The 4-Way Draft - Finals: Tuppet vs 2mufc0

[Tuppet]

Squeaky bum time now, Can Garrincha get this done and win the trophy for Brazilians once again. He and Pele have never lost a game in 40 appearances together. Garrincha himself did not lose a single game until his very last one for Brazil. That is 1 defeat in 60 appearances, he was magic.

In his best performance at world cup 1962, Garrincha scored two goals (a rare header goal and the other after a long distance shot) and took the free-kick that resulted in Vavá’s goal, helping Brazil to knock out the powerful English team.
Concerning that game, the English player Johnny Haynes said: “How do you set about stopping the unstoppable?”.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Squeeky bum time! So close.

 

[mariner85]

Lot is being made out of his attack against mine but imo MvB and Platini are comparable to R9 and Zico. And Nedved is a balon winner. My team carries a lot of offensive threat too.

Tuppet has 2 of the top 5 attacking players ever in his team. Add garrinncha to that team and you can call that attack insane.
There is really no comparison.
Whether it's maintaining possession/counter attack direct approach, that brazil will outscore by atleast two.

 

[2mufc0]

Just woke up that scoreline tuppet has sold his team well.

Tuppet has 2 of the top 5 attacking players ever in his team. Add garrinncha to that team and you can call that attack insane.
There is really no comparison.
Whether it's maintaining possession/counter attack direct approach, that brazil will outscore by atleast two.

But you have to put that into context and the defenders he is facing, I also have defenders on the top 5 of all time. And there is a contest, MvB is one of the best strikers of all time and Platini one of the best no. 10s.

All the discussion has been around his attack which has ignored the other areas of his team, in midfield Rijkaard /Matthaus is no comparison with Dunga/Zito, and not to forget Scirea stepping into midfield. Then you have his central defenders which don't belong in an all time context. I'm certain we will score a fair few too.

 

[2mufc0]

Think I need to throw some videos in of some of my key attackers who will cause problems against those central midfielders and center backs:

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

At the end of the day, both sides have great players throughout and GOATs littered about... well done both.

I doubt videos/comments are going to make a massive difference (unlike a lot of drafts). People will know the players and it'll come down to personal tastes, preferences and fave players.

No one wants to lose but whoever loses, will have lost to a GREAT team.

 

[Tuppet]

Just woke up that scoreline tuppet has sold his team well.



But you have to put that into context and the defenders he is facing, I also have defenders on the top 5 of all time. And there is a contest, MvB is one of the best strikers of all time and Platini one of the best no. 10s.

All the discussion has been around his attack but which has ignored the other areas of his team, in midfield Rijkaard /Matthaus is no comparison with Dunga/Zito, and not to forget Scirea stepping into midfield. Then you have his central defenders which don't belong in an all time context. I'm certain we will score a fair few too.

To be fair 2 of my defenders are all time greatest in there positions in Nilton Santos and Djalma Santos. Then you have Domingos Da guia, while its hard to really assess his quality due to lack of footage, he is often considered best south american defenders along with Passarella, Figueroa and Nasazzi. So the gap does not seem too big with Scirea and Da Guia, I don't mean to say they are of same caliber as we don't really know but the Da Guia's reputation and trophy cabinet (Best player in Copa America 45, Part of all star team in World cup 38 and winner of countless league titles all over south america) definitely suggest that he thereabouts. Which leaves Kohler as a superior defender to Pereira which is fair enough, but hardly groundbreaking defensive difference there.

In midfield you have better all round midfielders but for doing a purely defensive job that my midfield is instructed to do its perfectly fine. You don't need shiny water carriers, Players like Makelele, Deschamps all do fine job when all they have to do is provide a platform for attacking player to shine. Our own Matic is showing that for United these days. And Zito is a 2 time world cup winner playing as almost one man midfield, Dunga was part of a brilliant midfield partnership that won another World cup for Brazil. The attack deferential on the other hand is just too big in my opinion, you really need another GOAT attacker there to make it more balanced, a Maradona or Messi is required here to counter the threat of Pele/Garrincha/Zico/Ronaldo.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Imagine the WCs, Player Awards, etc on the pitch??

 

[Gio]

Like Pele's inside-left position, reflecting his Santos role and the overall penetration of that attack is off the charts. Some defensive unit 2mufc has built and relatively speaking Van Basten should face an easier time of it than Ronaldo. Kudos also for allowing the R1 upgrade when it hasn't really offered much benefit.

 

[antohan]

Been sorely tempted to switch votes since last night. Heart goes with Zico and Ronaldo tearing it up along with Pelé and Garrincha (just writing it is insane). Head says the stronger spine and defence has a knack of winning these games.

But then, nobody ever faced that attack. And Brazil never lost with just two of them on the pitch.

 

[mariner85]

Just woke up that scoreline tuppet has sold his team well.



But you have to put that into context and the defenders he is facing, I also have defenders on the top 5 of all time. And there is a contest, MvB is one of the best strikers of all time and Platini one of the best no. 10s.

All the discussion has been around his attack but which has ignored the other areas of his team, in midfield Rijkaard /Matthaus is no comparison with Dunga/Zito, and not to forget Scirea stepping into midfield. Then you have his central defenders which don't belong in an all time context. I'm certain we will score a fair few too.

But even in that match up your midfield is not insanely better than tuppet's nor is your defence. Dunga/Ziti/Zico is almost as good as a midfield as yours. Although regarded by many as great CBs I can't commend too much about the tuppet's CBs. In my eyes full backs are quite even.
The attacking pressure that brazil team can put on all your players will not let them be on their frontfoot.
All three of Pele, Garrinncha and Ronaldo are capable of dropping back deep playmaking excellently. Three of them complement each other really well.

 

[harms]

Dunga/Ziti/Zico is almost as good as a midfield as yours.

No.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Edgar Allan Pillow score spoilers

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow score spoilers

I didn't know this was a thing Deleted anyways.

 

[2mufc0]

I didn't know this was a thing Deleted anyways.

Same. There's been references to score all over the thread.

 

[Enigma_87]

No.

yeah 2mufc0 CM and CB's are definitely better.

 

[Enigma_87]

I didn't know this was a thing Deleted anyways.

Same. There's been references to score all over the thread.

There shouldn't IMO.That's the reason why we went with hidden scores at the first place.

 

[antohan]

No.

For the job at hand it probably is.

I'm struggling with the notion one side can only score two goals tops, while if the other manages to score two they may as well score 4 or 5. They are certainly capable of doing it.

The other one is of course which has more merit: building such a great Brazil team (certain positions were always going to be comparatively underwhelming) or picking such a great pool condition.

I don't see how Tuppet could have done any better, bar getting Falcao instead of Dunga. On the other hand, I've settled for Boniek being fine (not in the supposed winger role but in the support striker role he will efectively play in what can only be a soak and hit back dynamic) but think Santos will have the better of Nedved in that bizarre role he has been assigned. You may as well have Camoranesi there.

 

[2mufc0]

There shouldn't IMO.That's the reason why we went with hidden scores at the first place.

Yeah don't disagree.

 

[2mufc0]

One last bump for anyone interested in voting in the match.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Congrats @Tuppet Pele and R9 prove to be the dynamic superhero footballer duo!

Hard luck @2mufc0 You had an amazing team and it was down to intangibles and personal preferences, imo.

 

[harms]

For the job at hand it probably is.

Taking aside their defensive duties, Rijkaard and Matthäus are very capable of deciding the game on their own even with shinier names on the pitch. Don't think that the same can be said about Dunga and Zito. And in the games of fine margins...

That said I switched to Tuppet anyway.

 

[Tuppet]

@2mufc0 you were great sport for allowing the first two picks mate, kudos for that and the great team you have built. Thanks for a great draft @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[2mufc0]

Congrats @Tuppet Pele and R9 prove to be the dynamic superhero footballer duo!

Hard luck @2mufc0 You had an amazing team and it was down to intangibles and personal preferences, imo.

Thanks for running the draft. Yeah his attack was and can see why it would sway voters. With the number of votes I can't really complain. I enjoyed building this team, and happy with it.

Congratulations @Tuppet.

Thanks to all the people that voted for the team and believing in the Trapello .

 

[Ecstatic]

Congrats @Tuppet

In hindsight, deserved victory.


Ronaldo with poor teammates was almost unplaayable. With zico and pele game over

Tactical considerations don't matter with a trio pele-ronaldo-zico

game over

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Congrats to tuppet. I meant to vote for 2mufc0 but I forgot as I was busy. Not a fan of Zico in that position -I dont think this tactic gets the most out of Zico at all.
But well done anyway my vote wouldnt have matteree

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

That game incidentally is against almost the same defense that Zico is playing today. Sure there are Rijkaard in place of Tardelli and Maldini in place of Cabrini but its not that big a difference and Zico cut them apart. It took an incredible hat-trick from Rossi to and a very unbalanced Brazilian squad with Serginho as striker to defeat them. Now Zico is surrounded here by Pele, Garrincha & Ronaldo, a much better defense and more balanced midfield. It goes to show that players of that caliber can destroy any defense.

Not a good reference at all. That 1982 side was very different than what you have and Zito and Dunga would be extrmely underwhelming in possession compared to Falcao and Cerezo. And its not more "balanced" than 1982 imo. You need either Falcao or Cerezo to balancr that more. Plus i really dislikr Zico role here. Not optimal
Your tactic actually minimizes Zico influence as he was a not a CM. Really not a fan of Pele at SS and Zico at CM role.

 

[antohan]

Taking aside their defensive duties, Rijkaard and Matthäus are very capable of deciding the game on their own even with shinier names on the pitch. Don't think that the same can be said about Dunga and Zito. And in the games of fine margins...

That said I switched to Tuppet anyway.

Sure, but if he didn't have them I would have voted Tuppet straight away. They ARE a better pairing, but far more was required of them with and without the ball.

 

[antohan]

Congrats to tuppet. I meant to vote for 2mufc0 but I forgot as I was busy. Not a fan of Zico in that position -I dont think this tactic gets the most out of Zico at all.
But well done anyway my vote wouldnt have matteree

Same here. I could see Tuppet's point re: proven with Santos and that being Pelé's most common role, but I think Zico suffers far more from the switch than Pelé would have.

 

[Ecstatic]

@Tuppet

Great come-back.

46 voters: a new record?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Same here. I could see Tuppet's point re: proven with Santos and that being Pelé's most common role, but I think Zico suffers far more from the switch than Pelé would have.

I agree. Of course even as I write I keep thinking about R9 Pele Garrincha as well so I might have switched my vote anyway haha

 

[antohan]

@Tuppet

Great come-back.

46 voters: a new record?

Pretty sure we breached 50 once.

 

[KM]

Pretty sure that is two of the strongest teams I've ever seen in football drafts here. Great effort to both.

 

[antohan]

I agree. Of course even as I write I keep thinking about R9 Pele Garrincha as well so I might have switched my vote anyway haha

You could also argue Zico's case more effectively: no designated winger but a playmaking leftback (like Junior) and a forward capable of peeling wide (Eder/Ronaldo).

 

[idmanager]

Congratulation @Tuppet.

In hindsight, regret agreeing to the R1 upgrade, @2mufc0 ?

 

[Ecstatic]

Pretty sure that is two of the strongest teams I've ever seen in football drafts here. Great effort to both.

My team wasn't too bad

-------------- Pele
--- Cristiano ---------- Garrincha
------------- Platini
------- Robson ------ Rijkaard
- Maldini --- Moore ---Scirea---- Camacho

 

[2mufc0]

Congratulation @Tuppet.

In hindsight, regret agreeing to the R1 upgrade, @2mufc0 ?

Not at all, he already had a final worthy front 3, and whoever he got was going to get shoehorned into the team. Imo he has too many attackers who would demand the ball and personally don't see it working in real life, and they would all collide. But the game is over now so no point discussing it further.

The only thing I probably regret is perhaps picking up either Gullit or Rummenigge instead of Rijkaard, who didn't get much love here.

 

[2mufc0]

My team wasn't too bad

-------------- Pele
--- Cristiano ---------- Garrincha
------------- Platini
------- Robson ------ Rijkaard
- Maldini --- Moore ---Scirea---- Camacho

Did you win the draft?

 

[Enigma_87]

Not at all, he already had a final worthy front 3, and whoever he got was going to get shoehorned into the team. Imo he has too many attackers who would demand the ball and personally don't see it working in real life, and they would all collide. But the game is over now so no point discussing it further.

The only thing I probably regret is perhaps picking up either Gullit or Rummenigge instead of Rijkaard, who didn't get much love here.

Yeah Rijkaard on Desailly in that role wasn't a big upgrade. Either of those two and Cabrini on the left would be decider for me.

 

[Ecstatic]

Did you win the draft?

Yes. Camacho MOTM