Thank you Van Gaal Thread

RedPed

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Rafael was one of my favourite United players, and I felt really bad when he was pushed out of the club. Darmian is ok I guess, but he does not excite me as much. Rafael is a typical Fergie player while Darmian is all LVG.
100% this. Really stupid going on about his injury record as if he asked for a fractured cheekbone and rib. No different to Shaw who's injury record is just as bad yet people still think he's the next Messiah. He got himself fit and I remember him scoring an absolute screamer in the reserves but still van Gaal binned him. Really fecking hate van Gaal for what he's done over the last two years.

Raf would've been just fine if given the chance.
 

Moonred

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Darmian was well rated for Torino before the transfer. And the general perception was good. Memphis and Darmian have just have had a poor season undoubtedly but it didn't look it would be the case at the time.
 

prath92

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Stats can't account for the million times Valencia gets caught out of position. Usually it's when a cross is arriving from our left and he has for no reason got sucked infield leaving the back post open. Though this season I noticed some variety in his positional mistakes - he also lets runners ghost past him and get goalside, and occassionally doesn't bother to track back into anywhere near our box if he fells the move has gone far enough ahead.
A man of many unique defensive talents.
Most of what you say is applicable for every right back in the world.
 

POF

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His defensive stats prove otherwise. Statistically he was one of the best right backs in 14/15 and is very solid. Wouldn't be surprising if he started for mourinho too frankly.
Statistically? Ok, we'll leave it there. It would be very surprising if he starts for Mourinho.

He'll start and they will wait patiently for any mistake that he makes to slate him.

I think Jose will like him,although Darmian may improve too.
Do you really think United fans are actually hoping for one of their own players to play badly so they can "slate him" on an internet forum? Oh, I cannot wait for him to cost the team a vital game so I can have the ultimate joy of slating him. What a great day it will be.
 

Mal donaghy

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Before LVG came to United I never knew a coach 'took credit' for buying players or giving players debuts, like it wasn't part of his job. All of a sudden he became responsible for clubs successes after he leaves, successes he never seems able to accomplish when he's actually there. Some are even praising him for Smalling's improvement last season ffs. I look forward to people still praising him for the 'foundations' he left here 5 years from now, as long as Martial or Rashford are involved in the team.
If it wasn't for another spineless English referee it could have been a different story. But you are talking shit here again, Bayern wasn't playing as well as in the weeks before, but the match was balanced and could have gone both ways


I agree Van Gaal's brilliance disguised the lack of quality players in this generation, I mean from 3rd to not qualifying makes it clear how important a manager can be. But the in England well respected Hiddink couldn't even beat Iceland and Turkey with about the same players Van Gaal beat Spain.

Dutch football is mostly in decline for financial and political reasons. If the Brexit happens and the pound weakens a decline of English football is inevitable. English clubs are already second best when it comes to buying (and having to sell) the very best players. When you can't go just wave your valuable pounds around and drain the continent from it's talents, the TV-money will decline rapidly also and when the foreign managers aren't attracted by the money anymore, the tactical level will drop to pre-PL standards, from which only Ferguson managed to escape.

Several times the population size, and you need one of the (actually quite regular) spells of self destruction by the Dutch to boast about slightly outperforming them? You are at Wales level ffs, the English national team has been nowhere near the Dutch over the last 40 years. You really want to go there? That's not because the Dutch are natural born footballers, but because of tactical guile and innovation and good schooling of youngsters, the things Van Gaal tried to bring to United.


I agree, but concerning football, mostly not his own lack of adaptability.

Maybe it will remembered as United's last and final chance to restore greatness.


No, it's your universe where there's no place for facts. You can't manage to make a point without twisting the facts or just outright making them up.


Because there appears to have been a mismatch between club and manager. At least it didn't work out, that happens, in the end didn't manage to get the thinking players his style needs and failed to keep momentum with his new style. I'm sure the idea that the manager was just shit is very reassuring for you, but the problem is much bigger than that. Bayern sacked Van Gaal too, but at least they were stuck with their choice for the direction of the club. The years that Bayern is a possession based attacking team and each year one of the favorites to win the CL started by hiring Van Gaal and the change to his style of football and the choice for youngsters. United just picks a big name has been like it's a guarantee for success, breaks with the new style and stops the development of the academy and to spend big on players who aren't wanted by Real, Barca or even another English club.

I don't really mind the sacking that much, I think it's a shame that it didn't work out, but in hindsight I think he failed to keep and gain momentum after the spring of 2015 and sign a playmaker who not only understood enough of the style to do his basic job in it, but who really understands the possibilities of it and make it fluent and very creative. Sacking is also an inherent risk of the way he is, the job he does is always about change and that will never be a smooth process. What I do mind is that United isn't continuing the chosen direction of a passing game and young players.

So the question remains, can United be successfull without Ferguson? There's no reason at all to take it for granted and the choices this board made don't make the future look any brighter to me.
Louis ????? Is that you????
 

Bruno8

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Darmian was well rated for Torino before the transfer. And the general perception was good. Memphis and Darmian have just have had a poor season undoubtedly but it didn't look it would be the case at the time.
People need to accept that some players take longer than others to adapt to PL and playing for a massive Club like United. They will eventually improve with a bit of patience. The problem is that if a new player doesn't hit the headlines during 1st season then he is automatically labelled a failure
 

slir32

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I don't really mind the sacking that much, I think it's a shame that it didn't work out, but in hindsight I think he failed to keep and gain momentum after the spring of 2015 and sign a playmaker who not only understood enough of the style to do his basic job in it, but who really understands the possibilities of it and make it fluent and very creative. Sacking is also an inherent risk of the way he is, the job he does is always about change and that will never be a smooth process. What I do mind is that United isn't continuing the chosen direction of a passing game and young players.
If he failed to sign that playmaker why did he continue with his philosophy? He should have adapted his philosophy and tactics to suit the players he had.
 

RedPed

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People need to accept that some players take longer than others to adapt to PL and playing for a massive Club like United. They will eventually improve with a bit of patience. The problem is that if a new player doesn't hit the headlines during 1st season then he is automatically labelled a failure
Try telling that to all the Rojo haters out there...of which there are many but who give every excuse under the sun for other players like Schneiderlin. :smirk:
 

-Fußballgott-

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I thought I'd start warming to him when he was gone. I haven't. Although I sometimes like picturing him sitting in the Old Trafford dugout with that f*cking notepad, makes me feel happy that I will never see that sight again.
 

prath92

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Statistically? Ok, we'll leave it there. It would be very surprising if he starts for Mourinho.
It's also clear by watching them but since you seem not to have watched any other right back, then stats are useful.
 

K2K

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Statistically? Ok, we'll leave it there. It would be very surprising if he starts for Mourinho.



Do you really think United fans are actually hoping for one of their own players to play badly so they can "slate him" on an internet forum? Oh, I cannot wait for him to cost the team a vital game so I can have the ultimate joy of slating him. What a great day it will be.
There were people on this very forum wishing United would lose games to get rid of Van Gaal.

So it's not far fetched that some people would rather Valencia play poorly and get dropped for 'the greater good'

It's why when he plays well,some need to scrutinise him for one thing or another.
 

Dr. Funkenstein

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If he failed to sign that playmaker why did he continue with his philosophy? He should have adapted his philosophy and tactics to suit the players he had.
Yes, but if it turns out that Rooney nor Herrera nor another player has the football brain to make the system work in an attacking sense, you need to get one.
 

stevoc

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He doesn't play it safe at all Valencia. In fact he gets forward most of the time. And he doesn't bomb forward blindly either. It's clear that he is in the team on merit. As for Blind he was one of our best outfielders and better than some of the actual CBs in the league so looks like he was right on that one.
Well i disagree i think Valencia plays it too safe for my liking, yeah he gets forward fair play to him but rarely does anything when he does. Run up the pitch stop, turn pass infield. Rinse, repeat for the majority of his games at RB. Not nearly good enough.

On Blind he is and never will be a Centre back never mind a top one, Van Gaal was wrong. Had we had a proper centre back in the 2-3 vs West Ham (among other games) we would have qualified for the CL. He looks great when we are on top and he can pop it about but vs a physical team with height who has a go at us he crumbles. You were talking about Mourinho selling Rafael, lets see if he ever plays Blind at Centre back. I would bet my house that he won't, because he's not very good there.

He seems half the player he was years back, injured most of the time, not an international anymore. Common sense would show that Valencia had been better at RB, reliable, disciplined vs Rafael who had average seasons for 2 years, unreliable, not the best defensively and any manager would do exactly the same. I liked Rafael but it's the tryth
In his last two years at United most of the squad were shit, 80% were dire under Moyes. And then Van Gaal came in and started fecking about with wing-backs, and then froze Rafael out after Xmas. So it's little wonder he didn't play well in those two seasons. Harsh to judge him solely on 18 months of form, and disregard 5 good years under a proper manager.

You are also entitled to your opinion on Valencia mate, but you vastly overate him in mine. He's poor defensively often caught out of position, he tries to help out in attack fair play but he's not very effective when he does. More often than not playing it safe, his best attributes are physical ones and he's good at keeping possession which is why Louis loved him.
 

stevoc

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I don't really mind when the club does that,especially for long serving players. Maybe it's a club strategy.

Maybe I could have put that better . He was phenomenal in 2013,but his perfomances post then and general lack of availability meant that it was a reasonable sale.
I don't disagree his performance level dropped post Ferguson, but he was hardly alone in that regard. Almost everyone was shit under Moyes, the reasons for his poor form under LVG don't need explaining.

I've already said he needed replaced as our first choice because of his injuries, by bringing in a proper right back.

But i keep coming back to the same point, he was the only right back in our squad at the time of sale (and no i don't count Valencia). He wasn't a trouble maker, he wasn't on huge wages, and he was more committed and passionate about United than the majority of our current squad. We should have kept him, at the time i remember thinking this is a mistake. And so it proved to be when we ended up having to play wingers and youngsters there for half the season.
 

prath92

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Well i disagree i think Valencia plays it too safe for my liking, yeah he gets forward fair play to him but rarely does anything when he does. Run up the pitch stop, turn pass infield. Rinse, repeat for the majority of his games at RB. Not nearly good enough.

On Blind he is and never will be a Centre back never mind a top one, Van Gaal was wrong. Had we had a proper centre back in the 2-3 vs West Ham (among other games) we would have qualified for the CL. He looks great when we are on top and he can pop it about but vs a physical team with height who has a go at us he crumbles. You were talking about Mourinho selling Rafael, lets see if he ever plays Blind at Centre back. I would bet my house that he won't, because he's not very good there.



In his last two years at United most of the squad were shit, 80% were dire under Moyes. And then Van Gaal came in and started fecking about with wing-backs, and then froze Rafael out after Xmas. So it's little wonder he didn't play well in those two seasons. Harsh to judge him solely on 18 months of form, and disregard 5 good years under a proper manager.

You are also entitled to your opinion on Valencia mate, but you vastly overate him in mine. He's poor defensively often caught out of position, he tries to help out in attack fair play but he's not very effective when he does. More often than not playing it safe, his best attributes are physical ones and he's good at keeping possession which is why Louis loved him.
Yeah him not being a top CB doesn't make it wrong that he was one of our best players. He has more of a chance playing under mourinho than Rafael does frankly. He is a better player. I don't even know why we are talking about him frankly though.

When SAF left, Rafael could have quite easily got his spot in the team as there was no other proper back ups (the likes of Jones, Smalling and all used to play) but not only that he didn't improve but he regressed so much. Even the likes of Smalling and de gea had poor teams but they at least improved and nailed their place.

Valencia took his chances. No way he is a defensive liability more than the norm. As you probably know, a full back is a role that's the most likely in a positional mistake. Even greats like Lahm and Maldini get caught off position. Anyway, Valencia quite clearly is a much better defensive full back. Attacking wise Rafael is better but overall Valencia is much more reliable and that's why Rafael was sold. It's the simple fact. The fact that Rafael was more or less just as average at Lyon show we weren't missing anything.
 

K2K

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I don't disagree his performance level dropped post Ferguson, but he was hardly alone in that regard. Almost everyone was shit under Moyes, the reasons for his poor form under LVG don't need explaining.

I've already said he needed replaced as our first choice because of his injuries, by bringing in a proper right back.

But i keep coming back to the same point, he was the only right back in our squad at the time of sale (and no i don't count Valencia). He wasn't a trouble maker, he wasn't on huge wages, and he was more committed and passionate about United than the majority of our current squad. We should have kept him, at the time i remember thinking this is a mistake. And so it proved to be when we ended up having to play wingers and youngsters there for half the season.
We disagree on one main point.

I view Valencia solely as a right back now and think he had largely been good when played.

Rafael was very undependable with injuries and I think that played into him being sold. People blame the Leicester game,but forget that Rafael played the next three games against Everton, WHU and Chelsea . He got injured again and that was when Valencia got into the team and kept his spot.

From then on he missed a few months,came back for the Fa cup third round,got injured again and that was largely it.

Valencia really played well in his absence. He proved himself better than competition from McNair and Damian too.
 

stevoc

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Yeah him not being a top CB doesn't make it wrong that he was one of our best players. He has more of a chance playing under mourinho than Rafael does frankly. He is a better player. I don't even know why we are talking about him frankly though.

When SAF left, Rafael could have quite easily got his spot in the team as there was no other proper back ups (the likes of Jones, Smalling and all used to play) but not only that he didn't improve but he regressed so much. Even the likes of Smalling and de gea had poor teams but they at least improved and nailed their place.

Valencia took his chances. No way he is a defensive liability more than the norm. As you probably know, a full back is a role that's the most likely in a positional mistake. Even greats like Lahm and Maldini get caught off position. Anyway, Valencia quite clearly is a much better defensive full back. Attacking wise Rafael is better but overall Valencia is much more reliable and that's why Rafael was sold. It's the simple fact. The fact that Rafael was more or less just as average at Lyon show we weren't missing anything.
We disagree on one main point.

I view Valencia solely as a right back now and think he had largely been good when played.

Rafael was very undependable with injuries and I think that played into him being sold. People blame the Leicester game,but forget that Rafael played the next three games against Everton, WHU and Chelsea . He got injured again and that was when Valencia got into the team and kept his spot.

From then on he missed a few months,came back for the Fa cup third round,got injured again and that was largely it.

Valencia really played well in his absence. He proved himself better than competition from McNair and Damian too.
Some decent points guys even if i don't agree with a lot of them. But lets just agree to disagree on Rafael and Valencia, as we've drifted way off topic.
 

POF

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It's also clear by watching them but since you seem not to have watched any other right back, then stats are useful.
You're right. I've watched football for 30+ years and Valencia is the only right back I have ever seen play.

There were people on this very forum wishing United would lose games to get rid of Van Gaal.

So it's not far fetched that some people would rather Valencia play poorly and get dropped for 'the greater good'

It's why when he plays well,some need to scrutinise him for one thing or another.
Wanting someone better in the team is a very different thing to wanting one of your own players to play badly. Valencia has had some very good games at right back. But he lacks the fundamentals for the position. It's the same situation with Blind at centre back.

No matter how many good games they play or how many times they get away with a mistake there is always the impression that when it really matters they will let you down and a mistake will be costly. Valencia did it in key games in the run in during the 14/15 season. The West Ham game in 15/16 season summed it up and was a fitting end for LVG.
 

FC Ronaldo

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That video isn't Phil Jones taking corners sadly :lol:
 

mitchmouse

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The Mail is saying:
  • Mats Hummels says he would have considered joining Manchester United over Bayern Munich if the Old Trafford outfit had qualified for next season's Champions League. Oh thanks so much Louis! grrrrr
 

Bruno8

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To be fair to LvG he always moaned that he never got most of the players he wanted and in that regard Ed needs to take a fair share of the blame.

The reason he said Darmian will be back up to Valencia was because Darmian was his 2nd choice on the list of RBs he wanted.

He did well with the young players and hypothetically I still believe he might have done well if he had played mostly raw young players because most of them seemed to understood how he wanted them to play and they did very well. I guess most of the academy players will miss him
 

kr0nix

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The Mail is saying:
  • Mats Hummels says he would have considered joining Manchester United over Bayern Munich if the Old Trafford outfit had qualified for next season's Champions League. Oh thanks so much Louis! grrrrr
Click bait, no way he would have picked United over Bayern. He is a Bayern fan and came through their academy.
 

togg

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I won't miss him, but I didn't dislike him as a person. He had such an entertaining slightly insane personality. Since he's left, the one thing I will thank him for is that so far he hasn't slagged off United (like many ex managers do) - unless someone has read or heard something else.
 

JPRouve

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To be fair to LvG he always moaned that he never got most of the players he wanted and in that regard Ed needs to take a fair share of the blame.

The reason he said Darmian will be back up to Valencia was because Darmian was his 2nd choice on the list of RBs he wanted.

He did well with the young players and hypothetically I still believe he might have done well if he had played mostly raw young players because most of them seemed to understood how he wanted them to play and they did very well. I guess most of the academy players will miss him
If the names dropped by LVG were his targets than he had a stupid list and he negotiated for Darmian for a long time, he was a first choice.
 

RedDevil@84

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The Mail is saying:
  • Mats Hummels says he would have considered joining Manchester United over Bayern Munich if the Old Trafford outfit had qualified for next season's Champions League. Oh thanks so much Louis! grrrrr
True. He would have considered and then rejected anyways.
 

YzWayne

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It has been 10 years and you guys are still keeping this thread alive? Do you know how hard it is to forget about him for the past decade?
 

Bojan11

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We should have signed Hummels last season rather than wasting time on Ramos.

But anyway we need to lock this thread and try to forget about LVG now. The nightmare is over.
 

Eric'sCollar

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Eric, good to hear you safe and well. Enjoyed you on the podcast and asked a while back if you were okay, glad to hear you are. Regarding the bold, I think a lot of the infrastructure will benefit. A lot of technical upgrades behind the scenes, I don't think much of what he was teaching us will remain however.
Cheers mate, yeh all is well. Agree with his ideas behind the scenes will be the main thing we benefit from.