The Athletic ~ Inside United's 6-1 fallout: Half-time rows, Solskjaer backed, transfer regrets

[Rado_N]

Are you sure? "But we only got 66 points. That's such a nothing achievement. We were just lucky. Previous season, we would have been 6th." I wouldn't be surprised to see these kinds of comments if the team lost a few games and got trashed 6-1 the following season.

Other teams finished consistently above Man United the last 6 years. I could just as well argue finishing below us is a bad result. Haha. This is a problem with the 66 pts argument. It really feels like a "what if" exercise. And then for every scenario, you have to make exceptions. Where do you draw the line with the exceptions? How do we decide which exception is relevant, and which are not?

That's why I don't really like these kinds of arguments.

I’m really not trying to be funny but I’ve no idea what argument you’re trying to make here.

The only point I’m making here is that winning 18 games in a premier league season and finishing with 66 points is a bad year. It’s been sugarcoated by other teams having worse years and scraping into the CL positions, but it’s a bad season.

I don’t have any agenda one way or another regarding any particular manager, I’m not being Jose into it, I’m not making exceptions for anyone. I’m simply saying that Manchester United have generally not performed to a good enough standard under Ole, and there is nothing to suggest that is going to change.

 

[Ali Dia]

Redknapp is an odd source for this.

Ole started staying this after Jamie too. At the start Redknapp was all I could think about when Ole kept saying top top. Feck it

 

[monosierra]

Sponsorship money will surely go down. If the new TV deals are not considerably increasing in value and the fans unite, then some indicators will say that the club has peaked in value. Might very well sell the club then.
All this is assuming we continue with running the football side of the club like a financial institution.

This. When the next round of sponsors sign on, I wouldn't be surprised if the terms and cash flow are much lower than the last deals' were. They could explain during investor calls that Covid was to blame but surely some of the larger institutional shareholders (still the minority, I know) will question managament.

 

[monosierra]

I’m really not trying to be funny but I’ve no idea what argument you’re trying to make here.

The only point I’m making here is that winning 18 games in a premier league season and finishing with 66 points is a bad year. It’s been sugarcoated by other teams having worse years and scraping into the CL positions, but it’s a bad season.

I don’t have any agenda one way or another regarding any particular manager, I’m not being Jose into it, I’m not making exceptions for anyone. I’m simply saying that Manchester United have generally not performed to a good enough standard under Ole, and there is nothing to suggest that is going to change.

Agree. Keep it simple: Are we happy with the performances last season? Only after the break and Bruno joined did we kick it up a notch - only for the momentum to fizzle towards the end and continue to plummet so far this season. All other qualifications and explanations just muddle the waters.

 

[GifLord]

Spurs don't have the resources, United do/did.





No need to be rude, man.

I don't want to do a whole song and a dance so I'll make one last comment about Mourinho as a United manager:

Two trophies in his first season plus a CL qualification. 2nd place in the 2nd season + CL qualification. The summer of 2018 was the time to kick on but the board screwed him. Yeah, Mourinho threw his toys out when he realised it was impossible to do any better with United. So what? Why did he act that way? The club screwed him. He wanted to win the biggest trophies and so do we as fans I presume?

2020: OGS managed to get 3rd and guide United back into the CL. This summer was the time to kick on in the market - same old story. Coach gets fecked in the ass. The club is a complete shitshow. Mourinho was right.

One of the easiest Europa League draws ever - and even then we had trouble beating the European Super houses like the mighty Anderlecht and Celta vigo. Fluked the Mickey Mouse cup with the help of the ref. In his first season we were out of top 4 spot since matchday 5. In his 2nd season despite a great start out of the title race in November and completely embarrassed in the Champions League and the heritage talk after the loss.. Pure Cringe. 3rd season syndrome
Almost all of his transfer have been utter wank despite spending a whopping 460million € in 3 years!!
Yes he's been vindicated alright by Mourinho fanboys.

 

[matsdf]

We got 66 points and that was mostly due to penalties to win games we had no right winning.

This is a joke right? How many games last season did we win and not deserve to win?

Now my point was not that 3rd was a fecking brilliant achievement, it was in response to people saying we are fighting relegation.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Anything positive in there? Seems from the bullets it's all negative anyways

I don't think of it in terms of positive but rather in the sense of rational. When I get home I'll make a small summary of it but for now a few points:

-there was a defensive disaster class but it's idiot to look at it in isolation. The 3 best defenses in the league were humiliated. This speaks of other things rather then just player quality or quality of coaching. Some text was given for Maguire's personal problems.

-the club does not look at a few games to messure progress but rather at a bigger picture. You do not finish 3ed with a good defensive record if the coaches are bad. They have a rational view of things and don't fall pray to the short term negativity. (I doubt this as i don't trust Woody to understand the process of a rebuild, but i hope it's true)

- Diallo was done weeks before it was announced. " "The Ivory Coast teenager, who moved to Italy at a young age, is regarded by rival clubs, scouts and agents as one of the coups of the window, with one source describing him as "the next best thing to Barcelona's Ansu Fati""" So not only was this not a panic buy but it is regarded as a great move. Why was it announced in the last day? My guess PR.

-some pieces of the half time fight in the Spurs game referring how the main point was not some inner fight but a general hate for Lamela and his "cheating". Bruno was taken off because we wanted more mobility in mid and Rashford had better pace to stay for the counter.

The general feel is that the players are angry and fired up, something that i love to hear.

 

[led_scholes]

He's Guardiola without the talent. Moneybags Ole. Needs the best and most expensive players in Europe to mount a challenge against relegation level teams.

I really don't remember this narrative about not being able to sing your targets before as an excuse. Fergie had players like Nesta and Ronaldinho as top targets but he was getting Blanc and Bellion. No manager ever works with his dream targets. I think Pep and Jose started with this approach that if they don't get a result they blame the transfer policy but now many have used it, or it is used again again as a defence statement for a manager.

 

[TsuWave]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Castles speaking facts.

 

[Tiber]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I love how bitter he is about Jose, loves to chime in at every opportunity

 

[SirAF]

One of the easiest Europa League draws ever - and even then we had trouble beating the European Super houses like the mighty Anderlecht and Celta vigo. Fluked the Mickey Mouse cup with the help of the ref. In his first season we were out of top 4 spot since matchday 5. In his 2nd season despite a great start out of the title race in November and completely embarrassed in the Champions League and the heritage talk after the loss.. Pure Cringe. 3rd season syndrome
Almost all of his transfer have been utter wank despite spending a whopping 460million € in 3 years!!
Yes he's been vindicated alright by Mourinho fanboys.

Irrelevant. Football is about winning trophies, how you win does not matter. I bet OGS would have loved to have those two trophies under his belt by now.

The last line is pretty childish.

 

[united_99]

One manager not being good enough doesn’t make the privious one automatically a good choice, let alone vindicated.
Jose was the wrong choice, his performances and especially style of play in the last few years plus his disaster season with Chelsea should have been warning signals for us. We were right to get rid, he will have a disastrous time at Spurs sooner or later as well, but that’s not our problem.

If Ole is still here in December and we have managed a good run by then, we will see where we stand and how the team has performed.
For now we need a win at Newcastle and if that doesn’t happen, our mentally fragile team will get nothing out against Chelsea or Arsenal either and after that it will be only a matter of time until Ole is sacked.
Our board makes mistakes, but those mistakes don’t mean that managers can be given a free pass and blame everything on the board (not saying Ole is doing this, but some fans are).

Fingers crossed we win our next PL game.

 

[GifLord]

Irrelevant. Football is about winning trophies, how you win does not matter. I bet OGS would have loved to have those two trophies under his belt by now.

The last line is pretty childish.

How is it childish? Just look at the comments in this thread. Some are seriously thinking of Mourinho being vindicated after spending the most money of any manager in the last 10 years.

 

[united_99]

Irrelevant. Football is about winning trophies, how you win does not matter. I bet OGS would have loved to have those two trophies under his belt by now.

The last line is pretty childish.

Jose hardly won the PL or CL. I would take maybe a couple of seasons of utter boredom with a manager who guarantees that, but not for a smaller trophy unless it’s for a club which has not won the league or CL for several decades.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I love how bitter he is about Jose, loves to chime in at every opportunity

It's just sad now

 

[fezzerUTD]

Nice, looking forward reading: "Inside Liverpool's 7-2 fallout; players busts up, Klopp breaking his teeth..."
Oh, wait what, you think that wont happen'? Hmmmm...

Who gives a feck about Liverpool? And do you think they will have the troubles we will have this season further down the line?

 

[jackal&hyde]

One manager not being good enough doesn’t make the privious one automatically a good choice, let alone vindicated.
Jose was the wrong choice, his performances and especially style of play in the last few years plus his disaster season with Chelsea should have been warning signals for us. We were right to get rid, he will have a disastrous time at Spurs sooner or later as well, but that’s not our problem.

If Ole is still here in December and we have managed a good run by then, we will see where we stand and how the team has performed.
For now we need a win at Newcastle and if that doesn’t happen, our mentally fragile team will get nothing out against Chelsea or Arsenal either and after that it will be only a matter of time until Ole is sacked.
Our board makes mistakes, but those mistakes don’t mean that managers can be given a free pass and blame everything on the board (not saying Ole is doing this, but some fans are).

Fingers crossed we win our next PL game.

This has feck all to do with the thread and is a text book example of why threads go to sh3te.

 

[Bilbo]

Agree. Keep it simple: Are we happy with the performances last season? Only after the break and Bruno joined did we kick it up a notch - only for the momentum to fizzle towards the end and continue to plummet so far this season. All other qualifications and explanations just muddle the waters.

Its anything but simple though.

When Bruno joined we went up several levels, but this wasn't any more of a surprise than the inconsistency we showed before his arrival was, because we were crying out for a player to link the team with our front three. Momentum fizzled towards the end because we couldnt/wouldnt rotate.

This isn't me trying to find excuses for anybody. They are rational explanations for how the team has been playing.

I think United have struggled to put a decent run of form together since Ferguson really. Every manager has had his spells. In this subject there are two things that Ole has going for him IMO - (a) his record against the best opponents and (b) his good spell has been better than the others, by which i mean the right kind of football that we want to see

 

[sammsky1]

.I don't want to do a whole song and a dance so I'll make one last comment about Mourinho as a United manager: Two trophies in his first season plus a CL qualification. 2nd place in the 2nd season + CL qualification. The summer of 2018 was the time to kick on but the board screwed him. Yeah, Mourinho threw his toys out when he realised it was impossible to do any better with United. So what? Why did he act that way? The club screwed him. He wanted to win the biggest trophies and so do we as fans I presume? 2020: OGS managed to get 3rd and guide United back into the CL. This summer was the time to kick on in the market - same old story. Coach gets fecked in the ass. The club is a complete shitshow.
Mourinho was right.

I agree with you. The club was so idiotically stupid to sack Mourinho, emboldened by a lot of moany digital fans (match going fans were always behind him). Had they listened to him (Pogba) and backed him with players he obviously needed in that last transfer window (a world class centre back and right winger), I'm sure he'd have seriously challenged or maybe even won the league in year 3 and been in place to win in year 4.

I'm fascinated to see his work at Spurs. Now he has a better CEO to work with, despite having seriously smaller budgets, he has quickly amassed a stellar squad suited to his liking. No-one at the club is moaning about his management of Alli (compare to Pogba), and I think he has a better chance to reach top 4 than we have this year. Bale will prove to be a monster signing.

 

[Highfather_24]

Do Real have a sporting director? I know it was Zidane

I dont think they have one now, Perez doesnt want one. But Perez atleast is competent in getting signings done.

 

[Gordon S]

Nothing new, just easy clicks.

Most interesting bit was the paragraph on Diallo and that it is regarded as a great signing, that he is second only to Fati as the best young player in Europe.

Thats somewhat surprising, there are a few young players around doing really well. Camavinga, Cherki, Bellingham Greenwood, Reyna.. If he is indeed better than all of them we got the deal of the year!

 

[Bojan11]

A bit of a pointless, sensationalist story.

This is the athletic for you.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Unless something sinister happened in Greece that we are unaware of, it doesn't make sense that Maguire has weeks and weeks of PTSD.

And if he really has a problem, then he should be dropped and given time to get counseling.

 

[horsechoker]

Unless something sinister happened in Greece that we are unaware of, it doesn't make sense that Maguire has weeks and weeks of PTSD.

And if he really has a problem, then he should be dropped and given time to get counseling.

Spurs players were shouting "woop woop that's the sound of da police" at Maguire which unnerved him.

 

[tombombadil]

I’m really not trying to be funny but I’ve no idea what argument you’re trying to make here.

The only point I’m making here is that winning 18 games in a premier league season and finishing with 66 points is a bad year. It’s been sugarcoated by other teams having worse years and scraping into the CL positions, but it’s a bad season.

I don’t have any agenda one way or another regarding any particular manager, I’m not being Jose into it, I’m not making exceptions for anyone. I’m simply saying that Manchester United have generally not performed to a good enough standard under Ole, and there is nothing to suggest that is going to change.

Let's make it simple. You can argue it was a shit result. I could just as well argue the league is far more competitive that particular season. Due to covid and all that.

Which exception should we accept when considering the data at hand? or would it be wiser to just accept the league position as it is and look to track the trends over long term to see if it was just a blip or a consistent trend? I think I would rather look at the bigger picture rather than just dismiss the results on the basis of my own assumption

I think the team has been performing poorly for 7 years. And we've blamed and changed multiple managers during that time. So I guess, up to a certain extent, I could agree with you.

 

[united_99]

This has feck all to do with the thread and is a text book example of why threads go to sh3te.

It has as a few posts earlier people are taking about the board and our former managers, especially Jose.

 

[sammsky1]

This is the athletic for you.

I thought the Athletic was meant to be serious and properly researched sports journalism?

Has it become tabloid already?

 

[tombombadil]

It has as a few posts earlier people are taking about the board and our former managers, especially Jose.

Yeah, maybe I am partially responsible and I apologise for my part in that.

That's why I'd rather not talk about him anymore as I have no interest in going around in circles about something I don't care for, etc.

My main question, and I'm not sure if it has been answered is, if any of the claims have been verified? I hope these leaks do not become the norm.

 

[tombombadil]

I thought the Athletic was meant to be serious and properly researched sports journalism?

Has it become tabloid already?

That's what I thought as well. How are The Athletic's track record with their articles?

 

[Viral United]

That’s truly a ridiculous argument.

Of course nobody would complain about winning a trophy, only we were 33 points away from that. Just to point out that means we would have needed 150% of the points we actually got in order to have been in contention.

As for “should all the other managers below Ole hang themselves in shame for finishing below Man United”, a don’t even know where to start with that other than to simply say it should be obvious that other teams have different criteria for success.

For Manchester United, finishing a season with 18 wins and 66 points, 33 points off the top is bad. Really bad. Most other teams doing worse does not make that ok.

Isn't last season our success criteria was to qualify for CL.
I know 66 points is very low but its does do that job isn't it?
I don't blindly support Ole, and you can twist it as much you like, but last season was good season. We do achieve our target.

 

[Greck]

That's what I thought as well. How are The Athletic's track record with their articles?

Some of the most credible in print/online media (not literal print). By contrast Espn are on the opposite end of the scale. A few years ago had this nickname Bspn

 

[Revaulx]

The fact that the team collapsed after the Ole revival and missed out on CL that season

So we'd have definitely got CL if Jose had stayed and we'd bought Maguire for him?

and then the club promptly bought the centerback that Mourinho wanted the following season proves that he is vindicated, actually.

Yeah Maguire has really transformed the fortunes of the team. Or is that Ole's bad management?

But I understand. Mourinho is a touch and sensitive subject around here, so I don't want to talk anymore about him.

Not for me it isn't. I still like him and if it didn't involve United being tonked 6-1 would be glad that he seems to have recovered part of his mojo at Spurs. I'm also happy to acknowledge that his failure at United was by no means all his fault. I still reckon that, his fault or not, his last year or so with us was crap and I was delighted to see him gone.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

He's Guardiola without the talent. Moneybags Ole. Needs the best and most expensive players in Europe to mount a challenge against relegation level teams.

Finishing 3rd is mounting a challenge against relegation level teams?

Give it a rest, mard arse.

 

[tombombadil]

Some of the most credible in print/online media (not literal print). By contrast Espn are on the opposite end of the scale. A few years ago had this nickname Bspn

Well if that's, it doesn't augur well. They've had multiple stories already about the club's insider happenings. I sincerely hope it doesn't become a trend.

 

[Revaulx]

Unless something sinister happened in Greece that we are unaware of, it doesn't make sense that Maguire has weeks and weeks of PTSD.

And if he really has a problem, then he should be dropped and given time to get counseling.

Maguire was very good for three or four months up to lockdown. He's been in iffy form since the restart; not just since Greece.

 

[jackal&hyde]

It has as a few posts earlier people are taking about the board and our former managers, especially Jose.

So it's a response to the thread topic or not? Feck this, another thread on ignore.

 

[tombombadil]

So we'd have definitely got CL if Jose had stayed and we'd bought Maguire for him?

Yeah Maguire has really transformed the fortunes of the team. Or is that Ole's bad management?

Not for me it isn't. I still like him and if it didn't involve United being tonked 6-1 would be glad that he seems to have recovered part of his mojo at Spurs. I'm also happy to acknowledge that his failure at United was by no means all his fault. I still reckon that, his fault or not, his last year or so with us was crap and I was delighted to see him gone.

No. I think by that time, that ship had already sailed. Mourinho had self destructed and he couldn't be arsed anymore.

Judging from the collapse when Ole was interim manager and how last season the defensive record was actually decent, I think Maguire helped a lot. He's not perfect, but he helped.

Well, I do not hate Mourinho either and I agree his final year was crap. But my post was not aimed at you. I'd rather just focus back on the topic at hand as I feel bad as it is with the main topic side tracked.

 

[Snow]

Anyone got the full story!! I want to read this soap opera. Why didn’t we do our own Amazon. Imagine the money from that.

The article is a whole lot of nothing.

• Maybe someone was angry at half time for some reason. Some players usually are when teams are losing
• Signings were made late
• United is run by non-football people that are bad at negotiating and don't have a clear vision in the market
• Is Telles good enough?

There you go. If you're looking for facts there are none. Just a lot of hearsay and "I heard this guy say that..." type reporting.

 

[Redplane]

The article is a whole lot of nothing.

• Maybe someone was angry at half time for some reason. Some players usually are when teams are losing
• Signings were made late
• United is run by non-football people that are bad at negotiating and don't have a clear vision in the market
• Is Telles good enough?

There you go. If you're looking for facts there are none. Just a lot of hearsay and "I heard this guy say that..." type reporting.

I assumed as much seeing the headline of the thread. Anyone can be a sports journo these days - especially bc its probably the most gullible audience you ll find amongst all the different topic areas.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I agree with you. The club was so idiotically stupid to sack Mourinho, emboldened by a lot of moany digital fans (match going fans were always behind him). Had they listened to him (Pogba) and backed him with players he obviously needed in that last transfer window (a world class centre back and right winger), I'm sure he'd have seriously challenged or maybe even won the league in year 3 and been in place to win in year 4.

I'm fascinated to see his work at Spurs. Now he has a better CEO to work with, despite having seriously smaller budgets, he has quickly amassed a stellar squad suited to his liking. No-one at the club is moaning about his management of Alli (compare to Pogba), and I think he has a better chance to reach top 4 than we have this year. Bale will prove to be a monster signing.

What a load of crap