Tactics on Saturday | Most interesting tactical battle in years? | Great past Utd tactical victories

[Annihilate Now!]

One reason - possibly the main reason - I'm looking forward to Sunday's clash at Stamford Bridge is the head-to-head between LVG and Mourinho.

I think Jose will be relishing this one, much like he relished the game against Liverpool at Anfield last season. We're the leagues biggest story in terms of form and style at the moment, and he's going to give it everything to show that there's no system that beats him. So to that end, how will Chelsea combat us? There's been talk of Zouma coming into midfield, but I'm not sure he's good enough in that role to combat Fellaini... also, how defensive is Mourinho actually prepared to go at home?

On top of all that, how are we going to come at them? I can see all our playing shifting to the right-hand side this time, with LVG maybe second guessing Mourinho shutting down our left-side of the pitch. Also, do we make a plan for Hazard?

And as a general note, what are other times we had fascinating tactical match-ups. As a tactition, Fergie was underrated in my opinion, and certain games in Europe spring to mind... so what are the ones you remember most fondly?

 

[Eriku]

Inter Milan away, 08-09. We pegged them back for the first 20 mins or so in a way I've never seen us do in the knock-out stages, and Fletcher was our main contributor to that.

 

[bishblaize]

One reason - possibly the main reason - I'm looking forward to Sunday's clash at Stamford Bridge is the head-to-head between LVG and Mourinho.

I think Jose will be relishing this one, much like he relished the game against Liverpool at Anfield last season. We're the leagues biggest story in terms of form and style at the moment, and he's going to give it everything to show that there's no system that beats him. So to that end, how will Chelsea combat us? There's been talk of Zouma coming into midfield, but I'm not sure he's good enough in that role to combat Fellaini... also, how defensive is Mourinho actually prepared to go at home?

On top of all that, how are we going to come at them? I can see all our playing shifting to the right-hand side this time, with LVG maybe second guessing Mourinho shutting down our left-side of the pitch. Also, do we make a plan for Hazard?

And as a general note, what are other times we had fascinating tactical match-ups. As a tactition, Fergie was underrated in my opinion, and certain games in Europe spring to mind... so what are the ones you remember most fondly?

I'm pretty sure he'll play Oscar at number 10 and get him to man mark Carrick. Oscar's really good at that kind of thing and we saw how difficult it makes it on Sunday in the first 15 minutes when Milner did a decent job.

 

[JmRssll555]

The away game against Inter certainly sticks in my memory as a brilliant tactical display. Both legs against AC Milan in 2010 were superb as well.

As far as the game against Chelsea goes, I think a lot hinges on whether Carrick will be fit enough to play. Without him, I think we'll struggle to dominate the ball and the lack of possession will mean we need to play in a different way. If Carrick doesn't make it, then I think Chelsea will beat us by a goal. If he is fit enough to play, we'll get a draw, I think.

 

[Varun]

I think it will be Willian who will man mark Carrick while Ramires plays on the right to support Ivanovic.

We'l need our right hand side to work well, Ivanovic is more than a match for Fellaini.

 

[Bloxy]

I think Mourinho will have a plan for Fellani and Carrick,by man-marking them, and start with Drogba to abuse our CB's, and Hazard given a free role in order to brake up our shape. I dont think he's worry to much about Herrera and Mata as they will suffer in a physical battle.

 

[The Stain]

Costa is injured and Remy doubtful. If they are going to park the bus, they're not going to counter with Drogba. Has Hazard ever played striker? Remy will probably play..

What would be interesting is to know more in depth how Mourinho set up his Real team against Barca's tiki-taka. We have some decent possession football going now so..

Isn't there a tactics thread? (would be nice)

 

[steeeb]

We play on Saturday, not Sunday.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm pretty sure he'll play Oscar at number 10 and get him to man mark Carrick. Oscar's really good at that kind of thing and we saw how difficult it makes it on Sunday in the first 15 minutes when Milner did a decent job.

I think it will be Willian who will man mark Carrick while Ramires plays on the right to support Ivanovic.

We'l need our right hand side to work well, Ivanovic is more than a match for Fellaini.

Yeah I also have a feeling it'll be Willian... I think Mourinho trusts him a bit more than Oscar, and he has a bit more physicality about him. I've not seen much of as Oscar as a man-marker to be fair (what makes you say he's really good @bishblaize ?), but I would be quite confident in Carrick having the nous to steal yards and space off him.

Inter Milan away, 08-09. We pegged them back for the first 20 mins or so in a way I've never seen us do in the knock-out stages, and Fletcher was our main contributor to that.

Rejog my memory?

 

[LeChuck]

The latter years against Arsenal under SAF were fantastic. The CL tie in 08/09 is a particular highlight. They didn't know what hit them.

Also, the CL tie against Chelsea in 10/11, is another.

 

[bishblaize]

Yeah I also have a feeling it'll be Willian... I think Mourinho trusts him a bit more than Oscar, and he has a bit more physicality about him. I've not seen much of as Oscar as a man-marker to be fair (what makes you say he's really good @bishblaize ?), but I would be quite confident in Carrick having the nous to steal yards and space off him.

I didnt mean he was good at specifically man marking, which is a rare thing these days*, rather doing that kind of thing ie pressing, harrying, intercepting, tackling. Its no secret that he peferred Oscar over Mata in part because Oscar is so hard working and presses really well. I found this link from a Chelsea blog after a good performance by him vs Swansea. It makes a lot of how effective Oscar's pressing game was.

Willian may be as good at the tackling, but then you've got a winger in a central position.

*As an aside, when I was a kid every other game seemed to feature someone man-marking the opposition's star player. You dont seem to hear that anymore.

 

[legball]

It might turn out to be a boring game, and that's what Mourinho will play for, knowing him. He'll not want to be outclassed, so, he'll prepare his team very well, he'll have a man on Fellaini etc. It will be a chess game, it could go either way this one.

 

[Trigg]

One thing is for certain, Mourinho isn't scared to set up his team to nullify the opposition. I think we'll have our work cut out against Chelsea this weekend.

 

[Will Singh]

The fear factor is back for teams playing us which is like having a extra player on the pitch, Chelsea will be worrying about stopping us instead of thinking how to beat us!

If we stick to our game plan then we could take 3 points but right now I'd take a draw!

 

[Eriku]

Rejog my memory?

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsle...eport/index.html#brilliant+cesar+keeps+united

Yes, it ended 0-0, but to go to the San Siro, against an Inter side with Mourinho at the helm and who had Ibra, Adriano back when he was in form, Cambiasso, Maicon, Stankovic, and captained by Zanetti, it was really surprising to see us take charge right from the off.

I recall at the time thinking it was rare that we looked this dominant away from home in general, let alone in the knock-out stages at San Siro.

 

[Trizy]

I think tactics won't be the talking point if Carrick isn't playing.

 

[kps88]

We play on Saturday, not Sunday.

Yeah. Thought this thread was about the City game for a second.

 

[Maagge]

It's certainly interesting and I've been thinking about this as well. It would have been even more interesting though had we played Chelsea at a time where they would have to win. I reckon Mourinho is pretty happy with a draw, as am I to be fair.
I could see him set out really compact and waiting to counter us. And only start pressing us when we enter their half.
If they have neither Remy or Costa fit they have to play Drogba, he's a good target man but they will need pace down the sides. So Willian (I don't fancy Blind against him but we'll see) and Hazard on either side seems likely. I wouldn't be too surprised if he puts Ramires on Carrick provided he's fit. Then the two behind Ramires will be Matic and Fabregas with Matic in Fellaini's side backed up by one of the CBs or Ivanovic coming in from the right.
If Carrick isn't playing I reckon he'll just switch Ramires and Fabregas around to get Fabregas closer to the goal.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

One thing is for certain, Mourinho isn't scared to set up his team to nullify the opposition. I think we'll have our work cut out against Chelsea this weekend.

Why would he be scared to do that? You need bravery to set your team up in a bold manner.

Mourinho's tactical genius is so incredibly overrated. He's a defence minded manager. Tony Pulis sets his team's up defensively and doesn't get labelled a mastermind or something. Mourinho is great at instilling discipline, and belief, that's for me what makes him a top manager. But he's hardly some innovative tactcial genius as many seem to think. Spoiling is easier than creating.

 

[Varun]

The fear factor is back for teams playing us which is like having a extra player on the pitch, Chelsea will be worrying about stopping us instead of thinking how to beat us!

If we stick to our game plan then we could take 3 points but right now I'd take a draw!

Why'd you take a draw? We're in much better form than them at the moment. I'd like us to beat them and go for max points in the remaining games. Beating Chelsea would be a massive boost to the entire team and a signal to all our rivals for next year as well.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Welbeck on Alonso springs to mind. IMHO masterpiece.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Mourinho knows that his team isn't in good form and i believe he'll choose a more cautious approach. Imo it will be Ramires/Mikel next to Matic with Fabregas playing in front of those two. Hazard will probably be on the left wing to keep Valencia and Herrera from going forward often. So, it will basically be Azpi-Ramires(Mikel)-Hazard against Mata-Herrera-Valencia on that side.

On our left side Jose will definitely try to exploit Blind's lack of pace with Willian or Oscar (i believe Willian will start). Generally speaking, our recent tactics have the wingers pressing high which results in the FBs also playing relatively higher on the pitch. That's why we often see Smalling and Jones moving to the wide areas to defend and Carrick dropping deeper in the CB position to cover them. I'm pretty sure that Chelsea's counter attacks will aim to get the ball with pace to Hazard/Willian on our FBs' backs while Fabregas will try to find some pockets of space down the central channels (especially when Carrick drops deeper). And i hope that Carrick will be able to start.

If we manage to maintain our defensive shape and stay compact in the midfield throughout the 90 minutes, i believe we'll find a goal. If Rooney-Mata and Young keep pressing the back four like the did in the last matches and manage to slow down Chelsea's build up play, we'll probably be ok. We should also try to not give away many fouls or corners.

Fergie is indeed an underrated tactician. I always believed that the 2008 CL final was a good game tactically. I really liked our setup on that night. We knew that Chelsea would use the left flank to attack with Cole and Malouda. Hargreeves played more or less as a third midfielder keeping an eye on Lampard, Carrick stayed in front of Rio-Vidic (securing the central channels), Rooney was trying to create numerical advantages on Chelsea's strong side (he was even tracking back Cole when needed) while Tevez and Ronaldo were constantly swapping positions and keeping Essien deep. Giggs and Nani were good subs too, they offered us the required energy levels in extra time.

 

[DWelbz19]

I don't think Mourinho will be the relishing this at all. He'll dig deep and stick for the draw. Try and sneak a set piece goal and get Fabregas off without picking up a card.

 

[blitz133w]

I think we should be more worried about chelsea. Our team is fixed. There shouldn't be any surprises I guess. Blind and Young on the left are excellent while attacking but I've seen them in trouble every time they are faced with an overlapping wingback. Jose may take advantage of that. Exactly same will happen on the right side. Mata is absolutely useless when he's faced against half-a-decent dribbler. Players go past him as if he's invisible. I know there are exceptions to this but you simply cannot depend on him during defending. To make matters worse, we are facing two excellent full backs in Ivanovic and Azpilicueta.

Jose should make sure Carrick doesn't get space to pull those defence splitting passes from deep. Fellaini is unstoppable at the moment. Matic is gonna have a hard time sticking to him. If he manages to keep Matic busy, that's his job done. LvG will make sure Fabregas will not get much space to dictate the play. Smalling and Jones should be well equipped to deal with Remy/Costa/Drogba as long as their supply is cut off from the midfield. Herrera will not be as effective as usual this time. He will not be able to press so many good midfielders alone. I expect us to see a little bit less possession as well. 50-50 seems probable.

I see us being more conservative with the ball. Less risks, more patient and try to play more of pointless passes just to make Chelsea work. This game will not be like the one against city . No end to end stuff. Should be a great game to watch nonetheless.

Talking about tactical battles of the past, Fergie's teams in Europe were usually excellent. Specially during 2006-2009 in the knockout stages. Phil Jones man marking Ronaldo in both the legs was almost a genius move.Park Ji Sung stamping his authority over Pirlo was fun. We had this solid 4-5-1 formation away from home which nullified so many teams. SAF was so unlucky in that short period where his whole gameplan was destroyed many times by some unexpected occurrence. Rafael red against Bayern, Nani's red against Madrid, poor refereeing decisions, etc. Our counter attack was unbelievable in THAT season though. We scored some lightning quick goals. Makes me wanna watch the season review again

 

[Will Singh]

Why'd you take a draw? We're in much better form than them at the moment. I'd like us to beat them and go for max points in the remaining games. Beating Chelsea would be a massive boost to the entire team and a signal to all our rivals for next year as well.

Oh I agree and yes I'd like us to win also but anythings possible and we don't know how the team will react if they beat us which is why I'd take a draw!

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Interested to hear some Chelsea fans views on this @duffer @ItsEssexRob

I don't think Mourinho will be the relishing this at all. He'll dig deep and stick for the draw. Try and sneak a set piece goal and get Fabregas off without picking up a card.

Before the Liverpool game at Anfield last season, Chelsea had lost 3 of the last 6 and followed it up by drawing to Norwich 0-0 at home... but you just know that Liverpool game gave him a hardon for weeks... it's shit like that which he thrives off.

Also, Fabregas and Matic have had their cards wiped now, so no suspension if they get a booking.

 

[The Man Himself]

One reason - possibly the main reason - I'm looking forward to Sunday's clash at Stamford Bridge is the head-to-head between LVG and Mourinho.

I think Jose will be relishing this one, much like he relished the game against Liverpool at Anfield last season. We're the leagues biggest story in terms of form and style at the moment, and he's going to give it everything to show that there's no system that beats him. So to that end, how will Chelsea combat us? There's been talk of Zouma coming into midfield, but I'm not sure he's good enough in that role to combat Fellaini... also, how defensive is Mourinho actually prepared to go at home?

On top of all that, how are we going to come at them? I can see all our playing shifting to the right-hand side this time, with LVG maybe second guessing Mourinho shutting down our left-side of the pitch. Also, do we make a plan for Hazard?

And as a general note, what are other times we had fascinating tactical match-ups. As a tactition, Fergie was underrated in my opinion, and certain games in Europe spring to mind... so what are the ones you remember most fondly?

Haah. I am thinking similar since yesterday too once I got over the Euphoria of derby win. About tactical battle. So much so, I forgot there are CL games tonight and tomorrow which can have good tactical battles too. This one is the biggest though. Fergie was underrated as tactician, yeah, but he wasn't a greatest at that too. Maybe more so because his teams excelled in doing some other things better in the game. It was more of common-sense based play and superlative will to win was the key driving factor.

LvG and Mou are two coaches who pay attention to minutest of details. 4-3-3 is theoretically perfect counter formation to 4-2-3-1 which Mourinho uses. Our left side, which is troubling every opponent since Spurs game, will be better handled by Mourinho's team. Zouma and/or Ramires can play as Nev-Carra said. Our right vs their left, we look weak, mainly because of Hazard vs Valencia and Mata not greatest in tracking back. Plus Matic and Azpilcueta are more than handy for anyone to take care.

If we have to focus too much on Hazard threat, we can play Rafael as RB and Valencia further forward on wing and negate that side but I don't think LvG will do that change for this game suddenly. It looks safe in theory but Valencia hasn't played forward on pitch from start in ages iirc. It will cut down out attacking threat/passing intelligence too.

I agree that we will probably try to use right side more this game and switch more but their left is stronger and we will have to be exceptionally well to get goals from our right.

0-0 or 1-1 is written all over this. Hope that is not the case actually, we win and there are goals. I also think that AdM from bench will play some part in this game. If it is high intensity tactical battle till 65-70 min, exhausting players, and we are drawing, we can unleash Di Maria.

 

[Borys]

I am not worried about losing, I am worried about this being a dull game.

I wouldn’t settle for a draw if I’m honest, we have a big chance to win this one. Chelsea got lucky this week.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I am not worried about losing, I am worried about this being a dull game.

I wouldn’t settle for a draw if I’m honest, we have a big chance to win this one. Chelsea got lucky this week.

To be fair, dull games between us and Chelsea at the Bridge are pretty rare...

 

[Trigg]

Why would he be scared to do that? You need bravery to set your team up in a bold manner.

Mourinho's tactical genius is so incredibly overrated. He's a defence minded manager. Tony Pulis sets his team's up defensively and doesn't get labelled a mastermind or something. Mourinho is great at instilling discipline, and belief, that's for me what makes him a top manager. But he's hardly some innovative tactcial genius as many seem to think. Spoiling is easier than creating.

Because some managers don't want the backlash from playing negative, thought that was self explanatory really. Especially with managers of bigger clubs. Look at Wenger, Rodgers and Pellegrini, all managers who at times should have played more cautiously but didn't.

And with the greatest of respect to Pulis, WBA and Stoke etc, thats different.

 

[Raees]

Two legs v Barcelona in 2007/08. First leg was the decision to play Ronaldo alone up front... stood out as he nearly won us the game. It didn't work quite as well v Pep's Barca.

 

[Nighteyes]

Mourinho will set up for a draw, no doubt about it.

A draw here and title is done and dusted.

 

[Borys]

To be fair, dull games between us and Chelsea at the Bridge are pretty rare...

True but firstly, we are in much better form than they are right now, and secondly all they need is a draw. I really don’t think Mourinho is going to play for anything more.

 

[Bwuk]

I think Chelsea will play Ramires on the right, and Matic in the middle with Zouma.

Remy
Hazard - Cesc - Ramires
Zouma - Matic
Azpilicueta - Terry - Cahill - Ivanovic
Courtois​

 

[The Man Himself]

Why would he be scared to do that? You need bravery to set your team up in a bold manner.

Mourinho's tactical genius is so incredibly overrated. He's a defence minded manager. Tony Pulis sets his team's up defensively and doesn't get labelled a mastermind or something. Mourinho is great at instilling discipline, and belief, that's for me what makes him a top manager. But he's hardly some innovative tactcial genius as many seem to think. Spoiling is easier than creating.

How do you define 'innovative tactical genius'? A coach can be innovative in his defensive setup too. It is a joke to compare him to Tony Pulis. We all know what will happen to current Chelsea if Pulis were to manage instead of Mourinho with same players and resources.

Many managers try defensive approach, many managers try well drilled tactical approach. Forget Pulis, even better ones at that like Benitez don't come close to Mourinho's record of forming winning team and winning trophies, both in league and cup. If 'spoiling' was so easy, whilst winning trophies, others would have been able to do so too.

There is no set way of playing football and manager can be 'creative and innovative' in setting up team defensively too and do the job.

Lastly, current Chelsea is just 1 goal behind the top scoring team of league with 1 match less played. His Madrid team set goals record I think when they won title.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How do you define 'innovative tactical genius'? A coach can be innovative in his defensive setup too. It is a joke to compare him to Tony Pulis. We all know what will happen to current Chelsea if Pulis were to manage instead of Mourinho with same players and resources.

No one compares him to Pulis as a manager, clearly. My point was different. I'd say klopp and guardiola were innovative managers in recent times. Mourinho instills discipline but not seen anything particularly innovative from him. Have you?

Many managers try defensive approach, many managers try well drilled tactical approach. Forget Pulis, even better ones at that like Benitez don't come close to Mourinho's record of forming winning team and winning trophies, both in league and cup. If 'spoiling' was so easy, whist winning trophies, others would have been able to do so too.

Again, you're getting precious and defensive for Mourinho for no reason. No one is saying pulis is as good as him. No need to make an argument where there isn't one to win.

Lastly, current Chelsea is just 1 goal behind the top scoring team of league with 1 match less played. His Madrid team set goals record I think when they won title.

It's not all about goals scored. His team's are efficient, and they tend to score goals because they tend to be very good. They're not particularly good to watch though, and in general he is defence minded. It's clear as day especially in most big games. He likes his team's to nullify first rather than spring froward and dominate.

His Madrid side are the only team of his that I really liked watching, but that was probably more due to ronaldo, Di Maria, ozil etc and him sort of being forced into having to play a different way due to the fans and the type of players.

I'm not sure why people take it as an insult that Mourinho is defensive in nature. He has made his name out of a) trophies and b) his nullifying of attacks. I have great respect for his success, but I don't think he's tactically the genius people here make him out to be. Like I said, strengths are the discipline and belief he gives to his players. tactically I'm sure he's very good (as if I'm adept to know for sure) but not unique as some make out to be.

 

[RedorDead21]

I think Chelsea will play Ramires on the right, and Matic in the middle with Zouma.

Remy
Hazard - Cesc - Ramires
Zouma - Matic
Azpilicueta - Terry - Cahill - Ivanovic
Courtois​

Thats so more powerful than our line up.

 

[Nighteyes]

Chelsea's only threat is Eden Hazard.

Keep him quiet and we'll smash them.

 

[The Man Himself]

No one compares him to Pulis as a manager, clearly. My point was different. I'd say klopp and guardiola were innovative managers in recent times. Mourinho instills discipline but not seen anything particularly innovative from him. Have you?


Again, you're getting precious and defensive for Mourinho for no reason. No one is saying pulis is as good as him. No need to make an argument where there isn't one to win.


It's not all about goals scored. His team's are efficient, and they tend to score goals because they tend to be very good. They're not particularly good to watch though, and in general he is defence minded. It's clear as day especially in most big games. He likes his team's to nullify first rather than spring froward and dominate.

His Madrid side are the only team of his that I really liked watching, but that was probably more due to ronaldo, Di Maria, ozil etc and him sort of being forced into having to play a different way due to the fans and the type of players.

I'm not sure why people take it as an insult that Mourinho is defensive in nature. He has made his name out of a) trophies and b) his nullifying of attacks. I have great respect for his success, but I don't think he's tactically the genius people here make him out to be. Like I said, strengths are the discipline and belief he gives to his players. tactically I'm sure he's very good (as if I'm adept to know for sure) but not unique as some make out to be.

There was no need to put Pulis in that point then. There is a reason Pulis doesn't get called mastermind and Mourinho does.

He is defensive minded, yes. I was making the point that only attacking or 'good to watch' football doesn't make someone tactical genius or innovative against the point you made that his tactical genius is overrated. Tactical genius doesn't limit till setting up formation not tried before or usually. Playing right type of players in right type of role for a given match is also part of tactics and that's where he does well. Afterwards, ensuring every player knows his role well and does it perfectly is part of it too. I don't think that manager has to start playing false 9s and sweepers or 3 at back to be tactical genius. Football match tactics has much more to it.

To me, a manager is tactically very good if his team is setup perfectly for a given match. Based on situation, based on opposition team, its quality etc etc. This is where Mourinho never fails. Obviously this doesn't mean he will win every match but very rarely he gets outwitted tactically and that is testament to his ability. It doesn't matter if his team's playing style doesn't carry some fancy name.

 

[RedorDead21]

Chelsea's only threat is Eden Hazard.

Keep him quiet and we'll smash them.

And every set piece.......