Ten Hag's cultural re-reset

All the posts that talk about a talent / standard reset and attitude reset are spot on. I don't think it has anything to do with nationality.

The players mentioned in the OP talk of Maguire, Shaw, AWB - all have shown they are not quite up to the standard we need. The only one i'd say shouldn't be on that opening list is Greenwood because he's out for different reasons obviously
 
webbthepostie said:
Maybe we should relocate to Kent as it'd be better for attracting the French Kids.
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If that's better for developing talents I'm all up for it.

I understand local lads having joy watching people from Manchester in the team. But for me, and a lot of foreign fans around the world, our only connection to Manchester is the club. So we don't hold any special value for local lads, I personally rate more our academy players but I made no distinctions whatsoever about their nationality.
 
We will buy British talents again, but only that they will have to be proper players
 
SAFMUTD said:
If that's better for developing talents I'm all up for it.

I understand local lads having joy watching people from Manchester in the team. But for me, and a lot of foreign fans around the world, our only connection to Manchester is the club. So we don't hold any special value for local lads, I personally rate more our academy players but I made no distinctions whatsoever about their nationality.
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If that's not a wum, then I really don't know what to say to that:wenger:
 
He's still letting Rashford stink up the place. He probably has little choice though as we lack pace without him.

I hope he has the courage to keep Maguire on the bench but how long until Maguire's camp kicks up a stink and starts leaking to the press?
 
SAFMUTD said:
What about it? Does he get extra praise because they're British? Developing British players hold any extra value against developing foreign players?
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If a top manager does it then maybe there's something there after all.
 
Cultural reset? Playing attractive and aggressive football, investing on relatively young player with the occasional veteran/genius signing on the cheap and putting underperforming players on the bench irrespective of their reputation is prime SAF's mentality. I guess the cultural reset was done during Mou/Championship time and we're back to were we once were. All ETH needs to do now is giving the likes of Garnacho a run.
 
Blood Mage said:
He's still letting Rashford stink up the place. He probably has little choice though as we lack pace without him.

I hope he has the courage to keep Maguire on the bench but how long until Maguire's camp kicks up a stink and starts leaking to the press?
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A manager can push to a certain point before he has a revolt on his hands. He already sent Maguire and Ronaldo on the bench.
 
SAFMUTD said:
What about it? Does he get extra praise because they're British? Developing British players hold any extra value against developing foreign players?
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From a grass roots perspective - Man Utd are a british club and therefore their youth development focuses on developing British players (they can't sign foreign players until x age) - hence it's always nice to see a British player make it from academy to first team, do you not agree?

It's only when they get older that if there's a talent who is better than what we have and we can sign and bring in at 14/15/16 then it should be an option.

I don't really care about how many British we have in our starting XI given the last ten years, but I think every United fan would love to see a core of academy players in our starting XI though
 
I don't think it's remotely conscious, his strategy was clearly to buy players he knew from Dutch football. It can hardly be founded on nationality or anti British players if the criteria is the manager's knowledge of them.

What you would expect to see is the strategy will evolve over time as the recruitment team work with the manager. Part of that always has to be homegrown players because they're important. The issue is always getting good enough homegrown players. City probably spunked money on Phillips just to tick this particular box, that's how desperate it is. It's hard to get the right quality for the right price.
 
We need an rvn said:
From a grass roots perspective - Man Utd are a british club and therefore their youth development focuses on developing British players (they can't sign foreign players until x age) - hence it's always nice to see a British player make it from academy to first team, do you not agree?

It's only when they get older that if there's a talent who is better than what we have and we can sign and bring in at 14/15/16 then it should be an option.

I don't really care about how many British we have in our starting XI given the last ten years, but I think every United fan would love to see a core of academy players in our starting XI though
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Couldn't agree more, the core of academy players is a nice touch irrespective of their nationality.
 
Nero said:
Ole's reset was never a nationality thing, it was an attitude and mentality thing. Unfortunately it didn't work out too well.

Ten Hag's reset also has nothing to do with nationality.

There never was a 'Brexit FC', evidenced by the fact Ole bought more foreign players than British players.
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This. The whe Brexit FC thing was politics being shoved in where it didn't belong, and was irksome. Ole signed players he felt were good for United as you say.
 
Why is everyone in this thread ignoring the homegrown quotas?

Sure you can have homegrown players who aren't British, but that requires poaching them from other clubs which isn't always possible (or even usually possible). Kids start training with academies from a very young age, so the majority of players we produce will be British. We'll be able to bring in a few youngsters from abroad, but it can be expensive, and the next Mbappe or Xavi might - shock - not want to leave their club, family, home country at 16/17 and uproot to move to Manchester. Bringing through players from the local or surrounding areas should therefore obviously be a priority.
 
Blood Mage said:
I hope he has the courage to keep Maguire on the bench but how long until Maguire's camp kicks up a stink and starts leaking to the press?
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As long as we keep shutting out the opposition with Varane and Martinez he'll only look like an even more deluded wanker if he does that.
 
I see a big difference: Solskjaer's was a cultural REBOOT while here we are talking about RESET.
 
ForeverRed1 said:
The first two games maybe needed to happen.. gave him a massive reality check which resulted in maguire and Ronaldo being dropped.
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I agree those two games needed to happen. But not necessarily for a reality check for the manager. I think he knew damn well both those players needed to be re-integrated into the team in roles that were sustainable. Most knew it too so why would the manager not be able to see it. Best way to do that is give them the rope and he wasted no time using said rope so I think it was a planned out sequence which is probably always the case with EtH. He's playing chess here not checkers like some of his predecessors.

hobbers said:
Irony being that the attributes that Ole talked up as what he wanted from his side - hard workers, playing for the badge, good rapport with each other, good communication, team spirit - are the antithesis of the group of players he picked.
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I think you nailed it here. Ole is a good manager, he just is not the manager this ownership group needs. When your owners are bad you need a dynamic manager who can share his vision throughout the club and get everyone on the same page.

Maybe EtH is benefitting from timing too. I at least think following these others has set him up to be listened to by the shitty owners. But either way we are seeing what happens when you make a strong hire and then support him. All of a sudden the additions make sense. All of a sudden the players get treated appropriately. All of a sudden there is fight and esprit de corps among the roster.
 
Which current British players are at the level of Rio, Terry, Lampard, Scholes, Carrick, Rooney, Gerrard etc?
Kane, Sterling may be. But there isnt a lot to choose from to create a top class British core at present. Our academy hasn't quite produced top class British talent for years, most of them play in low level premier league, championship sides. Shaw hasn't quite reached his potential.
 
Nick7 said:
If AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay, and Rashford perform, maybe as unlikely as that is, they will play and rightly so. The “cultural reset” should not be about nationality, it should be about mentality.
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The mentality to perform below the standards expected for sometimes 2 full seasons should be met with the door not a clean slate for me. McTom I expect will survive but the others..I doubt it.
 
Nothing to do with nationality. He’s just addressing the lack of mentality and talent on the team and the best available players he was after / we could get just happened to not be English. There is a debate perhaps to be had about what that says about the mentality of English players as a whole but he didn’t purposely not target English players.
 
I still don't know why we paid 130m on Maguire and AWB. If it was a nationality thing, Dunk and Trippier would have been a better choice. There were so many decent English options much better than what we signed. It was a mega feckup from whomsoever concerned. I'm still livid. This is how you waste money !
 
Skills said:
It's quite likely that our strongest starting XI soon will have only 1 british player featuring (Sancho). That's going to be a massive contrast to the team that finished second a few years ago that was the product of the cultural reset. That team heavily featured : AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay, Rashford & Greenwood in our starting XI. From 6 down to only 1 regular British starter.

Was this done consciously?

How do those of you who were big proponents/fans of the original cultural reset feel about this?
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Regardless of nationality, it is a mindset cultural reset, nothing to do with British players or not. Just weeding out the mentally weak.
 
We need an rvn said:
From a grass roots perspective - Man Utd are a british club and therefore their youth development focuses on developing British players (they can't sign foreign players until x age) - hence it's always nice to see a British player make it from academy to first team, do you not agree?

It's only when they get older that if there's a talent who is better than what we have and we can sign and bring in at 14/15/16 then it should be an option.

I don't really care about how many British we have in our starting XI given the last ten years, but I think every United fan would love to see a core of academy players in our starting XI though
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England is no friend of Manchester United. As Sir Bobby said, the FA inflexibility led to the Munich crash while players like Beckham and Phil Nev were crucified for mistakes with England. Not to forget the media bias towards English players and how they react when a foreign player threatens a local player's first team place (ex Martinez vs Maguire or DDG vs Hendo). So we're better off not having any English players.

Having said that the academy is important even when its failing to produce WC players.

A- Squad players tend to cost the club money. If 4-5 youth players are able to play at this level then we can spare that money for the real stuff (ex bringing in WC players)
B- A good academy like ours tend to be self financed. That's because players who simply do not make the grade tend to be sold at lower divisions for profit
C- The homegrown rules need to be taken into account and local talent cost alot.

Nevertheless I do worry about our academy

A- It hasn't produced WC players for a long long time
B- The players it had produced have flaws in their character (Hendo, Lingard, Pogba etc) while some are utter jerks (Greenwood, Morrison)

When SAF took the job he led a proper clean sweep within the academy ranks. That lead to a drop of talent in the short term but would pave the way to the class of 92. I believe that ETH might need to do the same.
 
Will Singh said:
Enlighten us why they were formed and I bet it’s got nothing to do with foreigners.
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Will Singh said:
Enlighten us why they were formed and I bet it’s got nothing to do with foreigners.
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Sports and social clubs for working class lads mate, the history is not difficult to find. The point is that it's an essential part of Manchester United that it's part of the Manchester community. The main function of the academy should be providing Manchester's school kids a way into football. I'm in agreement that 1st team players shouldn't be signed just because they're British but football clubs are about more than football, always have been and always should be.
 
webbthepostie said:
Sports and social clubs for working class lads mate, the history is not difficult to find. The point is that it's an essential part of Manchester United that it's part of the Manchester community. The main function of the academy should be providing Manchester's school kids a way into football. I'm in agreement that 1st team players shouldn't be signed just because they're British but football clubs are about more than football, always have been and always should be.
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I don’t get what I’ve said different to what you’ve said, my original post was that we have a tradition of promoting academy players and that the first team shouldn’t be picked on their nationality and then for who knows why you asked me why were football clubs formed when that had nothing to do with the subject at hand because back then like you said it was for sports and social clubs along with factory workers etc. The academy’s were local and back then the UK wasn’t as multicultural as it is now. So although you might have a Manchester lad in the academy he could be from anywhere in the world.
 
Will Singh said:
I don’t get what I’ve said different to what you’ve said, my original post was that we have a tradition of promoting academy players and that the first team shouldn’t be picked on their nationality and then for who knows why you asked me why were football clubs formed when that had nothing to do with the subject at hand because back then like you said it was for sports and social clubs along with factory workers etc. The academy’s were local and back then the UK wasn’t as multicultural as it is now. So although you might have a Manchester lad in the academy he could be from anywhere in the world.
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My apologies in that case. I think I misunderstood which post you were replying to.
 
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