The big summer clear out & the funds raised.

giorno

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Agreed, which is why we should not let him go on loan.
imo your best bet is another loan to dortmund at similar conditions and hope he rebuilds his value over the next year. Then you might be able to sell him for a decent profit in 2025

Otherwise you're just setting money on fire

OR, sack ten Hag, and hope the new manager builds a good rapport with him and he becomes a useful player to you
 

giorno

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There are hundreds. I can’t remember them all.
Some examples include Diego Costa, Rooney, Rojo, Torres, Mascherano, Heinze, Van Nistelrooy.
Now which of those:
- Had a serious DA/SA case over their head that forced them out of football for a year and made them so toxic they couldn't ever play for their club again
- While not being established players with a long track record behind them
- Their parent club had no reason to play hard ball over his behaviour, getting rid was in their best interest
- Had a serious DA/SA case over their head that forced them out of football for a year and made them so toxic they couldn't ever play for their club again

Getafe, a club with 5 fans, 4 of which pay more attention to Madrid/Atletico, found themselves in the middle of a season long storm over playing him. Atlerico and Barcelona got linked in the press and immediately had to deny the rumors and distance themselves because that alone was bringing shitstorms down on their heads. There is no major club that can employ him in Europe, not without serious repercussions, and those smaller clubs that could - like Getafe - can't afford his wages.

But again, the key point here is: Manchester United can either let him walk, or pay him to do nothing, while still having a guy accused of DA/SA - with actual pictures and audio of the whole damn thing! - associated with them
 

Doracle

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What have Atletico said to deny their interest in Greenwood? All I can see are articles saying that they think United’s £50m valuation is too high.

Edit - personally I do think that £50m is more than we will be able to get from him but I do think the idea we will have to release him for free is even more fanciful.
 

Spaghetti Bolognese

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Now which of those:
- Had a serious DA/SA case over their head that forced them out of football for a year and made them so toxic they couldn't ever play for their club again
- While not being established players with a long track record behind them
- Their parent club had no reason to play hard ball over his behaviour, getting rid was in their best interest
- Had a serious DA/SA case over their head that forced them out of football for a year and made them so toxic they couldn't ever play for their club again

Getafe, a club with 5 fans, 4 of which pay more attention to Madrid/Atletico, found themselves in the middle of a season long storm over playing him. Atlerico and Barcelona got linked in the press and immediately had to deny the rumors and distance themselves because that alone was bringing shitstorms down on their heads. There is no major club that can employ him in Europe, not without serious repercussions, and those smaller clubs that could - like Getafe - can't afford his wages.

But again, the key point here is: Manchester United can either let him walk, or pay him to do nothing, while still having a guy accused of DA/SA - with actual pictures and audio of the whole damn thing! - associated with them
The repeated / highlighted part is getting a bit too specific, although Juventus gave you 100m for a player with a rape case hanging over his head, and the same club had no issue playing Benzema despite his off-field drama. Clubs (and fans) get over these things eventually.

Anyway, that’s getting into dangerous grounds and belongs on a different thread.
 

giorno

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The repeated / highlighted part is getting a bit too specific, although Juventus gave you 100m for a player with a rape case hanging over his head, and the same club had no issue playing Benzema despite his off-field drama. Clubs (and fans) get over these things eventually.

Anyway, that’s getting into dangerous grounds and belongs on a different thread.
Juventus paid that before the rape allegations came to light, for a player so huge, so famous, it barely registered in the grand scheme of things, and there was no video and audio evidence posted on social media.

Greenwood isn't a Cristiano Ronaldo. He's not a Benzema, he's not even a Foden. Which big club would risk their reputation, and the relationship with the fanbase, over Mason fecking Greenwood? What's he done to merit that kind of consideration? Again, two big clubs in Spain got linked with him...and their reaction was a furious scramble to publicly deny any interest in the player before they could get drawn into his toxicity

Which is also why United have a vested interest in being rid of him.

None of that is conducive to holding out for a transfer fee
 

ThierryHenry14

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You people do this after every down year, and it's always the same story. Why do you think other clubs would be interested in signing overpaid players coming off crap seasons?

Your team keeps devaluing players. The only guy you can realistically sell - and should sell - for a decent profit(30/40 if you are very lucky, more realistically somewhere in the 20-25 range) is McTominay

Then you have Casemiro and possibly Bruno, where you're hoping for Saudi offers.

Beyond that you don't have profitable assets, it's a bunch of guys you might sell for very small fees and free up the wages - except in several cases you'd then need to sign a replacement too
This is the CAF tradition. Rinse and repeat every summer.

Havertz was on a big money contract so I will give you that. Still, it's not like he was considered a problematic player Chelsea absolutely needed to get rid of like Sancho seems to be for United. If a good offer hadn't come, we would just have kept him ourselves and continued using him but everyone knows United have no intention of keeping Sancho.
The difference here is Arteta and Edu saw something in Havertz and decided he was the missing piece in his puzzle. Sancho situation is a bit different. I don't know which big clubs that can afford his salary has an opening in the left or right wing.
 
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Borussia Teeth

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I keep getting this.

Go check how much Havertz got sold for.

Go check how much Mount was sold for.
Havertz was bought by Arsenal who pay big wages. Mount was bought by us who pay even bigger wages. Dortmund do not pay big wages. Who out of the elite teams who pay big wages do you think will buy Sancho?
 

Jezpeza

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Think a lot of us are going to be disappointed.

We aren't going to get much for a lot of our players that we are willing to part with and even then they arent obliged to leave if the buying club can only offer smaller wages. Look at maguire to west ham last summer. Plus if we binned everyone we wouldn’t have a squad and would be scrabbling to sign players and it just wont be possible with PSR at the present.

Over the next few transfer windows I believe we will try to add to the better players we have to build a quality 1st 11 and expand the squad from there. We’ll see a lot of players we want sold immediately hanging round to the end of their contracts to make up the numbers. Martial, Varane and Casemiro going (thats one i think is likely as a name for the saudi league) this summer is over a million a week in wages saved so I think the clock will be reset that way. Worth looking who is out of contract next summer as well
 

romufc

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Havertz was bought by Arsenal who pay big wages. Mount was bought by us who pay even bigger wages. Dortmund do not pay big wages. Who out of the elite teams who pay big wages do you think will buy Sancho?
Not entirely true. Dortmund do pay high wages. If you are going to judge Arsenal and United from past scenarios of paying high wages, do the same for Dortmund.

Haller, Sule are both over 200k.
Reus on 230k
Axel Witsel was on big wages as well.
 

Borussia Teeth

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Fair enough. I always thought they were quite tight in that regard. We may get a sale after all but I doubt they pay us big money.
 

giorno

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Haller, Sule are both over 200k.
Reus on 230k
Axel Witsel was on big wages as well.
Uh? Where did you get those figures?

which are still way below the 300k of Sancho, but they seem wrong too
 

ThierryHenry14

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We aren't going to get much for a lot of our players that we are willing to part with and even then they arent obliged to leave if the buying club can only offer smaller wages. Look at maguire to west ham last summer. Plus if we binned everyone we wouldn’t have a squad and would be scrabbling to sign players and it just wont be possible with PSR at the present.
For whatever reason Man Utd is reluctant to compensate the difference in wages from the player's existing contract, so there is not much incentive for any players to leave other than more game time, which is not that attractive to fringe players who are over 30 years old.
 

Sandikan

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Ah the classic "big clear out" and numerous posters making wild posts reckoning we'll bring 150m in and spent 300m.
 

Jezpeza

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For whatever reason Man Utd is reluctant to compensate the difference in wages from the player's existing contract, so there is not much incentive for any players to leave other than more game time, which is not that attractive to fringe players who are over 30 years old.
The finances probably dont work too well if we subsidise wages. Theres no point selling the player for 25 million for example to spend 5 of it subsidising his wages at the new club unless we are absolutely sure theres a replacement that is better for 20 million out there. Otherwise we are just swapping one body for another and probably not for someone who improves the squad. Its why I think we will see us gradually allowing some of these poorer quality players to just run their contracts down whilst making up the numbers until we can clear the wages off the books. But its reliant on our future transfer business being so much better than it is
 

Jezpeza

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Ah the classic "big clear out" and numerous posters making wild posts reckoning we'll bring 150m in and spent 300m.
Easy mate. I got 95 million alone for Maguire, Mctominay, Eriksen and DVB on FIFA :)
 

Pronewbie

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Yet another typical Glazer summer. The manager situation shouldn't matter for obvious transfers INEOS wants. At least that's what the top clubs like Real Madrid do.
 

izak

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How come Maguire's contract isn't up, wasn't he signed in 2019?
 

ThierryHenry14

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The finances probably dont work too well if we subsidise wages. Theres no point selling the player for 25 million for example to spend 5 of it subsidising his wages at the new club unless we are absolutely sure theres a replacement that is better for 20 million out there. Otherwise we are just swapping one body for another and probably not for someone who improves the squad.
This I don't understand. If the head coach see a player (doesn't matter Casemiro, Maguire or Eriksen) no longer fit his plan, then just cut the loss and recoup whatever you can get, and spend the money on a replacement to improve the squad. I don't understand the obsession to break even or zero net spend when you try to improve/turn over the squad and bring in players that fit the head coach's tactic.
 

Jezpeza

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This I don't understand. If the head coach see a player (doesn't matter Casemiro, Maguire or Eriksen) no longer fit his plan, then just cut the loss and recoup whatever you can get, and spend the money on a replacement to improve the squad. I don't understand the obsession to break even or zero net spend when you try to improve/turn over the squad and bring in players that fit the head coach's tactic.
Because you need a squad. If you are subsidising a players wages who has left it brings the income value of the sale down. Its not about breaking even, its about the fact we dont have much to spend at present.

We need a starting centre back for sure this summer but we also need squad players. If you only got say £15m out of the Maguire sale because of wage subsidies then you have to go out and try and sign a bargain basket centre back who is unlikely to be any better. So its player turnover for the sake of it except the new one is on a long contract and cant be gotten rid of as a released player as things improve on the PSR front.

If we sell Lindelof and Maguire for example, for peanuts we have to go out and try to sign 2 centre backs for peanuts. We cant just buy 3 50 million pound centre halves and go ‘hey ho, we recouped 30 from Lindelof and Maguire’
 

Bastian

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Was it that long? That would mean we paid him 60 million over the 6 years as well as paying 80 for him?
Yes. And let me remind you that three years into his deal there was talk of him getting a renewed deal (when Bruno got his salary bump), despite having all this time on his contract. I don't know who averted that, but there are at least some thoughtful people at the club.
 

Jezpeza

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Yes. And let me remind you that three years into his deal there was talk of him getting a renewed deal (when Bruno got his salary bump), despite having all this time on his contract. I don't know who averted that, but there are at least some thoughtful people at the club.
Wow. I think we end up keeping him this summer as no one who would sign him in the EPL would be willing to pay him 190k a week. He’ll be a squad player until his deal expires next summer
 

Nytram Shakes

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My prediction:
- around £15m for Greenwood
- season long loan for Sancho around £5m
- £20m for Casemiro from Saudi
- £2m for Van de Beek
This is probably a fairly accurate assessment of the kind of money we can hope for coming in this summer.
 

Leftback99

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Budget of a £50m net spend this summer according to the Athletic. Not usually right but expect they won't be far off. Expectations for big signings should be low.
 

Von Mistelroum

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Players who are not good enough for a top club, but who I'm certain will still be here next season: McTominay, Rashford, Antony AWB and probably even Lindelof.

We can't really afford this huge clear out as we can't buy enough players to replace them, and we would struggle to find buyers for many of them.
 

Skills

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I'd say the best thing we can do this summer is to put the brakes on spending. Clear up the FFP mess we're in.

A bit like Chelsea during that transfer ban. There's still enough quality to finish top 5 - especially if our young players continue to develop.
 

elmo

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Players who are not good enough for a top club, but who I'm certain will still be here next season: McTominay, Rashford, Antony AWB and probably even Lindelof.

We can't really afford this huge clear out as we can't buy enough players to replace them, and we would struggle to find buyers for many of them.
Reality is we can’t afford a huge clear out because we can’t get rid of the players we don’t want.

Watch Sancho go somewhere on loan with no option for purchase again.
 

Von Mistelroum

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Reality is we can’t afford a huge clear out because we can’t get rid of the players we don’t want.

Watch Sancho go somewhere on loan with no option for purchase again.
Think that's the most likely scenario actually. Can't imagine anyone wanting to pay what he'll demand in wages, so we'll have to subsidise as usual.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Budget of a £50m net spend this summer according to the Athletic. Not usually right but expect they won't be far off. Expectations for big signings should be low.
I don't understand how the math works but it seems extremely low given the revenue and profit Utd has every year. Why Utd can't spend the money?