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Tennis 2023

Bepi

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Ok I am forgetting I am on a UK forum sometimes and clearly Emma is the brightest prospect, which is fair enough. :D I think her fair target for this season should be getting nearer to 20 than 50 in the wta 2023 race, which should mean she is right on track to become a reliable pro for the future.
 

Kevin

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Despite missing two grand slams due to not wanting to comply with vax rules last year the Djokinator might go level with Nadal in a fortnight... Seeing how his body is holding up vs Nadal's situation it's a matter of time anyway. Djokovic will hold the record when both have retired.
 

Rams

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Ok I am forgetting I am on a UK forum sometimes and clearly Emma is the brightest prospect, which is fair enough. :D I think her fair target for this season should be getting nearer to 20 than 50 in the wta 2023 race, which should mean she is right on track to become a reliable pro for the future.
I’m not saying it just because of her nationality. I’ve been following tennis for over 40 years and you can pick out the great players because it just seems to come so easily for them. Whether it was McEnroe, Samprass, Federer, Serena, etc., they all stand out. Even when I first saw Murray I knew he’d win slams. The same can be said about Radacanu. Physically she’ll get stronger & fitter. She’ll probably struggle the make much gains in the rankings the next 18months or so, then suddenly break through dramatically as her fitness reaches a certain level. That’s if she really wants it that is, but the World is her oyster.
 

RORY65

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Ok I am forgetting I am on a UK forum sometimes and clearly Emma is the brightest prospect, which is fair enough. :D I think her fair target for this season should be getting nearer to 20 than 50 in the wta 2023 race, which should mean she is right on track to become a reliable pro for the future.
I think that is a fair and realistic aim for her for this year, the reality is due to the pandemic and then injuries she still hasn't had a proper season on tour playing regularly.

I wouldn't have the doubts you have about her game, I think even today she showed the talent she does possess, against one of the best players around (albeit one who is also young and also has flaws to improve), which could make her a major factor on the tour in the future but it's not going to happen until her body can hold up for multiple events in a row and she has some continuity.
 

Desert Eagle

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Ruud out in four sets and Zverev at one set all. Think we are witnessing a new crop of decent American male tennis players.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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That is totally wrong way to look at it. If in early 2000s Hewitt, Safin, Nalbandian and Roddick managed to challenge Federer - it would have been "strong" era, but because they didn't - it is a weak era. If players like Del Potro (he actually has an excuse due to brutal injury to the wrist), Berdych, Cilic, Gasquet, Tsonga, Murray managed to archive higher peak - late 2000s and early 2010s would have been a strong era. And then there were Tsitsipas, Thiem, Zverev, Medvedev, Dimitrov, etc... If they managed to do something we would have another illusion of time of great champions. The reason why there is no big number of champions since early 2000s are Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Only Wawrinka and Murray are multi-slam champions since big3 era started (end of 2011). Rest of grand slam champions are under 5 since 2006 - Cilic, Nishikori, Medvedev, Thiem and Del Potro. Maybe I am missing someone - o yeah Alcaraz. Once Nadal and Djokovic are gone I will be surprised if 10 time grand slam champion emerges until 2040 and it will be the time of "great champions". As far as young kids choosing sports, they all choose few and stick with one eventually. Tennis is unique because it requires commitment from very young age, sometimes too young to choose something else.
When I talk about depth and competition, I’m not just focusing on the players competing for grand slams, in the top 10. I’m focusing on the top 100 overall (to me that’s a big deal as those are the players who qualify directly for grand slam main draws and other tour events. I watch as much ATP tennis as time permits including smaller events, and I think tournaments like Rotterdam, Estoril etc. were far more interesting in previous eras than they are currently, and the same goes for early rounds of grand slams and masters series events. There was more variety in terms of playing styles and surface conditions in previous eras (things have become more homogenised over time). I mean reverting back to that 1992 US Open, Edberg beat Krajicek, Lendl, Chang and Sampras in succession to win that tournament, 4 players with noticeably contrasting playing styles. 2 years earlier, Sampras beat Muster, Lendl, McEnroe and Agassi to win the title, again beating players with a wide range of different styles. Modern day players certainly don't have to worry about that.

Variety has massively gone out of the window, and so many players in born from the 90s onwards, play bland ‘academy style’ tennis.

And the ‘transitional period’ in the early 00s was labelled as week, but again I strongly doubt the depth in the ATP top 100 has been better in recent years than it was then. 2001 for example was a wonderful year packed full of high quality matches across the board, in tournaments at all levels on the tour.

I think that tennis for a long time was only a big deal in the 4 countries that hosted grand slams, then became more popular in other countries across the globe over time (it's popularity really exploded in the US in the 70s and the Connors, Borg, McEnroe era significantly improved it's global status). But then over time the gulf between the money on offer in teams sports and it widened to such a huge degree (in recent times most tennis players would love to earn what League One footballers are making never mind Championship footballers, and the lowest earners in the major North American sports leagues earn more than players in the lower reaches of the ATP top 100) that the appeal of tennis on the men's side began to reduce again. I honestly think that the talent pool in men's tennis has shrunk in recent times after it previously increased over time, and that professional tennis has become more elitist and restrictive. I mean challenger level players /most players outside the top 100 are financially worse off in 2023 than they were in 1993 or 2003, because the costs of playing expenses has increased at a faster rate (with inflation) than the levels of lower level prize money on offer.

Agassi didn't grow up in poverty or anything, but for the standards of men's tennis (you get far more interesting backstories in women's tennis with it being the no. 1 women's sport for such a long time) came from a reasonably blue collar background. His dad famously pushed him towards tennis, and said that if he could have done it again, he would have pushed him towards baseball or golf instead. He grew up when tennis was approaching and then at its most popular in the US.

But I still love playing and watching tennis though.
 

saivet

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After the talk of American male players, their top seed in Fritz is out in 5 sets. Really disappointing loss for him. I think he should have made the SF here, so to lose on R2 is a quite a shock.
 

wr8_utd

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Djokovic probably has the easiest draw I can ever think of to get to the final here. Nick, who for once was in Novak's quarter, pulls out without playing. Ruud, Fritz, and Zverev out today as well. RBA on the verge of going out.
 

Brophs

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Fritz, Ruud and Schwartzman overnight. Zverev on the brink. The draw is starting to look a little thin. Not sure I can see Djokovic really being challenged by anything other than his own fitness.
 

wr8_utd

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Fritz, Ruud and Schwartzman overnight. Zverev on the brink. The draw is starting to look a little thin. Not sure I can see Djokovic really being challenged by anything other than his own fitness.
Medvedev is the only with any chance whatsoever of slightly challenging him and I don't even trust him to navigate through the draw.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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In terms of Raducanu, I hope she can win a WTA level title this year, even if it is a low key WTA 250 one, and to adjust to life on the tour including winning back to back matches at more events, If she can do that, then I'll hope she can register some more deep grand slam runs.

Last year was always likely to be difficult for her, adjusting to her first year on the tour. She won the US Open and made history (winning 20 sets out of 20 to win a grand slam title with 0 tiebreaks and conceding more than 4 games in just 1 of those 20 sets), a few weeks after she received excellent A-Level results. But her development in terms of matches on the junior and then ITF circuit was affected by her drastically reduced activity due to COVID and her also wanting to concentrate on her studies and complete her A-Levels (a very sensible decision there). In terms of experience, she was more like a 16 year old when she won that US Open title than an 18 year old, having barely played any WTA level matches beforehand.

I see a lot of criticism of her for being a fluke, one-hit wonder, flash in the pan etc., but even if she never comes close to repeating her 2021 US Open success again, what she achieved then was still incredible (and also to repeat historic), in a sport in which most people who try to turn pro fail to break even and lose money.
 

saivet

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Fritz, Ruud and Schwartzman overnight. Zverev on the brink. The draw is starting to look a little thin. Not sure I can see Djokovic really being challenged by anything other than his own fitness.
Fritz is a big one, as looking at that bracket of the draw it looks incredibly week and we'll certainly now have a surprise semi finalist up against Djokovic. It's actually presented a great chance for Murray if he can get through today.

For Djokovic, playing Dimitrov in R3, possibly PCB or De Minaur in R4 and Rune as a potential QF is about as tough as it can get for him right now. Obviously the draw can fall apart but I think if he gets those guys in a row one, maybe two of them can cause him problems. I think all of those guys should be able to stay with Djokovic physically at the very least, though question marks on Dimitrov.
 

Rajma

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Fritz is a big one, as looking at that bracket of the draw it looks incredibly week and we'll certainly now have a surprise semi finalist up against Djokovic. It's actually presented a great chance for Murray if he can get through today.

For Djokovic, playing Dimitrov in R3, possibly PCB or De Minaur in R4 and Rune as a potential QF is about as tough as it can get for him right now. Obviously the draw can fall apart but I think if he gets those guys in a row one, maybe two of them can cause him problems. I think all of those guys should be able to stay with Djokovic physically at the very least, though question marks on Dimitrov.
Rune is the one to watch out for Djokovic, he already beat him in Paris finals.
 

saivet

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Medical timeout for Djokovic. He won the first set 6-1 but currently at 4-5 and serving to stay in the set. Anyone watched the 2nd set? I just put it on as I saw it was 4-5 for a while.
 

Drawfull

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Medical timeout for Djokovic. He won the first set 6-1 but currently at 4-5 and serving to stay in the set. Anyone watched the 2nd set? I just put it on as I saw it was 4-5 for a while.
He's only started struggling in his last service game, Couacaud played some inspired tennis to keep pace in the set. He (Couacaud) got injured in the first as well, and had a long time out.
 

saivet

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Commentators mentioned the guy Djokovic is playing also had a medical timeout earlier in the match. Suspect should be able to still get through this one as long as his injury isn't too severe
 

saivet

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Djokovic playing very aggressive tennis which is bringing him some joy and I think he can still come through this match as Couacaud is barely a top 200 player but can he really manage a hamstring problem that is seemingly getting worse against better players?

He managed to do it a few years again when he had an abdominal tear vs Fritz and beat Medvedev, Zverev and Roanic on the way to the title. Maybe some with more knowledge of sports science will know.
 

Rajma

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I think that’s it for Djokovic with his hamstring injury, it’s not something you can shake it off.
 

MattofManchester

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Yeah, Nadal's body has caught up to him.

His mind is struggling to deal with it now as well, which makes it unlikely he'll reach top form again.

I'm thinking Novak is beginning to experience the same thing. Lots of niggles and little injuries creeping in that, like Nadal, he'll try to play through, but over time it'll get worse and worse.
As fit as Novak is, he's still aging and his game also requires a huge amount of athleticism and flexibility.
He's going to aggravate that hamstring injury surely.
Thinking he'll push to win AO, then take the time off, but then struggle in Clay season due to match fitness.

Nadal, this is it I presume. Sad to see it, but his body just can't handle it anymore.
 

saivet

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Nadal injury will have him out for a couple of months so will likely miss Indian Wells and Miami. Expect him to return in Monte Carlo.

 

ExoduS

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Djokovic is saying that his injury is not good at all. Lossing a set to unknown player is not unheard off but even in latter two sets Djokovic was not that amazing. Dimitrov match will tell if he can win this or if this is going to be a short tournament.
 

Amir

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Djokovic is saying that his injury is not good at all. Lossing a set to unknown player is not unheard off but even in latter two sets Djokovic was not that amazing. Dimitrov match will tell if he can win this or if this is going to be a short tournament.
Knowing Djokovic, it goes like this: a little injured, massively injured, half dead, nearly dead, just about dead, totally dead, wins the tournament.
 

Dan_F

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Christ how did Murray miss that volley. I definitely wouldn’t mind watching another set of this.
 

saivet

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It's ridiculous that they're still playing though. The comms team mentioned that after midnight public transport is a bit rubbish; I wonder at what time it starts up again :lol:
Playing way past midnight is unfortunately way too common in tennis
 

Dan_F

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It's ridiculous that they're still playing though. The comms team mentioned that after midnight public transport in Melbourne is a bit rubbish; I wonder at what time it starts up again :lol:
I’d completely blanked about the time difference. Mental really.
 

Samid

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It's ridiculous that they're still playing though. The comms team mentioned that after midnight public transport in Melbourne is a bit rubbish; I wonder at what time it starts up again :lol:
Scheduling is a bit mad. Ruud said he wasn't in bed until 4-5 AM after very late night R1 and then he had to wake up 24h later for his early morning R2 match. Bit shocking that a professional sport shows so little regard to sleep wake cycles.
 

Drawfull

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Scheduling is a bit mad. Ruud said he wasn't in bed until 4-5 AM after very late night R1 and then he had to wake up 24h later for his early morning R2 match. Bit shocking that a professional sport shows so little regard to sleep wake cycles.
I think the whole back end of tennis can seem a bit amateurish for such a rich sport, and the laissez faire scheduling only adds to that. The TennisTV app for example is pretty crap, but the WTA option is even worse.

Watching Eurosport now, and it's the same for all broadcasters, but we don't even get to see the serve clock which pisses me off when players get a warning for persistent slowness*. Just little things that for such a rich sport shouldn't be happening.

*it's actually visible on the main camera shot on this court that Murray/Kokkinakis are on, but pretty sure you can't see it on Rod Laver, for example.
 
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Jev

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Murray is one of the most impressive sportsmen of all time. What a fighter he is.
 

RORY65

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It is, but it's still nuts. Haven't Wimbledon and the French Open got sensible stop limits these days? And it's rare to see a normal ATP/WTA event played into the small hours, I think - at least, I've never noticed it and I watch most tournaments.
Wimbledon is the only slam without the very late finishes now that Roland Garros has night sessions and even at Wimbledon it's only due to Merton council not allowing such events to go past 11. It's not necessarily a weekly occurrence but it's not that unusual on the tours for matches to be going until very late. It makes the sport look pretty amateurish and isn't fair on the players.
 

Drawfull

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Wimbledon is the only slam without the very late finishes now that Roland Garros has night sessions and even at Wimbledon it's only due to Merton council not allowing such events to go past 11. It's not necessarily a weekly occurrence but it's not that unusual on the tours for matches to be going until very late. It makes the sport look pretty amateurish and isn't fair on the players.
Wasn't sure about RG, thanks. It is very unfair on the players - not only the finish, but not knowing when they'll start (since there's no deadline really). Norrie was late yesterday, and for these two the best they're going to get is a Saturday night match, and they're not guaranteed that.