He likes taking digs against us under the guise of neutrality.
That treble season...
- Thread starter TheReligion
- Start date
Oh right
yeah we'd have had another treble then.This is getting ridiculous now.
Going into the game, Juventus were the Serie A champions and runners up of the previous CL, were they not? They had made the final 3 consecutive years at that point.
Opposition fans trying to cheapen our run is mental.
Imagine joining an Arsenal forum to say that the invincibles aren't as good as Arsenal fans think. Or joining a Madrid forum to say that their 3 consecutive CLs weren't that impressive because they only won the league once in that time.
The cheek!
Going into the game, Juventus were the Serie A champions and runners up of the previous CL, were they not? They had made the final 3 consecutive years at that point.
Opposition fans trying to cheapen our run is mental.
Imagine joining an Arsenal forum to say that the invincibles aren't as good as Arsenal fans think. Or joining a Madrid forum to say that their 3 consecutive CLs weren't that impressive because they only won the league once in that time.
The cheek!
Just demonstrates how strong the Italian league was back then.
Cardiff
Really? Mate, I didn't know
Yeah, although they actually gave Wenger the trophy as a parting gift when he left the club. It remains to be seen whether the next team to go invincible also receives a gold trophy. I’d imagine they would
I'm not. Juventus didn't come close to challenging for the title. It was a team at the end of a cycle, with a manager that was leaving at the end of the season and then announced in December he was going to inter of all teams, who spent half the season feuding with his players and the other half(until he was sacked/resigned) feuding with management. The change in coach did improve them but never to a point where they were truly a great side. Or at least not on the level of the actual great sides in Italy that season
If you're counting that juventus side as a great team you should do the same for barcelona 07/08(same situation, actually better team), or real madrid or last season or this one, or barcelona of the last 2 seasons, etc...
Yeah, and real madrid was coming off 3 straight CL wins last season. Great side?
See above
Eeeeh. I actually think that was the season when the power started to shift from italy to spain. I'd say barcelona were probably better than any italian side that season. United obviously as well, and Bayern
Maybe lazio was at that level
No but yeah, maybe the top wasn't quite THE top but definitely the teams below(parma, fiorentina, roma, bologna, etc) were still the best around. Probably. I mean two teams in the UEFA semis and won both the UEFA and CWC(though this was lazio) so...
Was too young for 99 but 08 should have been a treble as well. Battered Portsmouth and got robbed of a clear penalty. I'm glad I caught the last 8 years of our success, doubt there'll be anything like SAF ever again.
Atkinson. Another stitch up in a long line of stitch ups from that cretin.
Interesting thing is that Hansen and McCarthy, both defenders think it's nailed on, whereas Shearer, a bellend, thinks it isn't.
Arsenal weren't actually as good as their fans reckon though, as they only won the league. I always wonder how you can claim to be "Invincible" when you've lost in 3 separate cups?
Would you prefer a league without losing a game, or 2-3 trophies? Not really a debate.
Although I get your point, you wouldn't sign up just to put them down.
08 showed winning a treble comes down to way more than just having the best team.
You need fate to fall your way, as in cups a decision, or a break of a fall can ruck you up, as seen in that Portsmouth game.
This is why winning a treble has only been done the once, and is an incredible achievement.
When you remember back to 99, and think of that late Arsenal pen in the FA cup, or being 2-0 down in Europe, or Basler (?) hitting the bar in the final when they were 1-0 up, to that ball not falling perfectly for Sheringham to swing in for the equaliser....
Just phew!
That Juventus side didn't lose a Cristiano Ronaldo though did they. They lost Del Piero to injury but thats nothing like losing CR7.
That juventus side also didn't have Ramos, Marcelo, Carvajal, Kroos, Benzema, Bale, Asensio and Isco though. Besides Davids and Zidane they didn't have all that much. And before you go about Zidane vs Modric(both won the ballon d'or midseason) i'll just mention now that Zidane had perhaps the one outright poor season of his career, too
Besides, yeah, it wasn't much different given Del Piero was their best player, talisman and top scorer...
Sure mate but they were still a top class side no matter what you say. I remember the 2 legs like it was yesterday and we were right up against it despite having a brilliant side ourselves.
I don't think they were brilliant at all - and that's based on watching them throughout the season, not just 2 games - but no matter, that's irrelevant to my point
We'll agree to disagree then.
They gave us hell of a game at Old Trafford and there was massive relief when Giggs got a late equalizer. We went 2-0 down there. They almost beat us and thats one of the great Ferguson teams.
And 10/11 barcelona beat arsenal 4-3 on aggregate and helped along by a ridiculous red card
That juventus side? Barely scraped by Olympiakos in the QF
They were by far the weakest team in the SF
So weak they were minutes away from another final.
And chelsea won it in 2012...
Oh, so that Chelsea side the previous 3 years had won it, and reach the other 2 finals as well had they?
Come on.
You're also missing the human element involved in the tie, for Utd and their fans that Juventus team was our nemesis in Europe. They meant a great deal to our players & Ferguson who'd tried so hard against them before but came up short. They were the yardstick in Europe.
And we're back to real madrid...or if you prefer, milan 07/08
I'm not, the human element as you put it was the only reason the tie was close. Because the teams were not. Ultimately there were 4 really great teams in CL that season. 3 made the SF, the other had the bad luck of being drawn into a group with 2 others
Dont get me started on this, the should be called the nearly invincibles, proper invincibles would have won every competition they were in.
Points can’t be taken out of context like this. Man City cheated to have a squad that was strong enough to battle in numerous competitions at once. They never had to field an understrength team in the league.
Liverpool have had to tank other competitions to fully focus. I am not going to be like others and play down their achievement. Liverpool are an impressive team, but the schedule and trophies of that United treble team put them ahead of any others.
I don't think anyone would disagree, but we didn't have financial fair play to worry about. We were a team with a diverse range of players from many nationalities and we could have afforded anybody who took our fancy. We should have made hay and won the next couple of champions league trophies. But no one would say the treble was anything but an amazing achievement.
Having been in their end v United at the Emirates for 6-7 of the last 8 years, i find it hilarious they throw off our 20 times, as being ancient history, then go back way further for their "invincible" season.
Out of all the big clubs I think i'd be most worried about being an Arsenal fan. I just can't see them getting back to the top.
I always felt they were punching above their weight under Wenger.......
They had a lot of very questionable decisions go their way that season.
We played by the rules as they were at the time, and have always played by them. We spent money that was ours to spend, but also had half a team full of local players and cheaper British/Irish buys.
We did it the right way.
So what you're saying is that United 08-11 were the best team ever because we won it in 08, in 09 we should have been facing Chelsea (if not for Uefa Spanish cheating) and in 11 we should have won it agin for the same Uefa Spanish preference?
You know what though, you're 11 European titles are bullshit when for 5 of them you played no one and for the last 3 under Zidane you were never actually the best side in the competition at all. So when push comes to shove Madrid have 'actually' won 3 european trophies.
Edit: you're first 5 CL wins were bullshit and there is every chance that if a certain plane crash never happened that Madrid would be below United for totals. But I guess the teams you beat back then were better than Inter and Juve in 99? If you want to take this course then the fact is most of Madrid's European titles are bullshit. And you all had the 'luck' of a apparently incredible team dying in an accident.
Or you know what you can stop claiming that teams with Zannetti, Ronaldo, Zidane and Davids were not 'great' teams and forget all this and accept that the United treble team were in fact incredible. If it makes you feel better then the Barca 11 team were the best club team ever, it may not be Madrid but at least it's Spanish. I'm sure most posters here will accept them as the best without needing to undermine them.
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That sure is a lot of words to counter a point i never made
Question: why is it that teams with zanetti, ronaldo, baggio or zidane, davids and del piero are great teams but teams with messi, griezmann and suarez or one with kroos, casemiro and hazard are not?
Matthaus too.
Yes I forgot Matthaus, although I'm confident Henderson would have made short work of him.
Inter were Inter in 99. They had lots of great players but were their usual underachieving, less than the sum of their parts selves. So fair enough beating them wasn't a huge achievement, they were merely good. Juventus were having a rough season and a lot of players were coming to the end of their career. But they'd sorted most of their problems by the time we played them and they were pretty bloody good in both legs. A team with their line up was always capable of clicking and performing when they needed to, they were quite like the recent Real team in that regard. Half their line up were World Cup finalists or Champions League winners. 'Only' beating Olympiakos is nothing to be sneezed at, Olympiakos were quite good that year, so were Dynamo Kiev. I suppose its easy to underrate them now but if you watched them at the time then you're just trolling really.
In terms of runs to the final its kind of hard to disregard a line up with Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Juventus and Inter Milan. Theres no era that would be straightforward or easy.
In terms of runs to the final its kind of hard to disregard a line up with Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Juventus and Inter Milan. Theres no era that would be straightforward or easy.
Because the former are better players? Bar Messi of course.
You see I don't think any of those teams are not great. However you are the one who thinks that teams like Inter and Juve weren't great and that it somehow takes away from United's achievement. So using that logic then every Madrid european win except 3 is not worth mentioning. Simple as that.
Or you know what I think is better? Both teams deserve big credit for what they achieved and it just so happens United 99 are by far the most successful English team ever who deserve credit as being the best until some other team achieves what they did. and the Madrid 3 in a row team were also excellent (are as this Liverpool team to a current lesser extent).
Ergo anyone can diminish any teams achievements with mostly worthless nuances.
Juventus did what Milan did in 07 and just put all their eggs in the CL basket. Anyone who was actually around then could tell you they were still the ones to beat.
Juventus played superbly in the first leg of that semi final at Old Trafford. They may have had a poor season overall but on their day they were still a major threat.
Look up the whole squads and if you think inter and juventus had the better players, fair enough. We disagree
I really, really don't
I think it was more a matter of you being poor, particularly the first half. Was similar in the second leg as well. You were terrified and both times it took time and desperation before you settled your nerves and started playing like yourselves(and both times you completely took over as soon as you did)
Anyways, sure, of course. Once again, irrelevant to my point though
The CL final result was a bit jammy though, if we are being honest.
Good side though and they beat some good teams during that CL run.
Good side though and they beat some good teams during that CL run.