Losing to Olympiakos I think will have him sacked on the spot.
Support David Moyes thread
- Thread starter Danny_
- Start date
May I ask you why you think so? Is there anything to suggest that?
I hate to say that, but a lot of people who have been against him for some time now (including me) were saying that Moyes wil drop Januzaj in favour of Mata and continue playing with one of Valencia/Young. And that the tactics won't change a bit with Mata's arrival. Today not that the tactics didn't improve, but they were far worse than in any other match, and who knows, maybe we even broke a world record for the number of crosses. Why people think that Moyes will suddenly decide to not play so-called stone age football which he has done for at-least since he became the manager of Everton is beyond me. Wishful thinking or perhaps people are seeing something that I am not capable to see?
Don't think so. Sadly.
He intends to play quick football with plenty of crosses, we pretty much know this. This is David Moyes football.
Only from the TV money if I am not mistaken. There is also the money that comes from the tickets which makes not qualifying for UCL even worse on financial terms.
theres noway fergie thought it would be this bad when he said that
Even if I thought he was the worst manager in the world, I'd give him an opportunity, and any less than 24 months isn't a fair opportunity.
Because he didn't play stone-age ball at Everton, contrary to what people seem to think. He set up negatively too much against the top sides - that is a valid criticism in my book and he obviously can't employ the same sort of tactics as United manager. But to me he has always been a pragmatic manager more than an outright negative one. He set up according to the players available to him - and according to the opposition. At United he will have to keep doing the former - and get used to doing the latter do a lesser extent. Do I know for a fact that he will be able to do this? No. Do I believe he realizes it's necessary to be more adventurous, less cautious as a United manager. Yes, I do. He knows what's expected of him - and this is clearly not to have Manchester United become a blueprint of an Everton side that were never serious challengers.
His Everton team played good football last season in particular. fecking miles better than we're currently producing. That's why I think there's a bit of a grey area at the moment between him not being able to play good football and the players just not performing. It's impossible to say exactly what is going wrong.
All I know is that he's not a bum when it comes to management and there's no way on earth that he endorses some of the individual decisions that the players are making at the moment, which are proving costly.
Every match he's in charge of us, you can tell he's increasingly out of depth
I think the Glazers should have some minimal expectations in his contract. They are not stupid. 15 points off the pace come Feb, out of all cups, surely there just can't be worse imaginable. They will cut the loses at some point. Can't imagine giving him more money especially after 30m blown on Fellaini...
Well thought out post. Enjoyed reading and an interesting hypothesis. SAF and others certainly said alot about 'continuity' at the time of Moyes appointment. Maybe we will read about it very soo in Rio's or Vidic upcoming autobiographies!
So even if it gets worse, we should wait 2 years before we say enough is enough even though it looks like he's failing on every level?
That bad eh? Did you post this lying on a couch?
If recent footballing history (last few decades) has taught us anything, it's that sacking the manager every 6 or 12 months is a sure-fire formula for mediocrity.
City-Fans, Scousers and t0p reds. The Moysey Army or as I call them: The axis of evil.
I'm still very confused with where I stand on Moyes, I do genuinely want to support him and of course I do want him to succeed here, but he's making it very hard. I guess many are asking themselves the same questions: Would this have happened no matter who took over? Is this inevitable? I think there would obviously have been some drop in performance levels, but to this extent? I genuinely don't know, nobody does. However, what I can comment on is today's performance, which did show Moyes up tactically. A few seem intent on blaming the players but I think they followed their instructions quite well today, we got the ball wide and played at quite a good tempo, we even managed a record amount of crosses, but all this just makes it worse. We made 82 crosses today and created very little, it just shows how outdated and ineffective this style is. Even the two goals we scored had an element of luck about them, just putting the ball into the box is such a waste of our undoubted attacking talent, and if I was the opposition coming to Old Trafford I'd be delighted at the way we use Mata, Rooney and RVP. I can't believe this is the way he wants to play, he signed Mata and wanted Fabregas, surely he has something else in mind, but all the evidence on the pitch not, and his fascination with 4-4-2 is bizarre, I thought he was quite flexible at Everton. It's all very confusing really. Will he be sacked? Definitely not. Should he be sacked? No, it's too soon. But could he honestly have any complaints if he was sacked? In my opinion I don't think he could.
errm, so i take it you are not happy then?
our football is s*it and attitude and mentality of the players is poor. i wouldnt give a f*ck about the results
theres 100s of people on here who support Moyes, ive been asking for months for one positive thing about him and ive yet to see a good reason, apart from "fergie said" or just for the sake of it..
Bayern Munich disagrees. 7 coaches in the past 7 years.
To be fair you could put Sam Alladyce in charge of Bayern and they'll still finish in the top 2.
Yeah Chelsea really has struggled, winning almost as many trophies as we did in that time. You don't sack a manager after 3 or 4 months, sure. But after over 7 months of absolute crap, with the performances getting worse, everything already lost this season, that is when somebody gets sacked. If at least he showed signs to an improved style of play, but he's going further and further towards long balls. You sack a manager before he makes things irreversible to an extent. Giving him 2 or 3 years won't change his mind set on what the right style of football is. Time doesn't equal success, not by a long shot.
To be fair people thought similarly about us. I don't think it's possible for somebody to do much worse then what Moyes did. Only if he didn't make it through the group stages. About all he did that is positive.
Rio's will be interesting. Might borrow it from the library, that's if libraries still exist in the UK 12 months from now.
Thanks for the good reply. I wouldn't completely agree for the tactics at Everton, maybe I am a bit biased when it coems to it but they were one of the teams I disliked most watching. I respected them as a team, and I think that Moyes did good there (excellent on the first 5 years) but I didn't liked how they played. They weren't Stoke but neither a team who plays well. He was completely awful on the most important matches though, something that you are agreeing.
My worry is why he hasn't changed nothing this season. He doesn't have anything to lose. We are dropping points in every game, playing some of the direst football I have seen a team playing. Why can't he change the style even if it is for a single game? If he was a pragmatic manager, then he should have at-least proved some other tactics and an another formation (or two). Who knows, maybe it would have worked. Until now, all we have seen is that if crosses don't work then you should try more crosses. And if it doesn't work again, then try even more crossing. It has come to the point that it is clear that it won't work and every team is finding it easy to defend against. So why it is not changing a bit? For the fear of losing? We are already doing it. I never rated him that much, but now I have started seriously disliking him for not trying something different than something which has proven to be a disaster. Maybe we don't have the right players to play a better system, but this is neither working and our wingers are a bit shit.
I may agree about last year (mainly because I haven't watched them - or football in general except United - in this and last year as much as before) but on other years Everton was one of the worst teams to watch IMO. If I had to choose the most boring teams in EPL then likely Everton would have always been on my top 5 choices. Just my opinion though and I may easily be wrong.
The individual errors I think are part of something bigger. Individual errors, brainfarts from players, luck and other stuff happens at times. But if they happen on a consistent basis then I think is something bigger than that.
There is no chance you finish in the bottom half. The worst I think you'll finish is 7th.
I don't think so, certainly not for this season anyway, the PL is much more competitive than the German league.
Surely United are now the prime example for this kind of theory being absolutely false?
they don't need a coach,they just sign the best player of their main rivals,every year
They finished 5th not too long ago.
I hope he can turn it around and we can rebuild in the summer. People who want him sacked seem to think SAF will magically come back into management and that will not happen.
I want him sacked and Giggs to replace him on an interim basis. Nobody thinking logically sees Ferguson coming out of retirement.
Bayern managers since 07:
Hitzfeld, Klinsmann, Heynckes x2, Jonker, Van Gaal, Pep
3 titles, 3 domestic cups, 1 CL.
Barcelona managers since 07:
Tito, Rijkaard, Pep, Martino
4 titles, 2 domestic cups, 2CL
Juventus managers since 07:
Ranieri, Conte, Zaccheroni, Delneri, Ferrara.
Most probably 3 Seria A in a row.
Mediocrity.
Actually Chelsea did pretty well with that. Mockney was spot on on that in an another debate. You can argue that a good manager for a club is better than replacing him with several equally good managers, but the sentence 'sacking the manager every 6-12 months is a sure-fire formula mediocricity' is completely wrong. Chelsea and Madrid who do that in a consistent basis are actually fine. Chelsea in particular has been the third most succesful club in Europe during the last 10 years. Bayern and Juventus do it on a consistent basis too and both of them are doing excellently. To a lesser extent comes Barca, which again has done fine with that strategy. Basically any club except United and Shakhtar Donetsk does it, and many of those clubs do well.
Anyway, I think that going into these kind of generalizations is not good. Chelsea usually sacked managers for finishing second and not winning UCL (Ancelotti and Mourinho), while Real was even worse. They sacked Del Bosque for not winning the UCL despite he won the league, while they sacked Capello (two times) for not being entertaining despite he won the league both times. You can't make parallelizations there with the Moyes situations. Some of the better parallelizations (though not entirely accurate) would be Klinsman at Bayern, Scolari at Chelsea (though they didn't won the league in the previous years but you can argue that their team was better than this United team) and Benitez at Inter. At that time, I thought that all those sackings were right decisions. Chelsea saved their season by replacing Scolari with Hiddink and then finished second and were a good referee away from eleminating Barca. Bayern did well too (though it was a bit too late to save the season) but they won the league next season with an another manager. Only Inter didn't improve, likely because they replaced Benitez with worse managers than him. Replacing Moyes isn't a recipe for disaster. If we replace him with Heyckness, Bielsa, Hiddink (likely the best three avilable managers right now, in the summer Van Gaal likely will be the best choice) it is almost guaranteed that we will be in a better position. Replacing him with Allardyce or Pullis will likely make us even worse and in that case I would prefer to keep Moyes.
How many trophies Chelsea win? Second highest amount behind us in the last 10 years.
Tell that to Klinsmann.
Nope I want him out because he has shown he simply isnt good enough. Interim manager is fine till the summer
In the year they were managed by Klinsman. It isn't difficult to see why.
I'd actually prefer Pulis over Moyes. They both employ the same tactics but Pulis seems to get much more out of his players. (Of course I'm not in anyway suggesting that Tony feckin Pulis is the answer to our worries)
He plays through the centre more too.