The “Ole In” Brigade

[el3mel]

We agreed that Lukaku would have been a bench option under Ole, he would hardly be the saviour of our season regardless of our differing opinions on how he came to leave. What we do agree on is that he should have been replaced at least for the sake of squad depth and rotation.

At least 90% of people would refuse to agree to losing their no. 1 striker without having been assured the club would replace him. I find that being the far more likely scenario with Ole last summer also, say what you like but he's no fool.

Like I say transfers are not simple, the buying club were offering a very decent amount of money for Lukaku and that option would not have been there a year later. Conte was desperate for him and the time was right to sell on the basis we would find a replacement.

The fact you rely on press gossip to try to prove your point regarding who we were linked to shows the naivety in your opinion.

Sorry but you say any manager wouldn't have agreed on letting their number one striker leave without replacement after literally saying in the previous paragraph he would have been a bench option here under Ole? So he wasn't the number 1 striker for Ole then. Didn't I suggest for you to organize your points a little bit? You need to decide if he was our number 1 option in striker position or a bench option, because if he was a bench option then yes Ole wouldn't care that much about losing him and can just tell himself that Greenwood would take his spot on the bench instead. The 2 paragraphs are contradictory.

I'm relaying on press gossip, that's true....and what are you relaying for to point your opinion? Complete assumptions and theories with no evidence to support it.

 

[noodlehair]

You say that noods but the club pretty much ticked off a wishlist of managers favourites for 4 years for both LvG & Mourinho at a considerable cost to the club.

Well LVG made it pretty clear he was being given players he never asked for. After his first transfer window he immediately complained that the club had left the squad "too imbalanced". He moaned constantly about asking for creative players and not getting them. He would bring this up every single week.

Jose...well I think you have a point to an extent, but we signed him as a quick fix manager to bring short rather than long term improvement, and this is exactly what he did. Then we acted like it was some massive shock when this is what happened and started signing players he didn't want, not letting him manage his own squad, and also for some reason not sacking or replacing him for an entire half of a season after we pretty much deliberately made him hostile. How do you explain this? It's the club's money not Jose's, so you would expect them to have more of a clue than this when spending it, wouldn't you? It was never going to work for more than a couple of years.

 

[Møllemanden]

The glass is obviously not half empty, it's just empty.

I'm not sure you're getting my point.

 

[Escobar]

It's the opinion of a season ticket holder I attend matches and I know the mood around the place .. The time under Moyes was bloody shocking he probably had 11 better players than Ole does now

If it wasnt Ole they would say the same. Moyes was anyways hard to like, Ole has been a fan favorite since ever yet people hold his hand while drowning

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I don't think the Glazers are going anywhere but I don't think Woodward being shifted or at least having to take on board that he doesn't know what he's doing is out of the question.

It wont happen if you allow him the easy option of just repeating what he's done the last three times over again though. He'll take it. He'll sack Ole, replace him with Pochettino, and in a year or 2 years time we'll be having this debate again. I'd put money on it.

I think Woodward obviously wants to do well but I think he thinks like a lot of people on here. Just looks for the easy reactionary solution all the time, with the added bonus being that this allows him to not look at or lay the blame with himself. We know he doesn't like accepting fault due to his silly excuse making press releases every time he fecks something up, but the heat is really on him this time and the chance is there to force the club into going about things differently, so at least whoever the manager is might have a chance of things being different.

We can argue all day about how much blame Ole should take, or what manager would or wouldn't do a good job here, but what's beyond doubt at this point that Woodward isn't doing a good job, and whoever the manager is has to contend with that until it changes. It's a pretty big thing to contend with as Woodward is literally their boss and among other things is in charge of which players they sign/keep/move on, how much those players are paid, etc. It's quite a big deal. We don't have the second highest wage bill on the planet because four managers in a row wanted all our players to be overpaid/under motivated.

I get you but you didn't really answer the question or maybe your answer was too indirect or my question wasn't phrased well.

Everybody knows a DOF can fix this mess but what if we don't get one and we're stuck with Ed and the Glazers. So what do you think we should do regarding Ole if Ed and the Glazers stay? Stick with him? Sack him and bring in someone else?

 

[noodlehair]

I get you but you didn't really answer the question or maybe your answer was too indirect or my question wasn't phrased well.

Everybody knows a DOF can fix this mess but what if we don't get one and we're stuck with Ed and the Glazers. So what do you think we should do regarding Ole if Ed and the Glazers stay? Stick with him? Sack him and bring in someone else?

I'm not sure a DOF is the answer in itself. We need a set up that actually knows what it's doing, and someone who isn't an overpaid car salesman to set it up.

To answer your question...well I think I kind of have done in all my posts. If we're stuck with Woodward and the Glazers and the set up we currently have, I really don't think it makes much difference whether we sack Ole or not. It is impossible for him to succeed in the current circumstances. It will be impossible for anyone who replaces him...and again, pretty much any manager who might be able to at least fail in a more succesful way, simply wouldn't come here at the moment. That's why Ole is our manager in the first place.

 

[Un4givableB]

In March yeah. Ole took over in December, made it crystal clear Lukaku wasn’t his cup of tea from the off.

The truth is useless with these cultists, Ole decided that his 'style' of football meant the first choice forwards would be Rashford & Martial, which is fine but for all practical purposes that meant Lukaku had to find a new club.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I agree, but tell me how many of Jose's transfers + wages that were worth the money

Pogba?
Sanchez?
Baily?
Lindehof
Mhiki?
Zlatan - free agent
Fred?
Matic?
Dalot?
Lukkaku?

Don't you think this has an impact on our team that we've spent shitloads with getting little in return.

I've always questioned if Sanchez was actually Jose's signing, Fred too, but Mhiki aside, were the rest really flops? Ibra was stellar, Lukaku scored plenty, Lindelof is first choice CB, Matic was fine for a short time, Dalot is just a kid, Bailly has been injured most of the time, and Pogba is a top player, that is not in question, it's just not working out for him here.

We all knew this with Jose, so why start the job if you're not going to finish it, it's like him asking for older established players and then getting grumpy when it didn't happen was a surprise, did Woodward actually know what he was hiring?

And who's to say if he had got a CB what we might have achieved, but the team has been ripped up once again now, maybe with hindsight just getting Maguire a season earlier might have been a better and cheaper idea.

Things are infinitely worse now that much is clear.

 

[passing-wind]

The lengths Ole supporters will go to comfort themselves. First, it was 'we are rebuilding', now it's 'we are still fixing the mess that was left behind'.

The deluded part is that they'd trust a manager like Ole to oversee this 'rebuilding' and 'fixing the mess'.

It's embarrassing more than anything, first it start with "Ole needs a pre season", then it was "needs transfers" then it started culminating to Woodward, then it started ending up 4-5 years. Most of our fans sound exactly like Neville who would still have Moyes here if had the power to do so. It's just a magnitide of ineptitness.

 

[matt10000]

It's embarrassing more than anything, first it start with "Ole needs a pre season", then it was "needs transfers" then it started culminating to Woodward, then it started ending up 4-5 years. Most of our fans sound exactly like Neville who would still have Moyes here if had the power to do so. It's just a magnitide of ineptitness.

I happen to think 'Neville' knows a lot more about professional football than you and you are just passing wind.......

 

[passing-wind]

I happen to think 'Neville' knows a lot more about professional football than you and you are just passing wind.......

Well if your content with the likes of Moyes / Ole In charge ...... Enjoy

 

[cyril C]

I happen to think 'Neville' knows a lot more about professional football than you and you are just passing wind.......

So was Moyes, and a handful of managers sacked few months ago. Being a good or average professional footballer is 1 thing, understanding the professional football is another level, becoming a professional manager is another level let alone a decent one, being a turnaround / troubleshooting manager is not cup of tea to even top managers.

 

[Lost bear]

I wanted to post a link to Nick Cave’s song Lay me low, just could not execute it on my IPad. Sums up our situation in my op.

Yes- though I do love that song.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

... Everybody knows a DOF can fix this mess ...

I don't know that. Very goof DoF with enough control can fix it in a few years (1 or 2). Wrong DoF or one who does have enough control can fix nothing.

 

[el3mel]

I happen to think 'Neville' knows a lot more about professional football than you and you are just passing wind.......

Should we hire him as a manager then once Ole leaves?

 

[clarkydaz]

I happen to think 'Neville' knows a lot more about professional football than you and you are just passing wind.......

playing right back yes. Anything else is up for debate

 

[Strelok]

I'm not sure a DOF is the answer in itself. We need a set up that actually knows what it's doing, and someone who isn't an overpaid car salesman to set it up.

To answer your question...well I think I kind of have done in all my posts. If we're stuck with Woodward and the Glazers and the set up we currently have, I really don't think it makes much difference whether we sack Ole or not. It is impossible for him to succeed in the current circumstances. It will be impossible for anyone who replaces him...and again, pretty much any manager who might be able to at least fail in a more succesful way, simply wouldn't come here at the moment. That's why Ole is our manager in the first place.

A DoF and a fecking new board, that's the start. If you have a look at our current board you'd see fricking none of those have anything to do with football. It's like a board at Coca Cola, not some fecking football club.

Ole or whoever come in next gonna fail, miserably if the above doesn't change anytime soon. Klopp and Pep refused us, and it seems for good reasons.

 

[Drifter]

Don't get carried away today.

 

[Jagga7]

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[Lam]

6 year contract extension

 

[mu4c_20le]

Don't get carried away today.

Don't get carried away by the Ole In tide.

 

[Lennon7]

Don't get carried away today.

Yeah. It’ll be shite if they use this to not buy anyone either. Lingard somehow seen as good enough now

 

[Bobcat]

Don't get carried away today.

Dont think anyone should be carried away by beating Tranmere, but a big win is nice nonetheless. Especially on an awful pitch like that

 

[RUCK4444]

Nothing to get excited about beating Tranmere, but lots of positives on an awful pitch with lots of goals.

Always nice to see United play like this with a lot of kids on the pitch, it’s one of the things Ole has been great at.

 

[Random Task]

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It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.

 

[Lee565]

It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.

I find it a bit rich from those fans that now defend Ole and ask for patience for him to rebuild the team over the next 4 or 5 windows but showed nothing but a lack of patience and short sightedness in wanting Solskjear appointed full time manager off the back of a short spell of good results rather than being rational and patient and waiting to see how he was fairing at the end of the season before saying that Ole should be appointed our permanent manager.

 

[Irrational.]

It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.

Yep, the old adage is true: don’t make long term decisions on the back of short term emotion.

 

[Denis79]

Yep, the old adage is true: don’t make long term decisions on the back of short term emotion.

That's how I got all my kids...

 

[Irrational.]

That's how I got all my kids...

 

[Amadaeus]

I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.

 

[Mingus]

I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.

Interesting.

However it could also be argued that Wilder is doing better with a worse squad than Pochettino had when sacked for being 14th and, Champions League aside, having a poorer end to last season than Ole post December.
Also Wilder had the luxury of building his team relatively out of the public eye in the Championship and his credentials are in fact no better than Moyes at Everton at this point.
Sheffield United's squad has better balance than ours at the moment but our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so.

 

[sglowrider]

I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.

Maybe we should hire Wilder since he has achieved more silverware than Poch, who flatters to deceive.

 

[Beans]

Ole never should have been given the permanent job on anything but a yearly contact with a club option to renew. He's not like SAF, someone in the lower leagues that earned a chance at a top club. He was only ever supposed to be a caretaker manager. The amazing run lead to a snap decision that wasn't necessary to make.

I suspect the club didn't like the idea of Ole being on a short contract, to show confidence they have him a longer one, considering the cost is negligible for the income of the club. If they find the top class manager they're looking for they'll thank Ole for his service and happily buy out the remainder of his contact.

 

[RedBanker]

When the manager is himself a grandmaster in stealing a living from the club, let's not further bash players like Lingard or Jones.

 

[Cloud7]

our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so

I don’t understand this point. How can our objective be to be first in a few years, but not involve being 4th along the way? Surely there should be markers of progress along the way to the end point, no? A team isn’t going to magically jump from being 8th to winning the league, Leicester aside. A long term goal is achieved by attaining a series of shorter term goals that lead in the direction of that long term goal, you can’t say that our goal is to be good in a few years, but that doesn’t mean we need to show any signs of improvement right now.

 

[Amadaeus]

Interesting.

However it could also be argued that Wilder is doing better with a worse squad than Pochettino had when sacked for being 14th and, Champions League aside, having a poorer end to last season than Ole post December.
Also Wilder had the luxury of building his team relatively out of the public eye in the Championship and his credentials are in fact no better than Moyes at Everton at this point.
Sheffield United's squad has better balance than ours at the moment but our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so.

Wilder can only dream of accomplishing what Pochettino has done . Even though Wilder is doing great this season, his season can be described as an anomaly because he has not shown the consistency yet to do it over multiple seasons. Next season Sheffield could relegated, so I will wait until he has another season under his belt before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as one of the top two managers in football. Pochettino side was in a transitional period, where poor performances were natural due to the amazing cycle that just ended where he took a team with nothing spent to top four and a champion league final. I can say that Wilder in his career will never accomplish that .

Wilder squad doesn’t have a better balance. They are just better coached.I have never heard of a long term objective where we forgo short term plan and play terrible football. It is another excuse Ole in brigade use to cover for his incompetency. I don’t see Klopp or Pep do that in their path to glory. Pochettino had a long term objective at Spurs but his team were playing much better than Ole united and we could see something building there.it is easy to blood in youth and say that I have a long term objective, but if you don’thave a proper philosophy behind that plan, the result will be what we are currently seeing at United.

Maybe we should hire Wilder since he has achieved more silverware than Poch, who flatters to deceive.

. Maybe we should hire Ranieri or Di Matteo as well

 

[Sky1981]

I get you but you didn't really answer the question or maybe your answer was too indirect or my question wasn't phrased well.

Everybody knows a DOF can fix this mess but what if we don't get one and we're stuck with Ed and the Glazers. So what do you think we should do regarding Ole if Ed and the Glazers stay? Stick with him? Sack him and bring in someone else?

Replace DOF with :
1. A world class manager
2. A young modern Manager
3. A RW
4. A ball playing CB
5. A Transfer Window
6. A new Owner
7. Etc

 

[momo83]

In the interview on Sky this week, he says he went to Ole :

" I think I had to rediscover myself. Last year was difficult for me on the professional side, because stuff was not going how I wanted and I was not performing as well.

So I had to find it within myself what was lacking and came to the conclusion that it was time for me to change environment.

I made my decision around March, and I went to the manager's office and told him it was time for me to find something else.

I wasn't performing and I wasn't playing. I think it was better for both sides to go separate ways. I think I made the right decision. "

To me that sounds an awful lot like a player asking to leave, no? He wasn't performing so Ole wasn't playing him...

You do understand he was pushed out. Players get treated in a way where the professional pride makes them realise they are not wanted.

He was suddenly dropped when Ole came and it was done in the way that made it obvious he wasn’t part of Ole’s plans. It was last year people remember. In March when Ole became permanent manager is when he went to ask for it. Also fact that Ole so easily accepted it shows Ole wanted him out. Don’t give me that “not keeping players who don’t want to be here“ crap cos Pogba proves that theory wrong.

Only one player I know who was content to stay as a sub and even when his manager accepted an offer for him still stayed. That says a lot about that players lack of pride and integrity...when you consider reds like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt moved on once offers were accepted for them.

 

[Jerome Holland]

You do understand he was pushed out. Players get treated in a way where the professional pride makes them realise they are not wanted.

He was suddenly dropped when Ole came and it was done in the way that made it obvious he wasn’t part of Ole’s plans. It was last year people remember. In March when Ole became permanent manager is when he went to ask for it. Also fact that Ole so easily accepted it shows Ole wanted him out. Don’t give me that “not keeping players who don’t want to be here“ crap cos Pogba proves that theory wrong.

Only one player I know who was content to stay as a sub and even when his manager accepted an offer for him still stayed. That says a lot about that players lack of pride and integrity...when you consider reds like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt moved on once offers were accepted for them.

I think we fighting a losing battle trying to open peoples eyes. Lukaku for all his flaws is a 20 plus a season striker. It is the simple case of mismanagement. I watched Lukaku and Alexis last night they were terrific. He decided to start the new campaign with 2 attackers less, who does that? i just want Poch in to show our fan base what real coaching is.

 

[sglowrider]

. Maybe we should hire Ranieri or Di Matteo as well

Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.