I thought a breakdown like this deserves a thread on its own. To watch and learn from what they've been through as we fare along a similar path.
I basically got curious as @JPRouve said the owners, FSG, weren't football people.
I decided to have an in-depth look at their decisions and what transfer-strategy Liverpool has had, and how much patience the fans have had.
I took a look at what transfers they've made since FSG entered in 2010 (October) when all was doom and gloom. It took a looong time to get to where they are now.
Here's the list of the most mention-worthy transfers with comments on each season:
10/11 - FSG takes over
FSG takes over in October. Hires Dalglish in January, as he's the popular choice of the fans (Woy out).
The club is in complete meltdown. This is probably not far from where United is at the moment.
They take chances in the transfer-market as the fans demand a new Torres, Carroll's the worst buy of the theirs, Suarez turns out great.
11/12 - Dalglish the new messiah signs some downers. Fails.
Manager: Kenny Dalglish
An underwhelming transfer window, and the King Kenny ship is abandoned as they play quite crap and finish 8th. They win the league cup, their only trophy since 2005 till now, and lose the FA Cup against Chelsea.
12/13 - Patience and belief in an up and coming manager (Brenda)
Manager: Brendan Rodgers
Rodgers only manages to get them up by one place in the table and finishes 7th behind Everton
13/14 - The almost season
The slipping season. Rodgers with the help of Suarez/Gerrard manages to get them far.
Rodgers takes Liverpool from 7th to almost 1st (Liverpool™). Pretty big achievement it has to be said.
14/15 - Belief in Rodgers goes down the drain
Can't hold on to Suarez any longer, which funds a big shopping spree / revamp.
Without star-man Suarez, and a lot of new players to integrate into the squad, Rodgers finishes 6th. A lot of pressure is building up, after Liverpool sees that they're capable of 2nd place.
15/16 - Klopp signs. Long-term patience in a new system
Klopp signs in October. All players below are not Klopp signings, but signings in the summer under Brendan
Liverpool drops to 8th again, but go far in Europa League. Finishes 2nd to Sevilla. A lot of enthusiasm before the Europa League final, but a lot of disappointment from losing the final and missing out on CL. The team is playing entertaining football, which might keep the hopes and patience up.
16/17 - Klopp "only" gets 4th despite of no European competitions. Patience is tested.
Klopp has time to put his mark on the team, and now it's time to put his mark on the transfers and squad
Out goes the deadwood, and technical players for Klopp's system are brought in. He's still hindered by a lack of budget for defence.
Liverpool finishes 4th. Not a lot going on despite not playing in Europe, goes out early in the FA Cup and reaches the semi final in the league cup to Southampton. Keeps patience in Klopp though. This could go both ways.
17/18 - The system works and Salah fits perfectly
Salah is bought in the summer. Has his first great season.
Except from a 4-0 win against Arsenal, Liverpool lose a lot of points early on in the season, which makes them chase.
Loses 5-0 to City early on, but the club plays entertaining football and gathers pace again around November. Salah is playing great and Mané has developed into a key player.
Coutinho is sold and this funds other players. Liverpool's playing-style is demanding and players are close to adapting fully. They reach the final and lose to Real Madrid. A solid defence is finally on the verge with the signing of Van Dijk. Karius fecks it all up.
18/19 - A full Klopp squad is built. Competing everywhere.
Klopp tries to adress the last problems of the squad:
Competes with City, a team with a much higher transfer-budget, probably will win CL, and are competing for Premier League down to the last day of the season.
19/20:
- Probably buy some talents for competition, and a suiting partner for Van Dijk
Summary of their transfer-strategy and behaviour of the board.
Mainly due to being in a poor position transferwise and unable to compete with big clubs for top players, Liverpool in the early days of FSG, turn to buying up-and-coming talents from midtable clubs (Southampton/Hoffenheim) or clubs like Inter/Ajax as they don't have much choice. Some works well (Suarez) - Some goes horribly wrong (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli). They take a lot of chances in that regard, as they probably have to.
They then hire Kenny Dalglish, which is the fan's choice. He's on holiday sipping margaritas, and is inexperienced - yet the fans want him. This marks a moment where the owners act based on what the fans want. Sort of like what we've done now with Solskjær.
It's then Rodgers turn, and the fans decide to have a bit of patience / try something new and talented. After taking Liverpool to 2nd, they then lose patience in Rodgers the season after. They finish 7th below Everton and the manager is no longer backed. Sacked early next season.
Klopp then enters. It takes some time to getting used to his new system of running and pressing and the fans are patient after many years of depression. The fanbase understand that success doesn't come overnight and long-term patience is required. Klopp actually still has a lot of players from old squads, who he still uses (Key players like Milner, Firmino, Lovren, Henderson, Coutinho are bought before him) so it's not like he's changed the whole squad (yet).
Klopp:
Klopp's squad sits on top of the previous transfer-strategy to buy up and coming talents, but he's finally putting his mark on the team after year 2 and 3.
He doesn't have a lot of primadonnas or overpaid stars to sort out when he enters the club (like us), but ships out Aspas, Borini, Benteke, etc as they're simply not good enough. One of the reasons why he doesn't have a lot of primadonnas to sort out is probably because Liverpool haven't bought a lot of players who's already been at the top and think very highly of themselves and are on huge wages. This is one of our current major problems, and why Solskjær starts off way worse than Kenny or Klopp. It's probably also a cause for concern for a future manager to take over Man Utd. It's a heavy process to ship out the deadwood at our club and start a new project - Klopp at least did not have this problem.
Klopp then gets nearly all of his transfers spot on. Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Alisson. They fit his system. There's actually no waste of money at all, except maybe for Karius / Klavan, who were also bought because of not being able to get in better players / unable to compete in the market.
Then he fixes the last hurdles, by signing Alisson and creates some healthy competition in the squad. He's now able to win matches with patience due to the defence getting fixed.
Our case - why we are different
In our case with Solskjær, he enters our club at a point full of problems to sort out, and 1 year wont be enough to lay a solid foundation for any manager. We're in early days of rebuilding a solid platform here. Klopp didn't have a lot of overpaid players to ship out before starting a new project.
Contrary to Liverpool, our transfer targets fits certain criterias of marketability. That's never really the case with Liverpool's signings - they rarely buy old players or keep old players. They buy players on the verge of breaking through like Mane, Firmino, Salah, Van Dijk - Not marketable players like Dybala.
Current players like this would be Maddison, Richarlison, Sancho, etc. They've bought players who haven't achieved anything yet, and are hungry, but not for attention / big wages. Contrary to Liverpool, we have a bigger wallet, which also attracts other types of players. Liverpool are a bit more fast to ship them out though. Benteke (42m ) and Balotelli (20m ) are gone fast. Either loaned out or sold fast.
Also we probably still have a bigger pulling power commercially and a lot of players of the current generation has grown up watching Man Utd's success of the 90's / 00's.
Patience needed to build a strong platform
It's taken ages to ship out deadwood currently at our club. If we're not patient as fans and understand how long time it takes to sort out a mess like this, we'll sack Solskjær after 1 year, and then we're back to finding a new manager, who might not want Solskjær's transfers. That could be a lot of money wasted in a transfer-window if we're just trying to plaster it over (again) with big commercial names, who are not hungry anymore. It's pretty evident that we don't have hungry players or players with enough quality. The players Klopp has signed are hard-working and also very technical players who can play and press fast.
We're still at the stage where we have a Frankenstein of a team from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho.
The least we could do is have a transfer-strategy that fits more than the here and now manager, while we clear out the bad weed from the garden that creates a bad culture. One day we might get a Klopp, but even Klopp had a reasonable platform to start new from.
We're truly in deep trouble, that we can't fix in 1 or maybe even 2 years. We need to step back and look at the big picture
Thoughts?
I basically got curious as @JPRouve said the owners, FSG, weren't football people.
I decided to have an in-depth look at their decisions and what transfer-strategy Liverpool has had, and how much patience the fans have had.
I took a look at what transfers they've made since FSG entered in 2010 (October) when all was doom and gloom. It took a looong time to get to where they are now.
Here's the list of the most mention-worthy transfers with comments on each season:
10/11 - FSG takes over
FSG takes over in October. Hires Dalglish in January, as he's the popular choice of the fans (Woy out).
The club is in complete meltdown. This is probably not far from where United is at the moment.
They take chances in the transfer-market as the fans demand a new Torres, Carroll's the worst buy of the theirs, Suarez turns out great.
In:
- Suarez (Ajax)
- Carroll (Newcastle)
- A young Shelvey (Charlton)
Out:
- Torres
- Suarez (Ajax)
- Carroll (Newcastle)
- A young Shelvey (Charlton)
Out:
- Torres
11/12 - Dalglish the new messiah signs some downers. Fails.
Manager: Kenny Dalglish
An underwhelming transfer window, and the King Kenny ship is abandoned as they play quite crap and finish 8th. They win the league cup, their only trophy since 2005 till now, and lose the FA Cup against Chelsea.
In:
- Henderson (
- Downing (Boro)
- Charlie Adam
- Coates
- Bellamy on a free from City
Out:
- Meireles
- Poulsen
- Loaned out JoeMessi Cole
- Henderson (
- Downing (Boro)
- Charlie Adam
- Coates
- Bellamy on a free from City
Out:
- Meireles
- Poulsen
- Loaned out Joe
12/13 - Patience and belief in an up and coming manager (Brenda)
Manager: Brendan Rodgers
Rodgers only manages to get them up by one place in the table and finishes 7th behind Everton
In:
- Joe Allen
- Sturridge (Chelsea)
- Coutinho (Inter)
- Sahin (Real Madrid)
- Borini (Roma)
Out:
- Adam
- Aquilani
- Loaned out Carroll
- Joe Allen
- Sturridge (Chelsea)
- Coutinho (Inter)
- Sahin (Real Madrid)
- Borini (Roma)
Out:
- Adam
- Aquilani
- Loaned out Carroll
13/14 - The almost season
The slipping season. Rodgers with the help of Suarez/Gerrard manages to get them far.
Rodgers takes Liverpool from 7th to almost 1st (Liverpool™). Pretty big achievement it has to be said.
In:
- Aspas (Celta)
- Sakho (PSG)
- Mignolet (Sunderland)
- Luis Alberto (Sevilla)
Out:
- Candy Arroll
- Borini
- Downing
- Shelvey
- Aspas (Celta)
- Sakho (PSG)
- Mignolet (Sunderland)
- Luis Alberto (Sevilla)
Out:
- Candy Arroll
- Borini
- Downing
- Shelvey
14/15 - Belief in Rodgers goes down the drain
Can't hold on to Suarez any longer, which funds a big shopping spree / revamp.
Without star-man Suarez, and a lot of new players to integrate into the squad, Rodgers finishes 6th. A lot of pressure is building up, after Liverpool sees that they're capable of 2nd place.
In:
- Lallana (Southampton)
- Markovic (Benfica)
- Lovren (Southampton)
- Balotelli (AC Milan). Completely forgot about this
- Moreno (Sevilla)
- Origi (Lille)
- Emre Can (Leverkusen)
- Lambert (Southampton)
Out:
- Sold Suarez
- Sold Agger
- Lallana (Southampton)
- Markovic (Benfica)
- Lovren (Southampton)
- Balotelli (AC Milan). Completely forgot about this
- Moreno (Sevilla)
- Origi (Lille)
- Emre Can (Leverkusen)
- Lambert (Southampton)
Out:
- Sold Suarez
- Sold Agger
15/16 - Klopp signs. Long-term patience in a new system
Klopp signs in October. All players below are not Klopp signings, but signings in the summer under Brendan
Liverpool drops to 8th again, but go far in Europa League. Finishes 2nd to Sevilla. A lot of enthusiasm before the Europa League final, but a lot of disappointment from losing the final and missing out on CL. The team is playing entertaining football, which might keep the hopes and patience up.
In:
- Benteke (Aston Villa) - 41m gbp
- Firmino (Hoffenheim)
- Ings (Burnley)
- Joe Gomez (Charlton)
- Milner (City)
Out:
- Sterling
- Borini
- Aspas
- Benteke (Aston Villa) - 41m gbp
- Firmino (Hoffenheim)
- Ings (Burnley)
- Joe Gomez (Charlton)
- Milner (City)
Out:
- Sterling
- Borini
- Aspas
16/17 - Klopp "only" gets 4th despite of no European competitions. Patience is tested.
Klopp has time to put his mark on the team, and now it's time to put his mark on the transfers and squad
Out goes the deadwood, and technical players for Klopp's system are brought in. He's still hindered by a lack of budget for defence.
Liverpool finishes 4th. Not a lot going on despite not playing in Europe, goes out early in the FA Cup and reaches the semi final in the league cup to Southampton. Keeps patience in Klopp though. This could go both ways.
In:
- Mane
- Wijnaldum
- Karius
- Klavan
- Matip
Out:
- Benteke
- Ibe
- Joe Allen
- Skrtel
- Mane
- Wijnaldum
- Karius
- Klavan
- Matip
Out:
- Benteke
- Ibe
- Joe Allen
- Skrtel
17/18 - The system works and Salah fits perfectly
Salah is bought in the summer. Has his first great season.
Except from a 4-0 win against Arsenal, Liverpool lose a lot of points early on in the season, which makes them chase.
Loses 5-0 to City early on, but the club plays entertaining football and gathers pace again around November. Salah is playing great and Mané has developed into a key player.
Coutinho is sold and this funds other players. Liverpool's playing-style is demanding and players are close to adapting fully. They reach the final and lose to Real Madrid. A solid defence is finally on the verge with the signing of Van Dijk. Karius fecks it all up.
In:
- Salah (Roma)
- Chamberlain (Arsenal)
- Van Dijk (Southampton)
- Robertson (Hull)
Out:
- Coutinho
- Sakho
- Salah (Roma)
- Chamberlain (Arsenal)
- Van Dijk (Southampton)
- Robertson (Hull)
Out:
- Coutinho
- Sakho
18/19 - A full Klopp squad is built. Competing everywhere.
Klopp tries to adress the last problems of the squad:
Competes with City, a team with a much higher transfer-budget, probably will win CL, and are competing for Premier League down to the last day of the season.
In:
- Alisson (Roma)
- Keita (Leipzig)
- Fabinho (Monaco)
- Shaqiri (Stoke)
Out:
- Solanke
- Karius
- Klavan
- Markovic
- Can
- Alisson (Roma)
- Keita (Leipzig)
- Fabinho (Monaco)
- Shaqiri (Stoke)
Out:
- Solanke
- Karius
- Klavan
- Markovic
- Can
19/20:
- Probably buy some talents for competition, and a suiting partner for Van Dijk
Summary of their transfer-strategy and behaviour of the board.
Mainly due to being in a poor position transferwise and unable to compete with big clubs for top players, Liverpool in the early days of FSG, turn to buying up-and-coming talents from midtable clubs (Southampton/Hoffenheim) or clubs like Inter/Ajax as they don't have much choice. Some works well (Suarez) - Some goes horribly wrong (Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli). They take a lot of chances in that regard, as they probably have to.
They then hire Kenny Dalglish, which is the fan's choice. He's on holiday sipping margaritas, and is inexperienced - yet the fans want him. This marks a moment where the owners act based on what the fans want. Sort of like what we've done now with Solskjær.
It's then Rodgers turn, and the fans decide to have a bit of patience / try something new and talented. After taking Liverpool to 2nd, they then lose patience in Rodgers the season after. They finish 7th below Everton and the manager is no longer backed. Sacked early next season.
Klopp then enters. It takes some time to getting used to his new system of running and pressing and the fans are patient after many years of depression. The fanbase understand that success doesn't come overnight and long-term patience is required. Klopp actually still has a lot of players from old squads, who he still uses (Key players like Milner, Firmino, Lovren, Henderson, Coutinho are bought before him) so it's not like he's changed the whole squad (yet).
Klopp:
Klopp's squad sits on top of the previous transfer-strategy to buy up and coming talents, but he's finally putting his mark on the team after year 2 and 3.
He doesn't have a lot of primadonnas or overpaid stars to sort out when he enters the club (like us), but ships out Aspas, Borini, Benteke, etc as they're simply not good enough. One of the reasons why he doesn't have a lot of primadonnas to sort out is probably because Liverpool haven't bought a lot of players who's already been at the top and think very highly of themselves and are on huge wages. This is one of our current major problems, and why Solskjær starts off way worse than Kenny or Klopp. It's probably also a cause for concern for a future manager to take over Man Utd. It's a heavy process to ship out the deadwood at our club and start a new project - Klopp at least did not have this problem.
Klopp then gets nearly all of his transfers spot on. Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Alisson. They fit his system. There's actually no waste of money at all, except maybe for Karius / Klavan, who were also bought because of not being able to get in better players / unable to compete in the market.
Then he fixes the last hurdles, by signing Alisson and creates some healthy competition in the squad. He's now able to win matches with patience due to the defence getting fixed.
Our case - why we are different
In our case with Solskjær, he enters our club at a point full of problems to sort out, and 1 year wont be enough to lay a solid foundation for any manager. We're in early days of rebuilding a solid platform here. Klopp didn't have a lot of overpaid players to ship out before starting a new project.
Contrary to Liverpool, our transfer targets fits certain criterias of marketability. That's never really the case with Liverpool's signings - they rarely buy old players or keep old players. They buy players on the verge of breaking through like Mane, Firmino, Salah, Van Dijk - Not marketable players like Dybala.
Current players like this would be Maddison, Richarlison, Sancho, etc. They've bought players who haven't achieved anything yet, and are hungry, but not for attention / big wages. Contrary to Liverpool, we have a bigger wallet, which also attracts other types of players. Liverpool are a bit more fast to ship them out though. Benteke (42m ) and Balotelli (20m ) are gone fast. Either loaned out or sold fast.
Also we probably still have a bigger pulling power commercially and a lot of players of the current generation has grown up watching Man Utd's success of the 90's / 00's.
Patience needed to build a strong platform
It's taken ages to ship out deadwood currently at our club. If we're not patient as fans and understand how long time it takes to sort out a mess like this, we'll sack Solskjær after 1 year, and then we're back to finding a new manager, who might not want Solskjær's transfers. That could be a lot of money wasted in a transfer-window if we're just trying to plaster it over (again) with big commercial names, who are not hungry anymore. It's pretty evident that we don't have hungry players or players with enough quality. The players Klopp has signed are hard-working and also very technical players who can play and press fast.
We're still at the stage where we have a Frankenstein of a team from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho.
The least we could do is have a transfer-strategy that fits more than the here and now manager, while we clear out the bad weed from the garden that creates a bad culture. One day we might get a Klopp, but even Klopp had a reasonable platform to start new from.
We're truly in deep trouble, that we can't fix in 1 or maybe even 2 years. We need to step back and look at the big picture
Thoughts?