The constant media calls for us to replace Martial

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
1,803
Martial is the better player for our system. Can score as many as Kane and contributes a lot more assist. We are not looking for a "traditional" nr 9 to build around but a fluid front 3.
 

DarkLord

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
284
Sometimes people also forget how young Martial is, burst onto the scene at 19. Still only 24. He's 3 years younger than Kane. I think Kane is still the overall better striker as he's more consistent but I wouldn't trade Martial for him.
 

Siddharth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
698
Location
There are no strings on me ...
Scholes and Keane are has-beens. By giving such statements they try to stay relevant I guess. Both are clueless and couldn't hack it as managers, so now spewing out hackneyed punditry.
I loved them as players. Don't get me wrong.
 

Berbaclass

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
16,328
Location
Cooper Station
There are two things that are true.

1. We need a forward who can score 20+ league goals consistently. Martial hasnt done that yet.

2. Hes been inconsistent in his career so far.

That said, to say we should replace him now is just lazy. Hes finally on the right track, in a team that suits him, and he deserves the opportunity to show he can address the two points above. If his form from the last 6 months continues he should have no problem.

Even if he cant and we do ultimately need to replace him in a couple of years, Harry Kane is not the right player to do it with.
Liverpool ran away with the league and none of their players hit 20 league goals. Martial and Rashford both got 17 each which is absolutely fine, although we obviously want them to score as many as possible. 20 is just some arbitrary benchmark that doesn't really mean much.

Martial has shown he has the talent on multiple occasions. What he needs to do is show consistency through an entire season and he will be among the top strikers in Europe. I feel like he might have turned a corner so hopefully, he starts being more prolific as often as he is right now.

I agree that he has definitely shown that he deserves a chance to prove himself and I hope he gets it. Agree on Kane too.
 

Berbaclass

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
16,328
Location
Cooper Station
Martial is very under-rated by the press - and that has the Jose overhang to it. Jose never rated him as a no. 9 and moved him out wide. Martial never got a look in at that position during those 3 years. The press started believing that he is a winger because he enjoys going out wide and cutting in when he sees the space.

This is not an English bias (IMO) like others seem to suggest here. This 'proper No. 9' narrative became more prominent when Ole was going after Erling Haaland in the January window - which fueled further speculation that Ole does not trust Martial as a no.9.

Somehow the media thinks that we cannot have 5-6 quality forwards to fill 3 roles. Ole however has lived through the Fergie years and I am sure he wants to build a squad where an injury to Martial (like the 6-7 weeks in September/ October) doesn't derail an entire season. Whether he will be able to keep them happy with game time is another question. I think that's the reason why the Haaland transfer did not happen. On the other hand, Sancho may happen as he doesn't seem to be bothered about the Martial, Mason and Marcus combo keeping him out of the team.
Sancho is being bought to start. Mason will be the one that moves out and rotates.
 

Dante

Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
19,168
Location
My wit's end
Supports
saves.outer.elite

What does Scholes say wrong?


Why doesn't Scholes' anti-Sancho agenda prove his anti-English bias? How about his anti-Lingard agenda? He said nothing about Pereira.

By the way, see 8:20 to 8:35 in the second video.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
76,075
Location
india
I think English pundits tend to have an obsession with the number 9 in general. Football has changed, any/all of your forwards can be your main goalscoring threats. After the restart Rashford has been staying a bit more wide, but other wise he has as much a goalscoring role as anyone else. Same with Ronaldo and Madrid and so on. It's hardly as if these players would double their output as CF. And hence you have many teams where the wide forwards score more than the central one.

Obviously that's not to say that your 9 shouldn't be excellent. Just that it's the combined attack that matters.
 

bsCallout

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
724
He has better variety of finishes than Martial and better in the air. Aside that there's nothing he is better than him at.
I'd concede the heading. Not sure about better variety, I'd say that's Martials strong point. 1v1, Poachers goals(recent improvement), edge of the box screamers, clever flicks & chips.

I'd give it to Kane he's more aggressive in the 6 - 12 yard goals too.
 

IrishRedDevil

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
6,681
Location
N.Ireland
About 3/4 years ago Merson wanted us to sell Martial for Payet.
These clowns get paid for spouting nonsense.
 

Eire Red United

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
2,300
Location
Ireland
Bar Lewandowksi develops a sudden urge to come play for us or Ronaldo discovers a time machine, we really don’t need a number 9.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
5,475
Location
Manchester
All this stems from the prick that was our previous manager.
Seems like it doesn’t it. I don’t remember Martial being targeted much in his first season. Seems like the media latched on to Jose’s narrative about him being lazy & undedicated. How dare he want to be with his wife while she’s having problems in labour & not play LA Galaxy in a pointless friendly...
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
18,351
Location
The Mathews Bridge
It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.

I think he improved enormously in the last 18 months or so as a #9. His movement and instincts are more inline with an all out centre forward now than they used to be, and that is backed by the number of goals he's scored this year playing consistently in that position, and also without penalties.
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
7,163
Sometimes it takes the media time to catch up on what fans have seen, they will catch up soon and actually realise he's the real deal up front and worthy of our number 9.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
5,475
Location
Manchester
They don't have a clue. Martial will go down as our best striker of the Premier League era by the time he is done.
I rate Martial very very highly & I’d love it if you’re right but even I think you’re stretching it a bit here! We’ve had some incredible strikers over the last 30 years.
 

Eire Red United

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
2,300
Location
Ireland
The media and pundits just want to bask in the greatness of Kane, but know that England's best striker since Shearer, is likely to end with an even more sparse trophy cabinet than their previous diety.
Thus leaving a question mark over how great he can be considered.

Kane will likely finish his career with no big titles, and the nagging regret that Levy priced him out of a move, when it was still possible.
Not sure if you’ve heard of him but there was this Rooney fella who played here for a while, he wasn’t half bad.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,577
It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.
No it wasn't. Jose never played Martial as a No.9. He was never given the chance to show he can play that role.
 

suheilsworld

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
1,723
Location
Abu Dhabi, UAE
That money we paid for him looks peanuts now. He’ll always get slagged by media and our fans for his lazy demeanor the same way berba did. But this guy is class and will have a good next season. 23 goals with possibly 3 games left, looks like a good season
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
5,475
Location
Manchester
The media and pundits just want to bask in the greatness of Kane, but know that England's best striker since Shearer, is likely to end with an even more sparse trophy cabinet than their previous diety.
Thus leaving a question mark over how great he can be considered.

Kane will likely finish his career with no big titles, and the nagging regret that Levy priced him out of a move, when it was still possible.
There was a fella who was better than both, and ended up with a very healthy trophy haul. Goes by the name of Wayne Rooney..
 

GenZRed

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
395
He is a talented player and he should be our Number 9 next season, with Greenwood as backup. I also think Rashford makes a good numbe r9, but is also good on the wing.
 

Goku23

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
183
Was another thread needed for this?

Martial has been very good this season. Is Kane a better player? Yes.

Are Man Utd going to buy Kane? No.

Is there an agenda against Martial? No.
I wouldnt say Kane is better as a pure striker yes but Martials over all game is better than Kane
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
1,698
It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.

I think he improved enormously in the last 18 months or so as a #9. His movement and instincts are more inline with an all out centre forward now than they used to be, and that is backed by the number of goals he's scored this year playing consistently in that position, and also without penalties.
I'd wager you havnt watched us in the last 4 years?
Martial barely played as a 9 during the failed one's infamous era. When he played that role i the early period of his united career u der LVG he was successful until LVG recognised he was our best LW and CF and had shunt him outwide to replace Depay.
Even last seaso under Ole he didnt play as a 9, he was still on the LW. This is his first full season as a center forward and surprise surprise his best season yet. I reckon if he consistently play there, it will take an enormous task for any forward to finsih ahead of in the epl next season with penalty goals aside.
 

Neil_Buchanan

Cock'd
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
2,779
Location
Bolton
It makes absolutely zero sense. Martial is in great form and clicks well with the players around him, he is much younger and still improving, Kane would want mega wages, his injury record hasn’t been good enough, he would cost >£150 million compared to next summer Haaland at £60 million.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
18,351
Location
The Mathews Bridge
No it wasn't. Jose never played Martial as a No.9. He was never given the chance to show he can play that role.
Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.

Van Gaal also started him a centre forward in 15/16 (28 appearances) , then he moved him to the left (24 appearances) when he'd play Rooney up top (and because Memphis was garbage), and later in the season to accommodate Rashford. Most of Martial's goals that season were scored when he played on the left.

in the Jose/Ole season, he played on the left 28 times and scored 10 goals. He played up top 11 times and scored 2 goals.

There was genuine criticism - including from United fans - that he didn't operate as a centre forward when deployed there, his off the ball movement was poor, he didn't gamble at the near post, was often outside of the box when the ball came across goal. All of those things have definitely improved.

I'm not saying he was a shit centre forward back then. Just that he has gotten better at the basics of it, as you would expect a young player to do.
 

dalriada

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
244
Location
A Mancunian living in Surrey
Sometimes it takes the media time to catch up on what fans have seen, they will catch up soon and actually realise he's the real deal up front and worthy of our number 9.
I think there is an element of this, we tend to pore over our own players' performances, whereas the media are mostly looking at many teams and have a more detached view that takes time to change.

Having said that, I was concerned for a long while about Martial's apparent moodiness, and it's taken his performances this season to change my view - it's about the way he's managed.

As far as Scholes goes, I think he has a vision of a Van Nistelrooy - type striker banging the goals in, and Kane fits that profile for him. I think he tends to use his own time at the club too much as a reference point, so, while we all want to recreate that success, it can't be just about winding the clock back. Personally, I think Kane would be a distraction from the team Ole's building, would be almost a Mourinho-type decision to buy him.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,577
Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.
Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.

Van Gaal also started him a centre forward in 15/16 (28 appearances) , then he moved him to the left (24 appearances) when he'd play Rooney up top (and because Memphis was garbage), and later in the season to accommodate Rashford. Most of Martial's goals that season were scored when he played on the left.

in the Jose/Ole season, he played on the left 28 times and scored 10 goals. He played up top 11 times and scored 2 goals.

There was genuine criticism - including from United fans - that he didn't operate as a centre forward when deployed there, his off the ball movement was poor, he didn't gamble at the near post, was often outside of the box when the ball came across goal. All of those things have definitely improved.

I'm not saying he was a shit centre forward back then. Just that he has gotten better at the basics of it, as you would expect a young player to do.
I know transfermarkt says that but you also have to look at minutes he got.

16/17 - he played 7 times as CF, 3 times in the CL totalling 39 minutes. PL 190 minutes. That is not enough to prove yourself.

I know we were critical of him, which was more to do with his consistency as well. Until this season, he has not had a fair crack for the position.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
15,357
They don't have a clue. Martial will go down as our best striker of the Premier League era by the time he is done.
Any underrating of Martial by pundits is definitely being countered by the quite ludicrous overrating he receives on this forum.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
5,049
I think Kane's had a "destined" for United feel about him since he came into the picture, which is why he's linked to United in just about every transfer window.
It's probably been a long held fantasy for the likes of G Neville and Scholes, which like any fan, can cloud one's judgement. However, that ship has sailed, and I'll have Martial anyday over Kane now.

Also, there is definitely an English bias, and if Sancho does arrive, just watch Gary and Co wind up the "Greenwood should play in the centre" or "Greenwood is ahead of Martial" comments to the extreme.
Too late, Gary has already started that propaganda. He's into the agenda early enough so he can get into the next gear of that agenda once Sancho gets here.

Dude has already gone on record and claimed that Greenwood will displace Martial in the next 12 months and if Sancho gets here Martial is the one to lose his spot.

The same Martial who is arguably our POTY and most importantly, something I'm sure hasn't come across Neville Englanders mind is that Martial is more likely to be even better than he's been this season. For some reasons Martial talent and potential is completely disregarded by the likes of Neville and think he's such an average talent that he'll be easily displaced in a year time.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
3,844
I think English pundits tend to have an obsession with the number 9 in general. Football has changed, any/all of your forwards can be your main goalscoring threats. After the restart Rashford has been staying a bit more wide, but other wise he has as much a goalscoring role as anyone else. Same with Ronaldo and Madrid and so on. It's hardly as if these players would double their output as CF. And hence you have many teams where the wide forwards score more than the central one.

Obviously that's not to say that your 9 shouldn't be excellent. Just that it's the combined attack that matters.
True. When the season started Gary Neville and others were fixated on Rashford being the number 9 but as the season progressed it turned out Martial and Rashford were better swapping and Rashford was actually both a better scorer and facilitator as an inside forward. Their fixation with the traditional number 9 feels more like a dated infatuation than an actual plan
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

Gullible
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
18,351
Location
The Mathews Bridge
I know transfermarkt says that but you also have to look at minutes he got.

16/17 - he played 7 times as CF, 3 times in the CL totalling 39 minutes. PL 190 minutes. That is not enough to prove yourself.

I know we were critical of him, which was more to do with his consistency as well. Until this season, he has not had a fair crack for the position.
Like with a lot of United players, he went through a phase of fans believing that his best position was whichever position he didn't play in. If he had a poor game as a 9, it's because he's a left winger, and if he played poor out wide it was because he needs to be through the middle. Pundits were saying the same sort of thing as well, all whilst talking about the £50m tag, which didn't help. He was good at both, but still with a lot of room to improve.

That said, I think there is still clear improvement in the way he plays as a number 9. LvG gave him a lot of games there and whilst he did well, there was still a lot he needed to work on (understandably, he was very young). The way he moves and presses now is almost completely different. Right on the shoulder of the defender, making runs where he knows he might not get the ball, the sort of stuff that doesn't make the highlight reels but benefits the team and the attack. I don't think he was doing that as much or as effectively before. Perhaps it's no coincidence that these improvements are on display since working with Ole.

IMO the criticism was valid 3/4 years ago when he wasn't making runs or trying to disrupt the defence off the ball, but it definitely isn't now. It seems like pundits made their mind up about him in 15/16, and haven't budged.
 

Mcking

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
4,615
Location
Nigeria
I rate Martial very very highly & I’d love it if you’re right but even I think you’re stretching it a bit here! We’ve had some incredible strikers over the last 30 years.
He's scored many this season, and I'd expect him to score even more next season. If everything goes well too, I could see him scoring for quite a few years. We've had some top strikers, but not many quite had his all-round game though.
Any underrating of Martial by pundits is definitely being countered by the quite ludicrous overrating he receives on this forum.
It's a prediction.
 

sugar_kane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,756
It feels like every other day there’s a new “expert” in the media saying Martial isn’t good enough & needs replacing. Just in the last day we’ve seen Paul Scholes go on BT & say Harry Kane should be a bigger priority than Sancho because “United need a real number 9” and Paul Merson on sky sports saying that Martial isn’t reliable & we should replace with Kane. I’ve seen Savage, Murphy, Ince, and the like all come out with the same narrative.

What is going on here? Because these 2 aren’t isolated incidents. I see it all the time. Are these “pundits” even watching us play? Martial has been our most consistent forward this season, has 23 goals despite 2 months out & not taking pens. Yet it’s always him who the media call to be replaced. You really do have to question wether how nationality is playing a part here?

Don’t get me wrong Kane is a very good player, but he’s starting to develop a questionable injury record & I don’t think he would fit our forward as well as Martial does. He certainly shouldn’t be our “top priority” like Scholes thinks. Loved him as a player but he’s clueless at times as a pundit
Three thick bastards and a scouser, no surprises they're trying to tear down one of our best players.
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
1,456
Location
Twitter...searching #Sancho
Watching ESPN and hearing Craig Burley and Don Hutchinson its actually cringeworthy!! The agenda they have against Martial is actually disgusting.

Craig Burley is so bitter when talking about anything Man Utd related. He said in one of the videos that Utd would end up on the same points next season even if they signed Sancho. Absolutely shite pundit!
 

Verminator

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
6,678
Location
N3404 The Island of Manchester United
Not sure if you’ve heard of him but there was this Rooney fella who played here for a while, he wasn’t half bad.
There was a fella who was better than both, and ended up with a very healthy trophy haul. Goes by the name of Wayne Rooney..
Maybe I should have said No.9 as striker can be a broad term.
While he played there sometimes, Rooney wasn't an archetypal centre forward, and he doesn't consider himself one.
Hey! You got to look smart for a second though.
 

drmuji

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,023
Location
Lahore, Pakistan
Martial is the better player for our system. Can score as many as Kane and contributes a lot more assist. We are not looking for a "traditional" nr 9 to build around but a fluid front 3.
Exactly. And although we need a proper number 9 as plan B but Kane would not be very happy if we sign him and then bench him. We need a big tall Number 9 as back up or plan B. I guess we will do the business once Ighalo goes
 

Eire Red United

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
2,300
Location
Ireland
Maybe I should have said No.9 as striker can be a broad term.
While he played there sometimes, Rooney wasn't an archetypal centre forward, and he doesn't consider himself one.
Hey! You got to look smart for a second though.
Fair enough. Still ten times the number 9 Kane will ever be though when he did play there.

Anyway regardless of Rooney, you still have a point that Englands current big star will end up trophyless unless he heads to a big club.