the answer for rest of the season.

 

[Ramshock]

does anyone else hate this thread or is it just me?

 

[kouroux]

Rooney drops deep only under instruction.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

does anyone else hate this thread or is it just me?

Not just you.

 

[Ramshock]

Not just you.

You could apply zombie passing to any team in football that doesnt have a high tempo pressing/counter attacking game.

 

[Brophs]

You could apply zombie passing to any team in football that doesnt have a high tempo pressing/counter attacking game.

It's nonsensical, bite-sized, catchphrase analysis. I don't that as a criticism of noods, either. It's the way that people latched on to what was a relatively basic point he made - and one I didn't absolutely disagree with - and tried to apply it to every single fecking problem we have. So now we have people who, after every bad performance, posting stuff like "zombie football is back".

 

[Ramshock]

It's nonsensical, bite-sized, catchphrase analysis. I don't that as a criticism of noods, either. It's the way that people latched on to what was a relatively basic point he made - and one I didn't absolutely disagree with - and tried to apply it to every single fecking problem we have. So now we have people who, after every bad performance, posting stuff like "zombie football is back".

yep exactly

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You could apply zombie passing to any team in football that doesnt have a high tempo pressing/counter attacking game.

You could apply it to every bad performance we've ever had or ever have again in the future.

No doubt people will.

 

[Robbie Boy]

does anyone else hate this thread or is it just me?

The thread was quite apt at the time and the OP made some pretty good points. But since then, as Brophs said, it has become a catchphrase around these parts that is attributed to any bad / mediocre performance.

 

[Mykey]

Think against Arsenal we wont need Fellaini defensively as they are a small side, Herrera could thus come back in.

However maybe we could then use him attacking wise, and have a threat in the air. Thats the problem now, when do you drop him if his main attribute is physicality against bigger (size wise) teams we need him against smaller teams we could use him.

Personally I'd get Herrera back in the fold, enjoy watching him play, Carrick isn't small and can win aerial battles against their midfield.

Fellaini against Arsenal's CB's is something I'd like to see

 

[bosnian_red]

The thread was quite apt at the time and the OP made some pretty good points. But since then, as Brophs said, it has become a catchphrase around these parts that is attributed to any bad / mediocre performance.

Yeah, Fergies last few years and Moyes last season were definitely very slow, static and zombie like if you will. We have plenty of fluidity with van Gaal and everyone is passing it around well enough, its just that against palace the attacks kept breaking down. If there's one thing you can't really criticize about us this season, is the fluidity of our passing in midfield and defence.

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah, Fergies last few years and Moyes last season were definitely very slow, static and zombie like if you will. We have plenty of fluidity with van Gaal and everyone is passing it around well enough, its just that against palace the attacks kept breaking down. If there's one thing you can't really criticize about us this season, is the fluidity of our passing in midfield and defence.

Agree tbh

 

[ivaldo]

So do you think the passing was variable, creative and penetrative enough then?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, Fergies last few years and Moyes last season were definitely very slow, static and zombie like if you will. We have plenty of fluidity with van Gaal and everyone is passing it around well enough, its just that against palace the attacks kept breaking down. If there's one thing you can't really criticize about us this season, is the fluidity of our passing in midfield and defence.

I don't ever remember us passing the ball around as much on the deck between our defenders and our keeper under Fergie or Moyes.

It seems a small thing but that was one of the reasons I felt really pleased about our performance against Palace. It felt as though you were watching the team gradually pick up and implement this (obviously, possession based) "philosophy" we keep hearing about. Loads of example where big Dave and his defenders kept their composure and passed in triangles until Carrick, Rooney or Fellaini became available and we were able to pass the ball out through midfield. Reminds me of the way a team like Swansea or (dare I say it) Barca used to play and a real novelty to see a United team so consistently refuse to hoof the ball out of defence. Then you had the way we pressed so well. Two or three United players closing in on whoever had the ball in the Palace team.

It does look as though I'm in a minority on here but I really enjoy patient, possession football combined with a good team work ethic when it comes to winning the ball back high up the pitch. If that's the blueprint for United under Van Gaal then I'm all for it.

Obviously, we'll need the like of Januzaj, Di Maria and (especially) RvP to up their game considerably to make the most of all this possession but that's just stating the bleeding obvious. All three of them have been very disappointing in our last three games but I don't think that's got anything to do with our overall approach.

 

[2 man midfield]

I really, really love how we don't hoof it out of defence anymore. Rio and Smalling doing this used to have me shouting at the screen. They know their jobs now, as opposed to not really being clear what to do and so lumping it upfield.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I also think we'd make much better use of all this possession if we stuck Rooney up top and gave his place in the team to Mata.

For all that Mata has been a bit ineffective in recent weeks I think Rooney would be a big upgrade on RvP and Mata might look a much better player if he had more movement in front of him.

Probably a discussion for another thread though...

 

[Blue always red]

We will always enter zombie passing mode when teams sit back and give us the ball. We don't have the type of players who can run off the ball into space like City do, yet, and if we do they certainly aren't on the same wavelength yet. I do agree though, Herrera has that engine that will allow him to move about and play dinky one-twos in and around their box. I'm not sure I would drop Fellaini though. No coincidence that we OK in our 2 hardest games of the season whilst he played. Unless I'm blind and he's the new Cleverley who plays no part in a good performance but is the main reason for our bad performance.

 

[2 man midfield]

We will always enter zombie passing mode when teams sit back and give us the ball. We don't have the type of players who can run off the ball into space like City do, yet, and if we do they certainly aren't on the same wavelength yet. I do agree though, Herrera has that engine that will allow him to move about and play dinky one-twos in and around their box. I'm not sure I would drop Fellaini though. No coincidence that we OK in our 2 hardest games of the season whilst he played. Unless I'm blind and he's the new Cleverley who plays no part in a good performance but is the main reason for our bad performance.

I think having a CM who can drive forward and open up space is a huge difference. Di Maria does it too, it makes things happen. Carrick and Scholes sat back, letting the wingers do this. When we had wingers like Ronaldo it was all well and dandy (or when Tony was any good) but over time it became the scenario we're discussing now. I think that's partly why Anderson is often looked at as "what could have been.." He brought this to our play when he was fit and could be arsed.

Herrera and Di Maria adding drive and movement has helped our midfield no end basically.

 

[IwatUwat]

I really, really love how we don't hoof it out of defence anymore. Rio and Smalling doing this used to have me shouting at the screen. They know their jobs now, as opposed to not really being clear what to do and so lumping it upfield.

But then why was Blackett playing so many long diagonal balls when he was in the team, and a few others were doing similar thought that may have been an LVG tactic early doors. Personally think possession is one thing, but any team comes to us and sits behind the ball like Palace did then we'll have those stats! The thing that even LVG says is that we've lost some attacking creativity which isnt great. Our speed in attack is pretty slow at the moment which isnt great to watch at all.

 

[2 man midfield]

But then why was Blackett playing so many long diagonal balls when he was in the team, and a few others were doing similar thought that may have been an LVG tactic early doors. Personally think possession is one thing, but any team comes to us and sits behind the ball like Palace did then we'll have those stats! The thing that even LVG says is that we've lost some attacking creativity which isnt great. Our speed in attack is pretty slow at the moment which isnt great to watch at all.

Maybe taking the easy answer here, but it chimes in with my post above. We started looking shite the minute we moved Di Maria wide and lost Herrera. Coincidence? Who knows. We also shored up a lot in defence but i think it's got something to do with it.

 

[Speak]

It wasn't as extreme as it has been over the last two seasons (especially last year, at times), and it may be an overused/incorrectly used phrase, but I think it applied to the Palace game.

We've lost games this season where I wouldn't say the phrase was appropriate, so it's not just because we didn't play that well or win by a heavy margin.

 

[Blue always red]

It wasn't as extreme as it has been over the last two seasons (especially last year, at times), and it may be an overused/incorrectly used phrase, but I think it applied to the Palace game.

We've lost games this season where I wouldn't say the phrase was appropriate, so it's not just because we didn't play that well or win by a heavy margin.

I honestly believe the problem is still too many players wanting to be the ones that make something happen. Rooney/Mata/Di Maria/Januzaj they all want to be the ones on the ball dictating our attack. We badly need someone like Tevez/Aguero/Silva who can find a little pocket in their box to receive the ball. Currently, everyone's just stood around the edge of the box fannying about. Look at Mata's goal for example. Di Maria and Mata both stood on the edge of the box playing a one-two that was going nowhere if not for the long-range attempt by Mata which came off. I said it before the game, we're still relying on too much individual brilliance to pull us through games.

 

[Blodssvik]

We still see plenty of hoof balls or crosses without apparent target. We were 2nd in the league for long balls and 2nd for crosses before the last game.

 

[The Azzurri]

Why are we returning to this slow static zombie style passing these past few matches?

 

[WR10]

Why are we returning to this slow static zombie style passing these past few matches?

Did you not watch Holland in the world cup? The game against Arsenal was a very tactical approach that didn't require us to have much of the ball. It was a defend, pull and release to Robben (Di Maria) tactic

 

[bosnian_red]

Why are we returning to this slow static zombie style passing these past few matches?

How was this in anyway slow, static zombie football? We've had plenty of movement in every game, we play slow possession football at times (today was anything but that), but it's not static. Against Palace there was plenty of movement and it was quite fluid, was just didn't go gung ho to get goals.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

Did you not watch Holland in the world cup? The game against Arsenal was a very tactical approach that didn't require us to have much of the ball. It was a defend, pull and release to Robben (Di Maria) tactic

This. And as others have said, as bad as we were yesterday, Arsenal away isn't really a game to judge our play on. It should be treated as a single entity as our style was imposed by a set of serious limitations through 40 injuries in 4 months coming to a head.

 

[IwatUwat]

Final third in the first half it was slow and poor. Lacked creativity.

Second half just due to Arsenal's attacking approach we were left with spaces which we just ran and countered into. Im really not sure what was going on first 30 mins. Almost like man to man in defence leaving holes everywhere and going forward awful.

 

[Pronewbie]

I know reviving dead threads is often frowned upon in forums but I'm so glad LVG has got us playing fast fluid football. I could even resurrect the threads about us buckling under high pressure, and the ones about us not pressing enough higher up the pitch.

I don't think we've consistently played like this since Saha got his serious injury in 07(?), and it's a massive credit to LVG that he's instilled that in the players.

 

[Red Ryan]

I thought it perhaps apt to bump this thread given the quality of our current football... There's a certain irony attached.

 

[Scarecrow]

SAF out.

 

[devilish]

It kind of shows that our current problems had been there for a long long time. It just got worse as players grew older (ex Rooney and Carrick), top quality players retired and players who had the talent to be squad players at best ended up getting a more prominent role

 

[Brophs]

Jesus. This shit again.

 

[Varun]

It's not apt at all, ridiculous bump.

 

[Moonred]

Just bump every negative thread over the last few years and if you try a little, you will find resemblance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The funniest bit is the last post before today's bump.

 

[VeevaVee]

Definitely apt. Meekly moving forward then passing sideways until we give it away or have a shot blocked because the entire opposition has been given loads of time to get back. Blaa