That's not really true in that part if the Giggs brand, which he has amazingly restored, is to sell himself as the perfect pro who looks after himself and lives a sensible life. When he lifted the SPOTY it was about more than just his sporting accolades, it was to do with his ambassadorial importance to United and the wider game. If you sell yourself in such a way and get caught out for being a fraud I think it does infect all aspects of your life, including United.everything that is wrong with modern society, why don't you get a little more dramatic?
Giggs was a cnut for what he did - but it had nothing to do with United.
Suarez carries out all his scummery on the pitch, and that's without mentioning that racism trumps everything else mentioned.
Suarez bites | "sorry for falling into him and biting him and that"
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
It was an embarrassing episode but I don't go with "dragging through mud". That's just OTT.
I think I understand racism.
I also think that most United fans didn't really care about the crime itself. It was about a scandal between Liverpool and United, it was tribal. The other stuff is what's used to decorate the argument, to lay out your lines of battle.
Essentially, when it comes to football fans there's nothing better than an opponent messing up as it's more ammunition. It's another chance to adopt some shaky high-ground. Genuine long lasting outrage is rare, in my opinion.
Every football fan heard about the whole thing, including those names, through one medium or another. Liverpool were a laughing stock throughout the land with the whole t-shirt campaign. And you think it was only people on the internet who took the piss? You must be kidding.
If Utd had come out with some kind of t-shirt stunt for Cantona after his kick, or Keane after his tackle on Haaland then our name would have been dragged through the mud as well. But the club didn't. We actually banned Cantona ourselves. Something you could have learnt from.
Liverpool and their fans embarrassed themselves during the Evra case. All for a player who can't wait to get out of your club and join Barca.
Fair enough if you think that most United fans don't care. It is your opinion that can't be verified. I know how much I care and can't really speak for others but I won't go around making assumptions that they don't care. It is usually a way to dismiss people's wrongdoings when you assume that no one cares about what they did.
I disagree. I don't think the damage was really particularly significant. The news agenda is far too fast moving for such damage to take hold.
Just based on how i view fans of all teams in how they exploit a wrongdoing and run with it with much glee.
If everyone used the Suarez excuse:
Zidane: "I fell into Materazzi"
Cantona: "I slipped into a fan"
Giggs & Terry: "I fell into your wife"
Zidane: "I fell into Materazzi"
Cantona: "I slipped into a fan"
Giggs & Terry: "I fell into your wife"
Poor Gerrard, he really did slip.
Fair enough if you don't think so. But I know all my non-United supporting mates (and therefore not bias) will always remember the Suarez-Evra case and how shitty it was handled by Liverpool and it's supporters. Not that you or other pool fans give a shit what opposition fans think of you. I'm just saying Suarez has done damage to the club in that regard.
Gerrard and Giggs just dragged their own names through the mud with what they did off the pitch.
No comparison whatsoever.
That wasn't my point and you know it.
But lets not go down that road since Gerrard has done some pretty disgusting things himself when it comes to shagging around.
Source?
His mistress' vagina
Type it into google and have a look. I'm not getting into the private shit that footballers get up to. I was trying to explain about Suarez.
your mum.
So your point is Suarez didn't drag Liverpool's name through the mud. They did it themselves. Spot on.
Just because you lot can overlook racist abuse if it comes from a vital & talented player of yours, don't try to class us as the same just to support your so-called argument.
Let's be honest, Utd, Fergie, Evra himself, went about the whole saga with a quiet dignity. Liverpool on the other hand...
Suarez put them in a awkward position and they handled it terribly.
Edit: just remembered Evra celebrating in front of Suarez when we beat them so perhaps not him
But certainly Utd and Ferguson.When a Liverpool fan says that United fans didn't care about the crime itself, what they mean is they themselves didn't care about the crime itself.
Racism apologists.
Racism apologists.
No idea what your response relates to. I'm just pointing out that everyone seems to establish the difference between Suarez dragging Liverpool through the mud and out players not doing the same with the club isn't about what the players do but how the club reacts to it. So the problem is ultimately Liverpool, not Suarez.Let's be honest, Utd, Fergie, Evra himself, went about the whole saga with a quiet dignity. Liverpool on the other hand...
Suarez put them in a awkward position and they handled it terribly.
Edit: just remembered Evra celebrating in front of Suarez when we beat them so perhaps not him
the difference is that United hasn´t had a player that is as unfair as Suarez for at least 30 years.
Exactly. That's a reflection on Liverpool rather than Suarez. Had Gerrard gone on to do what Suarez did, they would have done the same thing. Unlike United who banned Cantona, Suarez probably is still being backed by the Liverpool board. The T-shirts and the KKK and official moral support from the clubs are what represent Liverpool as a club and not the activities of Suarez as such. Had they gone on the offensive against him, the club would have maintained the dignity easily like United have done over the years. So while people claim Suarez has tarnished club's reputation, it was Liverpool themselves who were responsible for the action. They had a chance to come out of all his activities with their reputation even stronger but they blew it.
And when that matter broke, how was he being referenced? Manchester united winger/legend. Giggs is synonymous with our club. I dont see how suarez has dragged his club/country through mud but giggs actions havent had the same impact.
Cuadrado - Messi - Neymar
Suarez
Suarez
Suarez has learnt well from his captain on the art of slipping. He couldn't have came up with such excuse the last two times.
Poor old Gerrard! Even his teammate is taking a piss on him.
Poor old Gerrard! Even his teammate is taking a piss on him.
Good point.
You might be right that some fans think that way, but I'd like to think I'm one of a majority that surely would be happy to see a racist booted out of our club. I wouldn't tolerate ignorant, du mbfu cks like that. Cultural bullshit. Racists are just mentally disordered and should never be tolerated, no matter how talented they are as a player.
Totally agree! Even if it happened to be a cultural thing one should not act totally ignorant/arrogant about it. Racism is an even bigger scourge than that of diving/dirty tricks, fortunatly we dont see it THAT often, but i agree.
Football is not only about big money, throphies and entertainment. With its massive influence on children and adults alike, footballers need to set an example worth following. Not become sissies, sure, but when you make a mistake you should accept your mistake and be humble about it, become a better person. And the clubs/federations need to show that this sport is heading towards a more fair and just direction, not defend a player just because he is the best in the world (or whatever). Things dosn't work out like that in the "real world" so it shouldn't at the pitch either.
If you genuinely can't see the difference between the two situations then there's little point discussing it further.
What happens off the pitch doesn't affect the club. What happens on the pitch does affect the club. It's a simple concept which needs no explanation.
What Suarez has done with the racial abuses and biting have directly affected his club aswell.
Also PickledRed's post about Suarez highlights what's wrong with the Liverpool fans.
Yeah it's a good point.No idea what your response relates to. I'm just pointing out that everyone seems to establish the difference between Suarez dragging Liverpool through the mud and out players not doing the same with the club isn't about what the players do but how the club reacts to it. So the problem is ultimately Liverpool, not Suarez.
Yep, agreed.
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How incredibly ignorant.
how has pickledred had a mare? everyone knows it's not racist if you like the person who's been racist.
That's racist.
Other than liverpool missing suarez from him being banned, how does it directly affect them? The whole t-shirt stunt was on liverpool, you cant blame suarez for that. If you think it damages their image in the media, than it doest matter if the events happen on the pitch or off it.
Please explain it then.
"Other than the main reason why it affects them, how does it affect them?"
The discussion is him dragging their name through the mud, him missing game while it affects their performance doesnt harm their image."Other than the main reason why it affects them, how does it affect them?"
Really? I suspect certain sponsors might disagree with you.