The constant media calls for us to replace Martial

Santoryo

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Style-wise I'd say he's a fairly typical, classic 'English' striker; in so far as he's strong, selfless, good in the air, holds the ball up well and brings people into play. That's what these pundits seem to be hinting at when they talk about a classic centre forward.

If he scored 20 a season, he's be pretty much the perfect old-school target man. It's all moot though, as he doesn't!
Not quite. Firmino is a midfielder asked to play as CF by Klopp. Firmino was trained and played most of his career as a midfielder which shows by his instincts to link up, drop deep and act as an enabler rather than a goal scorer.
 

RepardReece

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Tammy Abraham has a better goals to minutes ratio this season than Martial and hasn’t taken any penalties. And he definitely isn’t close to being good enough to be the main striker for a team challenging for the league. I’m not saying we should replace Martial by the way. He’s earned at least another season as first choice but this idea that we couldn’t even think about improving on him is complete lunacy. And 17 league goals is a bizarre benchmark.
By that thinking, Firmino shouldn't be Liverpool's main striker. Martial has added a lot more to our attack than just goals, he's provided 6 assists (double the amount to Tammy). I'd be surprised if he doesn't kick on this upcoming season and bag 20 goals in the premier league. He would've last season if Bruno had been there from the start. Martial fits into our system, I don't think Kane would. Haaland is the only player I could think of currently that may be able to replace him.

Not to mention have you even been watching him since the restart? He's finally hungry, smiling and putting in a good work rate. He begged to come on for last nights game and scored the winning goal. Comparing Tammy to Martial is ridiculous, may as well compare Firminos goals per minutes then as well. Firmino and Martial both add so much more to the squad than Tammy does.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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That’s a 33% difference. That’s not minor.
It is only 6 more goals though. Mane and Salah are around the same numbers as Martial.
We will see if strikers hit 30 again though. I think Kane and Aguero can do it if anyone.
Although not sure about Kane under Mourinho and Aguero gets injured all the time.
 

SinNombre

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He can score them. He can also miss them. But he’s obviously not as good at them as others are or he would be taking them.
Both Rashford and Pogba have missed a lot and they still take them (or at least until Bruno stopped them from doing so).

Martial obviously isn't as strong a personality as those 2, but based on what we have seen, he could have also gone 6/8 like Rashford did.
 

acnumber9

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Looking at the kind of tap-in/deflection goals Vardy got against demoralized teams towards the end then it is minor. Funny thing is Vardy won't be a factor in the golden boot race next season anyway.
I’ve checked and apparently a tap in still counts as a goal. You don’t even get points taken off you for it. You’re being silly if you’re pretending he doesn’t score vital goals for Leicester.
 

E-mal

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If you want to win the league 17 league goals from your top scorer usually isn’t enough. Lukaku got 16 in 17/18 and he wasn’t good enough.
17 non penalty goals is good enough, Vardy didn't get that and they won the epl, Salah didn't get more than 17 non penalty goals this season despite not missing games this season neither did CR7 in 06/07.
No player put up ridiculous numbers this year, you have to be aware of that also.
 

Acole9

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Post full of dumb explanations. If you think pundits who are jealous/dislike Man Utd are frustrated that any of our players don't reach top level then I have a bridge to sell you.
Another paranoid fan who thinks the whole world is against us. Every clubs fans think the media is against them and their players, they're not.
 

Eckers99

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Not quite. Firmino is a midfielder asked to play as CF by Klopp. Firmino was trained and played most of his career as a midfielder which shows by his instincts to link up, drop deep and act as an enabler rather than a goal scorer.
He played as a second striker and striker at times at Hoffenheim and has played striker/false 9 for years under Klopp. It's suited his game by and large and he scored fairly regularly at first. His goals have mainly dropped off over the past 12 months or so.
 

E-mal

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Tammy Abraham has a better goals to minutes ratio this season than Martial and hasn’t taken any penalties. And he definitely isn’t close to being good enough to be the main striker for a team challenging for the league. I’m not saying we should replace Martial by the way. He’s earned at least another season as first choice but this idea that we couldn’t even think about improving on him is complete lunacy. And 17 league goals is a bizarre benchmark.
Which striker are you gonna improve him with that will offer all that he does?
It's complete lunacy to suggest Kane or Halaand as far as am concerned.
 

acnumber9

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By that thinking, Firmino shouldn't be Liverpool's main striker. Martial has added a lot more to our attack than just goals, he's provided 6 assists (double the amount to Tammy). I'd be surprised if he doesn't kick on this upcoming season and bag 20 goals in the premier league. He would've last season if Bruno had been there from the start. Martial fits into our system, I don't think Kane would. Haaland is the only player I could think of currently that may be able to replace him.

Not to mention have you even been watching him since the restart? He's finally hungry, smiling and putting in a good work rate. He begged to come on for last nights game and scored the winning goal. Comparing Tammy to Martial is ridiculous, may as well compare Firminos goals per minutes then as well. Firmino and Martial both add so much more to the squad than Tammy does.
Other people were using his goals as the reason that he couldn’t be replaced. It’s fine if people want to talk about other things like all round game but Martial’s all round game wasn’t that great six months ago. He was in and out of games and making no impact on them. He’s now playing much better, which I’ve already said if you had paid attention, and deserves to keep his place. He still has improving to do though and that means continuing the form he’s shown since the restart for longer than two months.
 

acnumber9

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Which striker are you gonna improve him with that will offer all that he does?
It's complete lunacy to suggest Kane or Halaand as far as am concerned.
What is all that he offers? He’s a very good finisher with good feet. But barring his current good run he wasn’t influencing games anywhere near enough. There’s plenty of strikers that can do what Martial was doing prior to lockdown. Other strikers may not be as good at finishing but they’ll make up for it with superior movement. I don’t see this all round genius that others do.
 

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People always forget we are not a very creative team right?
Our forwards basically score worldies most times. Our full backs can't cross and we'd Pereira, Mata and fecking Lingard for creativity.

The more reason we need a Grealish this season so we don't ever have to rely on those guys.
 

Black Adder

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It's just an example of how media follows certain narrative and a false one to add just for clicks and views.

Martial is not only our best striker, but could argue he's our best player overall when in form, just abudance of ability and right mentality.

Let him prove everyone wrong, he has backing from his manager and supporters, that all that matters!
 

ghagua

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As of now, Martial has pulled up his socks and is performing. He is working harder and scoring goals. If there is someone better available (not as of now), then why not? No player should be untouchable if there is a better player who can improve the team. As of now, our front 3 is working out great as they can interchange. What we need is Bruno to keep creating, and sort out the players behind them to build a solid team capable of challenging on all fronts.
 

Classical Mechanic

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17 non penalty goals is good enough, Vardy didn't get that and they won the epl, Salah didn't get more than 17 non penalty goals this season despite not missing games this season neither did CR7 in 06/07.
No player put up ridiculous numbers this year, you have to be aware of that also.
Martial still needs to kick more on to become a tier one PL striker though. He has been flakey in the past but I think he can do it. He looks a lot happier these days. I also think Greenwood has 30 PL goals in a season in him.
 

Stacks

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1)They are still unsure about Martial's consistency and the skepticism is partly down to the fact he has one season under his belt of being a top scorer. They perhaps harbor doubts if this is the new norm where as in their minds Kane guarantees goals and has done for 6 years or thereabouts.
2)Some reminisce about the SAF days when we had 4 quality strikers and think we should recreate these options.
 

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It's a lazy narrative that people love to push. For example I had a chat with a Dortmund fan last week, he is adamant that we are weak at the striker department and Martial is not good enough, we supposedly lack a proper striker like Haaland. I know he never watched Manchester United with Martial as the number 9 actually. I responded that we will be back for Haaland, they just need to develop him properly.
I have heard Arsenal fans claim Martial is overrated.
Usual English bias + their desire for Kane to play for a big club and actually win some silverware.
probably this and they want an all England front 3 which will benefit the national team. (Sancho, Kane, Rashford, Greenword). its self serving desires
 

E-mal

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What is all that he offers? He’s a very good finisher with good feet. But barring his current good run he wasn’t influencing games anywhere near enough. There’s plenty of strikers that can do what Martial was doing prior to lockdown. Other strikers may not be as good at finishing but they’ll make up for it with superior movement. I don’t see this all round genius that others do.
Yeah, how about you name them? That are available for us to sign.
I wouldn't take any striker from any epl team ahead of him for variety of reasons.
Aguero is past his prime and won't get better with the injuries.
Kane is not better with the all round game.
The Southampton guy is alright but has had alot of injuries with just one good season and he is not better.
Neither Giroud or Abraham are better.
Aubamayeng is really not a striker these days and is not really good with back to goal.
Lewandoski is better but old and not available. Same applies to Suarez.
Lautaro is not as good.
So please do furnish us with examples.
 

Mick1

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But it’s a completely random bar to set. Lukaku scored one less two years ago and it wasn’t anywhere near enough. When did 17 goals become the benchmark for a striker that is ludicrous to think could be improved on?
Martial scores as much, and creates a lot more for those around. Chug Lukaku between Rashford and Greenwood, and we would not have the highest scoring trio in football
 

Smores

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1)They are still unsure about Martial's consistency and the skepticism is partly down to the fact he has one season under his belt of being a top scorer. They perhaps harbor doubts if this is the new norm where as in their minds Kane guarantees goals and has done for 6 years or thereabouts.
2)Some reminisce about the SAF days when we had 4 quality strikers and think we should recreate these options.
Under Sir Alex we were never afraid of improving in these areas. I think that's where Scholes is coming from.

If Martial follows up this season with another strong performance then he'll have proven himself. As it is he's had one successful season as the No 9 so it's certainly not outlandish that questions remain.
 

romufc

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What is all that he offers? He’s a very good finisher with good feet. But barring his current good run he wasn’t influencing games anywhere near enough. There’s plenty of strikers that can do what Martial was doing prior to lockdown. Other strikers may not be as good at finishing but they’ll make up for it with superior movement. I don’t see this all round genius that others do.
Ey? Martial is one of our players of the season.

Name me the plenty of strikers that do what Martial does?

Martial can hold up play, link up play, dribble, finish, make his own goals... what more do you want?
 

charlenefan

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It feels like every other day there’s a new “expert” in the media saying Martial isn’t good enough & needs replacing. Just in the last day we’ve seen Paul Scholes go on BT & say Harry Kane should be a bigger priority than Sancho because “United need a real number 9” and Paul Merson on sky sports saying that Martial isn’t reliable & we should replace with Kane. I’ve seen Savage, Murphy, Ince, and the like all come out with the same narrative.

What is going on here? Because these 2 aren’t isolated incidents. I see it all the time. Are these “pundits” even watching us play? Martial has been our most consistent forward this season, has 23 goals despite 2 months out & not taking pens. Yet it’s always him who the media call to be replaced. You really do have to question wether how nationality is playing a part here?

Don’t get me wrong Kane is a very good player, but he’s starting to develop a questionable injury record & I don’t think he would fit our forward as well as Martial does. He certainly shouldn’t be our “top priority” like Scholes thinks. Loved him as a player but he’s clueless at times as a pundit
Spurs fans should be more annoyed about this than a Man Utd fan
 

Smores

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Martial scores as much, and creates a lot more for those around. Chug Lukaku between Rashford and Greenwood, and we would not have the highest scoring trio in football
I'd agree but when we had Lukaku on form in 2017 season we scored more goals than this one. He also had more assists than Martial this season.

They actually set a new record together as a combination that season.
 

E-mal

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Martial still needs to kick more on to become a tier one PL striker though. He has been flakey in the past but I think he can do it. He looks a lot happier these days. I also think Greenwood has 30 PL goals in a season in him.
Well he hasn't played as a striker in the past, this is his first season. The role needs learning as it comes with experience but he has the ingredients.
Potentially he is better than all the strikers in the league at the moment while not that far behind them in terms of productivity now.

Greenwood will be an absolute Roll Royce of a player, can't wait for him to become our top 9, for now though he needs to play out wide while he adds to his game.
 

acnumber9

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Yeah, how about you name them? That are available for us to sign.
I wouldn't take any striker from any epl team ahead of him for variety of reasons.
Aguero is past his prime and won't get better with the injuries.
Kane is not better with the all round game.
The Southampton guy is alright but has had alot of injuries with just one good season and he is not better.
Neither Giroud or Abraham are better.
Aubamayeng is really not a striker these days and is not really good with back to goal.
Lewandoski is better but old and not available. Same applies to Suarez.
Lautaro is not as good.
So please do furnish us with examples.
I would say Kane is a better all round player. He’s a better passer for a start. Richarlison creates more chances per the stats. Jimenez too. What is it Martial so good at in your opinion?
 

acnumber9

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Ey? Martial is one of our players of the season.

Name me the plenty of strikers that do what Martial does?

Martial can hold up play, link up play, dribble, finish, make his own goals... what more do you want?
Martial has not been good at holding up play for the majority of this season. I would like a striker to get on the end of more chances to be honest. Because he can finish as well as anybody. He’s started to do it more lately. He needs to continue doing it. Jimenez has had just as good a season as Martial and there’s no way anyone could argue he couldn’t be replaced by Harry Kane.
 

acnumber9

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Martial scores as much, and creates a lot more for those around. Chug Lukaku between Rashford and Greenwood, and we would not have the highest scoring trio in football
That just isn’t true though. And I hated Lukaku as much as anyone but he created more chances for teammates than Martial has this season as a whole. People are allowing his very good form the last two months to colour their opinion of the season as a whole.
 

Bebestation

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That just isn’t true though. And I hated Lukaku as much as anyone but he created more chances for teammates than Martial has this season as a whole. People are allowing his very good form the last two months to colour their opinion of the season as a whole.
What are you talking about?

Theres a difference from Lukaku placing a side pass to other players and martials ability to drop deep and initiate quick creative passes and one twos with wider forwards like Rashford and Greenwood.

Greenwood's goal against West Ham where Martial played passes and one twos which were too fast for the defence to handle is the same stuff that Rashford and him have been producing game by game. Lukaku is no way near to me.

The only way I can agree with you is that maybe Martial should be playing deeper whilst Rashford and Greenwood play off of him in a 433 rather than a 4231 which can have Greenwood/Rashford too far, wide and deep than necessary being creative at times for Martial when it should be Martial deep making chances for Rashford & Greenwood as a supportive striker.
 

acnumber9

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What are you talking about?

Theres a difference from Lukaku placing a side pass to other players and martials ability to drop deep and initiate quick creative passes and one twos with wider forwards like Rashford and Greenwood.

Greenwood's goal against West Ham where Martial played passes and one twos which were too fast for the defence to handle is the same stuff that Rashford and him have been producing game by game. Lukaku is no way near to me.
I’m talking about football where there is more than one set way to score goals and win games. What are you talking about?
 

E-mal

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I would say Kane is a better all round player. He’s a better passer for a start. Richarlison creates more chances per the stats. Jimenez too. What is it Martial so good at in your opinion?
Why do you give stats that are factually not correct?
Martial created twice the number of big chances that Kane did (8vs4), has a better passing accuracy (81% vs 66%)
Has better assist records ( 6 vs 2)
Has better dribbling and far better pace
Although he is twice likely to be dispossessed as Kane.
Has 17 non penalty goals vs 16
Has better shot accuracy but similar conversion rate.
Has scored more goals inside the box than Kane
The above stats shows he is better team player than Kane, perhaps he should be more selfish.
Am not going to even entertain comparing Richarlison, who I think can do a step up but not for the price quoted. He is not as good as Martial, I am sorry. He played more games, has a better big chance creation but Martial is better in all the stats.
Get your facts before you post them.
 

marc1_007

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It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.

I think he improved enormously in the last 18 months or so as a #9. His movement and instincts are more inline with an all out centre forward now than they used to be, and that is backed by the number of goals he's scored this year playing consistently in that position, and also without penalties.
He was a left winger for three years of course he'll drift into wide areas, Mourinho did not see him as a number 9 so it had absolutely nothing to do with him not wanting to be a 9
 

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Any comparison between Martial & Kane is extremely one-sided.
 

acnumber9

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Why do you give stats that are factually not correct?
Martial created twice the number of big chances that Kane did (8vs4), has a better passing accuracy (81% vs 66%)
Has better assist records ( 6 vs 2)
Has better dribbling and far better pace
Although he is twice likely to be dispossessed as Kane.
Has 17 non penalty goals vs 16
Has better shot accuracy but similar conversion rate.
Has scored more goals inside the box than Kane
The above stats shows he is better team player than Kane, perhaps he should be more selfish.
Am not going to even entertain comparing Richarlison, who I think can do a step up but not for the price quoted. He is not as good as Martial, I am sorry. He played more games, has a better big chance creation but Martial is better in all the stats.
Get your facts before you post them.
Ok sweetheart, let me start by pointing out I didn’t reference any stats for Harry Kane. I said Richarlison creates more per the stats. It’s a simple fact that Richarlison created more chances than Martial last season. As did Jimenez. Get your facts right, son.
 

Fluctuation0161

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It feels like every other day there’s a new “expert” in the media saying Martial isn’t good enough & needs replacing. Just in the last day we’ve seen Paul Scholes go on BT & say Harry Kane should be a bigger priority than Sancho because “United need a real number 9” and Paul Merson on sky sports saying that Martial isn’t reliable & we should replace with Kane. I’ve seen Savage, Murphy, Ince, and the like all come out with the same narrative.

What is going on here? Because these 2 aren’t isolated incidents. I see it all the time. Are these “pundits” even watching us play? Martial has been our most consistent forward this season, has 23 goals despite 2 months out & not taking pens. Yet it’s always him who the media call to be replaced. You really do have to question wether how nationality is playing a part here?

Don’t get me wrong Kane is a very good player, but he’s starting to develop a questionable injury record & I don’t think he would fit our forward as well as Martial does. He certainly shouldn’t be our “top priority” like Scholes thinks. Loved him as a player but he’s clueless at times as a pundit
Same reason Lampard gets more praise than Ole. Xenophobia.