The Athletic ~ Inside United's 6-1 fallout: Half-time rows, Solskjaer backed, transfer regrets

tombombadil

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You’re not wrong. It does feel like Mourinho all over again. A poor season from our CL rivals ending with us higher up the league table than our performances deserved, yet never once troubling the team at the top of the table (left in the dust by two teams at the top of the table this time round).
Yup. And Mourinho has been vindicated since then. Goes to show how little many fans who whined about that result know about what they are talking about.

We didn’t win the league. If your scenario happened, I’d be delighted as we won a highly competitive league. However, this time, we came 3rd, with only two-thirds of the Champions’ points. It’s right we question and criticise the manager.
And please remember to tell the other managers who finished behind the Ole to hang themselves in shame while you're at it.
 

Rado_N

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This is a poor argument. If we won the league with 66 points, would you return the trophy and demand the manager get sacked? Should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United?

This feels like Mourinho all over again. Got 2nd and best points tally post SAF and people whine incessantly about how City had so much more.
That’s truly a ridiculous argument.

Of course nobody would complain about winning a trophy, only we were 33 points away from that. Just to point out that means we would have needed 150% of the points we actually got in order to have been in contention.

As for “should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United”, a don’t even know where to start with that other than to simply say it should be obvious that other teams have different criteria for success.

For Manchester United, finishing a season with 18 wins and 66 points, 33 points off the top is bad. Really bad. Most other teams doing worse does not make that ok.
 

tombombadil

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He most certainly hasn’t.
The fact that the team collapsed after the Ole revival and missed out on CL that season and then the club promptly bought the centerback that Mourinho wanted the following season proves that he is vindicated, actually.

But I understand. Mourinho is a touch and sensitive subject around here, so I don't want to talk anymore about him.
 

Greck

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How has Jose been vindicated? He isn't asking Spurs for unrealistic targets. Why was he willing to throw United under the bus over it. Spoilt twat
 

Fletchageddon

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I think on balance Woodward was right not to spend 120m rising to 250m all in. I know it's a blow now and we do need players but that will be seen as obscene money this time next year. This pandemic isn't going away anytime soon. This article seems to suggest Ole was in charge or there was full co-operation between Ole an Ed/Matt and that they intentionally leaving late as they really wanted Sancho. So that's a positive in a sense that there isn't a rift between manager and upper management. Hopefully some of the players stand up for themselves and the manager.
 

SirAF

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How has Jose been vindicated? He isn't asking Spurs for unrealistic targets? Why was he willing to throw United under the bus over it. Spoilt twat
Spurs don't have the resources, United do/did.



What the feck?
No need to be rude, man.

I don't want to do a whole song and a dance so I'll make one last comment about Mourinho as a United manager:

Two trophies in his first season plus a CL qualification. 2nd place in the 2nd season + CL qualification. The summer of 2018 was the time to kick on but the board screwed him. Yeah, Mourinho threw his toys out when he realised it was impossible to do any better with United. So what? Why did he act that way? The club screwed him. He wanted to win the biggest trophies and so do we as fans I presume?

2020: OGS managed to get 3rd and guide United back into the CL. This summer was the time to kick on in the market - same old story. Coach gets fecked in the ass. The club is a complete shitshow. Mourinho was right.
 

RkkMan

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Spurs don't have the resources, United do/did.





No need to be rude, man.

I don't want to do a whole song and a dance so I'll make one last comment about Mourinho as a United manager:

Two trophies in his first season plus a CL qualification. 2nd place in the 2nd season + CL qualification. The summer of 2018 was the time to kick on but the board screwed him. Yeah, Mourinho threw his toys out when he realised it was impossible to do any better with United. So what? Why did he act that way? The club screwed him. He wanted to win the biggest trophies and so do we as fans I presume?

2020: OGS managed to get 3rd and guide United back into the CL. This summer was the time to kick on in the market - same old story. Coach gets fecked in the ass. The club is a complete shitshow. Mourinho was right.
I bet you would have loved if we spanked 70m on a 30yr old Willian or swapped Martial for him. Granted he should have gotten a CB but some of the targets we refused on we did them rightfully
 

SirAF

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I bet you would have loved if we spanked 70m on a 30yr old Willian or swapped Martial for him. Granted he should have gotten a CB but some of the targets we refused on we did them rightfully
I would have loved it if it resulted in just one PL or a CL. If you hire a guy like Mourinho you back him 100% - if not then don't hire him at all.
 

Highfather_24

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The fact that the team collapsed after the Ole revival and missed out on CL that season and then the club promptly bought the centerback that Mourinho wanted the following season proves that he is vindicated, actually.

But I understand. Mourinho is a touch and sensitive subject around here, so I don't want to talk anymore about him.
For the kind of results we got under Mourinho, its not worth it to watch the kind of tepid soul crushing football we played. He created an extremely toxic culture around the club and wanted to replace Martial with Perisic. Dude might have identified some problems with Utd, but he was extremely flawed himself, and definitely not the man for the job. The post Sevilla tantrum says it all about him.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Let's be honest Maguire was pretty dire since, after the lockdown, you can't just put it down to his arrest. Still our best defender, but it's not looking like making him the worlds most expensive investment was a good idea.
 

tombombadil

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For the kind of results we got under Mourinho, its not worth it to watch the kind of tepid soul crushing football we played. He created an extremely toxic culture around the club and wanted to replace Martial with Perisic. Dude might have identified some problems with Utd, but he was extremely flawed himself, and definitely not the man for the job. The post Sevilla tantrum says it all about him.
For sure, Mourinho had problems of his own. I think it's been told many times over. But he was right in his analysis of the problems.
 

Greck

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Spurs don't have the resources, United do/did.





No need to be rude, man.

I don't want to do a whole song and a dance so I'll make one last comment about Mourinho as a United manager:

Two trophies in his first season plus a CL qualification. 2nd place in the 2nd season + CL qualification. The summer of 2018 was the time to kick on but the board screwed him. Yeah, Mourinho threw his toys out when he realised it was impossible to do any better with United. So what? Why did he act that way? The club screwed him. He wanted to win the biggest trophies and so do we as fans I presume?

2020: OGS managed to get 3rd and guide United back into the CL. This summer was the time to kick on in the market - same old story. Coach gets fecked in the ass. The club is a complete shitshow. Mourinho was right.
Don't agree Ole hasn't been backed just because he didn't get a marquee name this summer. We got in 4 new players and Cavani. This notion that we are in dire need of a first teamer to even stay afloat came about this season when it became obvious Ole was going to have another struggle season. People now wanted us to throw caution to the wind to rescue the prospects of an underperforming manager when this was the same starting xi you couldn't criticise by the end of last season without cupping abuses, this was supposedly the core of the future Ole had moulded and deserved to oversee for the next 4 years. It's also not like we totally gave up on Sancho just because a fee couldnt be reached this summer. An underperforming manager is always going to look like he has never been backed
 

HackeyC

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For sure, Mourinho had problems of his own. I think it's been told many times over. But he was right in his analysis of the problems.
He also thought Maguire was part of the solution so let's not get too nostalgic :lol:
 

Idxomer

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Don't agree Ole hasn't been backed just because he didn't get a marquee name this summer. We got in 4 new players and Cavani. This notion that we are in dire need of a first teamer only came about this season when it became obvious Ole was going to have another struggle season. People now wanted us to throw caution to the wind to rescue the prospects of an underperforming manager when this was the same starting xi you couldn't criticise by the end of last season without cupping abuses, this was supposedly the core of the future Ole had moulded and deserved to oversee for the next 4 years. An underperforming manager is always going to look like he has never been backed
Yep, most of the talk at the end of last season was about squad depth and how we had a starting lineup as good as any in the league.
 

RashyForPM

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Yup. And Mourinho has been vindicated since then. Goes to show how little many fans who whined about that result know about what they are talking about.


And please remember to tell the other managers who finished behind the Ole to hang themselves in shame while you're at it.
Why? Lampard had a transfer ban and will clearly finish above Ole this season with more than 66 points (hope not obviously) and Mourinho and Arteta came in mid-season. Rodgers and Nuno did well to make Europe. That’s a weird comeback. 66 points for Manchester United is never acceptable.
 

#07

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So basically the Bruno - Harry bust up actually happened then :lol:

We've known about our poor perception around Europe when it comes to football matters and it doesn't seem the club really give a feck about making changes/restructuring.

Not surprised about the stuff about the team feeling Ole wasn't backed deservingly after the strong 2nd half of the season we had. If fans and pundits felt that way it's no shock some in the squad would feel the same.

Interesting that there already seems to be a mole/leak or 2 in the dressing room a month into the season...doesn't bode well for this season avoiding a circus I'm afraid
To me that was the most striking details. How's information like that finding its way to f'n reddit days before any reputable journalist has the story? This sorta thing should stay in the dressing room full stop, frankly. To be on reddit, of all places, within hours of the game..? :houllier:
 

tombombadil

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He also thought Maguire was part of the solution so let's not get too nostalgic :lol:
I know what you mean. haha. But to be fair, hindsight is 20/20.

I'm pretty sure Mourinho would've played a deeper line and get more protection for Maguire, so whether he is actually any good or not, Mourinho might have made him look rock solid.

Why? Lampard had a transfer ban and will clearly finish above Ole this season with more than 66 points (hope not obviously) and Mourinho and Arteta came in mid-season. Rodgers and Nuno did well to make Europe. That’s a weird comeback. 66 points for Manchester United is never acceptable.
A lot of them inherited squads that finished above United consistently the past 7 seasons. If we want to start making exceptions, where do we draw the line?

That's my point. These kinds of distinctions are pointless. The fact is, we finished 3rd and it was a tight finish. That is some progress from the previous season. More importantly is to see if we can maintain the trend/momentum. It's not looking good at the moment, for sure.
 

Zlatattack

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That’s truly a ridiculous argument.

Of course nobody would complain about winning a trophy, only we were 33 points away from that. Just to point out that means we would have needed 150% of the points we actually got in order to have been in contention.

As for “should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United”, a don’t even know where to start with that other than to simply say it should be obvious that other teams have different criteria for success.

For Manchester United, finishing a season with 18 wins and 66 points, 33 points off the top is bad. Really bad. Most other teams doing worse does not make that ok.
Exactly. Standards have slipped and people are happy to let that slide, because they want to be seen to be backing the team and not glory supporting.

I'm afraid I don't find my team losing, often after poor performances on the pitch, entertaining. Make of that what you will.
 

Pace Abuser

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We can 3rd last season, just a quick reminder.
With a moneybags signing of a player who limped him over the line with an abysmal 66 point. More than 30 off 1st.

That player has now regressed to Ole's mean. More moneybags signings required consisting of most sought after and expensive players in Europe to get back to beating relegation candidates and hopefully finding 3rd.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Really don’t think it would’ve been the end of the world if the board had allowed Martial and Pogba to be sold
 

AltiUn

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That result really came at the wrong time for us, as if there's every a time to lose 6-1, the international break is just letting it stew instead of giving us any chance to rectify it. Mourinho completely lost the dressing room, the players very visibly lost faith in him after the Sevilla game, he alienated the two players who were carrying his team. He had to go. City finished with 98 points the following season, adding Willian and Maguire wouldn't have done a thing. What he probably was right about was Martial, Pogba and Shaw, they're all talented, streaky but we wouldn't miss any of them if they were sold.


Also if the board really were "unequivocally" behind him then he wouldn't have missed out on every target he had. Also, if there's doubts about Solskjaer's characteristics as a top manager, then isn't that alone enough reasons to be keeping our options open? Losing 6-1 to Tottenham Hotspur has never, and should never, be acceptable. I think we just need to face the reality that our manager isn't good enough but even if he was he wouldn't get the backing he needs because the board and our CEO also aren't good enough, the rot's already set in, I don't think there's anything we can do except wait for the club to sink low enough for the Glazers to sell one day, protests won't do a thing.
 

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Why are two of the best young talents in Europe unrealistic? Because the board refused to pay for sancho this year???

Nothing at all wrong with our manager having a clear indication of the players he wants and its up to the board to try and deliver them.

Also doesn't Haaland have a release clause this Year? Soemthing like €50m (not certain so don't crucify me if I'm wrong).

€170 million Euro outlay isn't the end of the world for us.

And I personally think from the little I know about those lads (from watching play, interviews with and about them) that they fit exactly with the profile of player we should have as our top targets.
 

Garethw

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That’s truly a ridiculous argument.

Of course nobody would complain about winning a trophy, only we were 33 points away from that. Just to point out that means we would have needed 150% of the points we actually got in order to have been in contention.

As for “should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United”, a don’t even know where to start with that other than to simply say it should be obvious that other teams have different criteria for success.

For Manchester United, finishing a season with 18 wins and 66 points, 33 points off the top is bad. Really bad. Most other teams doing worse does not make that ok.
Spot on mate!
 

Bilbo

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Surely if 66 points was good enough for 3rd place that would indicate a more difficult league than is common, no? Especially when 17 other teams had a worse record than us. 66 points might well be good enough for 3rd place again this season if early results are anything to go by.
 

Giggsy13

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Not from above article but quite interesting.

Can’t see us getting either one of them now. Sancho will have more options next year and we will likely be coming off a campaign where we’ve finished outside of the top 4.
 

tombombadil

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That’s truly a ridiculous argument.

Of course nobody would complain about winning a trophy, only we were 33 points away from that. Just to point out that means we would have needed 150% of the points we actually got in order to have been in contention.

As for “should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United”, a don’t even know where to start with that other than to simply say it should be obvious that other teams have different criteria for success.

For Manchester United, finishing a season with 18 wins and 66 points, 33 points off the top is bad. Really bad. Most other teams doing worse does not make that ok.
Are you sure? "But we only got 66 points. That's such a nothing achievement. We were just lucky. Previous season, we would have been 6th." I wouldn't be surprised to see these kinds of comments if the team lost a few games and got trashed 6-1 the following season.

Other teams finished consistently above Man United the last 6 years. I could just as well argue finishing below us is a bad result. Haha. This is a problem with the 66 pts argument. It really feels like a "what if" exercise. And then for every scenario, you have to make exceptions. Where do you draw the line with the exceptions? How do we decide which exception is relevant, and which are not?

That's why I don't really like these kinds of arguments.
 

Hawks2008

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Nice to see there's some truth in Bruno having a go at our ogre of a captain.
 

Stacks

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What Utd need :

- Top class tactical coach. Sack Carrick & Mckenna. Ole is a good man manager, and even Fergie needed good tactical coaches.
- A sporting director who will manage the direction of the club, and will be in charge of recruitment/negotiation.
- A CB, DM and RW in the next window. Along with a massive clear out of deadwood.
Do Real have a sporting director? I know it was Zidane
Let's be honest Maguire was pretty dire since, after the lockdown, you can't just put it down to his arrest. Still our best defender, but it's not looking like making him the worlds most expensive investment was a good idea.
would rather two 40million CB. He is a 40million CB so that would not be an issue
Yep, most of the talk at the end of last season was about squad depth and how we had a starting lineup as good as any in the league.
The narrative changes like the wind........
 

tombombadil

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Surely if 66 points was good enough for 3rd place that would indicate a more difficult league than is common, no? Especially when 17 other teams had a worse record than us. 66 points might well be good enough for 3rd place again this season if early results are anything to go by.
Exactly. It's such a nothing argument.

The end result is all that matters. Should Leicester give back the trophy because everyone else was so shit that season? No. They celebrate it.

We made 3rd, sure, we don't celebrate 3rd, but it is an encouraging progress. It surely is not a stick to beat the manager with, especially if we want to say we overachieved. With said manager.
 

DomesticTadpole

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That result really came at the wrong time for us, as if there's every a time to lose 6-1, the international break is just letting it stew instead of giving us any chance to rectify it. Mourinho completely lost the dressing room, the players very visibly lost faith in him after the Sevilla game, he alienated the two players who were carrying his team. He had to go. City finished with 98 points the following season, adding Willian and Maguire wouldn't have done a thing. What he probably was right about was Martial, Pogba and Shaw, they're all talented, streaky but we wouldn't miss any of them if they were sold.


Also if the board really were "unequivocally" behind him then he wouldn't have missed out on every target he had. Also, if there's doubts about Solskjaer's characteristics as a top manager, then isn't that alone enough reasons to be keeping our options open? Losing 6-1 to Tottenham Hotspur has never, and should never, be acceptable. I think we just need to face the reality that our manager isn't good enough but even if he was he wouldn't get the backing he needs because the board and our CEO also aren't good enough, the rot's already set in, I don't think there's anything we can do except wait for the club to sink low enough for the Glazers to sell one day, protests won't do a thing.
Think we will need to see how things materialise after the international break. We need to get a good result against Newcastle to build confidence, then the CL starts kicking in, then we also have Arsenal and Chelsea at home. Good results and things can build. Bad result then people will seriously start to worry. We also need to see Ole react if things do go wrong in those games. Think most fans think he is too slow to react, so that definitely has to change. He has to be decisive in those situations or things can get out of hand.
 

Zen86

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This. Fecks sake, find another way to carry on the job of manager without overpriced targets. These are signings your average redcafe member could make. TBF it may just be the papers exaggerating it
Ya think? I very much doubt any journalist knows who our transfer targets were, they’re rehashing old news from the summer.