huh? By bringing home a citizen from a penal colony?
The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter Raoul
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this is the guy that we swapped for a US citizen that brought in illegal marijuana....how can you not say Biden got his pants pulled down
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/vikto...s-men-by-former-dea-chief-in-2010-60-minutes/
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/vikto...s-men-by-former-dea-chief-in-2010-60-minutes/
Because she is an American citizen draconianly incarcerated in a terrorism state. You think she should have been left there?
Britney Griner is no typical citzen of the U.S.. You either bring home someone or none, especially when the crime or accusation does not fit the punishment. Whelan has been detained since December 2018 accused of espionage.
Their cases were never linked to each other, however Britney's detainment raised the awareness and some possibilites for Whelan, but as an additional incremental swap or exchange.
Seems that one looks like high enough chip value to trade for dunno, some soldier or person of service if there is such person left behind.
And who was President of the US at the time of Whelan's detaining and even was incahoots with Putin? Right, right. So Agent Orange actually saw this and was totally unsuccessful. Biden inherited Trump's mess and Trump is deflecting blame. Sounds pretty spot on for Trump. The hypocracy is just insane.
Yep. Some are forgetting that fact.
I'm not lumping @bosskeano in this, but I have seen a lot of takes that are angry that a black lesbian got this "privilege" over a white dude.
Also, feck this view that people are fecking playing cards that should be viewed as varying levels of importance. The very fact people are even talking in this sort of language is sickening. Y'all should take a hard fecking look at yourselves.
And we should do everything possible to bring him home too.
Biden literally said it was BG or no one. Also, is everyone forgetting they got Trevor Reed home just months ago???
Also, feck this view that people are fecking playing cards that should be viewed as varying levels of importance. The very fact people are even talking in this sort of language is sickening. Y'all should take a hard fecking look at yourselves.
Dunno why throwing shit, when none is clean clean.
I'm not attempting to play Top Trump's here but I would have said that BG is by far and away the "Highest Profile" American in a Russian Jail too.
At least in my (fairly uneducated) opinion.
Like i would believe what Biden or any politician`s claim, not American so it was a general view, also miss me with that enraged shaming attempt.
Maybe by public recognition, but as a black lesbian there is about 40% of this country who would not blink an eye if she was dropped out of a helicopter.
I have no doubt shame is something that often misses.
Oh noes...anyway
Of course , there's been tonnes of articles about her for months.
Her public profile (and the subsequent media attention) translates into more trading power for Russia.
Of course her skin colour and sexual orientation make her an easy target for the deplorables but they would have been the same people criticising Biden for letting her rot over there too.
Besides if I was "Lord of War" guy I would he pretty terrified at the prospect of being interrogated by the Russians as they try and discover what he spilled to the Americans.
Are people under the impression he's going to start arms dealing again tomorrow?
People are under the impression that his handiwork will start killing Americans tomorrow.
I agree that the punishment didn't fit the crime but that is what you get when you travel to a foreign country as their laws and how they utilize them are different. She knowingly brought a narcotic into a foreign country and found guilty should should have had to accept some sort of punishment. No, i don't think she should have been left there given the outrageous sentence they actually gave her.
At the same token, what we gave up is SOOOOO far beyond a reasonable trade. This is a guy that has plotted to kill Americans and helped other regimes plot to kill Americans.
Griner is a basketball player so how does that make her anymore special of a citizen than anyone else? This was PURELY a political stunt and i don't honestly see how you guys can't admit that. I don't honestly care if she is white, green, black, orange, straight, gay, nonbinary...whatever. But in politics, image is everything.
She made the choice to go to Russia and bring a narcotic into that country. Again i reiterate, the punishment was outrageous for what was done.
If anyone's immediate health is in danger I'd say it's Viktors personally.
Those type of people are like cockroaches, there is always some deal/trade behind to be made, just depends what kind of cards he has.
So, by this philosophy you are fine that we left Otto Warmbier in North Korea until he died? After all, he broke the law and tried to leave the country with a poster.
Should leave Marc Fogel in Russia as well since he had possession of marijuana?
Of course it was a political stunt, as was her incarceration. As was Fogels, Warmbier's, Whelan's, and Reeds. None of that diminishes the responsibility of the US government to bring them home.
Probably not much, he's been in prison for a decade.
I doubt his rolodex is very valuable in terms of military business these days
They probably only want him back to find out what he told the Americans about his involvement in shady Russian business pre arrest.
Everything by default because political when different countries, governments, and citizens are involved. Trying to get back a citizen and potentially others demands political, govenment, and lawful action. Government is serving its citizens.
Trump walking to St. John's Church and holding a bible during George Floyd protests across the country...now that's a political stunt that served no purpose but for one person
Stolen from Reddit;
As a counter all to the knee-jerk negative reactions and people casually tossing around "Most Dangerous Man in the World" and "Merchant of Death" as if Bout were some sort of supervillian at the peak of his powers, I'll just defer to one of the experts:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/08/brittney-griner-russia-viktor-bout-00044556
"So why even consider the potential offer? First, Bout is a spent force who will be out of jail in a few years anyway. His business depended on personal relationships and trust among the parties. After being out of the business for more than a decade, Bout has neither of those left in the shadowy world in which he once operated. Second, Bout needed access to a global network stretching from Afghanistan to Europe, Africa and South America. That network has morphed through several generations of new actors, markets and gatekeepers. Bout has no currency in that world now.
Finally, Bout depended in the early years on the gross negligence of the former Soviet states to allow him to simply fly out aircraft and weapons in a spree of de facto privatization of one of the world’s most advanced arsenals. In his later years, he was reined in by the Russian state under Putin, no longer able to freelance at will and without unfettered access to massive caches of weapons. It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services, and now he is burned beyond the ability to be useful in any significant capacity."
\- Douglas Farah, president of IBI Consultants, LLC, and co-author of *Merchant of Death: Money, Guns, Planes and the Man Who Makes War Possible*
As a counter all to the knee-jerk negative reactions and people casually tossing around "Most Dangerous Man in the World" and "Merchant of Death" as if Bout were some sort of supervillian at the peak of his powers, I'll just defer to one of the experts:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/08/brittney-griner-russia-viktor-bout-00044556
"So why even consider the potential offer? First, Bout is a spent force who will be out of jail in a few years anyway. His business depended on personal relationships and trust among the parties. After being out of the business for more than a decade, Bout has neither of those left in the shadowy world in which he once operated. Second, Bout needed access to a global network stretching from Afghanistan to Europe, Africa and South America. That network has morphed through several generations of new actors, markets and gatekeepers. Bout has no currency in that world now.
Finally, Bout depended in the early years on the gross negligence of the former Soviet states to allow him to simply fly out aircraft and weapons in a spree of de facto privatization of one of the world’s most advanced arsenals. In his later years, he was reined in by the Russian state under Putin, no longer able to freelance at will and without unfettered access to massive caches of weapons. It is unlikely he would have any freedom of movement in the weapons trade unless he was in the direct service of the Russian intelligence services, and now he is burned beyond the ability to be useful in any significant capacity."
\- Douglas Farah, president of IBI Consultants, LLC, and co-author of *Merchant of Death: Money, Guns, Planes and the Man Who Makes War Possible*
Oh man if he could just piss of conservatives this much every day I think I could actually stop eating and live of the energy delivered from watching their melt downs.
Sorry @Abizzz , you can’t be happy about this. BG’s life was not worth trading for and Biden got played. No way the US will have enough points now to win the imaginary “Who Got a Better Deal” game now.
Nah I hope he orders the IRS to dig up Reagans grave tomorrow to look for Trumps tax returns.
Given Fox News etc. viewership driving up their blood pressure on a continual basis for 2 years might actually be a viable election strategy for 2024. Can't vote if you're so pissed off that you fell over dead.
There's no way you can justify this exchange.
She was rightly imprisoned (albeit harshly) for commiting a crime in russia and she's been swapped with an arms dealer for god sake.
Its made America and the president look small amd pathetic.
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This exchange is incredibly easy to justify. A high profile American was being held as a political pawn by a terrorist state. The American government saw an opportunity to exchange a foreign national who had already spent 14 years in jail, and who was set to be released in 7 years anyways, to bring a citizen home. 99% of the people "outraged" by this had no idea who he was 24 hours ago.
It is the role of every government to protect its citizens, it is why we empower them in the first place.
An arms dealer who was probably going to be released within a few years anyway, and whom the judge thought perhaps was sentenced too harshly (or so I've read).
It made America look humane in my eyes, as a non-American. If other countries start to take this as a sign to hold any American that crosses their path as pathetic, then that can be retaliated against by other means. Meanwhile the State Dept should continue to work on getting the release of other Americans that are unfairly detained.
A situation that made America look small for example was the prior administration not giving a shit about a US permanent resident who was murdered and had his body dismembered by a supposed ally, then the current administration acting like it was a big deal but giving up on that too once oil prices got a touch high.
EDIT: It made America look as humane as I think it is when a US citizen is kidnapped in places that are more lawless such as Somalia, and when the opportunity arises the US will risk highly-trained personnel and expensive equipment in efforts to rescue them. The same thing could be said about those Americans, that they shouldn't be in Somalia or such. But you probably don't say that it's a bad deal then, because it seems a lot more badass than trading away an arms dealer that's been in jail for 9 years.
Reminds me of the time Trump pretty much agreed to extradite 11 American citizens, including government officials, and one Brit to Russia, while stood next to Putin at the Helsinki summit. Sending the state department into a full blown panic.
This is such a bizarre take. I can't relate at all.
First, she mistakenly brought a little marijuana into the country. Marijuana is not a narcotic. Nowadays, a narcotic is opiate-based drugs like heroin. Very different than a little vape pen of THC. You make it sound like she was smuggling in kis of fentanyl. Second, bringing in marijuana is a far lesser crime in the grand scheme than espionage. Third, Britney Griner is an ordinary citizen, Paul Whelan is a criminal who was court-martialed for "attempted larceny, three specifications of dereliction of duty, making a false official statement, wrongfully using another’s social security number, and ten specifications of making and uttering checks without having sufficient funds in his account for payment." To just say he "served" is very misleading. The guy is a criminal and even if he wasn't there to spy for the US in an official capacity (which he very well might have been doing anyway), his background certainly implies he was up to no good in Russia.
Negotiating for the release of a citizen who broke only the most minor of local violations (that shouldn't even be illegal anywhere in 2022) is exactly what a leader of any country should do in these circumstances. It makes no sense to call it a "political stunt" unless you believe that any prisoner negotiation is just a "stunt". Personally, I think it's the most humane thing to do, to negotiate the release of a good citizen imprisoned based on insane draconian laws (and yes the US imprisoning people for smoking marijuana is also draconian).
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Seems like Americans are pleased that Ms. Grinner is coming home.
We should be careful not to fall into the Trumpy trap of relying on single polls for approval rating. The four other polls in the 538 tracker (ending from the 6th) have Biden well behind.
The poll was conducted Dec 6-8, so unlikely that it has any particular impact on it.
Just interesting how a right leaning poll offers up such results.
Fair enough, I was speculating based on cal's earlier approval rating post while waiting for a cheeseburger and fries.
That’a true, but it’s interesting that he’s doing so well with a pollster with conservative bias.
His face in the final frame is meme worthy.