Steven Gerrard

Brwned

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I know there's already some debate about it but I thought I'd start a whole new thread on it.

There's the myth going round that Gerrard never plays centre mid any more, or never plays well there, so I decided to look up the stats for this season with the games he played at centre mid, along with the team performance and the possession stats.

54% - Everton(H) – 1-1, average performance from both Gerrard and Liverpool, popped up with a great goal mind.

74% - Bolton(H) – 3-0, great performance(from the team, Gerrard got two assists but was taken off early and was in and out of the game a lot).

67% - West Ham(H) – 0-0, poor performance from both, very wasteful.

52% - West Brom(H) – 3-0, good performance(and 2 assists for Gerrard)

64% - Wigan(H) – 3-2, mixed performance, very open and I think Gerrard should take some blame for that.

60% - Everton(A) – 2-0, good performance from the team, but I personally thought Gerrard went missing a bit.

76% - Stoke(H) – 0-0, very good performance but just lacking the killer touch(and a bit of luck, really)

? - Standard Liege(H) – 1-0, lacklustre performance all round.

62% - Middlesborough(H) – 2-1, average performance by the team but Gerrard was the main player trying to make something happen.

59% - Sunderland(A) – 1-0, what some people would call your typical Gerard game, plenty of last ditch blocks and shots from all round, but poor at doing the simple things right. Obviously this isn’t a typical performance from him, and it might have had something to do with him playing alongside Plessis.

Evidently he plays in centre mid more than people seem to think, but most of them are at home which shows Rafa obviously thinks it’s a risk to play him there at times, which adds to the claims he’s not particularly good positionally.

Personally I think Gerrard had genuinely great games against West Brom and Stoke.

7 wins from 10 does imply that he isn’t a liability in midfield either, although obviously that’s slightly tainted by the fact it’s at home but still, I think it shows the term liability is exaggerating things no doubt.

Gerrard’s a top player, everyone can see that – his shooting, ability to cut through defences with raw pace and power and timing of runs into the box make him a massive threat goals-wise, and I think his set pieces are quite underrated too – quite a few goals have come from his free kicks or corners. His passing, dribbling, shooting and first touch all show his technical ability, which allied with his pace, power and drive makes him a great player all round. And yes, I do think his passing technique is good, he does give it away fairly often but that has more to do with his decision-making in that he looks for the forward pass too much, like Giggs, or even better Anderson I think the technique is there but their style doesn’t complement it.

No, he should give up because he's talking shite. Liverpool have played 200-odd games in the last 4 years - how many has Gerrard played in CM? 10-15% tops.

Well he’s played just under half of his games in the centre this season, 38% of the matches. Last season he played 24 games in the centre – W-13 D-7 L-4 – which is more than half as he played 46 games in total. In 06/07 he played 24 games again – W-15 D-5 L-4 – from a total of 47 games, again just over half. In the 05/06 season he did get moved about more, only playing 17 matches in the middle – W-10 D-5 L-2 – out of a total of 44 matches which is quite a bit lower(39%).

All in all that’s 75 matches in centre mid out of a total of 163 matches including this season, which means he played 46% of his matches there since the start of 2005, i.e. in 3 and a half years.

Should hopefully put the myth that he never plays centre mid to bed.
 
The 50 Worst Things About Modern Football.

43. Statistics

American obsession that is gradually weaving itself into the fabric of our national game. Do you care how many assists Wayne Rooney has this season? Do you care how many passes Steve Gerrard has completed in the final third? Do you care if Gareth Barry’s tackle win ratio has dropped off since Christmas? Thought not. There’s only one stat that matters. The score.
 
To sum up, Gerrrard plays NOT in central midfield more often than he plays in central midfield. And when he does play in central midfield Liverpool put in a mediocre performance, more often than not.

Oh, and Gerrard is very good at football. But not at his best in central midfield.

A reasonable summary of all those stats?
 
I know there's already some debate about it but I thought I'd start a whole new thread on it.

There's the myth going round that Gerrard never plays centre mid any more, or never plays well there, so I decided to look up the stats for this season with the games he played at centre mid, along with the team performance and the possession stats.

54% - Everton(H) – 1-1, average performance from both Gerrard and Liverpool, popped up with a great goal mind.

74% - Bolton(H) – 3-0, great performance(from the team, Gerrard got two assists but was taken off early and was in and out of the game a lot).

67% - West Ham(H) – 0-0, poor performance from both, very wasteful.

52% - West Brom(H) – 3-0, good performance(and 2 assists for Gerrard)

64% - Wigan(H) – 3-2, mixed performance, very open and I think Gerrard should take some blame for that.

60% - Everton(A) – 2-0, good performance from the team, but I personally thought Gerrard went missing a bit.

76% - Stoke(H) – 0-0, very good performance but just lacking the killer touch(and a bit of luck, really)

? - Standard Liege(H) – 1-0, lacklustre performance all round.

62% - Middlesborough(H) – 2-1, average performance by the team but Gerrard was the main player trying to make something happen.

59% - Sunderland(A) – 1-0, what some people would call your typical Gerard game, plenty of last ditch blocks and shots from all round, but poor at doing the simple things right. Obviously this isn’t a typical performance from him, and it might have had something to do with him playing alongside Plessis.

Evidently he plays in centre mid more than people seem to think, but most of them are at home which shows Rafa obviously thinks it’s a risk to play him there at times, which adds to the claims he’s not particularly good positionally.

Personally I think Gerrard had genuinely great games against West Brom and Stoke.

7 wins from 10 does imply that he isn’t a liability in midfield either, although obviously that’s slightly tainted by the fact it’s at home but still, I think it shows the term liability is exaggerating things no doubt.

Gerrard’s a top player, everyone can see that – his shooting, ability to cut through defences with raw pace and power and timing of runs into the box make him a massive threat goals-wise, and I think his set pieces are quite underrated too – quite a few goals have come from his free kicks or corners. His passing*, dribbling, shooting and first touch all show his technical ability, which allied with his pace, power and drive makes him a great player all round.
*Yes, I do think his passing technique is good, he does give it away fairly often but that has more to do with his decision-making in that he looks for the forward pass too much, like Giggs, or even better Anderson I think the technique is there but their style doesn’t complement it.



Well he’s played just under half of his games in the centre this season, which is 38% of the matches. Last season he played 24 games in the centre – W-13 D-7 L-4 – which is more than half as he played 46 games in total. In 06/07 he played 24 games again – W-15 D-5 L-4 – from a total of 47 games, again just over half. In the 05/06 season he did get moved about more, only playing 17 matches in the middle – W-10 D-5 L-2 – out of a total of 44 matches which is quite a bit lower(39%).

All in all that’s 75 matches in centre mid out of a total of 163 matches including this season, which means he played 46% of his matches there since the start of 2005, i.e. in 3 and a half years.

Should hopefully put the myth that he never plays centre mid to bed.


AngusLoughran1_203x150.jpg
 
Well he’s played just under half of his games in the centre this season, which is 38% of the matches.

He's played 10 matches in that role according to you, and they've played 34 games (22 League, 2 CL qual, 6 CL, 2 Carling, 2 FAC) that's 29%
 
54% - Everton(H) – 1-1, average performance from both Gerrard and Liverpool, popped up with a great goal mind.

74% - Bolton(H) – 3-0, great performance(from the team, Gerrard got two assists but was taken off early and was in and out of the game a lot).

67% - West Ham(H) – 0-0, poor performance from both, very wasteful.

52% - West Brom(H) – 3-0, good performance(and 2 assists for Gerrard)

64% - Wigan(H) – 3-2, mixed performance, very open and I think Gerrard should take some blame for that.

60% - Everton(A) – 2-0, good performance from the team, but I personally thought Gerrard went missing a bit.

76% - Stoke(H) – 0-0, very good performance but just lacking the killer touch(and a bit of luck, really)

? - Standard Liege(H) – 1-0, lacklustre performance all round.

62% - Middlesborough(H) – 2-1, average performance by the team but Gerrard was the main player trying to make something happen.

59% - Sunderland(A) – 1-0, what some people would call your typical Gerard game, plenty of last ditch blocks and shots from all round, but poor at doing the simple things right. Obviously this isn’t a typical performance from him, and it might have had something to do with him playing alongside Plessis.

So when he played CM his only good games were against West Brom and Stoke?
 
He's played 10 matches in that role according to you, and they've played 34 games (22 League, 2 CL qual, 6 CL, 2 Carling, 2 FAC) that's 29%

And he's played 26 games, 19 in the league, 5 in the Champions league and 2 in the cup.
 
Nice one, Brwned. To reiterate:


Benitez always plays 4231, he never plays two up. So not only don't you know where your men are playing you don't even know what you're playing. Plan 9 from outer space.

:wenger:
 
So when he played CM his only good games were against West Brom and Stoke?

Well and Bolton and Boro, but yeah basically.

Those two games where he played as a top central midfielder though.

It's far from his best position, but he's also far from a liability there, which was the main point I as making.
 
And he's played 26 games, 19 in the league, 5 in the Champions league and 2 in the cup.

Ah, of course - didn't think of that.

I appreciate the fact that you've gone lengths to prove your point, and it's definitely surprising that he's played that many of the matches in a two-man midfield role.
I do however also agree with Pogue and AF - your summary doesn't do him much good in order to disprove the myth, as Gerrard hardly shined in most of the games mentioned.
 
Ah, of course - didn't think of that.

I appreciate the fact that you've gone lengths to prove your point, and it's definitely surprising that he's played that many of the matches in a two-man midfield role.

I do however also agree with Pogue and AF - your summary doesn't do him much good in order to disprove the myth, as Gerrard didn't really shine in most of the games mentioned.

Seem to be giving across a different point than I was intending to make then.

I wasn't saying he plays great in centre mid, but I was just pointing out that he's not a liability there - myth one - and it's not true he rarely plays there - myth two.
 
To sum up, Gerrrard plays NOT in central midfield more often than he plays in central midfield. And when he does play in central midfield Liverpool put in a mediocre performance, more often than not.

Oh, and Gerrard is very good at football. But not at his best in central midfield.

A reasonable summary of all those stats?

Pretty much spot on as usual.

Although in 06/07 most of Liverpool's best results were with Gerrard in the middle, surprisingly enough. So I think he's generally become worse there as it's went on, and back when Benitez was first there he was still a top centre mid.

Up there with the best in the position he plays in now, IMO.
 
So when he played CM his only good games were against West Brom and Stoke?

I think your first post in this thread is fair.

Yeah, fair play to Brwned for putting the effort in but all those stats do is reinforce the "myth" that Gerrard isn't much cop in central midfield (despite being a talented footballer) and doesn't play in that position much anyway.
 
He's an excellent central midfielder.

If he partnered Alonso in the middle it'd be the best central midfield in the league. Problem is Liverpool only have one other attacking player who isn't shite, and Benitez is a bit of a gimp, so he gets played further up the pitch or out wide to suit Benitez's strange tactics and consistently rubbish signings
 
He's an excellent central midfielder.

If he partnered Alonso in the middle it'd be the best central midfield in the league. Problem is Liverpool only have one other attacking player who isn't shite, so he gets played further up the pitch or out wide.

Maybe on paper.
 
I wasn't saying he plays great in centre mid, but I was just pointing out that he's not a liability there - myth one - and it's not true he rarely plays there - myth two.

But your stats also show that Benitez clearly thinks that Gerrard is indeed a bit of a liability in centre mid, seeing as he's pretty much only played him there at home, as you mentioned, and against teams where Liverpool were expected to have a large percentage of the possession (except for the Everton games)
So it would appear that Rafa doesn't trust Gerrard in centre mid against opponents where Liverpool won't be in possession 2/3 of the game, and that to me speaks volumes of Gerrard's lacking qualities as a centre midfielder, which I believe was the main point from the people arguing in the other thread.

Ps. Did you notice O'Shea did his "ball under/over foot" when trying to stop it-move again? It's soon as famous as the Zidane turn or Ronaldinho flip-flap.
 
But your stats also show that Benitez clearly thinks that Gerrard is indeed a bit of a liability in centre mid, seeing as he's pretty much only played him there at home, as you mentioned, and against teams where Liverpool were expected to have a large percentage of the possession (except for the Everton games)
So it would appear that Rafa doesn't trust Gerrard in centre mid against opponents where Liverpool won't be in possession 2/3 of the game, and that to me speaks volumes of Gerrard's lacking qualities as a centre midfielder, which I believe was the main point from the people arguing in the other thread.

Ps. Did you notice O'Shea did his "ball under/over foot" when trying to stop it-move again? It's soon as famous as the Zidane turn or Ronaldinho flip-flap.

Benitez is over-cautious though, we all know that. If he was a liability, he wouldn't be played there - he might not be as effective there but he's not a liability. They still have a similar win ratio with him in centre mid than with him in other areas of the pitch, which would obviously be tainted by him playing at home around twice as much as he does away, but I think to call him liability is a gross overstatement.

He does lack the positional sense and self-restraint to be a top centre mid, but he's far from a bad one, IMO.

:lol: I did actually, he did it quite a few times recently. Thought of you the moment it happening too.
 
He's an excellent central midfielder.

If he partnered Alonso in the middle it'd be the best central midfield in the league. Problem is Liverpool only have one other attacking player who isn't shite, and Benitez is a bit of a gimp, so he gets played further up the pitch or out wide to suit Benitez's strange tactics and consistently rubbish signings

I'm not going through all of the stats again, but I happened to notice that most of Liverpool's best wins with Gerrard in the middle were alongside Mascherano and, surprisingly, Sissoko, rather than Alonso.

So it seems that partnership's clearly lacking something, because they didn't have all that many great performances together.
 
Did you really just spend the last 4 hours arguing about a scouser?
 
Yeah, fair play to Brwned for putting the effort in but all those stats do is reinforce the "myth" that Gerrard isn't much cop in central midfield (despite being a talented footballer) and doesn't play in that position much anyway.

Well, he plays almost half of his games there, and by not much cop I'm not entirely sure what that means, but he is at the very least a decent centre mid.
 
He's an excellent central midfielder.

If he partnered Alonso in the middle it'd be the best central midfield in the league. Problem is Liverpool only have one other attacking player who isn't shite, and Benitez is a bit of a gimp, so he gets played further up the pitch or out wide to suit Benitez's strange tactics and consistently rubbish signings

:lol:

Great post there.