The 4-Way Draft - Finals: Tuppet vs 2mufc0

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

.......................................... TEAM TUPPET ...................................................................................... TEAM 2MUFC0 ........................................


TEAM TUPPET

Brazilian flair and attack battles European grit and hard work, unstoppable force meets immovable object seem apt here.

We are set up in a lop sided 4-3-3

Last reinforcement round was interesting with the choices it offered for my team. I thought of improving Gerson to a Falcao/Didi but with only Brazilians to select from we can not really match the B2B midfielders or defenders that 2mufc0 has on his disposal. So instead of playing that game, we would just add more to our attack, which is clearly our strength and route to win this game. Improving the attack of Pele-Zico-Garrincha is not easy though, which is why this area has been left untouched during previous reinforcements. However one area where a world class attacker can make a difference is number 9 position. Getting a proper number 9 would allow Pele more freedom and field him in his best role of Second Striker. With arguably the greatest number 9 of all time available the choice become a no brainer. It worked out well for us because 2mufc0 sport a brilliant defense and Ronaldo's brand of attacking with searing pace, dribbling and physicality could be the key to unlock that defense.

So in attack we have the forward duo of Ronaldo & Pele. Now to save the arguments in the game thread, Pele is not playing in the wings, he is playing as a free role second striker or left inside forward. He played this role for both Santos & Brazil in early 60s where he had the free role that links midfield to attack and this is arguably his peak role as well. The width on the left side mostly come from Nilton Santos, and with all of Ronaldo/Pele/Zico being comfortable in wide areas. The right side is more straightforward with Garrincha taking the traditional right winger role. He is probably the greatest winger of all time and I don't really need to sell him.

Zico is my primary playmaker and is the brain behind this attack. One of the side effects of putting Ronaldo with Pele up front is we lose the hard working influence of Rivelino in midfield and to compensate the work rate we replace Gerson with Dunga. Dunga-Zito partnership would be the shield in front of our back 4 and provide a solid base for our creative players to build upon. Now this is interesting because they both have mostly defensive functions and while they are no Rijkaard-Matthaus they are perfectly capable of performing this role as their 3 combined world cups shows. I hope we would be able to look beyond the mythical midfield battle and see that our midfields are created for different purposes and both suit the task very well.

Finally defense is same as last round, Nilton & Djalma are arguably the greatest fullback pair international football has ever seen and I have no doubt that they would be able to handle whatever 2mufc0 wingers throw at them. Nilton is more attacking and as mentioned before is the primary source of width on left side, to balance it Djalma would play defensive and stay behind to cover Nilton's run. In center midfield we have the stopper-ball playing duo of Luis Pereira & Domingos Da Guia. Da Guia is considered one of the greatest CB to come from South America and on par with likes of Passarella & Figueroa. In Luis Pereira he has an ideal partner who is aggresive & dominant in air. They are covered by greatest Brazilian GK and two times world cup winner Gilmar.

Its obvious that our strength lies in our attack and while we lack big names in defense, our defensive setup is with two fantastic defensive midfielders shielding our defense is pretty credible. Still I don't believe we would be able to keep 2mufc0's great team from scoring. In true Brazilian fashion our team would be looking to dominate the proceedings, attack from the front and rely on the world class front four to outscore the opposition.

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TEAM 2MUFCO

For this game i will be going for a traditional 4-5-1 formation with the team built around our best player Platini, the team has plenty of runners around him letting him play his game and stretching the opposition through their tireless work rate allowing him more space to exploit. The opposition has a fantastic array of attacking players but i believe i have defensive GOATS in Kahn, Maldini, Scirea, Kohler and Gentile i also have brought in the greatest DM Rijkaard into the team to deal with their threat. Also i believe my team will outwork his esp down the wings and is stronger in midfield and defence which would imo win the game. Going forward i have the skill, pace, penetration to score with one of the best strikers of all time spearheading the attack.

There is no denying Brazil through their attacking brand of football have been irresistible at times and have given the football world plenty of great memories through this style. However, they have often come unstuck playing against physical, hard working and defensively organised teams and my team can certainly be described as such and would give the opposition a very tough game.

Team overview:

GK: Oliver Kahn at his peak level he is probably around the top of the pile when it comes to GK's, winning the golden ball in WC2002 over the likes of R9, Rivaldo etc.
CB: Gaetano Scirea one of the best ball playing CB's off all time and one of Italy's finest.
CB: Jurgen Kohler considered by some Germany's best central defender of all time.
RCB/RB: Claudio Gentile physical and tough defender, known to make life hell for some of the best offensive players of all time, Gentile is more defensive minded this will allow more freedom for Maldini to get forward. But he will also support Nedved when the opportunity arises.
LB: Paolo Maldini considered as one of the greatest left backs of all time and will make life difficult for Garrincha.
B2B CM: Lothar Matthaus arguably the greatest CM of all time and probably the most complete, he will link defence with attack.
DM: Rijkaard arguably the best DM of all time, known for his tenacity and high work rate providing screening for the defence allowing Matthaus to get forward. Also very capable on the ball and will help control the midfield from deep and burst forward when the opportunity arises.
RW: Pavel Nedved on the left known for his incredible work rate combined with dribbling, shooting and passing going forward, will be the workhorse going up and down the right side
LW/LF: Zbigniew Boniek pacey and tricky forward and is famous for the great link up play he had with Platini which is recreated in this side, he will also have Maldini making overlapping runs supporting him.
AM: Platini who needs no introduction.
ST: Upfront i have one of the best no. 9's in the history of the game Marco van Basten capable of scoring impossible goals and an allround CF. He will have world class service from the Platini/Boniek/Nedved

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Tuppet @2mufc0 All the best!

 

[MJJ]

Don't think tuppets side has really improved that much while Rijkaard is a big improvement. Hard to beat that 2mufc0 side.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Don't think tuppets side has really improved that much while Rijkaard is a big improvement. Hard to beat that 2mufc0 side.

Agreed.

Tuppet's threat is mostly central and between Rijkaard/Matthaus and Maldini covering Garrncha, Gentile capable of tucking in, they have it covered. Garrincha will still be his main thread and Maldini will get beat for pace a couple of times at least.

Would have preferred more attacking fullbacks for 2mufc's side, but what they have now is tailored for the opposition.

 

[MJJ]

Agreed.

Tuppet's threat is mostly central and between Rijkaard/Matthaus and Maldini covering Garrncha, Gentile capable of tucking in, they have it covered. Garrincha will still be his main thread and Maldini will get beat for pace a couple of times at least.

Would have preferred more attacking fullbacks for 2mufc's side, but what they have now is tailored for the opposition.

Yeah cabrini would have fit the system better but the way he has set up deals with tuppets threats perfectly.

Maldini for garrincha and gentile tucking in to deal with that awkward Pele position.

 

[2mufc0]

Agreed.

Tuppet's threat is mostly central and between Rijkaard/Matthaus and Maldini covering Garrncha, Gentile capable of tucking in, they have it covered. Garrincha will still be his main thread and Maldini will get beat for pace a couple of times at least.

Would have preferred more attacking fullbacks for 2mufc's side, but what they have now is tailored for the opposition.

Fantastic team by @Tuppet.

I did consider getting Cafu but given the opposition attackers a more defensive player is suited. But agree in another game an attacking full back on the right would be a good fit. Though I do believe Maldini was good going forward too.

Also if Garrincha gets past Maldini he will have to deal with Kohler too.

 

[antohan]

I understand the choice of Maldini. What I could never understand was why Boniek was left and Nedved right and now even less so.

There's two roles where Boniek's magnificent engine will excel in:

1) Roaming across the frontline, probing and dragging defenders

2) The back and forth wide midfield role Nedved is performing

I'd swap them myself, particularly with no Cabrini on the left.

 

[antohan]

Great team by @Tuppet, but I can't see a Brazil All Stars beating a Europe-wide All Stars. Very clever choice of manager combo from @2mufc0.

 

[MJJ]

I understand the choice of Maldini. What I could never understand was why Boniek was left and Nedved right and now even less so.

There's two roles where Boniek's magnificent engine will excel in:

1) Roaming across the frontline, probing and dragging defenders

2) The back and forth wide midfield role Nedved is performing

I'd swap them myself, particularly with no Cabrini on the left.

Boniek played lw in his magnificent partnership with platini?

 

[Physiocrat]

This maybe more an aesthetic view but I would have preferred Zico in the Rivelino position to allow Pele to be more central and to plug what looks like a gaping hole on the right. Nedved with support from Matthaus could exploit it.

Originally I didn't like the Cabrini switch but it makes some sense against Garrincha. That said I'd prefer Maldini rather than Gentile against Pele

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Don't think tuppets side has really improved that much while Rijkaard is a big improvement. Hard to beat that 2mufc0 side.

Rijkaard was absolutely brilliant but I'm not sure that he's actually better than Desailly for the main task at hand here of tackling anything that moves in that DM zone. Desailly is as good as anyone in that regard, so it's a marginal upgrade at best for me. That defensive unit and midfield screen is still phenomenal though, although I'd back Pele to match Gentile in terms of the rough house stuff and impose his ability on top of that.

I'm not sure what to make of Tuppet's reinforcement. The teamsheet doesn't look as sexy and symmetrical as it did before, and there is an absence of orthodox width on the left, but I'm not sure that the team really suffers for it. Ronaldo was god-like picking up the ball in wide areas, and in any case you would expect much of Tuppet's attacking play to be filtered through Garrincha.

 

[Moby]

Don't think tuppets side has really improved that much while Rijkaard is a big improvement. Hard to beat that 2mufc0 side.

have you permanently taken the position of 2mufc0's AM

 

[antohan]

Boniek played lw in his magnificent partnership with platini?

No, he didn't. Cabrini occupied the outside left channel. Boniek roamed across the frontline. You could stick him anywhere you want on a teamsheet but his average position could be someplace else.

The RW role is more akin to his Poland performances (where he still roamed a fair bit, but in games requiring it he fulfilled that disciplined role tracking back).

 

[2mufc0]

No, he didn't. Cabrini occupied the outside left channel. Boniek roamed across the frontline. You could stick him anywhere you want on a teamsheet but his average position could be someplace else.

The RW role is more akin to his Poland performances (where he still roamed a fair bit, but in games requiring it he fulfilled that disciplined role tracking back).

Agree with what you are saying, but this is one of the reasons I ditched zona mista this game, as the lw plays as a second striker too. In this system I wanted my wingers to play like wingers and get crosses into MVB.

 

[antohan]

Agree with what you are saying, but this is one of the reasons I ditched zona mista this game, as the lw plays as a second striker too. In this system I wanted my wingers to play like wingers and get crosses into MVB.

I gathered, and it is exactly why I think they should be swapped.

Nedved will occupy the left and inside left channels more effectively than Boniek. You need a permanent presence there as it is Rijkaard's side. On the right you only need the outside right channel covered as Matthäus is bombing forward, Boniek can do that. He will occasionally drift infield but it's no biggie.

With Nedved-Matthäus on the right you are imbalancing your coverage and creative hubs. You had a similar issue going on in the first game except in that one you initially had nothing going on on the right, now it's the opposite.

 

[2mufc0]

I gathered, and it is exactly why I think they should be swapped.

Nedved will occupy the left and inside left channels more effectively than Boniek. You need a permanent presence there as it is Rijkaard's side. On the right you only need the outside right channel covered as Matthäus is bombing forward, Boniek can do that. He will occasionally drift infield but it's no biggie.

With Nedved-Matthäus on the right you are imbalancing your coverage and creative hubs. You had a similar issue going on in the first game except in that one you initially had nothing going on on the right, now it's the opposite.

Think they can both man each side well. While Matthaus is on the right at the same time Platini can drift left as well as central.

While Maldini is more adventurous than Gentile on the other side. It will balance out.

 

[Ecstatic]

Both teams reach the final as expected.

Mixed feelings. Will detail my vote later.

 

[antohan]

Think they can both man each side well. While Matthaus is on the right at the same time Platini can drift left as well as central.

While Maldini is more adventurous than Gentile on the other side. It will balance out.

Nothing to do with being able to do something but how best to use your resources.

In a nutshell, it's about presence vs. stealth. Matthäus has presence/control/dominance of his section of the pitch. That left side is crying out for something similar, which Nedved can provide (and, in doing so, curtail support for Garrincha).

Boniek was the complete opposite, he was about stealth. It was more about defences wondering "Where the feck is he? Where is he going to show up next?". Think Thomas Müller, would you charge him with running the entire outside left and inside left channels? No way, that's not his game, you would swap him with Nedved, no doubt.

Finally, because it's criminal not to mention it, you have the chamaleon, the master of both arts. Deep in midfield, orchestrating the transition, running at defences passing and moving... Platini's presence and dominance through the middle was undisputable, but what made him the exceptional goalscorer he was was switching to stealth mode as he arrived in the box.

That's what made Platini-Boniek so powerful. All eyes on Platini, then the creeping doubt "where the feck is the Pole? what is he up to?", and as you locate him and move to neutralise him you realise you've lost track of... oh shit!

Goal.

 

[MJJ]

have you permanently taken the position of 2mufc0's AM

Yes.

 

[MJJ]

No, he didn't. Cabrini occupied the outside left channel. Boniek roamed across the frontline. You could stick him anywhere you want on a teamsheet but his average position could be someplace else.

The RW role is more akin to his Poland performances (where he still roamed a fair bit, but in games requiring it he fulfilled that disciplined role tracking back).

Ah alright.

 

[MJJ]

Rijkaard was absolutely brilliant but I'm not sure that he's actually better than Desailly for the main task at hand here of tackling anything that moves in that DM zone. Desailly is as good as anyone in that regard, so it's a marginal upgrade at best for me. That defensive unit and midfield screen is still phenomenal though, although I'd back Pele to match Gentile in terms of the rough house stuff and impose his ability on top of that.

I'm not sure what to make of Tuppet's reinforcement. The teamsheet doesn't look as sexy and symmetrical as it did before, and there is an absence of orthodox width on the left, but I'm not sure that the team really suffers for it. Ronaldo was god-like picking up the ball in wide areas, and in any case you would expect much of Tuppet's attacking play to be filtered through Garrincha.

The way I see it is that Rijkaard is just as good on the defensive side as Desailly while being a big improvement on the offensive area of play.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @2mufc0

This maybe more an aesthetic view but I would have preferred Zico in the Rivelino position to allow Pele to be more central and to plug what looks like a gaping hole on the right. Nedved with support from Matthaus could exploit it.

Its not about their position on the pitch but their role. Zico is the better playmaker and a midfielder while Pele is the better second striker and so they are playing those roles.

 

[Tuppet]

Agreed.

Tuppet's threat is mostly central and between Rijkaard/Matthaus and Maldini covering Garrncha, Gentile capable of tucking in, they have it covered. Garrincha will still be his main thread and Maldini will get beat for pace a couple of times at least.

Would have preferred more attacking fullbacks for 2mufc's side, but what they have now is tailored for the opposition.

With Garrincha at one side and Nilton Santos on the other, and Pele / Ronaldo / Zico providing auxilary width, how is that threat mostly central. I mean how much width one can possibly want ?

 

[Charly]

Another great match and a fitting final. I think Tuppet has improved much better than 2mufc0 since I rate Deasailly and Rijkaard about same in that role. Ronaldo is a massive improvement for me. I've alway been in the camp that Pele was not a striker, he can play as one and be very good, but give him a partner and he would be godly. You can not get a better partner than Ronaldo. Its also important that against the incredible 2mufc0 defense you have another player who can change the game single handedly and someone who can give runaround to even Scirea, as he has done to the other elegant defenders in Maldini and Nesta.

I feels like I am always arguing against 2mufc0 and I don't want to sell his team short, his team is fantastic, and that midfield of his would really be a handful, both offensively and defensively. His team is just coming against some of my favorite forwards of all time and so my votes are going on his opposition.

Also with Garrincha and Nilton Santos and especially Ronaldo in the pitch, you guys can not be saying that Tuppet's team lack width ? If anything his team has probably more if Boniek is playing his zona mista role, while Nedved was no line hugging winger himself especially on the right side, since he was left footed. I agree with the poster above that Nedved and Boniek should have switched sides and the team would have faired better.

 

[idmanager]

Cabrini + Desaily was awesome.
Maldini + Rjkaard is better IMO. Brilliant job with the replacement.

 

[Physiocrat]

Best of luck @2mufc0

Its not about their position on the pitch but their role. Zico is the better playmaker and a midfielder while Pele is the better second striker and so they are playing those roles.

Zico can still playmake in a nominal attacking left midfielder role - he would just move centrally in possession and defend outwide out of possession. It would give more balance out of possession

 

[Pat_Mustard]

The way I see it is that Rijkaard is just as good on the defensive side as Desailly while being a big improvement on the offensive area of play.

It's a reasonable argument in general but in this match I think the offensive contribution of 2mufc's DM will be minimal. Between trying to keep a handle on Tuppet's atackers, dropping back to cover as Scirea steps up into midfield with the ball, and most likely deferring to Scirea, Matthaus and especially Platini in the build up, there's not a whole lot of scope for him to be expansive on the ball. Desailly can fulfil the remit perfectly. That's not to say that Rijkaard is a bad fit at all, just that I don't see him as a big upgrade here.

 

[2mufc0]

Another great match and a fitting final. I think Tuppet has improved much better than 2mufc0 since I rate Deasailly and Rijkaard about same in that role. Ronaldo is a massive improvement for me. I've alway been in the camp that Pele was not a striker, he can play as one and be very good, but give him a partner and he would be godly. You can not get a better partner than Ronaldo. Its also important that against the incredible 2mufc0 defense you have another player who can change the game single handedly and someone who can give runaround to even Scirea, as he has done to the other elegant defenders in Maldini and Nesta.

I feels like I am always arguing against 2mufc0 and I don't want to sell his team short, his team is fantastic, and that midfield of his would really be a handful, both offensively and defensively. His team is just coming against some of my favorite forwards of all time and so my votes are going on his opposition.

Also with Garrincha and Nilton Santos and especially Ronaldo in the pitch, you guys can not be saying that Tuppet's team lack width ? If anything his team has probably more if Boniek is playing his zona mista role, while Nedved was no line hugging winger himself especially on the right side, since he was left footed. I agree with the poster above that Nedved and Boniek should have switched sides and the team would have faired better.

Not playing zona mista this time round.

And Nedved was right footed. But easy to get that mistaken as he was one of the few truly two footed players.

 

[2mufc0]

Lot is being made out of his attack against mine but imo MvB and Platini are comparable to R9 and Zico. And Nedved is a balon winner. My team carries a lot of offensive threat too.

 

[antohan]

With Garrincha at one side and Nilton Santos on the other, and Pele / Ronaldo / Zico providing auxilary width, how is that threat mostly central. I mean how much width one can possibly want ?

You actually have more natural width than your oppo, quite clearly. It may have helped to have Ronaldo left of Pelé.

 

[Tuppet]

Zico can still playmake in a nominal attacking left midfielder role - he would just move centrally in possession and defend outwide out of possession. It would give more balance out of possession

I mean sure it can be done but seem unnecessary complicated to do it. Pele was left sided forward for both 1958 & 1962 and his club sides. Playing with an advanced playmaker in Didi behind him they almost took inside left / inside right positions. Here's the role Pele is playing for my team -

The big difference is that Nilton Santos is being asked to provide width on left side, which is mostly because 2mufc0's insane midfield I need more bodies there and Nilton not facing a winger/wingback combo he is basically battling out the left side of the pitch with Nedved which is a battle I am sure he can take. It wasn't very different in his performances either he was even a more cerebral attacker than Facchetti and definitely provide width there. We often remember his humiliation against Sir Stan but he was the main attacking force behind Brazilian attack and I think assisted the first goal. I actually see no reason for moving Zico out of central position, Nilton Santos is perfectly capable of manning that flank, while Zico provide such a threat to 2mufc0's midfield.

 

[MJJ]

Another great match and a fitting final. I think Tuppet has improved much better than 2mufc0 since I rate Deasailly and Rijkaard about same in that role. Ronaldo is a massive improvement for me. I've alway been in the camp that Pele was not a striker, he can play as one and be very good, but give him a partner and he would be godly. You can not get a better partner than Ronaldo. Its also important that against the incredible 2mufc0 defense you have another player who can change the game single handedly and someone who can give runaround to even Scirea, as he has done to the other elegant defenders in Maldini and Nesta.

I feels like I am always arguing against 2mufc0 and I don't want to sell his team short, his team is fantastic, and that midfield of his would really be a handful, both offensively and defensively. His team is just coming against some of my favorite forwards of all time and so my votes are going on his opposition.

Also with Garrincha and Nilton Santos and especially Ronaldo in the pitch, you guys can not be saying that Tuppet's team lack width ? If anything his team has probably more if Boniek is playing his zona mista role, while Nedved was no line hugging winger himself especially on the right side, since he was left footed. I agree with the poster above that Nedved and Boniek should have switched sides and the team would have faired better.

Easy there or @Moby will accuse you of being tuppets am

 

[Moby]

Easy there or @Moby will accuse you of being tuppets am

Rich coming from the guy who can't stop looking at the voters' 'demographics' and cooking up conspiracy theories while blatantly being the mouthpiece of his pakistani mate everytime he's involved in a game and pretending to be neutral.

 

[idmanager]

I understand the idea behind Nilton Santos providing the width while Pele plays inside left.
But as a general question, has Pele ever played that role without a left winger?
I mean was he more effective in the lefter channels or the central channels while being the inside left? A lot would depend on this if the formation is to work.
I have never seen Pele in such a role but then I am no expert on him.
The buck for the width discussion stops here for me personally. Playing Pele with a left wing back is not the same as playing him with a left winger from my little knowledge of the player.

 

[MJJ]

Rich coming from the guy who can't stop looking at the voters' 'demographics' and cooking up conspiracy theories while blatantly being the mouthpiece of his pakistani mate everytime he's involved in a game and pretending to be neutral.

somebody is butthurt. Did you losing hurt so much?

 

[Tuppet]

I understand the idea behind Nilton Santos providing the width while Pele plays inside left.
But as a general question, has Pele ever played that role without a left winger?
I mean was he more effective in the lefter channels or the central channels while being the inside left? A lot would depend on this if the formation is to work.
I have never seen Pele in such a role but then I am no expert on him.
The buck for the width discussion stops here for me personally. Playing Pele with a left wing back is not the same as playing him with a left winger from my little knowledge of the player.

Not exactly but thats mostly because he always played in a 4-2-4 / 4-2-3-1 . For what its worth the 1970 side actually had less width on left than my side here, Everaldo was a defensive fullback to balance Carlos Alberto while Rivelino was mostly playing tucked in. here is an Annah quote from an earlier draft game -

That is what I am on about. This isn't true at all if anything Rivaldo is better at providing width than Rivelino. I spent a lot of time watching his games in the '70 WC about a week and a half ago and he almost never provides any sort of width.

He had around one cross per game, and that was often a poor one too. He wasn't very comfortable out wide because he was notoriously slow in his style. Centrally he was magnificent and he had a great ability to share the burden of playmaking which not many playmakers can do. They want the ball themselves or they play bad, which wasn't the case for Rivelino.

There is no need for you to sell Rivelino as a left winger, he was almost a carbon copy of Kagawa in his ability to provide width - it is non-existent until you add a wing-back. He would love playing Krol free behind the defense etc, but he'd not challenge a wing-back and beat him on the outside and whip in a cross.

The width on left side mostly came from Pele-Tostao interplay and that is one of Pele's absolute best performance.

 

[Tuppet]

Also its all beside the point anyway, as Brazil 58-62 to 70s side showed you don't need the width on both sides especially with a winger as dominant as Garrincha. Having another world class winger on left side was mostly going to be futile because the attack is always going to start in right and central channels. That is exactly how 1970 Brazil worked with Carlos Alberto - Jairzinho wing being the major attacking route and the left side is mostly there to provide balance in midfield and defense. I am not claiming Pele is working left channels, I have mentioned it clearly that he is in a 2 forward partnership with Ronaldo up front. For better or for worse the left side width is going to come from Nilton Santos. One of the major reason I decided that is because he is not facing a GOAT caliber winger there. Nedved played everywhere but in his Ballon D'or winning season he was mostly AMC or left winger and being left footed he is going to tuck in more than attack my left side. And even if all that is wrong and he does attack Santos there its still a fair battle, one which could go either way.

The left wing position manpower is much more suitable to be spent in the midfield where Dunga and Zito form fantastic shield against Platini. Platini is the major source of creativity for team 2mufc0 here and if that source is cut then I can see them struggling a lot.

Dunga Silva achieved similar result against Baggio (who is not the same caliber but still in same league ) in world cup final


On the other hand I have in Pele/Zico/Garrincha 3 goats providing creativity and chances and that is almost impossible to shutdown.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Also its all beside the point anyway, as Brazil 58-62 to 70s side showed you don't need the width on both sides especially with a winger as dominant as Garrincha. Having another world class winger on left side was mostly going to be futile because the attack is always going to start in right and central channels. That is exactly how 1970 Brazil worked with Carlos Alberto - Jairzinho wing being the major attacking route and the left side is mostly there to provide balance in midfield and defense. I am not claiming Pele is working left channels, I have mentioned it clearly that he is in a 2 forward partnership with Ronaldo up front. For better or for worse the left side width is going to come from Nilton Santos. One of the major reason I decided that is because he is not facing a GOAT caliber winger there. Nedved played everywhere but in his Ballon D'or winning season he was mostly AMC or left winger and being left footed he is going to tuck in more than attack my left side. And even if all that is wrong and he does attack Santos there its still a fair battle, one which could go either way.

The left wing position manpower is much more suitable to be spent in the midfield where Dunga and Zito form fantastic shield against Platini. Platini is the major source of creativity for team 2mufc0 here and if that source is cut then I can see them struggling a lot.

Dunga Silva achieved similar result against Baggio (who is not the same caliber but still in same league ) in world cup final


On the other hand I have in Pele/Zico/Garrincha 3 goats providing creativity and chances and that is almost impossible to shutdown.

How fecking dare you? Baggio was carrying an injury BTW .

Joking aside, good post, particularly the point about another ball-hogging winger being a bit obsolete with Garrincha in the team.

 

[Physiocrat]

Also its all beside the point anyway, as Brazil 58-62 to 70s side showed you don't need the width on both sides especially with a winger as dominant as Garrincha.

Mario Zagallo says hi.

But my criticism of you is not that you have no width on the left but that it will likely lead to Pele having to drift too far left to optimise him or having a gaping hole out left out of possession putting Nedved and Matthaus on N.Santos.

This is essentially the same criticism I had with Engima's side. It's true a more orthodox winger than Nedved could do more damage but in finals there are very fine margins

 

[idmanager]

Thanks for the explanation.

Switched to @Tuppet.

See the below strategic weaknesses in both teams

1. Tuppet's attack is way too right-central minded and that is exactly where 2mufc0 would have wanted them to be considering his defence. Maldini+ a tucked in Gentile is absolutely golden against Garrincha and Pele in the channels they would be operating. Also, do feel Tuppet's formation picture and words differ w.r.t Pele's position. Probably I would have done the same considering how assymetric formations usually get treated I guess, but its surely misleading.

2. Have been voting for 2mufc0 in all the games till now. Absolutely love that midfield and defence. But Nedved on the right again does fall into Tuppet's hands. Not just because he can't fully capitalize on Nilton Santos being the only man on the flank in an attacking role, but because of the extra man Tuppet has in the midfield IMO.

In the end, decided to switch to the team which has the better chance of scoring a goal when compared front 4 by front 4. Did not compare the defences and midfields for that as both use them pretty differently and do not really win the tactical battle thoroughly. Pele+Ronaldo can't be bettered as a partnership.

Before the reinforcements, thought there was a good chance 2mufc0 would break the Platini-Boniek couplet and go with Nedved and Platini both central with another attacking fullback (replacement) with Cabrini. The centre of that brazil defence and defensive midfield is where the biggest chance of leaking goals lies. Can be beaten with numbers IMO. While an extra defender is always welcome against that Brazil attack.

Worthy of a final game definitely.