The Athletic: "Man Utd coaches trying Jadon Sancho as RWB"

[AFC NimbleThumb]

For a number of reasons, soccer cannot be nerdified in full as american football or basketball, with stats and patterns, therefore clickbaiting is needed to justify nerdy subscription models, and The Athletic sell themselves as sport rocket scientists where soccer is a dynamic, luck-oriented, non-closed game, then…

in this particular instance, training is just training, uh? Trial and error, finding a niche for young players, even to have a baseline benchmark, a lot of times. And Sancho is just a very expensive Mr Nobody at this stage, not fitting anywhere. Why the manager should not be allowed to see (in training!) how he gets on at a different position?

Because this nobody was purchased as a winger but is now being tasked by his scattergun manager to play as a wingback.

Haaland is physically imposing, you wouldn’t have put him at Centreback. Trial & error is fine if the manager in question has credit in the bank with that method but this just reeks of OgS in firefighting mode throwing sh*t at the wall & hoping it sticks to save his job. He could try Dalot at FB before trying Sancho at WB but no, he’s already formed his opinion on the prior.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

For a number of reasons, soccer cannot be nerdified in full as american football or basketball, with stats and patterns, therefore clickbaiting is needed to justify nerdy subscription models, and The Athletic sell themselves as sport rocket scientists where soccer is a dynamic, luck-oriented, non-closed game, then…

in this particular instance, training is just training, uh? Trial and error, finding a niche for young players, even to have a baseline benchmark, a lot of times. And Sancho is just a very expensive Mr Nobody at this stage, not fitting anywhere. Why the manager should not be allowed to see (in training!) how he gets on at a different position?

Why the feck would you pay a massive fee for one of the most exciting and productive players (let alone young players) in Europe just to experiment with playing him at a position that does not even remotely align with his best attributes?

 

[Idxomer]

You misread, Sancho is wide on the right and there's a Walker type behind him.

Okay, sorry.

Someone like Walker with his pace would definitely help.

 

[Oranges038]

He's literally a Man United correspondent? All he writes about is United and he's uniformly acknowledged to be very well sourced, like most everyone at The Athletic.

And if he was trying to get clicks then he'd put the juiciest bit in the headline surely? Or at least further forward than the second to last paragraph?

He's writing an article about his struggles since he joined. Then he includes a bit about the coaches training with him at wing back.

To me he's just giving others who quote him as a source the little bits they need to make a headline out of nothing and drive traffic towards his article in the hope of generating traffic back for new subs.

Why include that bit at all otherwise? When all it really does is detract from his main points about his struggles since joining.

I might be being cynical, but he's writing for a subscription service that hasn't yet made a profit and who's owners are desperately looking to sell. So you know, they need a the subs they can get.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He's writing an article about his struggles since he joined. Then he includes a bit about the coaches training with him at wing back.

To me he's just giving others who quote him as a source the little bits they need to make a headline out of nothing and drive traffic towards his article in the hope of generating traffic back for new subs.

Why include that bit at all otherwise? When all it really does is detract from his main points about his struggles since joining.

What on Earth are you talking about? Of course it's additive to the piece - he's struggled to hit the ground running and now there's a new obstacle in his way because Ole is using a 3-5-2. How can you possibly suggest that it isn't relevant to report that Sancho has been training in a different position on that basis? Do you think it was crowbarred into the piece? Believe you mentioned earlier that you haven't even read it so why do you think you should be expressing editorial decisions?

You seem to be confusing The Athletic with Man United's PR firm - why should a reporter withhold interesting and meaningful information that is relevant to what is being published? Because it might be perceived that they are pushing for clicks? Come off it mate - just accept that it's a legitimate story from a credible source. Not everything is a witch hunt.

 

[MUFC OK]

Why should we have to play a back 3 at all? Why is that suddenly the solution versus what we did for the first 2.5 years that ole was here?

We’ve been badly exposed this year trying to play on the front foot and the coaches have shown they know next to nothing other than sitting in and counter attack as a tactic. Sancho doesn’t deserve this.

 

[NoPace]

Okay, sorry.

Someone like Walker with his pace would definitely help.

Yeah, no question. Wan-Bissaka sadly seems far away from being positionally up to it. For example, I could see us going for Kounde (though Chelsea may well come back for him) or Timber, which is to say a speedy right-sided defender type and shaping up like this:

---Mason/Rashford---Cristiano-----------------------------
----------------------------------------Bruno------------Sancho
------------------------VDB/8----------------------------------------
Shaw------------------------DM----------------------------------
----------------------------------------------RCB/RB---------------
---------------Maguire----Varane------------------------------
-------------------------------De Gea------------------------------

Mancini probably won't be the manager, but this is how he played at the Euros since Italy don't really have a good attacking right back, with Chiesa as Sancho providing width so that the left-sided Insigne can come inside a lot more (suits Rashford and possibly Greenwood even on the left) , Di Lorenzo as Timber, Bruno as Barella on the right as the most attacking midfielder and a sitting DM and a #8 in a trio.

Though long-term you'd figure it's just a normal front 3 with Sancho and Rashford wide of a central Greenwood with Bruno on the right of a midfield 3 with a DM and someone on the left of the 3 (VDB, Pogba or a new player) and then a standard back 4 with Shaw at LB, Varane at RCB, Maguire/Lindelof or a new LCB and then a new right back unless the next manager really takes to and improves Wan-Bissaka or Dalot.

TLDR: Sancho and Shaw are our best wide players and Telles likes to attack too, so having them ensuring width and an unbalanced formation that allows Sancho to be higher up the pitch than the left-sided wide player (Shaw or Telles) seems logical enough and a way to get Sancho on the field providing assists to the front 2 without using him at wingback.

 

[Abraxas]

I think ultimately if we put the climate around the manager and the club aside, it's not that weird.

Once you accept that 3-5-2 is worth persisting with (personally I'm not sure on this but it's not ridiculous) then it is abundantly clear Sancho is struggling for a role.

Ultimately Sancho is one football player, albeit a very expensive and hopefully talented one, so we don't necessarily build a formation around his best role at the expense of the team. But we possibly do want to find a way to utilise him. It's not that stupid, particularly in a training session - we don't even know if it will see the light of day.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Why should we have to play a back 3 at all? Why is that suddenly the solution versus what we did for the first 2.5 years that ole was here?

We’ve been badly exposed this year trying to play on the front foot and the coaches have shown they know next to nothing other than sitting in and counter attack as a tactic. Sancho doesn’t deserve this.

Well obviously you have to play more of your backups at your thinnest position so as to keep the starters at your deepest position out of the lineup, duh

 

[Bepi]

Because this nobody was purchased as a winger but is now being tasked by his scattergun manager to play as a wingback.

Haaland is physically imposing, you wouldn’t have put him at Centreback. Trial & error is fine if the manager in question has credit in the bank with that method but this just reeks of OgS in firefighting mode throwing sh*t at the wall & hoping it sticks to save his job. He could try Dalot at FB before trying Sancho at WB but no, he’s already formed his opinion on the prior.

Why the feck would you pay a massive fee for one of the most exciting and productive players (let alone young players) in Europe just to experiment with playing him at a position that does not even remotely align with his best attributes?

He is 21, he has not done anything relevant yet, he is just an expensive prospect, like too many England’s youngsters peaking at 20-21, only to disappear at 23-24. Come on, putting him on par with Haaland, really? And more, we have even seen Messi doing the crocodile for Pochettino at PSG and Solskjaer cannot try Sancho at WB in training? At worst, Sancho will learn a bit more defending, which will only make him a more rounded player.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He is 21, he has not done anything relevant yet, he is just an expensive prospect, like too many England’s youngsters peaking at 20-21, only to disappear at 23-24. Come on, putting him on par with Haaland, really? And more, we have even seen Messi doing the crocodile for Pochettino at PSG and Solskjaer cannot try Sancho at WB in training? At worst, Sancho will learn a bit more defending, which will only make him a more rounded player.

What the feck? No one said he was "on par with Haaland" - you've completely missed the point.

Also, not sure you want to be drawing parallels between the defensive workrate of Sancho and Messi - no matter how many crocodiles are getting done during training? Unclear as to your terminology, apologies.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

It’s a nothing story. Another paper’s claiming Sancho wanted Cavani to give up the No.7 shirt before he would sign.
Press are scrambling for clickbait stories as the Ole out headlines haven’t materialised yet.

 

[RepardReece]

Yeah, no question. Wan-Bissaka sadly seems far away from being positionally up to it. For example, I could see us going for Kounde (though Chelsea may well come back for him) or Timber, which is to say a speedy right-sided defender type and shaping up like this:

---Mason/Rashford---Cristiano-----------------------------
----------------------------------------Bruno------------Sancho
------------------------VDB/8----------------------------------------
Shaw------------------------DM----------------------------------
----------------------------------------------RCB/RB---------------
---------------Maguire----Varane------------------------------
-------------------------------De Gea------------------------------

Mancini probably won't be the manager, but this is how he played at the Euros since Italy don't really have a good attacking right back, with Chiesa as Sancho providing width so that the left-sided Insigne can come inside a lot more (suits Rashford and possibly Greenwood even on the left) , Di Lorenzo as Timber, Bruno as Barella on the right as the most attacking midfielder and a sitting DM and a #8 in a trio.

Though long-term you'd figure it's just a normal front 3 with Sancho and Rashford wide of a central Greenwood with Bruno on the right of a midfield 3 with a DM and someone on the left of the 3 (VDB, Pogba or a new player) and then a standard back 4 with Shaw at LB, Varane at RCB, Maguire/Lindelof or a new LCB and then a new right back unless the next manager really takes to and improves Wan-Bissaka or Dalot.

TLDR: Sancho and Shaw are our best wide players and Telles likes to attack too, so having them ensuring width and an unbalanced formation that allows Sancho to be higher up the pitch than the left-sided wide player (Shaw or Telles) seems logical enough and a way to get Sancho on the field providing assists to the front 2 without using him at wingback.

I do actually quite like this. Too bad Ole is not clever enough to come up with such a system

 

[Oranges038]

What on Earth are you talking about? Of course it's additive to the piece - he's struggled to hit the ground running and now there's a new obstacle in his way because Ole is using a 3-5-2. How can you possibly suggest that it isn't relevant to report that Sancho has been training in a different position on that basis? Do you think it was crowbarred into the piece? Believe you mentioned earlier that you haven't even read it so why do you think you should be expressing editorial decisions?

You seem to be confusing The Athletic with Man United's PR firm - why should a reporter withhold interesting and meaningful information that is relevant to what is being published? Because it might be perceived that they are pushing for clicks? Come off it mate - just accept that it's a legitimate story from a credible source. Not everything is a witch hunt.

Ah i read it afterwards, found it for free and all amazingly enough.

I'm not sayings it's a witch hunt.

How is him playing as a wing back in training a couple of times in any way pertinent to the documentation of his early struggles at his new club?

One small bit of the article is being referenced by the author on twitter and is sensationalized by other media outlets and subsequently being given more attention and coverage than the rest of the article.

And it is all done for clicks. Even the authors own headline is click baity.

 

[Bepi]

What the feck? No one said he was "on par with Haaland" - you've completely missed the point.

Also, not sure you want to be drawing parallels between the defensive workrate of Sancho and Messi - no matter how many crocodiles are getting done during training? Unclear as to your terminology, apologies.

The crocodile is that ridicolous position one player takes on the ground against set pieces near your box, in order to prevent a low shot if the wall jumps high. That said, you are really being fished by this clickbaiting story, it is pretty normal to do a lot of strange things in training… but fecking Messi doing a crocodile for Pochettino is meme material and a real sackable offence.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He is 21, he has not done anything relevant yet, he is just an expensive prospect, like too many England’s youngsters peaking at 20-21, only to disappear at 23-24. Come on, putting him on par with Haaland, really? And more, we have even seen Messi doing the crocodile for Pochettino at PSG and Solskjaer cannot try Sancho at WB in training? At worst, Sancho will learn a bit more defending, which will only make him a more rounded player.

If you the sum of your response is me putting him on a par with Haaland you’ve not really read the post. Bayern didn’t sign Upamecano & try him as a striker, maybe that sits better.

Have you seen the stagnation of our players coached by OgS & more so the state of our defence? ‘At worst, Sancho will learn a bit more defending, which will only make him a more rounded player.’, Sancho will not become a better defender.

The boy has played less than 10 games, no need for the mental gymnastics about yet another wasted squad member under this manager. It’s this continued justification of these questionable decision OgS makes that sees us in the predicament we’re in. Sancho suddenly at Wingback in a Wingerless formation is one of the worst pieces of squad building you’ll see but no, let’s excuse this bullsh*t again.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Ah i read it afterwards, found it for free and all amazingly enough.

I'm not sayings it's a witch hunt.

How is him playing as a wing back in training a couple of times in any way pertinent to the documentation of his early struggles at his new club?

One small bit of the article is being referenced by the author on twitter and is sensationalized by other media outlets and subsequently being given more attention and coverage than the rest of the article.

And it is all done for clicks. Even the authors own headline is click baity.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????

First of all, where are you getting "a couple of times" in terms of training? Second of all, how can you possibly think that being asked to change position out of the blue wouldn't impact his ability to settle in and adapt to a new way of playing?

 

[Bepi]

If you the sum of your response is me putting him on a par with Haaland you’ve not really read the post. Bayern didn’t sign Upamecano & try him as a striker, maybe that sits better.

Have you seen the stagnation of our players coached by OgS & more so the state of our defence? ‘At worst, Sancho will learn a bit more defending, which will only make him a more rounded player.’, Sancho will not become a better defender.

The boy has played less than 10 games, no need for the mental gymnastics about yet another wasted squad member under this manager. It’s this continued justification of these questionable decision OgS makes that sees us in the predicament we’re in. Sancho suddenly at Wingback in a Wingerless formation is one of the worst pieces of squad building you’ll see but no, let’s excuse this bullsh*t again.

I mean… we have De Ligt, 22, at Juventus playing the understudy of Bonucci and Chiellini on a pretty sh*t team with sh*t or mad managers since two years and half, without having ever said anything bad, on the contrary being grateful for the formative experience. De Ligt. The best CB prospect in the game. When he enters his prime, at 26 or 27, he will fondly remember all the undeserved sh*t he had to eat to learn his trade in a consistent manner.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

The crocodile is that ridicolous position one player takes on the ground against set pieces near your box, in order to prevent a low shot if the wall jumps high. That said, you are really being fished by this clickbaiting story, it is pretty normal to do a lot of strange things in training… but fecking Messi doing a crocodile for Pochettino is meme material and a real sackable offence.

So you think Messi laying down to provide a better set piece contribution defensively than normal is comparable to Sancho being used out of position entirely? Why do you think that asking someone to lie down behind a wall is more burdensome than asking them to change more or less the fundamentals of how they play football?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I just saw this.

We're actually a laughingstock of a club

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Second of all, how can you possibly think that being asked to change position out of the blue wouldn't impact his ability to settle in and adapt to a new way of playing?

I’m really hating agreeing with a Chelsea fan again!

Sancho has played less than 10 games & posters are climbing over themselves to write him off yet no ones looking at the man that apparently wanted him for 2 years, having watched him play as a winger, to say let’s try him at Wingback 10 games into his United career.

The cult of OgS is ridiculous.

 

[Bepi]

So you think Messi laying down to provide a better set piece contribution defensively than normal is comparable to Sancho being used out of position entirely? Why do you think that asking someone to lie down behind a wall is more burdensome than asking them to change more or less the fundamentals of how they play football?

Because it is humiliating for the GOAT at 34 (and for the game of football at large), to be asked to lie down on the ground for a set piece. That just shows Pochettino being a moron.

It is not humiliating at all for Sancho, 21, just a prospect, to be drilled in training in any form his manager demands.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I’m really hating agreeing with a Chelsea fan again!

Sancho has played less than 10 games & posters are climbing over themselves to write him off yet no ones looking at the man that apparently wanted him for 2 years, having watched him play as a winger, to say let’s try him at Wingback 10 games into his United career.

The cult of OgS is ridiculous.

It is genuinely mind-blowing from my perspective as an outsider that you would pay a huge (but entirely justifiable) fee for a god-tier young player only to shoehorn him into a role that makes no sense having played him what, 500 minutes total? I also promise this isn't solely down to bitterness at me taking him in the second round of my fantasy EPL draft!

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I mean… we have De Ligt, 22, at Juventus playing the understudy of Bonucci and Chiellini on a pretty sh*t team with sh*t or mad managers since two years and half, without having ever said anything bad, on the contrary being grateful for the formative experience. De Ligt. The best CB prospect in the game. When he enters his prime, at 26 or 27, he will fondly remember all the undeserved sh*t he had to eat to learn his trade in a consistent manner.

You’ve not understood the point at all. I’m hoping you’re being wilfully ignorant because that is a rather dim rebuttal.

de Ligt is an understudy to 2 established CBs, Juve haven’t suddenly told him to go play Left Wing. Sancho isn’t an understudy to any established wingers, because. . . we aren’t playing wingers anymore, thus is being told to play an unfamiliar position.

If you can’t comprehend the rather stark difference between the Sancho situation & the irrelevant example you’ve provided then quite frankly you’re lost.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Because it is humiliating for the GOAT at 34 (and for the game of football at large), to be asked to lie down on the ground for a set piece. That just shows Pochettino being a moron.

It is not humiliating at all for Sancho, 21, just a prospect, to be drilled in training in any form his manager demands.

Why is it humiliating? He's contributing more to set piece defense than he ever has at any point in his career. It also doesn't require huge amounts of training obviously. Equating that with asking a young player to learn another position is absolutely bizarre, to say the least.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It is genuinely mind-blowing from my perspective as an outsider that you would pay a huge (but entirely justifiable) fee for a god-tier young player only to shoehorn him into a role that makes no sense having played him what, 500 minutes total? I also promise this isn't solely down to bitterness at me taking him in the second round of my fantasy EPL draft!

The cult of OgS has been the root of some of the strangest hills I’ve seen posters die on.

 

[SilentStrike]

Proper scouting job we did there

It was but then there was the last-minute purchase of Ronaldo and the tactics are now tailored to him. Ole surely had a plan for Sancho but it's thrown out of the window.

 

[Bepi]

You’ve not understood the point at all. I’m hoping you’re being wilfully ignorant because that is a rather dim rebuttal.

de Ligt is an understudy to 2 established CBs, Juve haven’t suddenly told him to go play Left Wing. Sancho isn’t an understudy to any established wingers, because. . . we aren’t playing wingers anymore, thus is being told to play an unfamiliar position.

If you can’t comprehend the rather stark difference between the Sancho situation & the irrelevant example you’ve provided then quite frankly you’re lost.

Why is it humiliating? He's contributing more to set piece defense than he ever has at any point in his career. It also doesn't require huge amounts of training obviously. Equating that with asking a young player to learn another position is absolutely bizarre, to say the least.

Folks, I am Italian, my understanding of football, albeit limited, comes from the environment I’m in. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Folks, I am Italian, my understanding of football, albeit limited, comes from the environment I’m in. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

Fair point. I think we got our wires crossed. I didn’t know what a crocodile was either so your knowledge is far greater than mine.

 

[Oranges038]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????

First of all, where are you getting "a couple of times" in terms of training? Second of all, how can you possibly think that being asked to change position out of the blue wouldn't impact his ability to settle in and adapt to a new way of playing?

A couple, several, a few minutes every day for a week. What does it matter? The whole discussion around the article has just centred down on this one little bit that's been picked out of it.

The point I am making is that this whole thing is designed purely for clickbait. His headline and the headlines of those who quoted it as a source.

Good night.

 

[arthurka]

If this is true it's next level of incompetence. It's like buying a Mini when you need a double decker. Just no.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Folks, I am Italian, my understanding of football, albeit limited, comes from the environment I’m in. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

My Italian is still even more atrocious than my Portuguese but having learned a bit from my sister-in-law - vi auguro una bella serata...?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

A couple, several, a few minutes every day for a week. What does it matter? The whole discussion around the article has just centred down on this one little bit that's been picked out of it.

The point I am making is that this whole thing is designed purely for clickbait. His headline and the headlines of those who quoted it as a source.

Good night.

What? What kind of training do you think United are doing? Do you think it's a matter of spending 30 minutes a week to train in a different position? I actually suspect that this might be uncomfortably close to the truth which is awfully damning in and of itself...

My point is that it is almost the opposite of clickbait. His headline makes no mention of training at RWB. If the intent was clickbait then he certainly wouldn't have completely buried the lede.

 

[Denis79]

Because it is humiliating for the GOAT at 34 (and for the game of football at large), to be asked to lie down on the ground for a set piece. That just shows Pochettino being a moron.

It is not humiliating at all for Sancho, 21, just a prospect, to be drilled in training in any form his manager demands.

He has proven himself in his position, he is a international for the England national team. What a ridiculous post.

 

[Womp]

They don't know how to get the best out of him as our football is fecking rubbish. We just gotta hope the manager is gone before these players get too sick of it. He's not the only one struggling with similar circumstances

 

[criticalanalysis]

It's a small part of an article about Sancho first months and struggle at United. Truth be told, the only reason there is 13 pages is because we are collectively unhinged and need something to focus on.

Indeed. I am still reading the forums but I feel like I have nothing 'fresh' to input as it's all been said already; I'm also refraining from posting in the player's performances threads because as far as I'm concerned, it's unfair to go into depth/critique until we get a new manager in.

 

[Reddi]

What a project ???? Buy 1 RW after 2year follows 73M and try play him in RWB ? Wowwww. Real stress....
It same with buy 40m AM Debeek and not use him, Call Lingaar, dalot return and not use them....etc.....
BIG OLE PROJECT

 

[AussieDevil]

There were a bunch of interviews the English players did during the previous international break and almost each player listed Sancho as the most creative and skillful player in the squad. And he is the first natural winger we have had in a decade. And we are going to play him as a wing-back?

 

[Jackal981]

For a number of reasons, soccer cannot be nerdified in full as american football or basketball, with stats and patterns, therefore clickbaiting is needed to justify nerdy subscription models, and The Athletic sell themselves as sport rocket scientists where soccer is a dynamic, luck-oriented, non-closed game, then…

in this particular instance, training is just training, uh? Trial and error, finding a niche for young players, even to have a baseline benchmark, a lot of times. And Sancho is just a very expensive Mr Nobody at this stage, not fitting anywhere. Why the manager should not be allowed to see (in training!) how he gets on at a different position?

Dont need an ounce of brain cell to realize that a player who cannot defend well, hate playing in touchline and have no burst of speed wont work as RWB in 352. It’s like Conte using Hazard as LWB which you never see. Why dont we try Maguire in training as GK too since he is useless everywhere

 

[L_O_S_T]

Its madness that the coaches are going to persist with 3-5-2 when we have spent the last 2 years buying 3 wingers (Amad, Pellestri, Sancho), and we barely have any specialist wing backs nor enough quality and depth of centre backs to play a back 3.