Aye, didn't expect that I'd have to stick up for his defensive side of the game (I.e against speedy players) whilst seeing the 'creative side' of his game being lauded
.Surveillance Draft - R1- DavidG vs Joga Bonito
- Thread starter antohan
- Start date
.To be fair you've probably never seen peak Arshavin apart from the few Euro games and a couple of games for Arsenal (including a poker at Anfield). He was magnificent at his peak, which was mostly for Zenit, and I kinda despise the guy, so it's not like you're hearing this from his fanboy
Isn't Conte arrested for assault?
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Yeah, it's fair to say I heard the hype while at Zenit but largely watched him at Arsenal
He was kind of like that daft wine commercial with Rooney. Arshavin, I mean. They say...and so forth. When we finally saw him properly he was basically over the hill (at, what, 27...something like that). Looked great, though, at first glance.
Odd player, odd sort of career. He was injured quite alot, though, wasn't he? Prior to breaking through (for the average fan), I mean.
Odd player, odd sort of career. He was injured quite alot, though, wasn't he? Prior to breaking through (for the average fan), I mean.
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I appreciate the willingness of @DavidG to be innovative: risk taking and 'new players' like Mostovoi.
I've forgotten to analyze that Celta Vigo team with players like Karpin
@Joga Bonito has probably built the most impressive midfield so far.
I've forgotten to analyze that Celta Vigo team with players like Karpin
@Joga Bonito has probably built the most impressive midfield so far.
The main problem was always mentality. After the Euros and his transfer to England he thought that he already achieved everything. Wenger didn't help though, limiting his role to a left winger, and injuries were also a factor... but still, mentality.
If anything I'd remember him for those weird, and at times funny Q&A sections.
Shame he never quite got going after the Euros, closest thing to Kaka after the Brazilian's dip. Was quite the exciting player at his peak, but unfortunately we didn't really get to see a whole lot of that.
Cheers.
Yeah, Creative is probably the wrong word here. I was on about ability to control the pace and tempo of a game. I rate his passing skills also as above average for a classic DM. If you look at the team as a 4-2-3-1 with Nedved-Moller-Seedorf ahead of the duo, it'll work...but as a straight 4-4-2 not very much so.We must have watched a different Deschamps. I found him boring and crab-like on the ball, but he was masterful at suffocating the opposition's creative players. He's an excellent foil for Xavi here.
It's a brilliant midfield, alright. With one of the greatest orchestrators in football history pulling the strings, having an almost ideal foil sitting behind him in the dirty work role (EAP's bizarre praise notwithstanding) - and a scary pair of wide midfielders on either side to complete it. And Möller as an AM/SS roaming about.
Hard to beat. Upper half clearly more impressive than lower, though.
I have a fondness for David's team, if one can put it like that. But I don't like the zona mista blueprint - it seems a bit forced to me. Play those boys in an unorthodox formation, something like an Italian job - great. But don't insist to that extent on the blueprint thing. This ain't a remake draft.
Hard to beat. Upper half clearly more impressive than lower, though.
I have a fondness for David's team, if one can put it like that. But I don't like the zona mista blueprint - it seems a bit forced to me. Play those boys in an unorthodox formation, something like an Italian job - great. But don't insist to that extent on the blueprint thing. This ain't a remake draft.
Precisely, it isn't a 'straight'/conventional 4-4-2 where I'd need a more expansive passer. It's more fluid with Seedorf and Nedved cutting in, exchanging positions, Möller/RVP roaming and dropping deep occasionally etc. It isn't a compartmentalized and an orthodox 4-4-2 with the wingers working the flanks and the two forwards being more goal oriented and direct in their movement and play. Deschamps as a disciplined tidy short passer capable of keeping the ball rolling and rarely losing it is ideal for me, I don't need a Pirlo or an Albertini (speaking of whom, how wasn't he picked in this draft?) there alongside Xavi.
Interesting match up this. Other than Ronaldo, it's a much more tactical battle than a pacey game for individual flair.
I think Jogas side will use the ball much better and control large portions of the game. Also, even though I appreciate what DavidG is trying to do, I'm not at all convinced by that defence.
The big question is whether or not controlling the match, owning the ball for large periods and having a really cohesive system with a simply beautiful midfield, will be enough to beat the 2 or 3 inevitable pieces of brilliance their front two create.
The idea of Bergkamp and Ronaldo together is literally that delicious that it's making what should be an easy decision very difficult. I'm waiting to see if there are any injuries.
I think Jogas side will use the ball much better and control large portions of the game. Also, even though I appreciate what DavidG is trying to do, I'm not at all convinced by that defence.
The big question is whether or not controlling the match, owning the ball for large periods and having a really cohesive system with a simply beautiful midfield, will be enough to beat the 2 or 3 inevitable pieces of brilliance their front two create.
The idea of Bergkamp and Ronaldo together is literally that delicious that it's making what should be an easy decision very difficult. I'm waiting to see if there are any injuries.
I don't want to put words in Joga's mouth regarding his tactics, but it seems to me like an Atletico-esque 4-4-2, with that industrious line of Nedved/Deschamps/Xavi/Seedorf defending as a block and Moller, to a less effective extent, mirroring Griezmann's defensive function of pressing ahead of them. The 4-4-2 better captures Xavi's style of shuttling up and down the pitch too, rather than mostly holding in a 4-2-3-1. I don't really see any benefit at all in tweaking the setup to a 4-2-3-1 tbh.
CHANGE FORTHCOMING
Changed it up, not sure if allowed but no answer in the PM's
I'd say that it looks better
Agreed.
the midfield battle is very one sided imo in Jogas favour - it is arguably in the top two midfield's in the draft purely because it has to be taken as a quartet due to the role that Nedved and Seedorf enjoy here.
It is such a world class quartet - love how they complement each other here and for me.. Both Neved and Seedorf would not be limited in this set up.
Lucio and Carvalho for me is a top class modern day center back pairing which is CL win worthy and both are highly respected by me.. Always rated Ricky highly and Lucio for me is a big beast who when in the mood is a colossus .. Sort of guy who can match Ronaldo for physicality.
Grosso I don't rate too highly but he's not up against a top winger here and I don't know anything about Bennarivo so would appreciate some more info there.
Moller good player as is Van Persie but both pale in significance compared to Davids duo and Joga would probably admit it's the weakest part of his side and probably one of the weaker pairings in the draft. Godin would be able to handle them but would Escobar is the question.
I think on paper it looks an easy win for Joga but in reality it would be closer purely because of the Ronaldo factor.. He really can make even an average side look dangerous because he's not reliant on service like a Messi.
It is such a world class quartet - love how they complement each other here and for me.. Both Neved and Seedorf would not be limited in this set up.
Lucio and Carvalho for me is a top class modern day center back pairing which is CL win worthy and both are highly respected by me.. Always rated Ricky highly and Lucio for me is a big beast who when in the mood is a colossus .. Sort of guy who can match Ronaldo for physicality.
Grosso I don't rate too highly but he's not up against a top winger here and I don't know anything about Bennarivo so would appreciate some more info there.
Moller good player as is Van Persie but both pale in significance compared to Davids duo and Joga would probably admit it's the weakest part of his side and probably one of the weaker pairings in the draft. Godin would be able to handle them but would Escobar is the question.
I think on paper it looks an easy win for Joga but in reality it would be closer purely because of the Ronaldo factor.. He really can make even an average side look dangerous because he's not reliant on service like a Messi.
I was expecting a diamond. Albelda at the bottom, Conte on left, Saliwatisname on right with Mostovoi on top.
On paper an easy win? Have to disagree, Albelda and conte are no pushovers, mostovoi and Salihamidzic offer enough going both ways and and Xavi and deschamps aren't the quickest, especially dealing with nimble footed players like mostovoi.
30 mins formation change for David G.
@DavidG Sorry for the none response. I've just finished driving for the past 3+hrs
No worries, throw a few injuries my way too so I can change it up some more
NO INJURIES BUT 3 SUBS COMING ON TO TRY AND TURN THIS AROUND
Escobar....well, the least said the better.
Salihamidzic has gone chasing the kitman down the tunnel for realising his name was spelt wrong AGAIN and Mostovoi was summoned to an urgent meeting in the kremlin. The best defender of all time in terms of not having to train, ever, ledley King steps in for the stricken colombian (RIP) and Veron deputises for Mostovoi, with Mario Jardel FINALLY getting the stage his prodigious goalscoring talents deserve.
@Raees @Mani @Thisistheone @harms @Edgar Allan Pillow @VivaJanuzaj @Šjor Bepo @Aldo @Fergus' son @Theon @Isotope @Skizzo @Annahnomoss @predator @2mufc0 @Tuppet @Downcast
@green_smiley @prath92 @cold-zebra @sajeev
feel free to change your mind if you think the changes can claw the game back.
Escobar....well, the least said the better.
Salihamidzic has gone chasing the kitman down the tunnel for realising his name was spelt wrong AGAIN and Mostovoi was summoned to an urgent meeting in the kremlin. The best defender of all time in terms of not having to train, ever, ledley King steps in for the stricken colombian (RIP) and Veron deputises for Mostovoi, with Mario Jardel FINALLY getting the stage his prodigious goalscoring talents deserve.
@Raees @Mani @Thisistheone @harms @Edgar Allan Pillow @VivaJanuzaj @Šjor Bepo @Aldo @Fergus' son @Theon @Isotope @Skizzo @Annahnomoss @predator @2mufc0 @Tuppet @Downcast
@green_smiley @prath92 @cold-zebra @sajeev
feel free to change your mind if you think the changes can claw the game back.
Im just catching up and a bit confused at the last formation change. I thought I was caught up to the match and all set to vote for DavidG with that 442 but now I see this new formation and not sure if injuries happened?
Feels so wrong voting against ronaldo but a midfield 3 with Veron in it would get ruined
No injuries I just wanted to get all the players their appearance bonus
Nonsense, at any level
Not really he offers zero protection so you'd be left with 2 midfielders leaving nedved seedorf and xavi oodles of room, in my opinion.
On the ball he is class
"Zero"... so he's just going to stand there is he? I didn't start him because he doesnt get any love at all on this forum and i can handle criticism of him but thinking he'd be completely ineffectively defensively in a midfield 3 is scandalous, particularly when its his peak lazio days we are considering.
He is actually rated quite high in our little draft community. And he is your best midfielder anyway.
He could bring the game to a standstill. Incredibly boring, and effective.We must have watched a different Deschamps
Great job by both managers here so far.
you are a United fan right?
the french carrick
I talked about Albertini with @The Stain but he had forgotten that mini-stint at Barca, which ruled him out.
Carrick is far mote dynamic. Yes, Carrick and dynamic in the same sentence. Get the picture?
Yes, like most of us here. His stint with us wasn't great but we all know his real level (and he showed it at times even for United)