The “Ole doesn’t have the players to work with” myth

[LingiBW]

I am of the view that Ole doesn't deserve better players. Sure you can't turn bad players into good ones, but after almost a year, if Ole was any good he'd have us play something that resembles good football only being held back by not having adequate quality.

As it stands, we look like a team that receives little coaching, so if he gets to spend on new players, how soon do those players turn to waste because they don't have proper guidance?

Unless a team is made of Messi and his clones, almost all footballers need to be given a helping hand. Thats why its a team sport, the sum of the team has to be better than the individuals and that only comes from the training ground.

 

[JPRouve]

Martial and Pogba pretty much saved him from getting sacked in October.

Strangely enough the good players were the ones that people like to dislike. Shaw, Pogba, Lindelof, Fellaini and Martial, I may be forgetting someone but these are the players that kept us in it, the rest were dreadful.

 

[0le]

I'm seeing people here say 'Ole had no choice but to play Fred and Pereira', who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.

If we are going to bust the myths, lets do it with Herrera. Ole did not allow Herrera to leave. The board offered a contract and he refused to sign it. If there is any blame to be had, it is with the board and the type of contract offered. That has nothing to do with Ole.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If we are going to bust the myths, lets do it with Herrera. Ole did not allow Herrera to leave. The board offered a contract and he refused to sign it. If there is any blame to be had, it is with the board and the type of contract offered. That has nothing to do with Ole.

Ole should have put a gun to his head.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

If we are going to bust the myths, lets do it with Herrera. Ole did not allow Herrera to leave. The board offered a contract and he refused to sign it. If there is any blame to be had, it is with the board and the type of contract offered. That has nothing to do with Ole.

What is it with Ole defenders here not reading posts? As I put in the post, Ole said players leaving would be replaced, WHICH HE NEVER DID.

 

[charlenefan]

EH? You’re confused here.

He said “who have conveniently forgot he allowed Herrera and Fellaini to leave without replacing him. So it is 100% his fault.”

And that’s exactly what happened man. Replace them ffs.

He personally didn't allow Herrera to leave though did he. It wasn't his choice for Herrera who was first choice under him to leave and I'm sure it wasn't his choice that when Herrera did leave he wasn't replaced

 

[shahzy]

The guy has no clue at how to manage. His team talks are probably more about running and passion than any actual advice on telling players where they need to be in a certain situation, what run they need to make etc. Im starting to think this club and the fanbase are ok with being the 5th-6th best team in the league. There is no hunger anymore

 

[Un4givableB]

Wilder's a much, much better manager than Solskjaer but that doesn't mean he's good enough. I mean Solskjaer won't get anywhere near another PL job once he's done here, and even Championship clubs went nowhere near him after his disastrous spell at Cardiff.

The perfect well-reasoned answer to a dumb 'question' but don't expect a response anytime soon he will need to rest his brain first, logic is like kryptonite to some of the fanboys.

 

[liamp]

What the feck is downed tools? We are talking about footballers not miners or oil rig workers.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He personally didn't allow Herrera to leave though did he. It wasn't his choice for Herrera who was first choice under him to leave and I'm sure it wasn't his choice that when Herrera did leave he wasn't replaced

You can absolutely say in English that you allowed something to happen without doing something, even if what was “allowed” was out of your hands.
And I don’t believe we couldn’t get a replacement in, I believe Ole wanted Longstaff only and put all of his eggs on him. Plenty of options were available.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Wilder's a much, much better manager than Solskjaer but that doesn't mean he's good enough. I mean Solskjaer won't get anywhere near another PL job once he's done here, and even Championship clubs went nowhere near him after his disastrous spell at Cardiff.

I thought this myth was dispelled? He turned down Villa who were in the PL.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/18170050

 

[Skills]

I thought this myth was dispelled? He turned down Villa who were in the PL.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/18170050

You know that's from 2012?

 

[Njord]

It's clear that Ole made mistakes today, espescially with the back three and Jones in. I think a lot of the top managers would have realised the mistake and made a change during the first half.

I think an important point when comparing Sheffield's players with ours is mentality. They are newly promoted, and have gotten good results in the PL. They play with confidence, and they have a total belief in their system. Our players are probably of higher quality, but a lot of them are not of high enough quality to play for United.

Players that play for top teams, where they don't really belong, have to live with the immense pressure, but without the confidence needed to deal with that pressure. These players have more quality than most players lowet down on the table, but I don't think it's an easy job to make them perform at their best level.

 

[Tyrion]

Tbf it was the same with Mourinho, Van Gaal and Moyes. The clubs fanbase have this weird fetish for whoever is sitting in the managers seat, irrespective of what they have achieved in the role.

There's a weird myth that SAF proved that managers deserve absolute power, unquestioning loyalty and no criticism and actually need it to succeed.

 

[momo83]

Ole should have put a gun to his head.

Or as manager known the intention of his player and planned accordingly to replace him.

 

[Skills]

There's a weird myth that SAF proved that managers deserve absolute power, unquestioning loyalty and no criticism and actually need it to succeed.

Even if he did, that was over 30 years ago. The idea that multibillion pound companies should continue to run like the small businesses they were 30 years ago is fecking ridiculous. The competition is fiercer, the stakes are much higher and if you don't adapt you sink into mediocrity.

 

[momo83]

Tbf it was the same with Mourinho, Van Gaal and Moyes. The clubs fanbase have this weird fetish for whoever is sitting in the managers seat, irrespective of what they have achieved in the role.

Moyes i knew he’d flop from day 1.

LVG. I supported until Feb in his last season. Then I became neither in or out, but realised for his style to work we’d need to get the right signings and didn’t have the right structure for that.

Mourinho after his second season I thought a great summer window and we could challenge City. After the window and the way he started talking I thought it end in tears and within two months into the season we’d know if he should go. Please don’t call me arrogant because I know more then most but I think it’s usually obvious when a manager is done.

Ole thought making him permanent was a huge mistake. Realised he’d be worse then Moyes in the summer. Genuinely needs to leave for the good of the club.

 

[redsunited]

Anyone that still supports this 'process' is deluded.

Yes, This process is called being average and accepting midtable mediocrity. Unfortunately some are deluded in thinking that this is rebuild. We are on in the way to finish with our lowest points total and position in premier league history. Soon Players who have ambitions will be asking to leave like Arsenal.

 

[Florida Man]

Didn't read all four pages but I'd like to point out that Ole set us up with a 5-3-2 with Jones. And then he replaced him with Lingard.

Also does he know how to set up something other than hitting on the counter? It's Sheffield United, not 2008 Barcelona. That's a bitch move, Ole.

 

[Florida Man]

Even if he did, that was over 30 years ago. The idea that multibillion pound companies should continue to run like the small businesses they were 30 years ago is fecking ridiculous. The competition is fiercer, the stakes are much higher and if you don't adapt you sink into mediocrity.

Don't you love how some fans love to invoke Fergie, a literal once in a lifetime manager in world football, as an argument for keeping Ole?

 

[The United]

What is it with Ole defenders here not reading posts? As I put in the post, Ole said players leaving would be replaced, WHICH HE NEVER DID.

Well, we needed to sign about 2 more in the summer and we didn't too. Like I said in other thread, it might not be totally on him regarding with the transfer. I doubt any manager would refuse to get more players. It is not like he got a lot of players and couldn't make them perform at all like the last 2 managers. He just does not have enough.

And, I am not defending him regarding with on pitch issues.

 

[el3mel]

Well, we needed to sign about 2 more in the summer and we didn't too. Like I said in other thread, it might not be totally on him regarding with the transfer. I doubt any manager would refuse to get more players. It is not like he got a lot of players and couldn't make them perform at all like the last 2 managers. He just does not have enough.

And, I am not defending him regarding with on pitch issues.

He got the same budget the previous 2 managers got in each summer. We had spent nearly 150m in each of LVG and Mourinho summer markets bar the last one. Ole spent 150m last summer as well. He just decided to splash the majority of them on one player.

 

[Florida Man]

He got the same budget the previous 2 managers got in each summer. We had spent nearly 150m in each of LVG and Mourinho summer markets bar the last one. Ole spent 150m last summer as well. He just decided to splash the majority of them on one player.

We kind of needed that one player though. And £150M in 2019 transfers is worth less than the same in 2014 and 2015.

 

[The United]

He got the same budget the previous 2 managers got in each summer. We had spent nearly 150m in each of LVG and Mourinho summer markets bar the last one. Ole spent 150m last summer as well. He just decided to splash the majority of them on one player.

Because the market value is the same for every year, right?

 

[el3mel]

Because the market value is the same for every year, right?

Well yes. Mourinho's second market we spent 70m on Lukaku, how is that any different from spending 80m on Maguire? Both didn't deserve it and were over priced because of the inflation.

Anyone expecting us to pay +200 in a market was honestly dreaming. Didn't happen for the previous managers and doubt will happen for the next manager either.

 

[Asger]

We are just on the position we should be in. Your squad looks average on paper and 5 place would be achievement.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Anyone expecting us to pay +200 in a market was honestly dreaming. Didn't happen for the previous managers and doubt will happen for the next manager either.

I actually agree with this, especially since we failed to make CL. It's true that with hindsight, we might've been better off keeping Smalling and spend the 80m elsewhere. But I don't think that Ole looked at the squad and thought, "nah we dont need another midfielder to replace Herrera, im sure Fred will come good and Mctominay will develop quickly". He simply prioritized CB over everything else. The money most likely wasn't there.

 

[Jibbs]

Ole is a United legend, a fighter, has this never say die spirit in him, hence his nick name, Baby face assassin. But, he is not a top manager, and I am afraid, he never will be. It is high time, if United board has a semblance of respect for United fans and winning heritage, they need to appoint a top manager, give him full authority and back him with money. And at the moment that available top manager is Pochettino, who also have all the credentials and character which fits the profile of United manager. But as things stand and as we know our executive, this would never happen.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

I do think he’s out of his depth but we let two midfielders leave, three are out injured and we have bought none. This is not a way a professional club of this stature should operate.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

This myth won't die, because Ole will constantly be excused on here by some.

He's the worst manager we've had post SAF, but people talk about him as if he's the best and he's got this masterplan that will come through after 'x amount' of time.

It's ludicrous.

@Skills said it well. Some on here just go overboard with backing the manager. I think that talk from SAF on backing the manager once he was stepping down, has really gone through people's head. People just seem desperate for another SAF to be our manager. Someone to be here for a very lengthy period of time.

A manager should be backed, but you can't back the manager when there's obvious signs of him failing at his job.

 

[SlothIsLove]

It's true that our squad quality is not good, probably not good enough for top 4 at the moment. It's partly his fault since we didn't sign any CM in the summer.
However, we were outplayed by many smaller teams. Our players looked clueless at times, they didn't know where to move, or where to pass. That's the sight of bad coaching, not bad players. Bad players will still know what to do in a functioning system, they just can't do complicated stuffs frequently.

 

[meamth]

I hate the myths that Fergie never had a boring game. He did have many, and in those games we sometimes lost, drew, or some sheer individual brilliance managed to win it.

 

[meamth]

What is it with Ole defenders here not reading posts? As I put in the post, Ole said players leaving would be replaced, WHICH HE NEVER DID.

Because this one time, we didn't sign players just because he is a cult FM favorite player like Rojo, Blind, Mikhitaryan or short term buys like Matic. Heck we didn't even go for big names like we previously did.

Ironically, his signings is the best thing to happen so far this season, and when he said he is going to replace it, he sure as hell going to replace them, but under some difficult circumstances, there are lot of stuffs we didn't know behind the scene.

The replacements will come, and that is depending on his time here.

 

[flappyjay]

Fergie famously beat Arsenal with Rafael and O’Shea in CM. He won a league with Cleverley and Anderson and he outplayed Bayern with Gibson in CM.

Klopp has Henderson looking a top CM.

I could go on and on but the short answer is, yup you’re right.

Myth, he didn't. We had to pull Scholes out of retirement

 

[flappyjay]

Can this nonsense please stop now?

We’re being outplayed by a Sheffield United team filled with Championship players as well as some who I believe have been there since they were in League 1 ffs.

People need to stop judging a manager on nothing more than the side he picks. If selecting the best match squad possible from the currently available players was all there was to being a manager then any idiot on here could do it.

Good managers make their teams better than the sum of their parts and they improve the players they work with. It’s what goes on between games that makes the difference, and we’re seeing nothing to suggest there is any kind of worthwhile work being done at Carrington right now.

It's not a myth. I guess just like in the summer people are still pretending that our defense was our biggest problem. Look at Andreas, fecking cleverly or Anderson are miles better than him. If he, Ole is at fault for the lack of midfield depth then yes the blame all lies on him.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We are worse than when Ole took over, I don't think is a good idea to give funds to a manager that clearly won’t last further than this season.

“Passion, get ManUtd, youngsters, etc” at the end of the day he is just all talk and no action. No manager should get a free pass in any club, specially in Manchester United.

 

[flappyjay]

This is where I disagree with you. He allowed Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez and Lukaku to go and only added James as forward/mid to the squad. According to Ole he has full control of transfers and given the Outs we’ve had and current players track records with injuries, he needs to step up and take the blame for the shambles our squad is in at the moment.
Can’t believe there are some out here that think he can make a good DoF....

He allowed Herrera to go despite all evidence pointing to the fact he was offered a contract. The whole situation was handled poorly but I wouldn't blame Ole for that, that one lies solely on whomever is responsible for extending contracts. Ole obviously knew we needed a midfielder hence the enquiry on Erickson. But we have to question whether potential deals didn't happen during the window or there was no attampts to sign anyone. We can't tell but I find hard to believe that he was happy with what he got in the window

 

[flappyjay]

Are you saying injuries are to blame for this season?

Erm? We really don't know how our season would be right now had Pogba and Martial stayed fit instead of missing months of football.

 

[flappyjay]

He got the same budget the previous 2 managers got in each summer. We had spent nearly 150m in each of LVG and Mourinho summer markets bar the last one. Ole spent 150m last summer as well. He just decided to splash the majority of them on one player.

Difference is those two didn't lose a bunch of starters. We also lost lost Herrera and Lukaku whether they were plans to replace them or not but I hardly believe a manager would refuse new signings

 

[flappyjay]

We had Martial, James, Rashford today. All 3 would get into the Leicester 11. We bought their CB for 80 million. We bought AWB for 50. I mean do I need to go on? Our players are not bad our coaching is.

By the way Jose had 7 wins and 5 draws when he was sacked with a squad that completely downed tools. What's the excuse for Ole who was brought in to make difference.

Would a midfield 3 of mctominay, Andreas and Fred start ahead of ndidi, Madison and Tieleman? You seem to forget the importance of the midfield my friend