The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We had Martial, James, Rashford today. All 3 would get into the Leicester 11. We bought their CB for 80 million. We bought AWB for 50. I mean do I need to go on? Our players are not bad our coaching is.

By the way Jose had 7 wins and 5 draws when he was sacked with a squad that completely downed tools. What's the excuse for Ole who was brought in to make difference.

Ole is doing it the United way. That’s why wummu and co. can excuse it whilst slating Mourinho for exactly the same thing.
We’re shite and Ole has made us worse.

 

[Paxi]

Look at how losing Laporte and Kompany has affected City this season, a squad far superior to our own and a manager considered by most to be a genius.

Players matter, and our squad has some glaring holes that are plain to see whenever any player is unavailable.

It has affected them but of course it would to a degree but they still beat Chelsea and are still going to finish comfortably in top 3. And no team won 3 on the trot since us so its incredibly difficult to do. What you don't see is them completely falling apart like we do.

 

[Leftback99]

We had Martial, James, Rashford today. All 3 would get into the Leicester 11. We bought their CB for 80 million. We bought AWB for 50. I mean do I need to go on? Our players are not bad our coaching is.

By the way Jose had 7 wins and 5 draws when he was sacked with a squad that completely downed tools. What's the excuse for Ole who was brought in to make difference.

Yes, go on? We paid £50m for AWB it doesn't mean he's better than Pereira for Leicester. Evans and Soyoncu are both better than Lindelof, Chilwell walks into our team and it's not even worth mentioning the midfield with Pogba injured all season. Vardy would start over any of our front 3.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fred and Pereira were our only midfield options since ... we got rid of Herrera.

And they weren’t, SAF and any good manager would’ve never in a million years started these two in CM away from home today. Likely it’d have been Jones or Tuanzebe in CDM instead of Andreas.

Top managers find solutions and Ole had the entire International break to coach it, instead it’s apparently ok that he just played these two and shrugged his shoulders.

 

[Paxi]

Ole is doing it the United way. That’s why wummu and co. can excuse it whilst slating Mourinho for exactly the same thing.
We’re shite and Ole has made us worse.

Exactly. I wasn't making excuses for Jose and wanted him gone too and I'm not making excuses for Ole either. I want what's best for the club and I don't want our standards dropping any further than they already have. If it means sacking managers until we get it right then so be it.

 

[Mr Smith]

I agree with this and this is why I don’t want to sack him and just replace him with Allegri or Pochettino. I’ve seen nothing to suggest either of these two can build a side and make a team better than the sum of their parts.

That's absolutely insane. Juve may be a top team now, but Allegri inherited Conte's ageing squad and completely overhauled it without ever missing a step in the league. As for Poch... to say he is unable to make a side better than the sum of their parts is just blind. People forget how dire Spurs were when he took over.

 

[Bilbo]

It has affected them but of course it would to a degree but they still beat Chelsea and are still going to finish comfortably in top 3. And no team won 3 on the trot since us so its incredibly difficult to do. What you don't see is them completely falling apart like we do.

That's not my point though. I'm not comparing us with them. Its apples and oranges right now. The point is that losing players affect teams, even the very best.

Losing Martial affected us. Losing Pogba still does. Losing McTominay affected us today. The step down from our best XI is quite vast.

We all agree that Pereira is not top 4 quality. Ditto Lingard, Mata, Fred. Two of those four were our only realistic midfield options today. This thread seems to be trying to say that this is of no influence at all on the type of football that we produce

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We all agree that Pereira is not top 4 quality. Ditto Lingard, Mata, Fred. Two of those four were our only realistic midfield options today. This thread seems to be trying to say that this is of no influence at all on the type of football that we produce

He had the entire international break to find a solution and he simply shrugged his shoulders and went with Andreas?! And you’re ok with that?
You think Pep, Klopp, Sir Alex, Poch would’ve only come up with that or ever imagined playing those two?
Come on man, likely any top manager would’ve gone with Axel or Jones.

 

[Paxi]

Yes, go on? We paid £50m for AWB it doesn't mean he's better than Pereira for Leicester. Evans and Soyoncu are both better than Lindelof, Chilwell walks into our team and it's not even worth mentioning the midfield with Pogba injured all season. Vardy would start over any of our front 3.

Agree on Chillwell whilst I think AWB is better and I'd argue that Lindelof is good defender who's a bit weak in the air. Again we signed their best CB for 80 million lets not forget. Yes their midfield is better, clearly, but don't tell me Ayoze Perez and Damari Gray and Vardy are far away ahead of Rashford, Martial and James. You've got tielemans, maddison, chillwell who improve us. I wouldn't take Vardy over Martial or Rashford but that's just me. Anyway if their first team is better it's not by much and Rodgers took over after Ole and has them performing much better so how you explain that? We've 4 wins in 12. 4 fecking wins -- it's unacceptable.

 

[OhGee]

there is absolutely no depth or balance to the squad. This is not Ole's fault.

This is where I disagree with you. He allowed Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez and Lukaku to go and only added James as forward/mid to the squad. According to Ole he has full control of transfers and given the Outs we’ve had and current players track records with injuries, he needs to step up and take the blame for the shambles our squad is in at the moment.
Can’t believe there are some out here that think he can make a good DoF....

 

[Leftback99]

Agree on Chillwell whilst I think AWB is better and I'd argue that Lindelof is good defender who's a bit weak in the air. Again we signed their best CB for 80 million lets not forget. Yes their midfield is better, clearly, but don't tell me Ayoze Perez and Damari Gray and Vardy are far away ahead of Rashford, Martial and James. You've got tielemans, maddison, chillwell who improve us. I wouldn't take Vardy over Martial or Rashford but that's just me. Anyway if their first team is better it's not by much and Rodgers took over after Ole and has them performing much better so how you explain that? We've 4 wins in 12. 4 fecking wins -- it's unacceptable.

Because we never have our first team available, and we have midweek games to deal with. Both of those make a big difference. If we had our first XI every week like Leicester do I'm sure it would be closer, whatever manager we had.

 

[Dec9003]

Hopefully this thread is right, and when we get a new manager we will shoot up the league.

 

[Paxi]

Because we never have our first team available, and we have midweek games to deal with. Both of those make a big difference. If we had our first XI every week like Leicester do I'm sure it would be closer, whatever manager we had.

That's part of the parcel though. I mean we're Man Utd, that's expected of us. Playing 2 games a week and having injuries. Most teams have them and they don't go through absolutely horrible form for 7-8 months.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I'm seeing people here say 'Ole had no choice but to play Fred and Pereira', who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.

 

[Paxi]

That's not my point though. I'm not comparing us with them. Its apples and oranges right now. The point is that losing players affect teams, even the very best.

Losing Martial affected us. Losing Pogba still does. Losing McTominay affected us today. The step down from our best XI is quite vast.

We all agree that Pereira is not top 4 quality. Ditto Lingard, Mata, Fred. Two of those four were our only realistic midfield options today. This thread seems to be trying to say that this is of no influence at all on the type of football that we produce

No I get that it affects the team but we've hardly seen any progress in terms of performances and results since Ole was made permanent. Yet we're still blaming the squad. It was Ole didn't replace Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku, Sanchez.

We had a perfect opportunity to sign tielemans this summer.

 

[Leftback99]

That's part of the parcel though. I mean we're Man Utd, that's expected of us. Playing 2 games a week and having injuries. Most teams have them and they don't go through absolutely horrible form for 7-8 months.

Saying "we're Man Utd" means nothing. This squad is incomparable with what we had in the past.

City have lost the title race because they've had injuries at centre back. If injuries have such an influence on the top team's results then they will on the team expected to finish around 6th when they miss key players.

 

[Paxi]

Saying "we're Man Utd" means nothing. This squad is incomparable with what we had in the past.

City have lost the title race because they've had injuries at centre back. If injuries have such an influence on the top team's results then they will on the team expected to finish around 6th when they miss key players.

They lost the title they didn't languish in 9th. You didn't answer my question, is 4 wins 12 acceptable? It wasn't last season where Jose had 7.

 

[Paxi]

They lost the title they didn't languish in 9th. You didn't answer my question, is 4 wins 12 acceptable? It wasn't last season where Jose had 7 wins 5 draws by the time he was sacked on December 18th.

 

[Leftback99]

They lost the title they didn't languish in 9th. You didn't answer my question, is 4 wins 12 acceptable? It wasn't last season where Jose had 7.

No it isn't acceptable but for me it's explainable mainly by the injury problems to key players.

I said this time last year I didn't think another manager would do better with this squad when most were saying otherwise. Results wise I was right.

 

[Suedesi]

Can we still blame it on downed tools?

What the feck is downed tools? We are talking about footballers not miners or oil rig workers.

 

[Paxi]

No it isn't acceptable but for me it's explainable mainly by the injury problems to key players.

I said this time last year I didn't think another manager would do better with this squad when most were saying otherwise. Results wise I was right.

Mourinho was doing better with the squad who were not playing for him at all. Pogba was abysmal. Martial fallen out with Jose and De Gea was having his worst season. We've not made any progress what so ever. I wanted Jose gone last year and I want Ole out too. Both made a meal of it.

 

[Mainoldo]

He doesn’t deserve good players. He’s not good enough to coach them. Let him go back to Norway. He won the lottery good on him.

 

[Tel074]

He had the entire international break to find a solution and he simply shrugged his shoulders and went with Andreas?! And you’re ok with that?
You think Pep, Klopp, Sir Alex, Poch would’ve only come up with that or ever imagined playing those two?
Come on man, likely any top manager would’ve gone with Axel or Jones.

A top manager would have went with Jones . Jesus wept

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

OP gets it.

OgS hasn’t improved players or playing style in 12 months yet some want him given another 6 months to at least end the season.

Above him the club is a joke so we need a manager that can form a team that is more than the sum of its parts; OgS hasn’t managed this team up.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Saying "we're Man Utd" means nothing. This squad is incomparable with what we had in the past.

City have lost the title race because they've had injuries at centre back. If injuries have such an influence on the top team's results then they will on the team expected to finish around 6th when they miss key players.

Are you saying injuries are to blame for this season?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

A top manager would have went with Jones . Jesus wept

Fergie used to so yeah, Jesus wept often, once even against Real Madrid in the Champions League.

And yeah, a top manager wouldn’t have been so fecking daft as to play Andreas and Fred, it’d have been Axel, Jones who have previous of playing the role or someone else more balanced for it, Garner was a better option. feck, I’d have told Carrick to polish his boots before playing an away game with that midfield.

Not a chance do Pep, SAF, Klopp, Mourinho start that midfield today, not on your life.

 

[charlenefan]

I'm seeing people here say 'Ole had no choice but to play Fred and Pereira', who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.

its easy to forget things that never happened

It wasn't Ole's decision for Herrera not to sign the contract that was offered to him

 

[Leftback99]

Are you saying injuries are to blame for this season?

I think we'd be doing better if we had our best XI like Leicester do every game yes. I still only expected 6th pre season with what we have.

 

[JPRouve]

Mourinho was doing better with the squad who were not playing for him at all. Pogba was abysmal. Martial fallen out with Jose and De Gea was having his worst season. We've not made any progress what so ever. I wanted Jose gone last year and I want Ole out too. Both made a meal of it.

That part isn't true and it's actually one of the reasons why were doing better.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm seeing people here say 'Ole had no choice but to play Fred and Pereira', who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.

Not to mention he also haves Matic and Garner. Players seem so poor because theyre not properly coached and the tactics were just plain wrong.

We may not have a squad to win the EPL, but damn we are not even discussing that, as if we don’t have an entire squad full of worldclass players then we cant expect anything else but utterly shit football.

 

[Paxi]

That part isn't true and it's actually one of the reasons why were doing better.

To be honest from what I remember he started playing very when ole came in or at least what it felt like at the time.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

its easy to forget things that never happened

It wasn't Ole's decision for Herrera not to sign the contract that was offered to him

Ole also said anyone that leaves would be replaced, which never happened...

 

[JPRouve]

To be honest from what I remember he started playing very when ole came in or at least what it felt like at the time.

Well, it's not what happened. He was pretty good for the most part of the first part of the season at the exception of a few games in particular two games after his injury in November; Southampton and the following league game. Your memory is based on the couple of weeks that preceded Mourinho's sacking. And it also applies to Martial who was mainly good during the first part of the season. The abysmal players were Matic, Lingard, Lukaku and to some extent De Gea.

 

[gerdm07]

I don't consider it a myth, I consider it a fact that we do not have the talent to challenge for top 4. We might have top 4 talent with absolutely no injuries and everyone is in good form but that's not things work. If Ole gets us to 5th or 6th this campaign and gets one or two good transfers in January, he should keep the job.

 

[charlenefan]

Ole also said anyone that leaves would be replaced, which never happened...

You're just going to ignore me calling you out on what you said previously then? Your response is to just bring up something different? Definition of throwing enough shit that some of it sticks. Yes Ole did say anyone who left would be replaced and he was wrong

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You're just going to ignore me calling you out on what you said previously then? Your response is to just bring up something different? Definition of throwing enough shit that some of it sticks. Yes Ole did say anyone who left would be replaced and he was wrong

EH? You’re confused here.

He said “who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.”

And that’s exactly what happened man. Replace them ffs.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

You're just going to ignore me calling you out on what you said previously then? Your response is to just bring up something different? Definition of throwing enough shit that some of it sticks. Yes Ole did say anyone who left would be replaced and he was wrong

What are you talking about? Read posts properly before spouting rubbish

 

[Skills]

Well, it's not what happened. He was pretty good for the most part of the first part of the season at the exception of a few games in particular two games after his injury in November; Southampton and the following league game. Your memory is based on the couple of weeks that preceded Mourinho's sacking. And it also applies to Martial who was mainly good during the first part of the season. The abysmal players were Matic, Lingard, Lukaku and to some extent De Gea.

Martial and Pogba pretty much saved him from getting sacked in October.

 

[tenpoless]

Some people are going out of their way to find anything that can help justify us drawing the game.

From Sheffield being a good team, Ole doesn't have enough players, etc etc. We're quickly becoming a Jose team, it's just that whenever We lose/draw it's another team's fault or <<put any reason other than the manager here>>.

 

[LingiBW]

I am of the view that Ole doesn't deserve better players. Sure you can't turn bad players into good ones, but after almost a year, if Ole was any good he'd have us play something that resembles good football only being held back by not having adequate quality.

As it stands, we look like a team that receives little coaching, so if he gets to spend on new players, how soon do those players turn to waste because they don't have proper guidance?

Unless a team is made of Messi and his clones, almost all footballers need to be given a helping hand. Thats why its a team sport, the sum of the team has to be better than the individuals and that only comes from the training ground.