The “Ole In” Brigade

[MikeKing]

Again completely ignoring the teams?
Like do some of you even realize what kind of team Ole has?

This isn't even a top 6 team on paper

11 players - U23 - A few from the academy. Something to be proud of, even City can't compare.
Top 6 Experienced "top players" in their position: Luke Shaw, Lindelof, Mata, Matic, Martial, Fred.
Playing instead of injuries: Lingard, Pereira, Jones

I get the frustration regarding us failing for many years hiring managers, then when a really important rebuild is needed we hire a manager without much on his CV. It is not comforting, but realistically... Looking at this squad you don't need comfort, you need patience. Everyone has been freaking out since the beginning of the season, game by game. People make up this Ole in vs Ole out to feel superior in their opinion to comfort themselves, nothing more. Nobody in here wants a manager that sucks, people need to stop convincing themselves of this.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

There is an entire thread on Lukaku’s unhappiness.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rom...d-how-it-would-feel-to-leave-the-club.449595/

So he was unhappy for two years and was still doing alright for us. Keeping him for one more season wouldn't have done much harm then. I'll say again, it's when he became second choice he started venting his frustration. And I'll say again, you do not sell your goalscorer without a solid replacement lined up. No matter what. Ole literally said he didn't get a striker because he did not like the ones available. Turns out the right fit was Haaland and look what happened after losing out on Haaland. No more talks about getting a striker. So are we waiting for another Haaland to emerge?

 

[11101]

Not really. I'll repeat, Klopp got Liverpool playing fanatastic attacking football and reaching a CL final in his first full season without that many additions. Rodgers has had a terrific season and improved Leicester hugely in his first full season without adding many players. Ole has spent 150 million and achieved our worst points tally in aeons. You're the one unable to look at the present clearly let alone the past.

As for Pep, he spent big but the level of his coaching regardless was incredible to get them to stroll to the title (with the points tally they got) in season 2. Again, adding a few players is different from needing a new team. And I believe he over spent anyway. Take out a few of those extra and pointless signings and they still win the league in 16/17 comfortably. Again, there's no point comparing Pep and Ole. One is one of the greats of his era. The other is Ole.

I'll show you the Liverpool team without Klopp's additions. See how far you think they'd get...the answer is not very far. 8th in the league, to be precise. Klopp has replaced 2 of the 3 attackers. 2 of the 3 midfielders, 4 of 4 defenders and 1 of 1 keeper. And one of those that kept his place is only there because Keita is injured. One player, one fecking player is still in the starting lineup! And you think Klopp coached the team he inherited to greatness?

Rodgers also replaced almost the entire midfield in his first window, the most crucial part of any team, and you can bet he will make further changes in the summer.

 

[Bojan11]

I'll show you the Liverpool team without Klopp's additions. See how far you think they'd get...the answer is not very far. 8th in the league, to be precise. Klopp has replaced 2 of the 3 attackers. 2 of the 3 midfielders, 4 of 4 defenders and 1 of 1 keeper. And one of those that kept his place is only there because Keita is injured. One player, one fecking player is still in the starting lineup! And you think Klopp coached the team he inherited to greatness?

Rodgers also replaced almost the entire midfield in his first window, the most crucial part of any team, and you can bet he will make further changes in the summer.

Ole replaced half the defence yet we can’t defend basic set pieces and worse than last season. So great improvement there.

 

[RollieOle]

Ole is and will always be a legend, fans turning on Ole is falling right into the Glazers hands. How would Pep get on with this squad?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ole replaced half the defence yet we can’t defend basic set pieces and worse than last season. So great improvement there.

 

[SmallCaine]

Yeah and look how the Fernandes transfer is going. Is that Ole's fault? Look how the Haaland transfer saga went. If you wanna blame someone blame Woodward.

Woodward is very much to blame but if you know a man to be incompetent may be don't risk losing a striker without a replacement lined up. Ole himself stated there were alternatives but he didn't want them pursued as they apparently weren't the right fit, which has left so threadbare and is in a way responsible for rashford's injury.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Again completely ignoring the teams?
Like do some of you even realize what kind of team Ole has?

This isn't even a top 6 team on paper

'kind of team Ole has' or more accurately 'kind of team Ole created'. The current squad is not the result of some random selection.

Ole is responsible for his roster changes, including spending so much money on AWB and Slabhead, and giving crazy wages to so many 'bad/decent' players.

We cant blame and sack Mourinho for not getting the best out of the players and months later blame the players for not being good enough. If the players are not good enough, why sack Mourinho (or any of the previous managers for that matter), after all they were doing much better than Ole is doing.

 

[Bobcat]

I’ve backed Ole all the way through. Today’s the first time I’ve wavered.

I still think anyone would struggle with an inept boardroom who isn’t providing a squad of acceptable quality and quantity, but the results just cannot continue to be this poor. I get that we’re without 3 of our most important players, including our two best by some distance, but a club this size should be able to see off the likes of Burnley with a few reserves in the side.

Poch would likely be good, but he’ll need backing in the market the same way Ole does. Until we can be sure he’ll get it, changing managers seems like the age old analogy of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

Ditto. Well, i have wavered before and honestly while it is cool to have a legend managing us its not really that important. What truly matters is how he does his job. On a structural level i think he has done a good job and has taken steps in the right direction. Results and the football on display leaves a lot to be desired though.

What i dont know though is how much of our bad football is a result of (lack of) coaching and (lack of motivation) and how much is simply lack of quality in our squad. And THAT i think is the big difference between the two camps. The way i see it there are a couple of options here
A: The squad (even considering injuries) is good enough to be safely in top 4, Ole and his coaches not good enough
B: The squad is not good enough and we are par for the course
C: Neither the squad not the coaching staff is good enough

I was/am at A, but is leaning more and more towards C. Its fecking grim. The only silver lining here though is that the anger towards Woodward and the Glazers really have picked up lately and they cant just throw Ole under the bus in the same fashion as they did LvG and Jose

 

[R'hllor]

What the hell happened with people " 8th 8th 8th" "2nd 2nd 2nd", LvG 2nd season we were on same points tally as City if i remember correctly just worse GD, imagine if he had better GD than City, people would pipe with " 4th 4th 4th".

Always was results over anything else regardless how but since JM, that wont work with us, results and league position has to be a product of performances and things going on the pitch and not how we had under JM and onward, where if we dont get a result, there is nothing there to lean on, where even after a win you feel like it was a defeat.

 

[El Zoido]

Ole has done quite a lot of good in my opinion, but as the cliche goes it’s a results business. We cannot keep meekly losing to every team below us. Where’s the fight? We need to go to war every time we step on the pitch, but instead it feels like they’re just going for a kick around the park with their mates, and if they lose, whatever. I’ve always been Ole in purely because any good alternative will struggle working under this regime too. But Ole’s record is absolutely woeful, you would have to imagine there’s a whole load of middle-tier managers who would do a lot better with this squad than Ole has.

 

[Jerome Holland]

Up and down left and right ole in ole out, we blame Ed the Glazers the board. I feel sorry for match day going supporters because you guys pay good money to watch bad rubbish.

So Our coach decided in 1 transfer window to let all our experienced players leave and not replace them. Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling for Pete's sake he couldn't even hold on to our club captain Ashley Young. The clear out has happened but has happened amateurish. We relying on Greenwood to come on and save us.

I can't see how everybody avoids the elephant in the room which is the coach that puts out the team.

 

[Dan600]

Keep seeing this argument that Ole’s fault we have such a thin squad, he let players leave, it’s all his fault, people need to realise this is far more sinister than we think. Ole wouldn’t have let this happen if he didn’t have his hands tied, numerous times he’s said if we let X go, we need to replace them, they can’t go without a replacement etc.

There is something far more worrying with regard to our transfer business...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ar-solskjaer-can-fulfil-ambitions-manchester/

The unfortunate thing is Ole is willing to help cover up what is going on and is being rather dishonest with what he wants. All the while Lukaku/Sanchez were still here he insisted we need replacements. Within a week of them leaving he changed and said we didn’t need to. If he was assuming he was getting the £70M from Lukaku to spend, only to be told, ‘no, the owners want that to pay bills, you can’t have it...’

 

[El Zoido]

Up and down left and right ole in ole out, we blame Ed the Glazers the board. I feel sorry for match day going supporters because you guys pay good money to watch bad rubbish.

So Our coach decided in 1 transfer window to let all our experienced players leave and not replace them. Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling for Pete's sake he couldn't even hold on to our club captain Ashley Young. The clear out has happened but has happened amateurish. We relying on Greenwood to come on and save us.

I can't see how everybody avoids the elephant in the room which is the coach that puts out the team.

His hands are tied I’m afraid. They want fans to blame Ole and unfortunately a lot of people are falling for it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That's BS though because our managers have clearly brought their own choices when it comes to recrutement and staff, they have all tried to build a team at their image and since none of them had experience at doing it or weren't good, they all failed. We can blame Woodward for hiring these managers or not creating a structure that would prevent managers from always trying to destroy what their predecessor did but we can't say that they hamstrung the managers.

Our managers shoot in their own feet and people blame someone else for not preventing it.

It's incredible that this pathetic defence of Woodward keeps being floated around. 4 managers into his reign of United decline and failure

 

[JPRouve]

It's incredible that this pathetic defence of Woodward keeps being floated around. 4 managers into his reign of United decline and failure

It's not a defense of Woodward, he picked them or was part of the group of people that picked them, that's his responsibility. All the managers are responsible for their own decisions and choices.

 

[b82REZ]

Again with Lukaku
Lukaku wanted to leave. Get this through your thick skulls

What about Pogba, Ronaldo, RvN....

 

[blazinRe'D']

'kind of team Ole has' or more accurately 'kind of team Ole created'. The current squad is not the result of some random selection.

Ole is responsible for his roster changes, including spending so much money on AWB and Slabhead, and giving crazy wages to so many 'bad/decent' players.

We cant blame and sack Mourinho for not getting the best out of the players and months later blame the players for not being good enough. If the players are not good enough, why sack Mourinho (or any of the previous managers for that matter), after all they were doing much better than Ole is doing.

Mourinho had a better squad with more depth, Sanchez and Martial on the bench for christ sakes and he was getting worse results than Ole at the tail end. He destroyed the dressing room picking fights with players in public and I think most of us could see there was nothing to build on which is why he got the sack.

And to your other point, the players are not good at all specifically our senior players, not for "months" but for years. That has to be down to the way we've recruited in the last 6-7 years. A rebuild from this shambled state will take more than a year or even 2 until the club can manage to get the right players to play a certain style. With this squad, with these players it don't matter if we had Pep, Poch or Houdini, you can't perform any magic with this team.

It is and it will get much worse before it gets any better, we need to manage our expectations and I understand our pride but until we have a squad we can be proud of there is no point to set expectations

 

[matt10000]

I think we should ask, how would Ole do at Barca or RM or even Pool?? Answer that and we know if he should stay or not.

Hypothetical question - unless he actually has those jobs you can't answer this question. In addition to this being good at one club does not mean you are a good fit at another club, take Brian Clough as an example.........so you can ask the question but you can't answer it.

 

[Godfather]

Hypothetical question - unless he actually has those jobs you can't answer this question. In addition to this being good at one club does not mean you are a good fit at another club, take Brian Clough as an example.........so you can ask the question but you can't answer it.

Being shit pretty much everywhere apart from one season in Norway is a pretty good indicator of how he'd do at other clubs no?

 

[matt10000]

And what does it say Ole's management qualities when he takes over a team and then apparently (as per his blind followers) has an even worse team at his disposal going into the first full season after spending 150 million to boot.

Would love to see the thread on premier league predictions to see whether people felt Chelsea and Leicester would finish above us this season. I bet everyone felt they had a better squad, miright?

......'blind followers' is just a failure to see the other sides argument. I can see both sides to the argument and just happen to disagree with you, not because I am a blind follower who thinks that Ole can do no wrong but because on balance I think he is who we need right now.

I get where you are coming from though as I have seen it on both sides of the argument on this forum. Some of the 'Ole in crowd' and some of the 'Ole Out crowd' are becoming tribal and religious about their views and are becoming 'blind followers' or 'blind Ole outers'!!

In any debate it is sometimes a good idea to pretend you are arguing for the other side of the argument it can be an eye opener - you won't necessarily change your mind but you will see things from a different angle.

 

[matt10000]

Being shit pretty much everywhere apart from one season in Norway is a pretty good indicator of how he'd do at other clubs no?

So in 6 seasons where Ole was solely in charge he won 2 league titles and runners up twice and you are using this as a reason to bash him!

I am not saying his time at Molde proves anything but those stats are pretty good and he won the Norwegian Football Cup.

Some managerial stats:

Manchester United Reserves
Premier Reserve League: 2009–10 - CHAMPIONS

Premier Reserve League North: 2009–10 CHAMPIONS

Lancashire Senior Cup: 2008–09 CHAMPIONS

Manchester Senior Cup: 2009 CHAMPIONS

Again doesn’t prove anything at Premier League Level but if you are going to use previous managerial stats to bash him I don’t see how you can apart from Cardiff.

His stats for Man Utd Reserves and Molde are pretty good.

 

[GifLord]

What about Pogba, Ronaldo, RvN....

wow you're really comparing Lukaku to these players?

 

[b82REZ]

wow you're really compared Lukaku to these players?

Yes, because all of the players you or I have mentioned have handed in transfer requests, yet some of them were made to stay longer than they have may have wished. Not that difficult, mate. Solksjaer could easily have told Lukaku he could only leave once we signed a replacement. Doesn't matter whether he liked that or not he had contract with us he had to honour.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Who would do better, seriously? People have short memories or are deliberately narrow sightedly avoiding the fact that none of those supposedly super talented managers (Pochettino, Pellegrini, Mourinho, Unai Emery etc) have done jack shit this season either with their more talented squads.

Solskjærs proven he can spot a player. Hanging his hat on Andreas and signing Jones on a new contract might have been a mistake but I don’t think anyone would begrudge them remaining as squad players (which they are, really, remembering our injury list).

I just wonder if the Glazers simply don’t want to release any more funds for signings as they are asset stripping to sell the club first.

 

[GazTheLegend]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

 

[GifLord]

Yes, because all of the players you or I have mentioned have handed in transfer requests, yet some of them were made to stay longer than they have may have wished. Not that difficult, mate. Solksjaer could easily have told Lukaku he could only leave once we signed a replacement. Doesn't matter whether he liked that or not he had contract with us he had to honour.

wait when did Pogba hand in a transfer request? van Nistelrooy wanted out because he got into an argument with Fergie about playing time. Ronaldo always wanted to go to Madrid
Also when you compare these players to someone like Lukaku who had 1 good month all season and cost us many games because of his poor finishing. not to mention we became a laughing stock because of his poor first touch

 

[Godfather]

So in 6 seasons where Ole was solely in charge he won 2 league titles and runners up twice and you are using this as a reason to bash him!

I am not saying his time at Molde proves anything but those stats are pretty good and he won the Norwegian Football Cup.

Some managerial stats:

Manchester United Reserves
Premier Reserve League: 2009–10 - CHAMPIONS

Premier Reserve League North: 2009–10 CHAMPIONS

Lancashire Senior Cup: 2008–09 CHAMPIONS

Manchester Senior Cup: 2009 CHAMPIONS

Again doesn’t prove anything at Premier League Level but if you are going to use previous managerial stats to bash him I don’t see how you can apart from Cardiff.

His stats for Man Utd Reserves and Molde are pretty good.

His time at Molde wasn't though. He took over a team that won the league and did it too once. That was 2012. 2013 he finished sixth. Then he went to Cardiff and got relegated. He went back to Molde in 2015 and finished sixth, fifth and after that twice second.

Not very impressive.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Any manager would struggle to have any kind of impact on the likes of Liverpool and Man City with this squad.

Its the worst group of players we have had in decades, literally 80% are not good enough for a club like United.

You need to look at who allowed this squad to assemble and the costs involved doing so.

Im not saying Ole is a world beater as a manager, but you cannot completely dismiss him as useless when he has this squad to choose from and injuries to the better players.

A lot of these players should be utterly ashamed of themselves, talk about stealing a living for years and just zero desire to actually improve the situation.

 

[Gehrman]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

You honestly can't think of a more talented managers in the world than Ole bar Klopp and Pep?

 

[Judas]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

Every other PL manager is better than Ole. I honestly think Steve Bruce is better.

 

[b82REZ]

wait when did Pogba hand in a transfer request? van Nistelrooy wanted out because he got into an argument with Fergie about playing time. Ronaldo always wanted to go to Madrid
Also when you compare these players to someone like Lukaku who had 1 good month all season and cost us many games because of his poor finishing. not to mention we became a laughing stock because of his poor first touch

I have no idea what your point is.

I'm not talking about Lukaku's ability or in anyway comparing his performances with those players, I'm just stating the fact that we have made players stay when they have made it clear they wanted to leave.

 

[Roboc7]

Surely everyone knows he’s finished now, he probably still makes it until end of season or until it’s mathematically over.

The rebuild/three year plan is dead, Ole is done.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

I’d be here all night if I was naming more talented managers than Solksjaer.

 

[Gehrman]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

Poch, Diego Simone, Erik ten Hag, Conte, Allegri, Marco Bielsa, Brendan Rodgers, Zinidine Zidane, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Didier dechamps, Luis Enrique, Pablo Machin, Joachim Löwe.

If you count managers who are still in the game but past their prime, then Mourinho, Wenger and Ancelotti.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Poch, Diego Simone, Erik ten Hag, Conte, Allegri, Marco Bielsa, Brendan Rodgers, Zinidine Zidane, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Didier dechamps, Luis Enrique, Pablo Machin, Joachim Löwe.

If you count managers who are still in the game but past their prime, then Mourinho, Wenger and Ancelotti.

My purpose to my question: put those names in our club and how well would they do with the team we have available to us right now? (Taking account the injuries we have too)

 

[GazTheLegend]

Marco Rose, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Allegri, Conte, Brentan, ZZ, Gallardo, should I go on?

How well would they do with our crop of players? You expect them to get Phil Jones and Jesse Lingard challenging Liverpool and City?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

And to the Ole out brigade who think he’s not a talented manager (I actually do), name someone you do think IS talented (outside of Pep and Klopp)

So many have already been named. I have a question for you. When it was clear that Mourinho's time was up, was Ole in your top 10 choices to replace him?

Oh, and here's another. What top team, besides us, would have appointed Ole as their manager?

 

[Gehrman]

My purpose to my question: put those names in our club and how well would they do with the team we have available to us right now? (Taking account the injuries we have too)

If they had been in the same time as Ole the squad might be different. It's hypothetical how they would perform if they swapped jobs with Ole at this moment. I believe they would have performed better if they were hired before the season as was intended as Ole was only supposed to be the interim manager.

 

[GazTheLegend]

So many have already been named. I have a question for you. When it was clear that Mourinho's time was up, was Ole in your top 10 choices to replace him?

Oh, and here's another. What top team, besides us, would have appointed Ole as their manager?

You ask me this question in the same season that Chelsea hired Lampard and Arsenal hired Arteta, so there’s two clubs to start you off.