The 4-4-2 Draft

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Pat_Mustard @Physiocrat @Edgar Allan Pillow @Šjor Bepo

Congratulations, you get the privilege of kicking off your own games. Kindly coordinate with your opponent and if it's not too much trouble, kick off 1 game each. Thanks.

 

[Physiocrat]

@BorisDeLeFora Fire over your tactics to me and I will start the game on Monday. I've sent my stuff to GSTQ so he can confirm I haven't changed anything after you send your stuff.

 

[Isotope]

This is so sad Draw. We just barely start building something nice.

Can we schedule it next week, @GodShaveTheQueen @Šjor Bepo @Himannv ?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This is so sad Draw. We just barely start building something nice.

You are joking right?

Can we schedule it next week, @GodShaveTheQueen @Šjor Bepo @Himannv ?

I am okay any day really, Sjor will be leading the debate this time. @Šjor Bepo , when do you want to play?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I am okay any day really, Sjor will be leading the debate this time. @Šjor Bepo , when do you want to play?

nice try, im fine whenever

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Any day other incl today is ok for me. Prefer no weekends. @General_Elegancia @Jim Beam

@General_Elegancia @Jim Beam

 

[General_Elegancia]

@General_Elegancia @Jim Beam

Let's go Tuesday, Edgar.

 

[Physiocrat]

@BorisDeLeFora Are you ready for tomorrow?

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Will have something over to you this afternoon @Physiocrat

 

[Physiocrat]

Will have something over to you this afternoon @Physiocrat

Cool

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

All games need to kick off worst case by Wednesday (1 day more than original deadline) - beyond which your opponent gets a bye under the @Stobzilla clause

 

[Physiocrat]

Mine and Boris' game is up

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/442-draft-r1-boris-vs-physio.468416/

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tactically, are 442 better with a 9.5 and 9, rather than with 2 #9s (even though they might be complete forwards)?

Replicating the dynamic and understanding between Cole and Yorke might be difficult than Bergkamp/Henry, Cantona/Hughes, or Raul/Morientes.

The distinction of role between having a dedicated SS and ST seems more prominent and the norm.

Thoughts?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Yorke was not a n9, easilly fits with other SSs

 

[Gio]

I can’t think of many effective partnerships of two pure no9s. Most are less than the sum of their parts.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Tactically, are 442 better with a 9.5 and 9, rather than with 2 #9s (even though they might be complete forwards)?

Replicating the dynamic and understanding between Cole and Yorke might be difficult than Bergkamp/Henry, Cantona/Hughes, or Raul/Morientes.

The distinction of role between having a dedicated SS and ST seems more prominent and the norm.

Thoughts?

I really like the idea of one dropping deeper to operate the space and pulling opposition defenders out of position. It's not necessary to be only a pure deep lying forward but another type of number 9 who can link the midfield and the attack brilliantly and has the ability to score when it's necessary ex. Kane,Suarez.

Tbf, deep lying forward/second striker or number 9 who can operate the space and create something for another poahcer/complete forward is an ideal pairing for me. 2#9s sometimes have a problem in creating chances, linking between midfield and attack and it would be a lot easier to defend, unless you have 2 excellent crossers from full-backs/wingers like Beckham, Arnold, Brehme,Kaltz or Dzajic.

 

[Physiocrat]

Tactically, are 442 better with a 9.5 and 9, rather than with 2 #9s (even though they might be complete forwards)?

Replicating the dynamic and understanding between Cole and Yorke might be difficult than Bergkamp/Henry, Cantona/Hughes, or Raul/Morientes.

The distinction of role between having a dedicated SS and ST seems more prominent and the norm.

Thoughts?

You could always go for a big man little man partnership. The big man is really a nine although you could say the little man is a bit less so more of a direct forward but Heskey Owen stylistically is quite different from Raul and Morientes

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My write up is already with GSTQ and harms.

Send yours to me @General_Elegancia and I'll kick start the match tomorrow.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Jim Beam

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Send me your write up whenever is convenient for you @Gio and I'll kick off the match tomorrow.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My write up is already with GSTQ and harms.

Send yours to me @General_Elegancia and I'll kick start the match tomorrow.

@General_Elegancia @Jim Beam

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Thanks @Pat_Mustard @Edgar Allan Pillow for setting up the games, we are on track to wrap things up for this round.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Thanks @Pat_Mustard @Edgar Allan Pillow for setting up the games, we are on track to wrap things up for this round.

No problem mate. There's been a good, brisk pace to this draft compared to the usual waiting around for the last matches to conclude.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And then there were 4 - Semifinal Reinforcements

The drafting order reverses again, so @Edgar Allan Pillow picks first.

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

EAP

D. Beckham

J. Stam

L. Suarez

M. Amoros

H. Stoichkov

P. Elkjaer

M. Overmars

P. Evra

Dunga

D. Zoff

A. Hansen

Raul

S. Kocsis

D. Edwards

Sjor/GSTQ

R. Ferdinand

F. Cannavaro

B. Vogts

A. Cabrini

B. Conti

L. Riva

Z. Boniek

I. Netto

B. Schuster

E. van der Sar

S. Mazzola

F. Albert

E. Davids

P. Scholes

BorisDeLeFora

R. Keane

R. Carlos

A. Shevchenko

M. Tardelli

R. Carvalho

R. Pires

S. Campbell

E. Gerets

G. Mendieta

D. Forlan

C. Vieri

Alisson

F. Redondo

T. Henry

Mustard

D. Law

B. Schweinsteiger

D. Alves

T. Silva

J. Barnes

S. Gerrard

C. Mozer

P. Schmeichel

K. Dalglish

J. Pirri

J. Camacho

J. Charles

B. Robson

P. McGrath

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Šjor Bepo @BorisDeLeFora @Pat_Mustard

 

[harms]

Tactically, are 442 better with a 9.5 and 9, rather than with 2 #9s (even though they might be complete forwards)?

Replicating the dynamic and understanding between Cole and Yorke might be difficult than Bergkamp/Henry, Cantona/Hughes, or Raul/Morientes.

The distinction of role between having a dedicated SS and ST seems more prominent and the norm.

Thoughts?

I think so.

EDIT: maybe it's best to wait until this draft is finished?

Speaking of, what are your all-time 4-4-2? Ideally with players who have experience in this formation + had their peak in similar roles (so all of top #10 are out, wingbacks, wing-forwards etc.). Sacchi's Milan & '99 United are probably the first 4-4-2 that come to mind when we think of that formation?

van Basten - Gullit
Giggs - Rijkaard - Scholes* - Figo
Maldini - Baresi - Kohler - Djalma
Yashin
​

Nedved — with Figo assuming a more playmaking role on the right I'd probably prefer Giggs for his sheer pace
Keane — even ahead of Matthäus or other b2b I think it's between him and Rijkaard for the more defensively sound one of the midfield two

* it was surprising even to me but I actually can't think of a better playmaker for this formation... there were obviously better playmakers but for this particular role? If we count their experience for (or either against) them, so Falcão had spend his whole career in different set ups, same is true for Xavi etc.

​

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@harms , Djalma and Maldini both?

 

[General_Elegancia]

I think so.

EDIT: maybe it's best to wait until this draft is finished?

Speaking of, what are your all-time 4-4-2? Ideally with players who have experience in this formation + had their peak in similar roles (so all of top #10 are out, wingbacks, wing-forwards etc.). Sacchi's Milan & '99 United are probably the first 4-4-2 that come to mind when we think of that formation?

van Basten - Gullit
Giggs - Rijkaard - Scholes* - Figo
Maldini - Baresi - Kohler - Djalma
Yashin
​

Nedved — with Figo assuming a more playmaking role on the right I'd probably prefer Giggs for his sheer pace
Keane — even ahead of Matthäus or other b2b I think it's between him and Rijkaard for the more defensively sound one of the midfield two

* it was surprising even to me but I actually can't think of a better playmaker for this formation... there were obviously better playmakers but for this particular role? If we count their experience for (or either against) them, so Falcão had spend his whole career in different set ups, same is true for Xavi etc.

​

I have no problem with this lineup, it’s absolutely perfect. That’s mean Maldini will do more offensive than Djalma Santos who for me was an upgrade on Tassotti. Maldini in Capello’s era was playing very offensive full-backs while Tassotti only moved forward sometimes when it was necessary. Young Maldini had a lot of weapons in offensive especially overlapping-run and he scored 4 goals in 1990/1991 Siri’s A and 3goals in 1991/1992.

The completeness of Maldini is the things that've made him being "the greatest lb of all time".

 

[harms]

@harms , Djalma and Maldini both?

I thought of pairing Maldini with Cafu as I usually do in those but figured that the latter won’t be at his absolute best behind Figo and that was one of the requirements. You can obviously sub Maldini for someone like Brehme but I’m not sure if there’s really a need for that — both Maldini and Djalma were excellent on the ball and would do what’s required of them at a very good level. While both wingers in this set up would still play out wide first and foremost as it’s required by the formation, so there’s no need for a consistent overlap — only an occasional one.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Cafu Nesta Baresi Maldini
Beckham Scholes Rijkaard Best
Gullit VanBasten​

Regarding the attack, you can easily(and maybe or probably you shpuld) replace it with Pele +1 so maybe Pele G.Muller up front

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

There's no practical reason for fielding Maldini or Djalma instead of Cafu and Cabrini. as the later would be an upgrade specifically for this formation.

If opposition field a 4-4-2, then team is more likely to see a crossing winger rather than a inverse/cutting in/dribbler. So a defensive/tucking in type fullback is more suitable for 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 imo.

There's nothing wrong with having them, just saying a balanced one man flank type fullbacks make the whole flank better.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Reinforcements @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Eye glasses @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Šjor Bepo]

 

[Pat_Mustard]

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Feck, I'm picking first?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

​

1​

2​

3​

4​

5​

6​

7​

8​

9​

10​

11​

12​

13​

14​

Gio

L. Figo

R. Krol

Rivaldo

D. Santos

G. Bergomi

R. Donadoni

D. Godin

Careca

D. Mackay

S. Maier

N. Gonçalves

J. Masopust

R. Giggs

P. Vieira

General/Jim

P. Breitner

V. Voronin

Z. Czibor

K-H. Forster

V. Van Dijk

J. Greaves

J.Johnstone

Junior

D. McGrain

A. Shearer

R. Dasayev

N. Hidegkuti

L.Suarez

A.Cole

Iso/Himannv

P. Nedved

D. Passarella

J. Tigana

P. Littbarski

M. Bossis

O. Ruggeri

K. Keegan

L. Yashin

M. Kempes

B. Bremner

A. Benarrivo

O. Sivori

M.Desailly

P. Lahm

Physiocrat

T. Finney

G. Batistuta

W. van Hanegem

L. Blanc

M. Tresor

M. Zagallo

Tostao

Zito

Marcelo

G. Banks

J. Armfield

T. Gemmell

U. Seeler

P. Vierchovod

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

Michael

F. Redondo

P. Vierchowod

P. McGrath

A. Spencer

M. Coluna

E. Francescoli

D. Irwin

J. Joya

Leandro

J. Abbadie

J. L. Chilavert

R. Dzodzuashvili

Stobzilla

M. Desailly

B. Robson

D. Edwards

R. Rivelino

H-P Briegel

A. Shesternyov

K. Hamrin

W. Rooney

C. Ferrara

K. Benzema

P. Shilton

S. McManaman

Zlatan

T. Henry

P. Vieira

N. Vidic

D. Bergkamp

G. Zambrotta

F. Hierro

C. Seedorf

C. Waddle

T. Hassler

S. Pierce

I. Casillas

S. Effenberg

Pnut

S. Eto'o

R. Giggs

S. Kocsis

S. Matthews

A. Cole

J. Bozsik

M. Neuer

Lucio

D. Deschamps

G. Neville

J. Terry

A. Vidal

Earvin Johnson

R. Lewandowski

A. Iniesta

F. Totti

C. Makelele

F. Ribery

A. Pirlo

R. Koeman

G. Buffon

J. Alba

TA. Arnold

R. Varane

R. Rensenbrink

paulscholes18

P. Scholes

M. Sammer

S. Ramos

C. Gentile

O. Blokhin

L. Suarez

G. Lato

G.Bale

T. Burgnich

KH. Schnellinger

P. Cech

E. Cantona

TheReligion/Skizzo

E. Davids

U. Seeler

L. Modric

B. Lizarazu

F. Gento

A. Costacurta

H.Chumpitaz

A. Robben

A. Del Piero

O. Kahn

M. Kaltz

L. Enrique

Lord Sinister

Jairzinho

P. Lahm

G. Souness

N. Kante

E. Hazard

A. Demyanenko

J. Popluhar

J. Rep

D. Drogba

E. Haaland

C. Puyol

P. Jennings

............

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

EAP

D. Beckham

J. Stam

L. Suarez

M. Amoros

H. Stoichkov

P. Elkjaer

M. Overmars

P. Evra

Dunga

D. Zoff

A. Hansen

Raul

S. Kocsis

D. Edwards

R. Giggs

Sjor/GSTQ

R. Ferdinand

F. Cannavaro

B. Vogts

A. Cabrini

B. Conti

L. Riva

Z. Boniek

I. Netto

B. Schuster

E. van der Sar

S. Mazzola

F. Albert

E. Davids

P. Scholes

BorisDeLeFora

R. Keane

R. Carlos

A. Shevchenko

M. Tardelli

R. Carvalho

R. Pires

S. Campbell

E. Gerets

G. Mendieta

D. Forlan

C. Vieri

Alisson

F. Redondo

T. Henry

Mustard

D. Law

B. Schweinsteiger

D. Alves

T. Silva

J. Barnes

S. Gerrard

C. Mozer

P. Schmeichel

K. Dalglish

J. Pirri

J. Camacho

J. Charles

B. Robson

P. McGrath

@Šjor Bepo @GodShaveTheQueen Nedved?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Why pick Nedved when you have Boniek?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Why pick Nedved when you have Boniek?