The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
94,640
Location
Manchester
Can this nonsense please stop now?

We’re being outplayed by a Sheffield United team filled with Championship players as well as some who I believe have been there since they were in League 1 ffs.

People need to stop judging a manager on nothing more than the side he picks. If selecting the best match squad possible from the currently available players was all there was to being a manager then any idiot on here could do it.

Good managers make their teams better than the sum of their parts and they improve the players they work with. It’s what goes on between games that makes the difference, and we’re seeing nothing to suggest there is any kind of worthwhile work being done at Carrington right now.
 

Vidyoyo

Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
3,381
Does sometimes seem like Ole is incapable of getting the best out of the players, yes
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,488
Location
Somewhere out there
Fergie famously beat Arsenal with Rafael and O’Shea in CM. He won a league with Cleverley and Anderson and he outplayed Bayern with Gibson in CM.

Klopp has Henderson looking a top CM.

I could go on and on but the short answer is, yup you’re right.
 

vangagal

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
3,341
Location
Far away from home
People cant get their mind straight about Ole though. There will always be stupid and mind boggling excuses after excuses line up for him.
 

bleedred

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
5,267
Location
404
We could lose to colchester and people will be defending ole by saying many of our players won’t get into their squad.
 

Zlatattack

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
4,637
Yep. We've not got a team to win the league but we should be beating these lot.

Ole out.
 

TMDaines

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
3,894
I agree with this and this is why I don’t want to sack him and just replace him with Allegri or Pochettino. I’ve seen nothing to suggest either of these two can build a side and make a team better than the sum of their parts.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
29,777
People cant get their mind straight about Ole though. There will always be stupid and mind boggling excuses after excuses line up for him.
Tbf it was the same with Mourinho, Van Gaal and Moyes. The clubs fanbase have this weird fetish for whoever is sitting in the managers seat, irrespective of what they have achieved in the role.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
17,443
Location
The Mathews Bridge
It's nonsense.

There's not a single Sheffield United player would get into this United line up, even with the injuries we have. But they are well coached. That's the difference. I don't see Ole being able to make the team play like that.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,488
Location
Somewhere out there
People cant get their mind straight about Ole though. There will always be stupid and mind boggling excuses after excuses line up for him.
It’s not so much Ole that has the likes of @Wumminator doing mental gymnastics though, it’s more the fact that they love the idea of a real Manchester United philosophy which involves getting rid of mercenaries and bringing in hard-working players and Academy graduates. What these fans don’t understand though, is that there are proven managers like Poch who do that, exactly that, and have past pedigree to show they can do it, AND at the same time coach good football.
 

Figgins

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
141
there is absolutely no depth or balance to the squad. This is not Ole's fault.

We've had numerous managers, the shape of the squad hasn't been great.

Oh... wow Williams...

Oh.. wow Greenwood
 

criticalanalysis

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
2,055
This can be a closed thread really.

There's no 'argument' against it. It's a fact of all our of managers post Fergie tbh.
 

Sied

I..erm..love U2, baby?
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
9,429
Have we had a manager that has made the team better than the sum of its parts since SAF? Perhaps Mou the season we finished second?
 

RedRover

Full Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
8,203
We are a number of players away from competing with City or Liverpool but we should be better than this.

Ole has been out managed for most of the game today. Seems to set up negatively rather than go out to dictate the tempo of the game.
 

Massive Spanner

Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,558
Location
Tool shed
it's funny because the goals we've just scored have all basically come from bits of individual brilliance (3rd goal aside) yet we supposedly don't have good enough players.
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
94,640
Location
Manchester
it's funny because the goals we've just scored have all basically come from bits of individual brilliance (3rd goal aside) yet we supposedly don't have good enough players.
Yea, this sudden change will be used to defend him but not only is what you say true but we’re also on about plan D or E in this match by the time Williams bangs his goal in.

Over the moon with this comeback but it doesn’t change the fundamental facts.
 

morbidsaint

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
1,133
Location
Deansgate preaching scientology with Tom Cruise
it's funny because the goals we've just scored have all basically come from bits of individual brilliance (3rd goal aside) yet we supposedly don't have good enough players.
All the goals came from our attackers. I dear you to find anyone who has said that they are not good enough. Our midfielders however.. and defense too if you ask me, they need an upgrade. Midfield is our biggest weakness. Awful.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
21,182
How a thread can be made titled the way it is in direct response to a game where Ole is forced to play Fred and Andreas in midfield and question the validity of this so called myth is highly ironic
 

Acquire Me

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
5,419
Location
Norway
What a rubbish thread
It sure is. Jones should never have played, but that alone can not take away the fact about our thin midfield or lack of a proper midfield and the fact that we need more rebuilding. We are a very young team as well.

Right now I think we should stay behind Ole and our players. That said, Ole has to stop doing silly mistakes like playing Jones. Pereira as a deep midfielder was a huge gamble, but we are thin in midfield, so not the worst gamble imo.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,284
How a thread can be made titled the way it is in direct response to a game where Ole is forced to play Fred and Andreas in midfield and question the validity of this so called myth is highly ironic
Thread makes a good point. Fred and Pereira aren't ideal but against Sheffield United you don't need xavi or iniesta to have a plan
 

Rood

nostradamus like gloater
Scout
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
17,591
Location
@United_Hour
Can this nonsense please stop now?

We’re being outplayed by a Sheffield United team filled with Championship players as well as some who I believe have been there since they were in League 1 ffs.

People need to stop judging a manager on nothing more than the side he picks. If selecting the best match squad possible from the currently available players was all there was to being a manager then any idiot on here could do it.

Good managers make their teams better than the sum of their parts and they improve the players they work with. It’s what goes on between games that makes the difference, and we’re seeing nothing to suggest there is any kind of worthwhile work being done at Carrington right now.
I think the point is about depth of squad - our first XI is good enough but as soon as we get a couple of injuries in the same position then we are fecked (forwards earlier in season, midfield now)
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
21,182
Thread makes a good point. Fred and Pereira aren't ideal but against Sheffield United you don't need xavi or iniesta to have a plan
Sheffield United this season have drawn 2-2 after being 2-0 down away to Chelsea
Beat Arsenal 1-0
Drew with Spurs away after being 1-0 down

They're aren't mugs regardless of their new PL status
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,488
Location
Somewhere out there
How a thread can be made titled the way it is in direct response to a game where Ole is forced to play Fred and Andreas in midfield and question the validity of this so called myth is highly ironic
Yeah, a Brazilian international against Sheff United will never be enough. feck me, SAF would've played Jones and Fred in midfield and still made it a walk in the park.
 

Reiver

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
1,182
Location
Near Glasgow
He's a bang average manager, at best, who consistently gets the team performing at a level which is less than the sum of their parts. I'd back almost all of the other EPL managers to get more out the team than he does.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
29,098
Location
Egypt
How a thread can be made titled the way it is in direct response to a game where Ole is forced to play Fred and Andreas in midfield and question the validity of this so called myth is highly ironic
We were playing team full of Championship players. Do you think we don't have enough to compete with such level ?
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
179
I remember watching Brighton vs Tottenham earlier this season. Brighton outplayed Tottenham and passed around them. You could tell that some of the Brighton players were not quality enough because they'd misplace simple passes or have heavy touches but that didn't stop them. They didn't have barca quality players but you could see there was a style of play and they beat Tottenham with it.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
21,182
Yeah, a Brazilian international against Sheff United will never be enough. feck me, SAF would've played Jones and Fred in midfield and still made it a walk in the park.
Who's the Brazilian international? Fred? In the same way Phil Jones is an England international?
 

red thru&thru

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
4,485
A lot of the players who have left this season seem to have done well at their respective clubs. Ole isn't the man, nor were his 3 predecessors. The constant in all of these appointments? Ed Woodward.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,488
Location
Somewhere out there
We were playing team full of Championship players. Do you think we don't have enough to compete with such level ?
Only Scholes and KDB would be enough.

Let's ignore that Henderson and either Newcastle flop Wijnaldum or Milner have been shitting on teams for a couple of years now. Or ignore that SAF won a title with Cleverley and Anderson in CM.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,284
Sheffield United this season have drawn 2-2 after being 2-0 down away to Chelsea
Beat Arsenal 1-0
Drew with Spurs away after being 1-0 down

They're aren't mugs regardless of their new PL status
Exactly. If Sheffield can do all that without a world class midfield what are we crying about? We should at least be able to look like we have a plan
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
94,640
Location
Manchester
How a thread can be made titled the way it is in direct response to a game where Ole is forced to play Fred and Andreas in midfield and question the validity of this so called myth is highly ironic
Yea they stood no chance against that superstar midfield lineup of Sheffield United.
 

Godfather

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
19,186
Location
Austria
Sheffield United this season have drawn 2-2 after being 2-0 down away to Chelsea
Beat Arsenal 1-0
Drew with Spurs away after being 1-0 down

They're aren't mugs regardless of their new PL status
Yes because they have a great coach. Doesn't change the fact that none of their players would get into our XI. Probably not even today when they played us off the park for 70 mins.